Delta One LHR-JFK return to LHR?

[Propellerhead]

Delta 767 just gone over my house sounding like a Wellington bomber. Currently 4000ft circling to the west of LHR. Delta one LHR-JFK. Looks like now on approach to reland at lhr.

[overfly]

confirmed - you must be a near-neighbour!

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

I agree that it sounded weird. It's about to land (10.50) after a Cosy Coaches excursion of the countryside!

[Propellerhead]

29mins airborne. Punchy. Overweight landing? Couldn't work out where he held. Not Ock. Possibly Woodley?

[DaveReidUK]

Orbited just south of Wokingham.

[DaveReidUK]

I agree that it sounded weird.

Reportedly landed with the RAT deployed, which would explain the buzz.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Propellerhead. I suspect it was held on radar, often the best way to deal with the situation.

Excuse my ignorance, Dave, but what is the RAT please? Thanks.

[wiggy]

Ram Air Turbine.......

[tarkay01]

RAT

Small furry animal with a long hairless tail.

Or, Ram Air Turbine. Deployed when the main electrical power fails.

[malcolm380]

Ram Air Turbine. small fan which deploys into the airflow to provide electrical power generation.

[rog747]

reported bird strike? returned to LHR

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Thanks folks..

[tdracer]

Ram Air Turbine. small fan which deploys into the airflow to provide electrical power generation. Not quite - the 767 RAT drives a hydraulic pump, not a generator.
There is a hydraulic driven generator that can be used to generate electrical power if needed., however the RAT is primarily intended to provide hydraulics to the flight control surfaces in the event of a dual engine power loss.
BTW, the RAT is known to be extremely noisy when deployed.

[pattern_is_full]

What would be the scenarios for a RAT deployment, while still apparently having sufficient engine power to hold and then return?

A "just in case" deployment due to ratty ( ;) ) engine indications? Or might an accidental RAT deployment itself have been the reason for aborting the flight?

[pax britanica]

I missed seeing this but Mrs PB -ex BA Ops and an airport child said she heard an extremely unusual noise and an aircraft that seemed to be going no where, on LHR easterlies things just fly past Camberley.

I am sure ATC had it all under control but orbiting a widebody at 4000 ft over a fairly populated area seems a slightly odd choice-a few miles west and its very open all the way to Basingstoke. Also on easterlies quite lot of Inbounds off Ockham pass between Camberley and Bracknell at 4-6000 feet .

Ever had to hold someone this close in to LHR Mr HD?

[Airbubba]

What would be the scenarios for a RAT deployment, while still apparently having sufficient engine power to hold and then return?

A "just in case" deployment due to ratty ( ;) ) engine indications? Or might an accidental RAT deployment itself have been the reason for aborting the flight?

Don't know about this LHR case but years ago one of the Delta Professionals managed to shut off both engines of a 767 while flying from Los Angeles to Cincinnati. The RAT automatically deploys in this situation. The FO helped him get the engines relit and after getting salt spray on the plane from a low pass over the Pacific, the PIC decided to continue on to CVG.

Once deployed, the RAT stays out until maintenance can re-stow it on the ground. So, they had the pinwheel buzz going all the way.

Needless to say, the feds weren't happy and didn't wait for the mailman to deliver the captain's license revocation, it was delivered in person:

The agency delivered the revocation to the pilot, John Henry Gilfoil of Los Altos, Calif. An agency spokeman, Fred Farrar, called the revocation of Captain Gilfoil's airline transport pilot certificate a ''drastic and unusual action.''

Captain Gilfoil was flying a Boeing 767 on Delta's Flight 810 from Los Angeles to Cincinnati on June 30 when the power failed at about 1,700 feet. None of the 197 passengers or eight crew members were injured in that plunge that lasted about a minute before the crew was able to restart the engines.

The aviation agency said Captain Gilfoil had violated Delta and F.A.A. regulations and ''operated Flight 810 in a reckless manner so as to endanger life and property.''

Delta Pilot Loses License Over Plane's Power Loss - NYTimes.com (http://www.nytimes.com/1987/08/09/us/delta-pilot-loses-license-over-plane-s-power-loss.html)

Boeing was not amused either but later relocated some switches to make the knobology less challenging.

A Boeing Co. official said Thursday that there is no ready explanation of how a veteran airline captain activated the wrong controls--pulling two round fuel cutoff knobs instead of pushing a square button two inches away--and caused a Delta Boeing 767 to plunge within 600 feet of the Pacific after taking off from Los Angeles International Airport.

The pilot, according to federal investigators, reacted to an amber warning light telling him there was a problem with the engines' fuel flow. The Boeing official said the original fuel problem was not critical and could have easily been corrected by pulling back the throttle and pushing the square button.

"One's a square button and the others are round knobs," said Elizabeth Reese, the spokeswoman for Seattle-based Boeing. "How could he make such a mistake? That's a good question."

Boeing Can't Explain How Delta Pilot Made Error - latimes (http://articles.latimes.com/1987-07-03/local/me-1083_1_delta-pilot)

I'm not aware of an accidental B-767 RAT deployment airborne but I've sure heard of it on preflight. More than once, someone is reaching for the battery switch on the overhead panel and somehow pushes the guarded RAT switch instead. The RAT deploy mechanism is powered by the hot battery bus so the RAT will pop out even if the battery switch is off. Not a great way to impress your coworker who may be doing the walkaround while you are inside setting up the cockpit. :eek:

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

<<Ever had to hold someone this close in to LHR Mr HD?>>

Yes. It's no trouble whatsoever.

[JW411]

I can well remember going on an air test in a DC-10 which involved deploying the RAT. It made a hell of a noise and created quite a bit of vibration. I seem to remember that the RAT was cleared for M.82 but 210 knots IAS was enough for me!

[OldLurker]

Aviation Herald:
Incident: Delta B763 at London on Sep 13th 2016, bird strike (http://www.avherald.com/h?article=49df0440)

[DaveReidUK]

Delta 767 just gone over my house sounding like a Wellington bomber.

I'm insanely jealous of anyone who has experienced the sound of an airborne Wellington. :O

[tdracer]

Reportedly landed with the RAT deployed, which would explain the buzz.
Is that from a reliable source? I'm hard pressed to explain why they'd have the RAT deployed after an issue with a single engine. I'm wondering if the damaged engine was making strange noises that someone mistook for a RAT?

[Hotel Tango]

I have seen a pretty good photo taken by a friend. He mentioned the noise and, from these pages, told him about the RAT being deployed. However, close inspection of the photo does not show any indication of the RAT having been deployed.

[Airbubba]

I'm wondering if the unusually loud noise reported was the sound of a damaged motor windmilling after ingesting birds?

The RAT is on the right side of the plane aft of the wing and it should be pretty obvious in the photos. I've never seen one deployed in real life and I try to keep it that way. ;)

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Wonder what made the noise then? I was indoors and heard a loud noise similar to a radial engined warbird. When I looked out, the 767 had just passed over my house and there were no other aircraft around. I have never heard that noise from a jet airliner before.

[Mad As A Mad Thing]

Like a Texan/Harvard is exactly how I would describe the sound I heard (from the ground) from an A320 following a bird strike on take off a few years ago.

[pax britanica]

HD

Thanks for the response-i guess one doesn't notice these things from the ground without the noise alerting you to the fact that something slightly unusual is going on. i found it interesting that my wife who has a sort of interest in aircraft growing up in Cranford working for BA etc said her immediate reaction to the noise was thats not right and people who have an ear tuned from years of exposure to what aircraft sound like at different times immediately notices something out of the ordinary.

By the way going back to the orbiting process and locationwhose control would that have been under , final director or intermediate

Tks
PB

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

pb.. OK. I can't answer your question as it would be decided by the controllers involved. After departure it should have contacted the intermediate south director, who probably kept it during the "holding". When it commenced approach it would have been transferred to the final director. It was a bit complex as on easterlies south director looks after inbounds and west bound departures too which means the airspace SW of Heathrow can get busy.

[Hants Eaglet]

https://youtu.be/qGImnv3R-0w (http://https://youtu.be/qGImnv3R-0w)

Video here, taken from Sandhurst, aircraft at 4000ft.

[Hants Eaglet]

As you were, finger trouble, video should be here:

http://https://youtu.be/Ifjs9V7e6AQ

Sorry.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Try another finger!

[jehrler]

Hants Eaglet forgot the colon in his first video link. It is here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGImnv3R-0w&feature=youtu.be

[slowjet]

Airbubba ; the FAA did ask boeing if they were RR engines and the Rep replied, "No, I believe on that aircraft, they were a couple of Prats" !

[Airbubba]

Airbubba ; the FAA did ask boeing if they were RR engines and the Rep replied, "No, I believe on that aircraft, they were a couple of Prats" !

At the risk of missing a pun, I think some of Delta's other B-763's (but not N176DN) have GE engines.