BA pilot upsets DUB ATC once again.

[Consol]

[/URL][URL="http://www.pprune.org/http//:m.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=qFUZ6oHBft4"] (http://https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=qFUZ6oHBft4)Sorry folks, link broken see the post below. Thanks.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=qFUZ6oHBft4

[ATC Watcher]

not working , can you re-check, or put key words ?

[MarkD]

qFUZ6oHBft4

[luoto]

The address is missing a colon after the https.

Cut and paste, add a colon before // and it works.

edit: the link displayed is different to that embedded in the forum, i.e. "http://https//m.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=qFUZ6oHBft4"

so https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=qFUZ6oHBft4 will get you there.

[RAT 5]

Perhaps the calm lady on ground ATC could file an etiquette report to BA about their Nigel taking up valuable & limited radio time over trivia. I've never heard of a pilot volunteering to write a report over minutiae. Writing any kind of report is a drudge, but when 'needs must' it is a responsibility to make changes where necessary. Volunteering to write one about trivia where nothing is going to change is a whinge of epic proportions. I wonder what example was being shown to the F/O (captain's apprentice). And the world still turns and no-one died. OMG.

[White none please]

What an arrogant :mad::ugh:

[OscarRomeoDelta]

Poor Nigel! :rolleyes:

[West Coast]

etiquette report

That's a real report?

[DaveReidUK]

Some might think that a pilot could reasonably get upset with a ground controller who has just cleared his flight to push back into the path of another aircraft, prevented only by a vigilant tug crew.

Except that Nigel didn't get upset, he simply pointed out calmly to the oblivious controller what had happened and informed her, not unreasonably, that he would be filing an ASR.

Or have I been listening to a different recording?

[Lord Lardy]

It's what one would call a :mad:. The sad part is he probably still thinks he's right.

[ATC Watcher]

Thanks luoto for the amended link.
Well if I was the Dublin ATC head receiving such a report from BA, I would just copy and paste the audio file and write : "contact us if you have any further questions" .
But I bet you a pint of Guinness that no report was written in the end , it was just like a kid bravado after the other crew comments on the R/T to get the final word .
It is also apparently his own error to stop monitoring the frequency, if I get it correctly.
Anyway , kuddos to the girl for remaining quiet and professional all the way . I do not think I would have remained myself that polite until the end...:E

[Lord Lardy]

Some might think that a pilot could reasonably get upset with a ground controller who has just cleared his flight to push back into the path of another aircraft, prevented only by a vigilant tug crew.

Except that Nigel didn't get upset, he simply pointed out calmly to the oblivious controller what had happened and informed her, not unreasonably, that he would be filing an ASR.

Or have I been listening to a different recording?

You missed the part where she said she tried to notify them of the other aircraft and they acknowledged they weren't listening out on frequency.

[Tourist]

I'm sorry, but I'm listening to something different then most of you.

I hear speedbird get cleared to push and start and then get stopped by vigilant groundcrew because somebody else in another aircraft f@cks up.

The Nigel might be an arse for blaming the ATC girl (clearly not her fault, she did well) , but he's right that that was potentially a bad incident, and a report should be written.

The other pilots on freq are being very unprofessional. Laugh in the cockpit, but don't clutter a busy freq.

[DaveReidUK]

You missed the part where she said she tried to notify them of the other aircraft and they acknowledged they weren't listening out on frequency.

You mean while they were on the intercom to the tug crew who were explaining that they had stopped the push to avoid hitting another aircraft?

A little late for the controller to advise of the conflict, methinks.

[Lord Lardy]

Both pilots on the intercom? I'm sure it's not BA SOP for one pilot not to monitor a frequency they are working. I hope he did/does file his report. It will all come become clear for all concerned from there. I have a sneaky feeling however that there won't be any report written.

[6f1]

Nigel is always whinging around the world,they are very unprofessional.

[Hand Solo]

Chip on both shoulders! I'm sure you've met all 4000 BA pilots.

[DaveReidUK]

I'm sure it's not BA SOP for one pilot not to monitor a frequency they are working

You're missing the point.

Even if the BA crew had been monitoring the ground frequency and had heard her warning, it still came after the vigilant tug crew had already stopped the pushback of their own accord when they became aware of the conflict. That situation should never have arisen.

I hope he did/does file his report. It will all come become clear for all concerned from there.I hope so, too.

[GLuis103]

What would you suggest then ? Herself coming down from tower and tell them to stop ? That´s no reason for the BA pilot to blame her ... Could´ve handled that much differently, or was everyother pilot in the freq also wrong ?

[RAT 5]

but he's right that that was potentially a bad incident, and a report should be written.


OMG: a BAD incident. If that was a bad incident and a report is necessary then some airlines must be drowned in paperwork. The poor guy who has to read and decide about all those reports. Airports used to be surrounded by trees until all those reports.

prevented only by a vigilant tug crew.

There are airports where the air-crew is given clearance to push & start and the vigilant tug-crew are responsible for the safe push. A crash was prevented by a vigilant push-back crew and ground-man. Isn't that exactly what they are for. Congrats for doing their job in the same way we prevent crashes every day even though being surrounded by threats of multiple proportions & varieties.

There is a tongue in a cheek somewhere, but let's get real and find a sense of proportion; Please. JFK, O'Hare, Boston, and most of African airports would be never get through the day.

[Lord Lardy]

Even if the BA crew had been monitoring the ground frequency and had heard her warning, it still came after the vigilant tug crew had already stopped the pushback of their own accord when they became aware of the conflict.

I'm sorry, that assumption you've made isn't clear from the transmission, hence why I hope a report is written. All transmissions will become clear.

[olster]

BA crew utterly unprofessional: regardless of comms with ground crew, the other pilot should listen to the radio. The controller remained calm and professional; other aircraft should not comment - also unprofessional. Whether the maxed out controller made a mistake or not, she is the only one who comes away with any credit imho.

[Hand Solo]

Did the ground controller ever call the BAW81D? It's not on the recording, so we'll never know. Perhaps it's just another edited hatchet job by a spotter with an agenda like the BAW845 recording (because that was nothing like what really happened either).

[6f1]

Chip on both shoulders! I'm sure you've met all 4000 BA pilots.



I actually worked for BA until I retired recently no not all BA pilots are unprofessional but a good proportion are!

[Mikehotel152]

The published recording does not support either side of the argument, either of terms of what was said or the time delay between clearances to push.

From memory of that part of Dublin airport, two aircraft pushed to start points B and C at the same time would have to cross paths, so something should have been said on air so that both crews had full situational awareness. On a busy ground frequency, surely that's the controller's remit?

However, the tone and attitude of the BA pilot was a bit haughty. Who would have thought it...

[DaveReidUK]

I'm sorry, that assumption you've made isn't clear from the transmission, hence why I hope a report is written.

Actually it's crystal clear from the recording.

BA: "ground crew have stopped the push"

Ground: "I was trying to call you, sir, but you weren't listening out"

BA: "I wasn't listening out because we were talking to the ground crew and they're telling us the same thing"

So no assumption involved - the controller's unheard attempt to stop the pushback came after the tug crew had done exactly that.

[airpolice]

Once again, we have trial by internet and selective evidence.

Maybe it would all be clearer if we heard the full recording, no edits, no timing changes.

A report should be filed, so that lessons can be learned, but this butchered recording makes it difficult to see who needs to learn the most. Except Nigel who needs to be reminded what the Radio is for. She had enough on her plate without listening to him throwing his rattle out of the pram.

[Lord Lardy]

Exactly, not listening out.
Very poor airmanship whether they are right or wrong.

[EdmontonCTR]

There are airports where the air-crew is given clearance to push & start and the vigilant tug-crew are responsible for the safe push. A crash was prevented by a vigilant push-back crew and ground-man. Isn't that exactly what they are for. Congrats for doing their job in the same way we prevent crashes every day even though being surrounded by threats of multiple proportions & varieties.

Why bother with ATC at all, when we can solely rely on marshallers and rampies for safety assurance? :D

[Andy_S]

Whether the maxed out controller made a mistake or not, she is the only one who comes away with any credit imho.

If she made a mistake, I can't see how she comes away with any credit........

[av8r76]

The pilot is allowed to air his displeasure at the mix up. But, as mentioned, the ground crew is just as integral part of the team as the folks in the FD. They stopped. Incident averted. It's a busy frequency. People get stepped on all the time. And to justify the missed call because they weren't monitoring the frequency is wrong as well.
I can't recall the number of times I have been asked to cancel/hold pushback due to conflicting traffic. Someone in the FD is always monitoring the frequency. If the ASR was filed, I have a feeling it might backfire on this pilot.
And to clog an already busy frequency with a puerile comment that he will be filing an ASR? Ya. TOOL seems an appropriate description.

[BitMoreRightRudder]

Once again, we have trial by internet and selective evidence.


Yup. And once again a thread about BA is flooded mainly by spotters with an agenda. In fact it's about time Pprune was renamed Swaag in their honour.

"This thread is a right load of Swaag" for example.

[Mr Angry from Purley]

Its not Nigel these days anyway its Ruppert or Tristan

[Nieuport28]

Well, hopefully the Old Boy will calm after all the Brexit Stress lowers.

[KelvinD]

Listening to the communications on a different source, the controller said "An ATR (unintelligible) pushing back behind you to point Bravo". That was it, no call signs and no instruction to hold etc. Surely, the ATR should not have been given clearance to push back if it was going to conflict with the BA flight? I also think the pilot reported his intention to file a report in a calm, matter of fact manner. No "haughtiness" or arrogant about it.

[RHS]

This is honestly some of the biggest nonsense I've ever read on this "Professional" pilots forum.

From the recording, she gave no warning, the Stobart, who had been cleared to push after the BA aircraft, started their push, and the BA ground crew stopped the push. So during this period, the BA pilots will have their headsets on, and would of course be listening to the frequency, I think they might have managed to hear "BAW81D stop push" but the ground crew beat them too it.

So he raises this, rightly, to the ground controller. Instead of just apologising, and getting on with life, the controller immediately tries to place the blame on the crew.

So the Shamrock Pilots start chipping in with their complete lack of professionalism, and call the BA pilot a "tool" on open frequency, and the BA pilot is the bad guy for filing an ASR? How about every single day in LHR when Shamrocks are told to MONITOR tower and immediately check in with "Able intersection...... If it helps" with a queue of heavies in front, and an exceptionally busy frequency.

99.9% of *actual* Airline Pilots would I'm sure also file if they had been cleared to push back in to another aircraft, and a collision was avoided at the last line of defence (the tug crew). It's not to apportion blame or somehow get one over on the controller, it's to highlight that a failing had occurred. How do you know this hasn't happened with the same gate 15 times in the last year and a trend is developing? You don't, unless you file, and the company has the data.

Anyone characterising all BA pilots as unprofessional, honestly, the chip on the shoulder is real.

[Gonzo]

Perhaps we should all understand that the YouTube account has a history of posting anti-BA clips, as well as the fact that the audio is edited.

Nobody knows the full story here.

Safety wouldn't improve without reporting. Nobody should be criticised for reporting on anything; as an ATCO I'd like to know if any crews on my frequency are going to file because then I can file a corresponding report so that investigations can have a more complete picture.

[Chronus]

It all sounds much like pushing and shoving at a football match and saying "honest it ain`t me who done it".

Nige will have to go to elocution classes, learn a bit like, right speak, drop h`s, say mate and ta often, and he will never again be pushed and shoved and be suspected of arrogance and unprofessionalism.

By the way are all Niges Sirs.

[jientho]

Looks like pure sensationalism based on winks and nods to me. Overworked controller doesn't give a timely warning, or speaks so fast that the warning isn't heard/understood. Pilot, whose ass is after all on the line literally, is justifiably frustrated at the situation. Other pilots pile on. First pilot pushes back. I can't fault either of the principals. I can fault an overworked system and 3rd-party provocateurs. Also, there is no such thing as a "minor" safety cock-up in aviation, eh? Well within his duty to file.

[Jwscud]

Perhaps given the large number of incidents at Dublin, with "Ground" operating one part of the airport, "Delivery" also doing the other half of the ground frequency, and the local culture being one of issuing very long and complex taxi instructions at "New York fast" it's time for them to have a rethink? Clearing someone to push into the path of another aircraft (if that is what happened) is not acceptable, and they need to look at why it happened.

I was in and out of Dublin for years when I worked for the big Irish Loco and it was always a nightmare.

I also view it as good manners to tell someone you're going to file as it means they don't get a surprise phone call a few weeks later.

[Tourist]

[I]
OMG: a BAD incident. If that was a bad incident and a report is necessary then some airlines must be drowned in paperwork. The poor guy who has to read and decide about all those reports. Airports used to be surrounded by trees until all those reports.


Don't be a :mad:
It wasn't an incident at all, but the situation had the potential to be a bad incident like I said.

If you can't see that one aircraft being pushed into another has potential then you are an idiot.

[zonoma]

I agree with Gonzo on several parts, the video is clearly edited so the full facts aren't known and any safety incident should be reported regardless of how trivial you think it is. I also have issue with the childish remarks made by all the other crews. Certainly think them, never say them. That man they are winding up and raising blood pressure is about to fly an aircraft. It is good for all the other pilot sakes that no further incident took place otherwise they could be noted as a "casual factor" on the investigation report.

It's very easy to point the finger, but at least do it with all the full facts in place first.

[Hand Solo]

"I wasn't listening out because we were talking to the ground crew"



Very difficult to listen to ATC when the ground crew are yelling at you they're stopping the push and you're trying to keep things safe. Aviate, navigate, communicate. Have you ever been on a flight deck?

[Lord Lardy]

I'm sure it wasn't that dramatic to be fair.

[DaveReidUK]

Why have someone on the flight deck monitoring Ground when manoeuvring on the ground? Just cut out the middleman/girl.

I'd guess that if you have just survived a controller's attempt to get you to push into the path of another aircraft, then your immediate priority isn't necessarily what they are about to say to you next. :ugh:

[Hotel Tango]

I'd guess that if you have just survived a controller's attempt to get you to push into the path of another aircraft,

Well, not entirely correct. BA was first to be given push. Stobart (Aer Lingus) was subsequently given push clearance and warned of the BA pushing back.

[NWSRG]

I'm only SLF / PPL, so not qualified to comment on the procedures, and who was right or wrong.

But what jumps out is the unprofessionalism of the other pilots who were so keen to get into a fight that wasn't theirs...what did they add other than satisfying their own egotistical desire to have a dig?

Almost wary of saying this, but was there something in this about having a go at an Englishman in Dublin?

[Ian W]

I really think you all should spend a little time in a ramp tower at one of your hubs. The hassle the ramp tower controllers have to deal with is unbelievable. None of you would do this of course - but pre-emptive calls for pushback to get ahead in the queues, pushing then stopping blocking the ramp and the gate while bags are loaded, or paperwork that should have been handed to the crew is faxed by some route .. etc etc., The reason that you have a push crew of tug and marshallers is precisely because you cannot see behind you and someone will actually push when cleared rather than 10 minutes later so the marshallers can stop everything turning to worms. If you can take it spend a couple of busy hours in a ramp tower for your professional development you will learn a lot.

[Journey Man]

The transcript may have been cropped, but from what little is presented Stobart are cautioned about the BA pushing back. The first the BA appear to know is being stopped by the ground crew. Where was ATC trying to call Speedbird?

Yes, the Speedbird crew appear irked by the situation, rightly or wrongly; but I wouldn't say they're unprofessional about raising their concern. From another viewpoint, they also give the controller advance notification that they consider safety was eroded and the ATC has an opportunity to recall as much of her perception of the situation as possible, rather than finding out several weeks later and not have a complete picture of events.

The ignorant rubbish from other crews is indicative of poor discipline that's invading the modern cockpit. It's a poor reflection on the others, not the ATC or Speedbird. Tall poppy syndrome.

[seatrumpeter]

All I can say is that it sounds like if most of you are ever assigned a trip to say, ORD, LAX, SFO, BOS or EWR you should definitely call in sick. You will be filling out ASRs for months....

When I was a kid growing up flying light jets out of ORD we were lucky when we DIDN'T hit another airplane while pushing back - uphill in the snow! AND we had to get out and push it back ourselves!

[BCAR Section L]

When I was a kid growing up flying light jets out of ORD we were lucky when we DIDN'T hit another airplane while pushing back - uphill in the snow! AND we had to get out and push it back ourselves!

so what are you implying? aviation isn't as well managed, safe, controlled, safety orientated as you (pilots) continuously state elsewhere?

As pax how should I interpret this near ground miss and the response from so called professionals?

An incident and it was an incident requires a report. where's the problem?

[DaveReidUK]

When I was a kid growing up flying light jets out of ORD we were lucky when we DIDN'T hit another airplane while pushing back - uphill in the snow! AND we had to get out and push it back ourselves!

When I were a lad, we was lucky if we had wings on our plane ...

Any other Yorkshiremen out there? :O

[John Boeman]

Quote: "When I was a kid growing up flying light jets out of ORD we were lucky when we DIDN'T hit another airplane while pushing back - uphill in the snow! AND we had to get out and push it back ourselves!"

Haha, love it! :-)

With regard to this incident, all I know is that there have been plenty of times in my career when pushback has had to be stopped by either the groundcrew or ATC. In all that time (twenty plus years), I cannot recall a time where it took both of us crew to talk to the ground crew or 'deal' with the stop.
I am sorry but for an 'incident' like this (and yes, I am assuming that the aircraft did not even come particularly close to one another), occurring as it did in such a busy environment, the idea of filing a report would not even enter my mind. Obviously, in some peoples eyes I am not as professional as I like to think I am.

[BCAR Section L]

So to put this in its context as stated at the beginning of the film
we shouldn't concern ourselves with a controller making a mistake because its justified under the circumstances (busiest day, at capacity 15 aircraft to look after, alone etc. etc.) because its ok to chuck the safety imlications aside, its not worth reporting.

I would have thought professionals concerned with safety would have submitted a report to ensure the next mistake isn't a more catastrophic one.

I am horrified at rhe unprofessional responses over the radio and on here.

[blind pew]

Had loads of incidents...part of the job ..but to make an irresponsible transmission that I will be filing a report does absolutely nothing for safety and only puts unneeded pressure on the controller.....
Guess the Sun will carry the headline "Brit pilot starts dublin p@@sing contest during centenary year of Irish revolution".
The first time I heard anything like that was in BEA during the continuous descent trails in the 70s...pilot sadly hung himself a few weeks later...not that I'm suggesting that nigel needs his head examined.

[Union Jack]

Yes, the Speedbird crew appear irked by the situation, rightly or wrongly; but I wouldn't say they're unprofessional about raising their concern. From another viewpoint, they also give the controller advance notification that they consider safety was eroded and the ATC has an opportunity to recall as much of her perception of the situation as possible, rather than finding out several weeks later and not have a complete picture of events. - Journey Man

Now why am I reminded of http://www.pprune.org/safety-crm-qa-emergency-response-planning/302971-iberia-ib6166-bos-mad-2nd-dec-cowboys-26.html ?:hmm:

Jack

PS Just make sure you have plenty of time to spare...

[DaveReidUK]

I am horrified at the unprofessional responses over the radio

Including one reported sarcastic comment from a Ryanair pilot with a short memory, presumably having forgotten that RYR have had at least 4 of their aircraft damaged in ground collisions at DUB to date.

[Basil]

not all BA pilots are unprofessional but a good proportion are!
And your professional qualification for stating this opinion?
If BA cut up rough, and they can, I hope you can back that up in court :hmm:

[Basil]

I'm sure it wasn't that dramatic to be fair.
We don't know. Sudden stop - WTF? Has a shear pin gone? Are we still rolling - back or forward - Do I need to set the park brake? Ask ground handler.

BA pilot DID sound a bit tetchy but we all have the occasional off day. In the end, nothing was damaged and the others had fun shouting at the airline they'd like to work for ;)

[RAT 5]

When I were a lad, we was lucky if we had wings on our plane ...

"Wings? You had Wings? When I were a lad I got blasted across the footie pitch out of a cannon. Only wings I had were me arms. Wish I had some wheels.

[hoss183]

Clearly theres lots of folk with axes to grind.
If you search out the un-edited audio from LiveATC (19.6 15:00 - 15:30z EIDW) and listen to it you get this:
15:04.23 81D: request push
15:06.31 GND <unintelligible > ...caution BA will be pushing back to charlie
15:06.35 GND: <confused blabber> ... caution ATR pushing behind you (but that seems to be to Ryan 7316 from the following ack)
15:07.53 GND: <unintelligible> ...pushing back behind to you to point bravo
15:08.19 81D: BA makes is call that push has stopped.

There is no proper call from GND warning BA, (at least not one that has an intelligible callsign) Thus it's not surprising that they didnt respond.
And there's only 1 call at 15:07.53 which could have been it. Thats a single call, not 'i have been trying to call you) and only with 15 seconds warning.
IMHO this is a ground control error, and the controller is the one trying to transfer blame. IMHO the 81D pilot is perfectly entitled to be shirty and correct to flag it. The professionalism comes purely from the others on freq.

[Hotel Tango]

hoss183, bear in mind that the <unintelligible> parts may well be due to crossed TXs, which are not uncommon on busy ground FRQs (try JFK). The controller may not be aware that part of her TX has been stepped on.

[RAT 5]

Why bother with ATC at all, when we can solely rely on marshallers and rampies for safety assurance?

Guys; bear with me. This might seem too radical for some from the sheltered world: and no insults are necessary. This is a story about the real world; it does happen.

When I first went to Italy, and went to a stand-up cafe counter, I learnt that their system was pay first with the madam and then collect from the long bar. WTF I thought. Well, PDQ, I realised it worked great. It was different, but worked great. I waited a minute, paid and received an excellent boiling coffee and fresh crostini standing at the bar.
Fast forward to return to N.Europe and the buffet canteen style. Stand in a queue for ages; arrive at coffee machine; stand in same queue for ages and pay. Find some grotty table to sit at and drink tepid coffee. Give me the Italian system any day. But foreigners think it 'strano'.

I can't remember the airport, but it was busy and long complicated taxi-ways. Ground controller was 100 words a minute.

Consider the norm. Captain asks for push & start. ATC give start clearance and a lengthy pushback instruction - "tail west, push to C, pull forward to abeam #62, beware of push back from #60." Captain attempt to read this back having forgotten to have pen handy. He then relays this to the head-set man, who then tells the tug driver. Swiss cheese anyone? Maybe English is not first language of any of them. Maybe captain's first visit and is unfamiliar. "Say again," might be very common - on a busy frequency. And, as captain am I really interested in the push-back routing? Do I have any control over it? Can I see where I'm going? No to all. I'm really more interested in what the taxi route is going to be AFTER the tug has gone.

Now, at the forgotten airport:
Captain asks for start. This clearance is given so that a/c arrive in a timely manner and correct sequence at the relevant runway. Captain then tells headset man they have start clearance. He, or tug driver, then ask for push-back clearance and receive the lengthy instruction with which they are familiar in a language they may understand better. Any caveats are added and understood. The ATC guy may not be the busy ground controller, who is looking after the taxying a/c; he may be just a push-back coordinator. Captain is asked to release brakes and off you go. Crash avoidance is responsibility of headset man + tug driver. They know the place and can see where you are going. (Last time I looked the wing mirror had been removed from my a/c, unless you are tug pilot.

The point being it worked a treat. It was different, but worked great with no traumas. The guys who controlled the motion of the a/c also were responsible for not pranging it. It sure cut down a lot of radio speak and removed a few slices of cheese.

"The mind is a wonderful thing and like a parachute: it works better when open."

[kcockayne]

In an earlier post about this I mentioned an incident which I had many years ago where I made a simple & obvious mistake; & in which an apology to the a/c Captain sufficed ( rather than filing reports & possibly getting shirty). If I was still an ATCO, how I would yearn for those days. More importantly, how much more would I yearn for the days before the Internet, YouTube & whatever interfering busybody who chooses to make comments about things of which he has little or no understanding,when your every move is scrutinized by "armchair ATCOS & pilots" !
Despite my previous post, this is an incident which needs a sober & professional assessment; & the rest of us, who weren't involved, to keep our noses out !

[Hotel Tango]

Have to agree with you 100% kcockayne. And too many FSX jockeys who think they know it all when in fact they know nowt!

[hoss183]

hoss183, bear in mind that the <unintelligible> parts may well be due to crossed TXs, which are not uncommon on busy ground FRQs (try JFK). The controller may not be aware that part of her TX has been stepped on.

Of course, thats why we have read-back.

[eckhard]

RAT 5
Sounds like it might have been in Germany? DUS used to have this procedure until a couple of years ago and I think HAJ still does.

As you say, a bit 'different' but works well.

Blind Pew
What a tragic story. Do you mean that the poor pilot made some sort of error and was jumped on by others on the freq? He must have had some extra problems at home as well if he felt so bad that he hanged himself later. So sad.

To come back to the incident at DUB; my experience is that it can get busy and a tad confusing with unusual push-back procedures and ground markings, as well as quite lengthy taxi clearances. Couple this with a few missed calls and double transmissions and it's no surprise that there is the odd 'event' that needs trapping. I haven't listened to the recording but I wonder what was going through the minds of the pilots who felt compelled to add their tuppeny-worth - did they really think that they were contributing anything useful? If not, it's normally a good idea to just shut up, especially on a busy frequency.

[Hotel Tango]

Of course, thats why we have read-back.

Sure, if you can get a word in. As I said, try JFK, or even AMS.

[PDR1]

When I were a lad, we was lucky if we had wings on our plane ...

"Wings? You had Wings? When I were a lad I got blasted across the footie pitch out of a cannon. Only wings I had were me arms. Wish I had some wheels.

Arms? LUXURY! When I were a lad we 'ad to....

[sorry- just need to talk to the ramp guy for a sec. Something about a traffic snarl up on the taxiway]

Right sorted, now where was I...?

PDR

[ATC Watcher]

RAT5 : your posts make my day and reconcile me with the time lost to read through some of the nonsense here ..:ok:

When I was a lad , pilots used to come to the bar at the bottom of the Tower, and when there was a problem one of them would say after the first beer : " Oh, By the way ...."
The issue raised was debated ,and if it was one , the culprit had to pay a round and for sure it never occurred again.
If there was no solution or no one to blame , , one would say : "**** happens ! " and that was it .

[Cyber Bob]

Give the guy a break - obviously the wife left and took the kids. There is a bright side, an ideal candidate for command training I would have thought
CB

PS. To remove any doubt, I am taking the p..........................