View Full Version : Jetstar MEL
megan
24th Sep 2016, 01:18
Just an enquiry. Early this week the flight Darwin - Melbourne, scheduled to depart about 0200, ended up departing sans passengers and returned to Melbourne. A group of 95 Melbourne school children were then stuck in the terminal until departing on a flight at 1945. The family have had the same problem Darwin - Adelaide, aircraft departs minus passengers. Explanation available?
Lookleft
24th Sep 2016, 05:51
Jetstar fly with minimum cabin crew. If one goes UFD half way through a duty then the aircraft has to ferry empty back to Melbourne or wherever it is meant to end up. It could all be fixed by carrying an "operational spare" but that would cost money so it is better to inconvenience the travelling public.
galdian
24th Sep 2016, 07:04
Lookleft
Interesting - and not doubting what you're saying - in previous companies overseas there was a provision in the OM to continue but reduce pax numbers to the number of exits that could be used in an evacuation with reduced crew.
Makes sense.
Cheers.
No Idea Either
24th Sep 2016, 11:51
Not sure if this is correct Galdian, but I believe tha both jstar and virgin already operate on a dispo for reduced cabin crew to 4 from 5. No more room for reductions perhaps....
PoppaJo
24th Sep 2016, 12:04
Interesting - and not doubting what you're saying - in previous companies overseas there was a provision in the OM to continue but reduce pax numbers to the number of exits that could be used in an evacuation with reduced crew.
Seen this abroad too but CASA won't allow it here. Simply cannot operate unless crew numbers are adhered to CASA minimums which is 4 for your typical 180Y A320/737. Not uncommon to see longer domestics with an extra crew member also to potentially reduce the above risk which is quite costly to send it back empty/accomodate pax and possibly send another empty back to collect pax.
I thought they had a Darwin base?
megan
24th Sep 2016, 12:10
I thought they had a Darwin base?Not any longer
The kiwis can operate with a dispo that allows you to depart as long as you have 50 pax to each FA - which mean with a mid duty you could depart with 150 pax and 3 FAs(320/737). AU rules don't allow it - min 4.
compressor stall
24th Sep 2016, 21:37
Seen this abroad too but CASA won't allow it here. Simply cannot operate unless crew numbers are adhered to CASA minimums which is 4 for your typical 180Y A320/737.
I don't fly RPT but where is the regulation for this statement? CAO20.16.3 states 1:36 ratio of any number of pax.
Does it come from an instrument approval to operate 1:50 (which I assume they do)?
PoppaJo
24th Sep 2016, 23:37
1:36 is the standard unless the operator has been given approval from CASA for 1:50.
https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/F2012L01632/Explanatory%20Statement/Text
https://www.casa.gov.au/file/144816/download?token=9KLDNmUY
compressor stall
25th Sep 2016, 05:07
Yes, but you've stated JQ must depart with 4FAs. Why can't JQ carry say 108 pax (or 150) with 3 FA's?
engine out
25th Sep 2016, 05:32
Because CASA (I believe) require 1 FA for each main emergency exit door, and then allow able bodied passengers to open the over wing exits.
compressor stall
25th Sep 2016, 10:32
Why, under what regulation?
Do DJ or QF have same restriction?
QuarterInchSocket
25th Sep 2016, 10:39
CAO 20.11
CAR 235
Capt Fathom
25th Sep 2016, 10:43
Does it need to be a regulation?
CASA have probably had it placed in the Ops Manual.
engine out.
If my memory serves me correct your proposition is/was only applicable to wide body aircraft.
FWIW. Ansett could/would carry up to 12 staff/family passengers on B767 passenger aircraft operating as a freighter without any cabin crew.
compressor stall
25th Sep 2016, 12:40
Ok, but what was CASA's reasoning? I'm just curious if it's tied to the 1:50 approval or not.
engine out
25th Sep 2016, 17:07
For my current operator the requirement is under the Flight Admin Manual(a CASA approved document) that says for a passenger flight you require one cabin crew member for each primary position, which is each door on a 737. This is irrelevant of the instrument that allows 1:50, which deals more with able bodied passengers occupying over wing exits. I don't know if this applies at Jetstar. It could also be a contractual requirement. At my organisation there are also contractual issues with operating reduced cabin crew numbers that need Union approval, again not sure if it applies at Jetstar