Etihad flight delayed 20hrs due wrong tow bar

[bracebrace!]

Eithad EY28 Edinburgh to Abu Dhabi was delayed yesterday by about almost 20 hours due to the inbound flight having the wrong tow-bar loaded in the hold.

Flight was substituted from an A330 to a A340-600 and due to no suitable equipment in EDI the tow bar was dutifully loaded to assist the turnaround. Unfortunately when it came to pushback time the push back team realised that they'd been sent the tow-bar for a A340-500 instead of a -600 which is not compatible.

Cue aircraft having to be disembarked, police called to gate due p*ssed-off pax when informed of an initial 15 hour delay and an A340-600 taking up 2 stands at a busy EDI airport for the whole day.

The 0840 Schedule flight eventually left around 0330 the following morning.

Definitely a DOH! moment. :ugh:

[Hotel Tango]

Take pax and bags off then power back ;)

[andrasz]

I seriously question the competence of a station manager(s) who was unable to beg, borrow or steal a suitable tow-bar from either LHR, FRA or AMS and have it loaded into the hold of the next commercial flight, should have had one in EDI within 2-3 hours (been there, done that).

Of course if there was no station manager and all handling supervision was outsourced, you get what you pay for.

[RAT 5]

Surely a 'hands-on' captain with initiative could suggest to the local handling agent the above ideas. Equally, assuming the final solution was organised via Ops at home base, they would also have the gumption to consider their other UK & EU bases. However, if they only had 1 tow bar each might the same problem then arise else-where? A bit like solitaire, you just move the hole.
What are the limitations on crab-claw towbarless tugs? I'd always had the idea they were very flexible. Surely EDI have those.
There was a case in 90's during a strike in FCO that, allegedly, a BA 767 was pushed back manually on the gear wheels & struts. I heard it was easier than expected. If true, they got out of there when others sat on their hands.

[Noxegon]

Definitely a DOH! moment

More of an AUH one I'd have thought...

[testpanel]

qcSJTOZd8IQ

another option....

[Cazalet33]

I seriously question the competence of a station manager(s) who was unable to beg, borrow or steal a suitable tow-bar from either LHR, FRA or AMS and have it loaded into the hold of the next commercial flight, should have had one in EDI within 2-3 hours (been there, done that).

Absence of gumption, though duty hours may perhaps have been a factor.

Piss poor performance all round, I'd say.

[750XL]

You can't just source an A346 towbar at short notice, they're few and far between in the UK.

I believe the handling agent for EY at EDI only have one A346 towbar in the UK, which is located at MAN and consequently couldn't be shipped to EDI. Even if it was, the crew would have probably been out of hours by then anyway?

Also, options to get a tow bar into EDI from other international airports are very limited. You'll struggle to get a bar into any of the narrow bodied flights that fly into EDI!

[750XL]

PS - i didn't even realise A345/A346 had separate tow bows? Where's the logic in that.

[JammedStab]

This might sound a little silly but, is there not a towbarless tractor around?

[cjhants]

Nobody has a suitable TBL at EDI I assume. Might be time to order one.
750XL- from memory I think the -300 and -500 need inch and a half jaws, -600 inch and three quarter. (Moving office at the moment so cant get hold of the manuals).

[RAT 5]

Are you telling me that the pilots are all common type rated on these variants, BUT the tow-bars are not interchangeable. Astonishing. Which nationality of the Airbus consortium is in the firing line for that one. Equally the crab-claw tug designers; but then again, this variant of AB is quite recent. The numpty who loaded the wrong tower at base might be getting buried in the sand for a short while. (n.b. Remember when you are up to your neck in the sand/poo make sure it's feet first)

[G-CPTN]

How did they resolve the situation?

[Hotel Tango]

How did they resolve the situation?

Presumably with the appropriate tow bar on the next day's flight.

[Una Due Tfc]

Not the worst thing the unmentionable airline has done to an A346 on the ground in fairness.....

[NSEU]

Are you telling me that the pilots are all common type rated on these variants, BUT the tow-bars are not interchangeable.

Probably because the shear pins are designed for certain aircraft weights. An A320 tow bar might have problems with an A380.

Other factors include length (fuselage overhang), wheel size...

[andrasz]

You can't just source an A346 towbar at short notice, they're few and far between in the UK.


A resourceful and well connected station manager can perform miracles. I recall at JFK we had a generator failure on startup. Our SM borrowed one together with a licensed mechanic to change it from another airline within 30 minutes, for three bottles of wine from the C galley plus a promise that the part will be returned on the next days' flight. Promise was kept, proper paperwork was completed on both ends by the time the flight was well airborne, everyone was happy. Oh, he even had the time to make a PA at the gate every 30 minutes to keep pax informed on progress. It was all managed with a 90 minute delay, and he earned roughly his annual salary that evening.

[Sidestick_n_Rudder]

@Andrasz. I guess it boils down to the company culture.

In my previous company thinking outside of the box was encouraged, or at least not frowned upon. A captain with a positive attitude and a resourceful station manager (or redcap/dispatcher/crew planner) could work miracles together. Sometimes a little creativity was required, but it worked well and was fun.

Where I work now, no one will stray an inch from the SOPs/routines for the fear of reprisals. The general thinking is "if it works, nobody will thank you. If something goes wrong, they will hang you".

I tried a few times to do things the old way, but it was always met with indifference, or even hostility.

Now, if there's a problem, I just seat back, relax and wait till whoever is responsible find a solution (usually not the optimum one, but the 'safest' for him)...

[crewmeal]

Lesson learnt? Guess everyone is rushing out to get an A350 towbar in case one drops in :O

[underfire]

time to bring in that front gear with the motor so the ac can just move itself.

[JammedStab]

Once again, can you not use a towbarless tractor for this aircraft type? We do it on 747 and 777.

[ecureilx]

Once again, can you not use a towbarless tractor for this aircraft type? We do it on 747 and 777.

You mean like this ? :D

Not sure if it's ok to post that photo though ..
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Lufthansa/Airbus-A340-642/3907725/L

[Whinging Tinny]

Unless EY have very unique towbars (which I don't believe they woud have because it's not cost effective), then the normal A346 towbar is also used for the A345 as standard.It's a heavy weight towbar compared to others.
An A330/A343 towbar cannot be used for either aircraft due to the weight differential and the shear pin loading.
Are you sure that an A343 towbar was not loaded in error?

[Whinging Tinny]

Jammed Stab:
Yes, you can use a towbar less tractor on this aircraft type.
Done it many times.

[OntimeexceptACARS]

When I worked there a few years ago there was a total of ONE towbarless tug.

It may have been ditched by now. No idea why they are not used more in Scotland.

Thinking more about it, its because stations like EDI and GLA get the dregs of the equipment. Almost all second hand, ex MAN or ex LHR.

[750XL]

MAN doesn't even have an A346 capable TBL, so I'm doubting EDI has one.

[G-ARZG]

A typical A346 bar is almost 12ft long (353cm) weighing 205kgs, not going inside any of the usual single aisles that grace EDI's ramp.

Plus, a station that has one probably has it for a reason, won't want to send it away for a day (or more).

On a related note, the new E190E2 family from Brazil has a different noseleg to
'classic' E190's, will need a different bar !

'ZG

[Rwy in Sight]

won't want to send it away for a day

Should they decide to do it (and given the A340-600) does not fly to great numbers maybe they could switch gates (or rather use a non-contact/remote stand) for the daily flight although by looking at the volume I doubt how easy is to organize fast ground transportation..

[750XL]

I doubt any ground handling agent would want to shoot themselves in the foot and cause extra issues for themselves to help out another station, due to a problem caused by the airlines own incompetence :ok:

[aterpster]

When you have time to spare, go by air. More time yet, go by jet.

[misd-agin]

Had the old A300 vs A320 tow bar issue years ago. Enough difference that the tow bar wouldn't lock in place. Tape to hold handle close to locked position and gentle pushback was the answer. It still came off. Thank goodness it was far enough back so that we could taxi away.

[Kranky]

We would never receive an aircraft onto a pushback bay if we didn't have the capability to push it back. That said, these guys obviously believed they had the proper equipment given the assumed correct tow bar was in the hold.
Probably easier all round to just put on to a power out bay in the first place.

[750XL]

There isn't many airports in the UK where you're going to find a 'power out' parking stand capable of taking the A346, I'd imagine a lot of the taxiways at EDI struggle to take it let alone a parking stand

[G-ARZG]

...and when they landed, they thought they had a suitable bar onboard !

[gcal]

Exactly! and sometimes things go wrong and you can't just conjure up expensive, and comparatively rare, pieces of equipment.
It was a mistake and they occur from time to time; always have and always will.

[TBSC]

Piss poor performance all round, I'd say.
The reason was obviously fatique. Or is that an excuse reserved for pilots? ;)

[Irishguy]

I believe something like this happened in Shannon a few years back. A Lufthansa A340 landed with an emergency. The captain asked the ground crew if they had the correct tow bar for the type as it is different to the A330 before he went on stand. Ground crew said yeh we have that type. Turns out they didn't; even after being told and one had to be flown out from Frankfurt. Was quite the delay.

[Yaw String]

Lesson to be learned here,for all of us.
If you ever have to divert,enroute...avoid parking on a finger,unless you can confirm,100%, that they have a tow bar for your aircraft type..
Its in my diversion checklist..

[jackharr]

time to bring in that front gear with the motor so the ac can just move itself. When I was about four years old (a VERY long time ago) I assumed that aircraft moved on the ground in the same manner as cars with the wheels being driven by the engine(s).

Jack

[Rwy in Sight]

jackharr I think I had similar thoughts.

Just one question on the topic- where the flight bringing the tow-bar was parked the next day? And did they leave the tow-bar there?

[4runner]

Can you not power back with this plane? I've run into the same issue in austere locales with a CRJ and there's a procedure for reverse thrust, powered pushback. I'm pretty sure the 73 can do it too but I'm too lazy to go check my manuals.

[DaveReidUK]

Can you not power back with this plane?

Even if you can, whether you will be allowed to or not will depend on which airport you're at. There's no reference in the EGPH AIP to say whether it is permitted or not.

[falcon12]

Up to a point I suppose, in theory, you can power back most civil airliners.

At LGW in the days of the South Park stands, I had occasion to reverse a Britannia or two (4 x 16ft props) off the stand with ATC permission. I did it again at BOM when parked at a terminal gate - which was on fire as was the terminal, so I just got on with it. Had to save the aircraft, it was the only one we had at the time!

[procede]

Virgin Atlantic had a similar problem when they had to divert to AMS a couple of years back: https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/uk-probes-a340-600-fuel-system-196102/

[Geordie_Expat]

Up to a point I suppose, in theory, you can power back most civil airliners.

At LGW in the days of the South Park stands, I had occasion to reverse a Britannia or two (4 x 16ft props) off the stand with ATC permission. I did it again at BOM when parked at a terminal gate - which was on fire as was the terminal, so I just got on with it. Had to save the aircraft, it was the only one we had at the time!

Many moons ago, I used to watch in amazement when Britannias used to reverse in at the old Newcastle airport, not at the time having any understanding of reverse pitch/thrust.

[DingerX]

The question has been asked, and answered by 411A, of all people (RIP).
Can a A340-600 powerback? (http://www.pprune.org/archive/index.php/t-291725.html)

[Mark in CA]

I hope the airline informed all of the passengers that according to EU rules, they are each entitled to 600 euros cash compensation for the delay, in addition to a hotel room and meals and other necessary items.

[Dairyground]

Just one question on the topic- where the flight bringing the tow-bar was parked the next day? And did they leave the tow-bar there?

Were they planning to leave it there, or were they planning to stop somewhere after pushback and open up the hold to get it in?

The lack of standardization and initiative in this event both amaze me. Is there no strong point they could have passed a rope through or round and then recruited a team of heavy horses from a local brewery to go on the other end?

[RAT 5]

The lack of standardization and initiative in this event both amaze me. Is there no strong point they could have passed a rope through or round and then recruited a team of heavy horses from a local brewery to go on the other end?

Exactly: a push-back tug can pull as well as push. All it takes is some creative latertal thinking. What would they have done if the country where they were parked was under imminent threat of invasion, the airport in imminent danger of attack and the pax were the diplomatic crew of the airlines home country and they had flown in on a rescue mission? I doubt they'd be off to the nearest hotel waiting for a tow-bar.

[csd]

Potentially after the tug has done its pulling, stopping the aircraft could be fun. Especially on a downhill slope. I'd try it in an emergency but not for a casual turn around. Wouldn't fancy explaining to management why the aircraft was sitting on its tail.

Exactly: a push-back tug can pull as well as push. All it takes is some creative latertal thinking. What would they have done if the country where they were parked was under imminent threat of invasion, the airport in imminent danger of attack and the pax were the diplomatic crew of the airlines home country and they had flown in on a rescue mission? I doubt they'd be off to the nearest hotel waiting for a tow-bar.

[daved123]

"then recruited a team of heavy horses from a local brewery to go on the other end"
That's probably a no-go, it doesn't sound as though they could organise a ""-up in a brewery !

[RAT 5]

CSD: You start the APU and use the a/c brakes.

[DaveReidUK]

CSD: You start the APU and use the a/c brakes.

I think CSD's point was that if you apply any more than minimal braking while the aircraft is travelling backwards, the consequences could be very embarrassing. :O

[RAT 5]

So then you use 2 tugs as per a ship and have a puller at both ends, but avoid the tug of war. Or you start the outboard engines to keep the rear tug out of the blast and use thrust to brake the reversing a/c, as you would during power-back. It sounds like the whole issue was a 'risk assessment' scenario. I have to admit, that if there was no critical threat, e.g. the war zone idea I described, then I might offer Ops all the options and let them decide what level of risk they wanted to take. It's the company's train-set, and it's on the ground, so let Ground Ops assess/take the risk and make the decision. The risk is bent metal or commercial via a delay.
If someone was going to start shooting at me I would do everything to FOPDQ.

[Evanelpus]

So then you use 2 tugs as per a ship and have a puller at both ends, but avoid the tug of war. Or you start the outboard engines to keep the rear tug out of the blast and use thrust to brake the reversing a/c, as you would during power-back. It sounds like the whole issue was a 'risk assessment' scenario. I have to admit, that if there was no critical threat, e.g. the war zone idea I described, then I might offer Ops all the options and let them decide what level of risk they wanted to take. It's the company's train-set, and it's on the ground, so let Ground Ops assess/take the risk and make the decision. The risk is bent metal or commercial via a delay.

You should apply for a job at Edinburgh airport!:ok:

[bvcu]

Recall Orlando 1990 when Eastern were bankrupt so saving money on pushbacks .
727,757 and DC9 all powering back off stand with reversers. The A300's had a tug !

[750XL]

Good luck trying to explain that one to management or the insurance company when it all goes tits up and you've got an A346 sat on it's arse, or impaled in the side of a lamp post.

The only safe way to move an aircraft of this size is with an appropriate tow bar. Using rope doesn't allow for a safe pushback and no company in their right mind would try it (whether it be airline or handling agent)

[RAT 5]

Shame Scotland didn't declare war on England for the Brexit vote and threaten to impound all foreign a/c then any means of escape is acceptable. (Joke for those who might be thinking otherwise. It's been a tough week.) However, parking large unexpected a/c at smaller UK airfields has its dangers. Evidence at CWL many years ago a large American a/c of - I forget type - being 'follow me'd onto a nose out stand for which there was no precedent and swiping its wingtip thought the upper level windows of the terminal.

[Capn Bloggs]

Yes Rat, it appears some can't grasp your subtle change of tone... maybe a sense of humour is not allowed in SOPs these days... :}

A 146 was pushed out of a parking FUBAR by the pax a few years ago... was in NZ. The local sheep were asked but said no, they didn't want to be involved in any bum-tipping.

[ironbutt57]

bear in mind folks, creativity went out the window many moons ago at out airlines, due to insurance liabilities, etc...unless a specific procedure is outlined in a FCOM, or some other approved company publication, a power back, while physically possible, would be foolhardy at best...727's DC-9's etc did it regularly in the USA anyway, it was discouraged in the 757/767 FCOMs due to FOD ingestion possibilities.. (although apparently some operators did)...

[CV880]

Using reverse to back up the aircraft may be prohibited in the AFM. An old copy of a 747-400 AFM with PW4056 engines I have states in LIMITATIONS that "Backing the airplane using reverse thrust is prohibited."

[Anilv]

I know that some models of A310 have different towbar attachment points. I seem to remember SU A310s were the oddball ones.

Also From what I remember, the B747 had towbar attachment points on the rear of the landing gear, identical to the ones in front which could be used in extremis.

[Ken Borough]

Didn't a Qantas guy overcook a donk in Damascus when he tried to reverse a 747?

[Neil Amrose]

Mid seventies.Very snowy/icy Gatwick.V delayed BCAL Lagos service.Schedule 1200 .Flt called about 1500 .Crew muttering about hours etc.B707 sitting on centre finger stand sans jetty (iced up ).One set of deiced steps at front.Pax passed from one Pax agent to another in a chain.Ramp not deiced. Doors closed tug attempts p/back.Wheels spin much smoke (tyres) No mvt observed but much noise.3 more goes,tyres of tug looking dodgy.No luck.Tug disconnects.Lots of chatter on headset from Cpt to tuggie.Tuggie moves away.Cpt sticks head out of window waves all away.Engines start.Incredible noise.Staff moved away from gate windows.Success as a/c edges into taxiway.One
very happy Pax Supervisor (me )
.