Long Haul at EDI

[Joe Curry]

What's going on at EDI?

Yesterday's EAL flight to SFB was a shambles.!

The aircraft was parked overnight on 30s threshold and
was only brought on stand about an hour before it's
scheduled 1230 departure.

Only one hour to load fuel, supplies, pax etc; was cutting it
fine surely.?

The aircraft eventually departed around 1400 hrs, amid reports
that it had damaged part of the taxiway.

Anyone throw some light on the actual events.?

I personally suspect BAA has little enthusiasm for long-haul at
EDI.:mad:

[callyoushortly]

Joe

I have no knowledge of what actually happened because I wasn't at work and I haven't spoken to anyone that was there at the time of departure, but.....

1. Maybe it only departed at 1400 because of a delay in the Oceanic clearance..... these things take a while to sort out and if the aircraft's not ready for departure, then the earliest airborne and clearance expiry times can be well in arrears of when the aircraft actually wishes to go.

2. The people at Edi work to the best of their ability at all times, and if that meant the aircraft departed 90 minutes late then I'm sure it wasn't for want of trying to get it away earlier.

3. There are only a couple of places that a 747 can park at Edi, and if those places are blocked by aircraft with other slot delays, which have been prevalent over the past few weeks, then where do you propose we park the aircraft for loading?? Or should we bus all passengers to the 30 threshold!? That'd be fun!!!

4. Maybe the fact that there are only a handful of places that they can park the aircraft makes Edi ill equipped for handling such a flight, but I'd hardly say that we shouldn't give it a go.... aren't you the first to advocate that Edi should have trans-Atlantic flights?? Well, if you're going to be the first to slag off the first attempt in the first week of operation then you're not giving anything a chance to improve are you??

5. The taxiway has damaged areas before the arrival of a 747, are you sure that the taxiway was damaged by the 747 and not just a prior area of damage??

6. BAA has little enthusiasm for long-haul from Edinburgh?! So why bring in the EAL 747? Why keep negotiating with COA for a service next year? Why bother at all if mindless individuals somewhat like yourself decide to put the mockers on it before it's had a chance to get going?

But then as you're such an expert about the workings at Edi then I'm sure you're well aware of all of the above anyway..... however, I'm guessing you're nothing to do with the airport and just spend your time with a radio stuck to your ear...... If you feel like backing up your comments, or actually finding out how the intricacies of Edi affect the movement of traffic, then feel free to e mail me: [email protected] and I'd be happy to sort out a visit to the control tower for you, so that you'll be better informed for any further tripe you wish to post.

[Joe Curry]

>>I'd be happy to sort out a visit to the control tower for you, so that you'll be better informed for any further tripe you wish to post.<<

Such passion. :-)
Perhaps you could arrange a visit for the 400 + pax on the delayed EAL flight who do not have the benefit of posting queries to pprune.? :-D

It might be tripe to those in the tower, assuming you are in the tower.? But folk who were up half the night preparing for a holiday of a lifetime, it was an abomination. We are talking
Scotland's capital city airport here, not East Fortune. :-(

Nowhere for 742s to park at EDI.? Sounds like incompetance on
BAA's part to me.

BAA have criticised amatuer commentators, suggesting folk leave
the running of EDI to the professionals. Their record at EDI to date is far from professional.

BAA's so-called professionalism at EDI has been 'saved' many
times by real ATC professionals amid antiquated field structure.

[Bagheera]

Just a thought 12-30 zulu is 13-30 local

[BryanC123]

Rome wasnt built in a week


All the best to EDI may long haul grow

[Hugh De Payen]

Joe,

I'ts blatantly obvious that your are missing the points that callyoushortly is trying to put across, in very simple terms I may add.

He made not excuses but 6 vaild reasons that may have been the cause of the delay. I'ts a shame that you cannot sit back and take stock of what is actually being explained, rather than briefly scan his post and then start shooting from the hip.

Toodle pip.

[callyoushortly]

Joe

It'd be nice if you took Hugh De Payen's comments on board. I'm not trying to cover up for the problems you seem to have with the BAA, neither am I trying to say that the 747 wasn't delayed.... I don't know if it was or not!!

I do work in the tower and would thoroughly enjoy showing you round the tower in an attempt to show you what we deal with and how we do it....... if I could take 400+ passengers around for a visit, maybe I would..... Anyway, I'm sure half of them wouldn't be interested, probably because they're all sunning themselves in Orlando now, because like it or not, their flight did go!!!

I didn't say there was nowhere for 742's to park, that's what stand 6A was specifically designed for..... it just means that stands 5 and 6 must be clear before it can come into use. Maybe that's where the problem lies.... I dunno!

I think harping on aboput what you see as the BAA's incompetency is a futile exercise..... the airfield is growing at a rate they are able to financially sustain, with more stands coming into use fairly soon (but I won't quote a date because I can't remember). The terminal has grown and I'm sure will grow further. And the fact remains that even with a 12% traffic rise last year, everything still departs and still lands,safely and as expediously as we can manage . Nothing's ever perfect, find me an airfield that is, but we make it work to the best of our ability!!

[Gash Handlin]

I don't know anything about Long Haul from EDI but I was at EDI yesterday trying to get to the Gatbash...

There were huge delays in the morning because there was a problem with the luggage conveyors and the thing that sends the bags to the right aircraft (and I believe that is the technical term for it :D ) all the bags were being sent into the reject pile by the machine and the ground staff had to manually sort all the luggage. This held up check in and according to the announcement by the captain on the aircraft there was a period of about an hour where there were no departures.

As it was the aircraft we were on left minus 58 bags including mine :(

[Hugh De Payen]

Gash Handlin ,

To put it mildly, I think you are trying to hi-jack this thread and turn it into a hate EDI campaign. Poor handling happens at almost every airport that I know, but there is always a reason behind it. Be it that the conveyor breaks down or the handling agents incorrectly advise on a/c departure times or stand location.

This particular issue is not unique to EDI, and if you want testimony of this try JER at the weekends!

Bye for now.

[Scottie]

Gash,

On the Saturday we took a 2 hour slot delay out of EDI due to the computers at BRU (we were told) going down. That was about 6am.

[Gash Handlin]

Hugh...

Nope not at all, I was merely trying to point out what the particular problem was at EDI on Saturday, I have flown from EDI many times and its the first time Ive ever encountered a delay there, and the staff at the airport (ALL staff I might add, even the police were helping seperate bags) Did everything they could to sort out a problem they had no control over.

[TheFox]

Mr Curry where exactly do you get off?

Do you know what exactly caused the aircraft to be delayed?
Do you have proof that it was baa's fault it was late?
Did you know the EOBT of the aircraft?
If its EOBT was 1230 Zulu, and it departed at 1400 local, that isn’t really a delay, Approx 15 mins late??

"Only one hour to load fuel, supplies, pax etc;"

How do you know that fuel and supplies were embarked on stand, maybe it was just the pax brought aboard at stand, and what if it was a missing pax that caused a delay, if any.

Then you go on to question the validity of people on this board, that know what they are talking about.

And judging by your webpage and some of its basic mistake no wonder someone called you an amateur

[GustyOrange]

Joe,

Since you obviously spent all night waiting to see a transatlantic flight from EDI may I suggest you bring your camera and notebook through to GLA. We have 3 767's including a shiny new 764 departing for the US/Canada daily.

You could take some great pics for your website.

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

[Joe Curry]

No need GustyOrange, they will all be coming to EDI
in the near future.

I took this A310 on Friday.

[http://www.airliners.net/open.file/250657/L/]

[Blue Boy]

Joe,

I'm sorry, but you'll be waiting a long time before regular Transatlantic flights leave from EDI in preference to GLA :p

You may want to put your own website together, that's fair enough. However, as CALLYOUSHORTLY has pointed out, very few people on this web site, who work in the business, respect you.

The more crap you tell about EDI, the more you are found out. Get the chip of your shouler pal. get the radio away from your ear and f*ck off

[EGPFlyer]

Calm down Joe! We don't want you going blind over an A310 now, do we?

If you want to compare Joe, I have had a look at the heavy aircraft due today (7th July) for both Glasgow and Edinburgh.

Edinburgh
zilch

Glasgow
3 x 767-300
2 x 767-200
1 x DC-10
1 x 767-400
1 x A310


Best get your raincoat on, pack your notebook, pen, binos and camera and get yourself across.... unless of course you want to spend your sunday doing the crossword, in which case, Edinburgh sounds like a better option! :D :D :D

[callyoushortly]

EGPFlyer

Tell me though......

Week in week out, which is the busier airport???? ;)
Somehow heavy traffic doesn't seem to matter when you're a busy international airfield......;) :p

[EGPFlyer]

callyoushortly,
You know that I know which is busier!
(you tell us often enough! ;) )

[Blue Boy]

Joe,

It's East v West on this.

Never mind what Aircraft EGPFlyer has put on his post, this is, and will always prove that EGPF will be the busier Airport.

If you ever fancy OMDB, I'll show you what an Airport really is.

Edinburgh Airport - Scotland International. My ARSE! Get the chip of your shoulder. Bloody East Coasters......

[Pan-seding]

Blueboy,
have you looked at the latest figures, you barely beat Cardiff!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Blue Boy]

Hey!!

This has got nothing to do with North v South, or even Wales, simply EGPF v EGPH.

If you follow the post's of Mr. Curry you will realise his biase towards the regional airprort on the East coast. What makes it worse is that he isn't even Airline/Airport staff, but a bloody anorak. So what gives him the right to start slagging off EGPF! When the man starts talking sense, I'll buy him a pint.

By saying that, I am not admitting that EGPF is the better of the two. Just that that EGPF has the larger catchment area, better transport links and, and therefore deserves the better routes.

Simple, now accept it.

[EGPFlyer]

From the BAA (http://www.baa.co.uk/main/corporate/newsdesk/news_releases/2002/1630b30658fa9b9d80256bd500531b3e_page.html)

Edinburgh figures for May 2002

9359 movements (incl. 2302 cargo movements)
607400 passengers carried

Glasgow figures for May 2002

8000 movements (incl. 594 cargo movements)
734400 passengers carried


The BAA are more interested in how many people they can get through the terminal than they are how many aircraft they can squeeze in (illustrated by the new car park for glasgow, designed to get as many punters in as possible)

Pan-seding,
Care to give us the Cardiff figures because the only ones I can find say that 1,550,157 pax (including transit) used Cardiff in 2001....not exactly a lot is it? In fact, it is just less than 1/2 of what used Aberdeen in the same period.

[Joe Curry]

Blue Boy..I dont have a radio or a chip on my shoulder.
The 'chip' would appear to be sitting somewhere in Dubai.
Your invitation for me to F/O is extremly rude.

EDI not hosting scheduled TX flights?....of course it will, one thing
for sure, it is not destined to become a municipal airport on the
wrong side of the Clyde. :D :D

[Joe Curry]

>>Edinburgh figures for May 2002

9359 movements (incl. 2302 cargo movements)
607400 passengers carried

Glasgow figures for May 2002

8000 movements (incl. 594 cargo movements)
734400 passengers carried <<

May heralded the start of the shell-suit season.

Nothing to do with social-engineering.? How many of these
charter/tx pax would have flown from EDI if the flights were available.?

CAA/BAA figures prove that on competing routes EDI outperforms
GLA. Charter or TX flights made available from EDI would do
likewise.

Probably something to do with access/convenience no doubt.?

EDI has overtaken GLA on the number of scheduled International
pax carried. Join the stats mailing list on: <www.edinburghairport.org.uk>

EDI was Scotland's busiest airport for the 1st. quarter of 2001. :D :D

[Joe Curry]

>>What makes it worse is that he isn't even Airline/Airport staff, but a bloody anorak<<

I take pictures for my webpage and the
free.uk.binaries.edinburgh-airport newsgroup......that does not
make me an anorak.

I do not know the different aircraft unless I consult the CAA ukinfo pages.

Let's say I know the difference between a narrow and
wide-body. - once I'm inside.!

Notebook and pen.... not a member of airport/airline staff?

I'm retired!

Your ridicule only exposes an east coast phobia. :(

[Joe Curry]

This appeared in today's Sunday Herald, compulsive
reading. :D

>http://www.sundayherald.com/26001<

[TheFox]

Blue Boy, you are starting to sound like Joe Curry's west coast clone.

Never mind what Aircraft EGPFlyer has put on his post, this is, and will always prove that EGPF will be the busier Airport.

Just that that EGPF has the larger catchment area, better transport links and, and therefore deserves the better routes.

No airport deserves flights. The quicker people realise that the reason all those aircraft are flying about is to make money the better. The only agenda for BAA is to make money.

Joe you are living in denial, re anorak, and it is a "Professional" message board and if you don’t have a radio how do you know how good the ATC is.

Can someone please explain to me why there is a rivalry between EGPH and EGPH? Lots of people not involved with each airport seem to "support" each airport like football teams.

As a small aside and meant to be humorous, at the college a good way for us to remember which ICAO designator was for Edinburgh and Glasgow was to remember there was posh houses in Edinburgh and poor f***ers in Glasgow. :D

[Joe Curry]

>>Joe you are living in denial, re anorak, and it is a "Professional" message board and if you don’t have a radio how do you know how good the ATC is.<<

I read it on this professional message board.:rolleyes:

[Captain Rodders]

Tried hard not to get involved in a "My airport is better than yours" argument but, let's look at the facts.

Statistics are more reliable over a longer period so here goes.

1992

Edinburgh - 2.538 million pax
Glasgow - 4.669 million pax
Prestwick - 0.011 million pax

2001

Edinburgh - 6.038 million pax
Glasgow - 7.243 million pax
Prestwick - 1.232 million pax

Growth

Edinburgh - 3.500 million (137.90%)
Glasgow - 2.574 million (55.13%)
Prestwick - 1.221 million (11100.00% - listed but meaningless form such a small base)

Source - CAA

Fight among yourselves to draw conclusions, be thankful that all airports are growing.

CR

[Chocks Wahay]

Geez - "my airport's bigger than your airport". Grow up.

[ATCbabe]

Ok now I'm confused!!!! I work at Edi yet come from Gla. Which one should I be supporting????:confused: :confused:

As Chocks Wahay says "grow up"

Edi may be busier at the moment movement wise but until we get bigger a/c in Gla is gonna be able to push more passengers through.

For your information Blue Boy, Edi is only called Edinburgh airport, It doesnt have international in its title, or at least on the terminal building it doesnt!!

I really am getting fed up reading this west coast vs east coast type of thread. Does it really matter which airport is doing the best?? All that matters is that both are doing well and expanding, which has got to be good for both airports, passengers and the Scottish economy. Surely thats all that matters?

[Joe Curry]

>>For your information Blue Boy, Edi is only called Edinburgh airport, It doesnt have international in its title, or at least on the terminal building it doesnt!! <<

Which is confusing. :(

EDI is the Scottish number one airport for scheduled International Traffic.

BAA - on present form - could take what seems a mandatory
30 years to add 'International' to the title on EDI's terminal building.? :rolleyes:

[ATCbabe]

Joe Curry,

That, unfortunately, is very true!!!:(

[EGPFlyer]

What difference does it make? :confused:

[Joe Curry]

>>Joe Curry,

That, unfortunately, is very true!!!>>

The examples of BAA's mismangment litter the field ATC babe. :(

Your present tower is circa 1950/60s, redundant from somewhere
down south.?

The 12/30 spur cannot support anything heavier than a very light
737.?

[Joe Curry]

>>Edinburgh grew +16.2% and Glasgow added +11.0%.<<

Are you boasting or complaining here EGP flyer.? :D

[callyoushortly]

Joe....

The 12/30 spur...... is this the runway or the melee of unused taxiways serving that runway??

If you're talking about the runway, then 757's and A300's have been known to use that runway for departure and landing, and as you well know...... it can take a parked 747 ;)

[GustyOrange]

ATC Babe,

My commiserations,

Unfortunately I make the long journey from Glasgow thru to the office in Edinburgh every day as well.

I was just thinking that next time you are in the city centre you could brighten up my day and offer to buy me lunch.

;) :D ;)

[EGPFlyer]

Joe,
I was commenting on the fact that Edinburgh doesn't have 'International' on the side of the terminal! :mad:

Any growth at the moment is welcomed at both airports..... I would like to see it continue as it can only be good for Scotland.

I am sure you will be aware of a mailing list called 'scotavnet'. On it, there is continued bickering about 'which airport is best'....Does it really matter? As long as those of us who work at these airports are kept in a job, then that's all that we are interested in, unlike the spotters of this world who are more interested in what aircraft are going where.

They need to grow up! :mad: :mad:

There will be no more jibes from me on this subject and Joe,
I would ask that any input you have to this thread will be of interest and benefit to the other users, otherwise whats the point?


Edited to say I totally support your point that Edinburgh is getting a raw deal......The BAA are more interested in whats going on down south, and to them, we are just a tiny piece of the puzzle.

[Hogg]

Guys/Girls. This thread is getting abit out of hand.

As EGPFlyer has said above " Dont be posting useless info" its a waste of bandwidth and please Stick to the Thread.

It has turned into a slagging match between Fact and Wannabee Fiction.

Hogg

[Wheelybin]

Hogg,
You and ATCbabe are for the most part correct, EGPF against EGPH is useless,they are two airports clamouring for the same traffic. However i do believe that a "monopolies comission " enquiry is appropriate. If you wish to fly to any long haul destination from EGPH then you you have a choice...That choice is to go via London , Amsterdam,Paris ,or Frankfurt..ie you can fly BA ,KLM ,Air France or Lufthansa.(All flag carriers,all via THEIR airfieds).
Now whilst i appreciate that EDI may not have the traffic to sustain a permanent far east route ,I have to question why the good and the great from around Edinburgh are required to fly for a minimum of 2 hours before they get on a plane that is taking them in the right direction.
A While ago a decision was made regarding twin jet operations,Chicago and Atlanta thought ahead and made the most of it ,and built the two biggest airfields in the world.Given EGPF annd EGPH location (under the trans atlantic flight path) lets think about the possibilities.....
EGPF/or EGPH made in to a two runway site..... Trans-atlantics touching down every half hour ....offloading then dispatching their charges to Frankfurt,Paris,Amsterdam.....Whos the dreamer?

[Joe Curry]

>>The 12/30 spur...... is this the runway or the melee of unused taxiways serving that runway??<<

It's the taxiway. Surely they still use it.?

Anyone know if 12/30 is 'listed'.? Is there a preservation order
or something similar.?

[ATCbabe]

GustyOrange,

I brighten up everyones day :D :D , but I dont buy lunch!!!:p

[Chocks Wahay]

Joe Curry what makes you think 12/30 (or any other runway for that matter) should be listed? Looks pretty much like every other bit of flat(ish) tarmac with numbers on my planet to me.

[Gash Handlin]

Joe,

I just read your location at the bottom of your posts..

Livingston, Edinburgh?? what's wrong with calling the county you live in by it's proper name?? Ashamed of West Lothian :D :D

Gashy

p.s. before babe or puffy jump in ... I am ashamed of where I live thats why I just say Near EDI :p

[Joe Curry]

>>Livingston, Edinburgh?? what's wrong with calling the county you live in by it's proper name?? Ashamed of West Lothian <<

Nope...but Livingston is only 7 miles from Edinburgh City boundary.
I was raised in Edinburgh, lived and worked in Leith, then I moved out
to North Berwick. But infirmity forced me to move to Livingston and
closer to family support.

I'm surrounded by neighbours who work at EDI, they are not exactly
baggage handlers. :cool: But they do know when one has had one's tea. Yes, Livingston, Edinburgh is a fair description:D :D :D :rolleyes:

[Anti Skid On]

No way (as the crow flies perhaps) - seven miles from the edge of Livvy to the airport perhaps, from Livvy centre to the castle more like 15.

WheelybinA While ago a decision was made regarding twin jet operations,Chicago and Atlanta thought ahead and made the most of it ,and built the two biggest airfields in the world.Given EGPF annd EGPH location (under the trans atlantic flight path) lets think about the possibilities..... - try telling that to all the folks who trek to LHR rather than using services at MAN - likewise you can often get better deals AND connection going through AMS. Do you really think Mr. Frenchy, Dutchy or Gerry will want to get off in Ecosse (or MAN for that matter) and switch to a narrow body jet. The hub idea should work like that, but in reality it doesn't.

(and before anyone says I am being anti-Scottish, I too am from there - west side, not the smelly brewery stench side)

[Joe Curry]

>>7 Miles - My arse! << :rolleyes:


>>No way (as the crow flies perhaps) - seven miles from the edge of Livvy to the airport perhaps, from Livvy centre to the castle more like 15. <<


I did say the city boundary.....the railway arches just east of
Broxburn.:p