The strange reasons why United pilots declare emergencies

[JammedStab]

Occurrence No.: A16A0077 Occurrence Type: INCIDENT REPORTABLE
Class: CLASS 5 Reportable Type: SMOKE OR FIRE (iii)
Date: 2016-08-16 Time: 02:52:00 UTC
Region of Responsibility:
ATLANTIC
Location: 580.00 Nautical miles E From CYQX - GANDER INTL - GANDER
Country: CANADA Ocean: NORTH ATLANTIC OCEAN
Ground Injuries: Fatal: 0 Minor: 0
Serious: 0 Unknown: 0
---------- Aircraft 1 ---------
Registration: N781UA Operator: UNITED AIRLINES
Manufacturer: BOEING Operator Type: COMMERCIAL
Model: 777-200 CARS Sub Part: 701 - FOREIGN
Injuries: Fatal: 0 Minor: 0
Serious: 0 None: 246
Unknown: 0
Occurrence Summary:
N781UA, a Boeing 777-200 aircraft operated by United Airlines, was conducting flight UAL999 from Newark/Liberty Intl, NJ (KEWR) to Brussels, Belgium (EBBR). When in cruise flight at FL380 and approximately 580 nautical miles East of Gander Intl, NL (CYQX), a flight attendant reported fumes to the flight crew. It was determined that the odour was contained to the first class inboard lavatory. The flight crew decided to don their oxygen masks and requested a diversion to CYQX. Due to traffic, ATC was unable to provide a clearance. The crew elected to declare an emergency and deviated without a clearance in accordance with in-flight contingency procedures. Once level at FL300, the flight received a clearance for CYQX where it landed without further incident or reported injuries.
Maintenance personnel found no evidence of smoke or heat, and determined that the trash container was the source of the odour.



Occurrence No.: A16A0081 Occurrence Type: INCIDENT REPORTABLE
Class: CLASS 5 Reportable Type: EMERGENCY/PRIORITY (xi)
Date: 2016-08-19 Time: 01:32:00 UTC
Region of Responsibility:
ATLANTIC
Location: 370.00 Nautical miles E From CYQX - GANDER INTL - GANDER
Country: CANADA Ocean: NORTH ATLANTIC OCEAN
Ground Injuries: Fatal: 0 Minor: 0
Serious: 0 Unknown: 0
---------- Aircraft 1 ---------
Registration: N673UA Operator: UNITED AIRLINES
Manufacturer: BOEING Operator Type: COMMERCIAL
Model: 767-300 CARS Sub Part: 701 - FOREIGN
Injuries: Fatal: 0 Minor: 0
Serious: 0 None: 190
Unknown: 0
Occurrence Summary:
N673UA, a Boeing 767-322 aircraft operated by United Airlines, was conducting flight UAL30 from Newark/Liberty Intl, NJ (KEWR) to Munich/Franz Josef Strauss Intl, Germany (EDDM). During cruise flight in the vicinity of 46N050W, the crew selected the flight management computer to provide a course offset to the right; however, the aircraft began to deviate to the left. The crew was unable to correct using the flight management computer, and selecting the backup routing also introduced an error. The crew requested a clearance to return to KEWR due to navigational problems but due to traffic, ATC was unable to provide the request. The crew elected to declare an emergency and deviated without a clearance in accordance with in-flight contingency procedures. Once level at FL300, the flight received a clearance to return to KEWR where a landing was made without further incident.
The operator’s maintenance found that the right High Frequency Transceiver had failed, and proceeded to replace it. All subsequent checks were accomplished and no further discrepancies were noted.

[underfire]

Wow, and interesting. That is like the most PAX Gander has ever had!
What happened to Bangor, avoiding FAA scutiny?

[Jet Jockey A4]

@ underfire...

That is like the most PAX Gander has ever had!
What happened to Bangor, avoiding FAA scutiny?

You forgot Gander's role on September 11th 2001... Over 6500 passengers were stranded there on that one day.

[stilton]

Don't see what's 'strange' about their declaration (s)


Better to declare an emergency in those situations to provide maximum assistance, flexibility and co-operation from ATC


Perfectly legitimate and probably called for by SOP.

[Airgus]

First of all Safety first... well done for the crew that as a team worked together in a profesional way. The cabin crew communicated straight away to the flight deck, who reacted and acted according to their instincts and situational awareness (sensing abnormal burning smell, running out of options if the situation would have worsen). Pure CRM.

I do not get the title of this topic... Sounds a bit anti CRM or macho-tic...... the words STRANGE REASONS under my first impression sound degrading to the professional crew that did a safe job. When you get a fire... it is already too late... better to buy as much time as possible.

Second of all... I always like to teach my students using the example about the crew of the UPS Flight 1307 that landed at Philly seconds to be destroyed by an inflight cargo fire.
If you read about it, it all started with a strange strong odor and ended up with a destroyed plane and luckily no fatalities.

http://bashny.net/uploads/images/00/00/13/2013/05/07/87a5060e8c.jpg

The crew reacted to their senses, they already started working on their plan well before the alarm-indication warned them of a serious problem (cargo fire).
It all started with the First Officer sensing a strange strong odor... the Captain and the FE took this so serious that they did not dismiss it, they worked on it as a team.

If they wouldn't have done it... today the report would have included 3 fatalities on board plus many on ground...

http://www.ntsb.gov/news/events/Pages/Inflight_Cargo_Fire_United_Parcel_Service_Company_Flight_130 7_McDonnell_Douglas_DC-8-71F_N748UP_Philadelphia_Pennsylvania.aspx

Whatever sounds strange while you are in your sofa with your laptop, it makes perfect sense if you are seated in the flightdeck over the Atlantic....

[vapilot2004]

I too fail to see the problem here, other than perhaps a slight left hand way of getting back to EWR (a maintenance hub) for the NAV issue once ATC claimed they were unable.

[Huck]

Brings to mind Swissair 111.....

[Johnny F@rt Pants]

With the possibility of a fire developing whilst well out over the North Atlantic, would you not have declared an emergency given that ATC weren't giving you what you wanted/needed. Every second counts, I suggest that this is a very good reason to declare an emergency, which is a requirement if you are going to perform a contingency manoeuvre.

A navigation issue again over the Atlantic, sounds to me like a good decision, and again if ATC can't give you what you need you do what you have to do.

At the end of the day these 2 sets of crew made effective timely decisions, and then acted on them without further delay. Too many times in the past we have read about crews pressing on or dilly dallying and the situation ending up unpleasantly.

[JammedStab]

Admittedly, the trash bin odour pilots were in a difficult situation if they have a report of fumes from the first class lav and their procedures are that they are not allowed to leave the flight deck for security reasons. Not all the FA's are the sharpest of people. I worked at an airline that had smoke coming from the galley and the reports enough to cause an emergency evacuation. Turns out that there were muffins burning in the oven.

[Hotel Tango]

JammedStab, if you are the type who is going to plod on regardless, please do me a favour and let me know who you fly for so that I can avoid using your airline in case it's you sitting at the pointy end!

[Smoketrails]

Still don't get your point for starting this thread JammedStab!?

[Uplinker]

Please let me know which airline you fly for Jammed?

If you think it is strange to divert from the middle of the Atlantic with a possible fire on board, I don't want to fly with you !

[Herod]

Declare an emergency and get the help/discretion you need. You can always downgrade/cancel it later if things get better.

[peekay4]

Slightly off topic but why would a failed HF transceiver caused the left/right deviation problem?

[Zombywoof]

And why didn't someone pull out the trashcan, confirm it was the source of the odor and determine there was no fire, and advise the captain of same?

[fleigle]

Zombywoof,
United employees have been shafted repeatedly by management in the past and possibly no longer feel like "going the extra mile".
f

[Offchocks]

Fleigle

I don't think it is "going the extra mile" by checking if there really is a fire, it is called self preservation!

[abgd]

Cost of loss of a hull and 250 passengers: easily 500 million
Cost of an emergency diversion: perhaps 50,000?

So in purely financial terms you should be able to justify several thousand false alarms for each true alarm.

[.Scott]

I don't think it is "going the extra mile" by checking if there really is a fire, it is called self preservation!Certainly an in-flight investigation is called for, but I wouldn't call it "checking if there really is a fire". It is possible that such an investigation might conclude with sufficient certainty that there was, in fact, no fire. But even if that conclusion was reached, by the time it was reached you should be well on your way to the alternate landing site.

The central purpose of the in-flight investigation would be to find the fire and discover what is needed to put it out.

BTW: I also vote that declaring an emergency in these situations is appropriate. I don't doubt that the navigational issue could have been diagnosed in flight, but how much "experimentation" do you tolerate before declaring the issue a serious matter for the ground personnel to resolve? I would hope with an ATC flight, not a lot.

[Fortissimo]

N673UA, a Boeing 767-322 aircraft operated by United Airlines, was conducting flight UAL30 from Newark/Liberty Intl, NJ (KEWR) to Munich/Franz Josef Strauss Intl, Germany (EDDM). During cruise flight in the vicinity of 46N050W, the crew selected the flight management computer to provide a course offset to the right; however, the aircraft began to deviate to the left. The crew was unable to correct using the flight management computer, and selecting the backup routing also introduced an error. The crew requested a clearance to return to KEWR due to navigational problems but due to traffic, ATC was unable to provide the request. The crew elected to declare an emergency and deviated without a clearance in accordance with in-flight contingency procedures. Once level at FL300, the flight received a clearance to return to KEWR where a landing was made without further incident.
The operator’s maintenance found that the right High Frequency Transceiver had failed, and proceeded to replace it. All subsequent checks were accomplished and no further discrepancies were noted.

Not sure what relevance the right HF Transceiver has for an FMC problem - can someone enlighten me?

I am aware that some other B767 operators have problems with their FMC dumping data when the crew try to enter the SLOP at the start of the Oceanic leg, including the alternate FPLN. The manufacturer's advice was to leave 5 minutes between starting the leg and entering the offset, but that doesn't work either. The pilot I spoke to said crews were using heading hold while they manually entered the remainder of their route into the system. Painful, but less so than a MAYDAY and diversion?

[g-code]

Not sure what relevance the right HF Transceiver has for an FMC problem - can someone enlighten me?

I am aware that some other B767 operators have problems with their FMC dumping data when the crew try to enter the SLOP at the start of the Oceanic leg, including the alternate FPLN. The manufacturer's advice was to leave 5 minutes between starting the leg and entering the offset, but that doesn't work either. The pilot I spoke to said crews were using heading hold while they manually entered the remainder of their route into the system. Painful, but less so than a MAYDAY and diversion?

There was a lot more going on with that airplane than stated here.

[sabbasolo]

Declaring an emergency seems to be influenced a lot by corp culture (and other cultural influences). From an unscientific sample using flightradar24, AF declares a lot, American airlines a moderate amount (considering their high traffic) AA the most, followed by UA and DL. The sample is also skewed by flightradar24 coverage areas...

Some airlines will declare an emergency, with trucks rolled etc, but never squawk 7700 - LY for example on several recent occasions at BGN.

It would be interesting for someone with more statistical knowledge than I to analyze the data from flightradar24 or another source. To be fair, the one time I declared I was already in the Class C, and I didn't change my squawk either.

[stilton]

AA complains about turbulence more than any other airline.


Just as an aside..

[Sailvi767]

AA complains about turbulence more than any other airline.


Just as an aside..

One thing that always amuses me is the number of times I hear a airline report severe turbulance over the Atlantic. I think a lot of pilots need to review the definition of severe turbulance. In addition anytime you state you have encountered severe turbulance a logbook entry is required and a aircraft inspection which can be quite lengthy is required. This step seems to be skipped quite often.

[Airbubba]

In addition anytime you state you have encountered severe turbulance a logbook entry is required and a aircraft inspection which can be quite lengthy is required. This step seems to be skipped quite often.

Maybe they skip reporting turbulance because they haven't been to collage and don't know how to spell it. ;)

[Super VC-10]

Maybe they skip reporting turbulance because they haven't been to collage and don't know how to spell it

Would probably do better going to college.

[Airbubba]

Would probably do better going to college.

As we say here on PPRuNe, your right. :ok:

[413X3]

I overheard a United pilot at YYZ demand a new squawk code because the one the computer gave him was 6066, you know, three 6's means the Devil! That was strange!

[Juan Tugoh]

As we say here on PPRuNe, your right. :ok:

Only posted in a sense of mischief and due to the run of the thread, but.......



As we say here on PPRuNe, you're (as in you are) right. :ok

😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀

[JammedStab]

I overheard a United pilot at YYZ demand a new squawk code because the one the computer gave him was 6066, you know, three 6's means the Devil! That was strange!
Maybe he would have had to declare an emergency if he had that code. But seriously folks, the reasons for the emergencies were strange or shall I say unusual. That does not necessarily mean that the decisions to actually declare the emergency(perhaps I could have worded the title better to avoid misinterpretation by those likely to do so).

And for those in a fake tizzy, demanding to know where I work so they won't fly on that airline(as if it is really the case as I know you will buy the cheapest ticket), would you find it surprising if I told you UA.:):)

[INNflight]

Declaring an emergency is a way to get from ATC what you want / need. It also gets you attention. They did the right thing, not getting cooperation from ATC for whatever reasons. If you don't get it, demand it.

Our airline preaches to declare emergency if we think we need it. If it turns out we don't, you can always downgrade it to a pan-pan.
Better safe than sorry - declaring an emergency is mostly paper work. And who doesn't love that, right?

[GearDown&Locked]

I overheard a United pilot at YYZ demand a new squawk code because the one the computer gave him was 6066, you know, three 6's means the Devil! That was strange!

squawk 1313