Australia, New Zealand & the Pacific Airline and RPT Rumours & News in Australia, enZed and the Pacific

Jetstar MEL

Old 24th Sep 2016, 01:18
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Jetstar MEL

Just an enquiry. Early this week the flight Darwin - Melbourne, scheduled to depart about 0200, ended up departing sans passengers and returned to Melbourne. A group of 95 Melbourne school children were then stuck in the terminal until departing on a flight at 1945. The family have had the same problem Darwin - Adelaide, aircraft departs minus passengers. Explanation available?
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Old 24th Sep 2016, 05:51
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Jetstar fly with minimum cabin crew. If one goes UFD half way through a duty then the aircraft has to ferry empty back to Melbourne or wherever it is meant to end up. It could all be fixed by carrying an "operational spare" but that would cost money so it is better to inconvenience the travelling public.
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Old 24th Sep 2016, 07:04
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Lookleft

Interesting - and not doubting what you're saying - in previous companies overseas there was a provision in the OM to continue but reduce pax numbers to the number of exits that could be used in an evacuation with reduced crew.

Makes sense.

Cheers.
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Old 24th Sep 2016, 11:51
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Not sure if this is correct Galdian, but I believe tha both jstar and virgin already operate on a dispo for reduced cabin crew to 4 from 5. No more room for reductions perhaps....

Last edited by No Idea Either; 24th Sep 2016 at 11:52. Reason: Misspelt Galdian....had to correct that of course.
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Old 24th Sep 2016, 12:04
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Interesting - and not doubting what you're saying - in previous companies overseas there was a provision in the OM to continue but reduce pax numbers to the number of exits that could be used in an evacuation with reduced crew.
Seen this abroad too but CASA won't allow it here. Simply cannot operate unless crew numbers are adhered to CASA minimums which is 4 for your typical 180Y A320/737. Not uncommon to see longer domestics with an extra crew member also to potentially reduce the above risk which is quite costly to send it back empty/accomodate pax and possibly send another empty back to collect pax.

I thought they had a Darwin base?
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Old 24th Sep 2016, 12:10
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I thought they had a Darwin base?
Not any longer
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Old 24th Sep 2016, 20:15
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The kiwis can operate with a dispo that allows you to depart as long as you have 50 pax to each FA - which mean with a mid duty you could depart with 150 pax and 3 FAs(320/737). AU rules don't allow it - min 4.
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Old 24th Sep 2016, 21:37
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Originally Posted by PoppaJo View Post
Seen this abroad too but CASA won't allow it here. Simply cannot operate unless crew numbers are adhered to CASA minimums which is 4 for your typical 180Y A320/737.
I don't fly RPT but where is the regulation for this statement? CAO20.16.3 states 1:36 ratio of any number of pax.

Does it come from an instrument approval to operate 1:50 (which I assume they do)?
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Old 24th Sep 2016, 23:37
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1:36 is the standard unless the operator has been given approval from CASA for 1:50.

https://www.legislation.gov.au/Detai...Statement/Text

https://www.casa.gov.au/file/144816/...token=9KLDNmUY
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Old 25th Sep 2016, 05:07
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Yes, but you've stated JQ must depart with 4FAs. Why can't JQ carry say 108 pax (or 150) with 3 FA's?
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Old 25th Sep 2016, 05:32
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Because CASA (I believe) require 1 FA for each main emergency exit door, and then allow able bodied passengers to open the over wing exits.
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Old 25th Sep 2016, 10:32
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Why, under what regulation?

Do DJ or QF have same restriction?
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Old 25th Sep 2016, 10:39
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CAO 20.11
CAR 235

Last edited by QuarterInchSocket; 27th Sep 2016 at 00:19. Reason: Legal references already/previously cited
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Old 25th Sep 2016, 10:43
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Does it need to be a regulation?

CASA have probably had it placed in the Ops Manual.
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Old 25th Sep 2016, 11:46
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engine out.
If my memory serves me correct your proposition is/was only applicable to wide body aircraft.

FWIW. Ansett could/would carry up to 12 staff/family passengers on B767 passenger aircraft operating as a freighter without any cabin crew.
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Old 25th Sep 2016, 12:40
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Ok, but what was CASA's reasoning? I'm just curious if it's tied to the 1:50 approval or not.
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Old 25th Sep 2016, 17:07
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For my current operator the requirement is under the Flight Admin Manual(a CASA approved document) that says for a passenger flight you require one cabin crew member for each primary position, which is each door on a 737. This is irrelevant of the instrument that allows 1:50, which deals more with able bodied passengers occupying over wing exits. I don't know if this applies at Jetstar. It could also be a contractual requirement. At my organisation there are also contractual issues with operating reduced cabin crew numbers that need Union approval, again not sure if it applies at Jetstar
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