Gate to bay: pilot required?

[juliusg]

Saw an SQ A330 power down at a remote bay at Mascot the other day - instead of being tugged there. My questions: (a) how often does the crew 'drive' the aircraft from the gate to the bay; and (b) when tugged, who is onboard?

[Sunfish]

from memory, many years ago, some LAMES had license to Taxi. not even sure they can do engine runs these days.

[ACMS]

a/ Almost never, Engineers tow the Jets as required.
b/ Driver in the Tug ( obviously !! ) and an approved person in the cockpit on the brakes if required in an emergency to stop the Jet.

Sunfish:----you must be joking surely? Of course they can do Engine runs!!

Engine runs with pax or crew on board require the CN to sit in a control seat.( not to run the Op but to look after any EVAC situation as it occurs )
If the ginger beers need to do an Engine run ( and they do often ) with no crew or pax on board then they obviously don't need a crew member present as they are big boys ( or girls ) and can do it on their own quite well :ok:

[Sunfish]

thank. you for the update ACMS, in my day LAMES indeed did engine runs ,however with the nanny state OH&S these days I wasn't sure if they were still allowed.

[Aviater]

Generally: -

Flight Deck operator
PIC - Person in Charge
Tug operator
Taxi Endorsement
Aircraft Marshaller


All of the above are company approvals that any LAME/AME can and do hold. There are a number of pre-requisites for each.

Taxi movements must have minimum x 2 approved LAMEs on the flight deck.

Tow approvals must utilize 1 of each of the above. No taxi endorsement required. PIC runs the whole show. Marhalling as required.

No requirement for flight crew for any engine runs unless you need a seat filled.

:)

[ACMS]

Sorry but if pax or crew are on board then the CN or designate must occupy a control seat.

[Capn Bloggs]

CAR 229 allows engos to taxi:

229 Aircraft not to be taxied except by pilot
(1) A person must not taxi an aircraft anywhere on an aerodrome if the person is not either a licensed pilot whose licence is endorsed for the particular type of aircraft concerned or a person approved by CASA in accordance with the terms and
conditions of the approval.

[Aviater]

Sorry but if pax or crew are on board then the CN or designate must occupy a control seat.

Can you quote the legislation behind that?

[no_one]

Capitan Bloggs,

I think that CAR 229 has been revised in recent times because the rule when it was written as you quoted had a major problem. It was an offence to taxi an aircraft on an aerodrome if you were not a pilot or an engo who had a taxi approval, but taxi it down an ALA and all was good.... :uhoh:

[Capn Bloggs]

No one, yes, it has. My boo boo. Same principle though. Part 64 mentions "aerodrome" though. Is an ALA an aerodrome? :confused:

[ACMS]

Aviator----Yes my Ops manual.

I don't care what yours says, if you can trust an Engineer to look after your 300 pax if it all goes pear shaped then go for it....

[Aviater]

Aviator----Yes my Ops manual.


That's what I thought. Your manuals may require this and others may not. Whilst everybody's procedures and manuals vary, the basic rules will almost always apply, as suggested in my original post.

[Capt Fathom]

So if it does go pear shaped, who is going to order an evacuation of the passengers in the absence of the flight crew?

[ACMS]

Exactly why, common sense and my employers Ops manual says I have to be present in a control seat during Engine runs with Pax on board.....it says if possible I should conduct these Engine runs.....

[airdualbleedfault]

Happy to be corrected but I've never heard of engineers being allowed to taxi a jet

[TURIN]

Happy to be corrected but I've never heard of engineers being allowed to taxi a jet

It used to be common practice but nowadays, insurance companies get a bit nervous and its also expensive to ensure that a LAME retains taxi currency on type. To be honest I would rather not have the responsibility unless i'm going to get paid extra for it.