EU Slot Time and Visual Approaches

[galaxy flyer]

Two questions for EU controllers, specifically Swiss and French:

Slot times: why, when there is no slot regulation in effect, can I not ask for a departure time "when ready"? At Lyon, I was ready about. 25 minutes before the filed time, but was told I could I had to depart on my proposed EOBT. When I asked to send a "ready" message, I was told it wasn't needed as there was no slot regulation. Then, again told I couldn't leave early, but I could cancel the plan and revile. I've seen this before, but it was in Italy.

Visuals: twice last week I stated, "airport in sight, request visual" and it was ignored in both cases. In both cases it would have made things easier for both me and the ATCO. At GVA, the high and fast arrival, we had to slow and got high, which left the controller asking if we when we would leave 7,000. I asked for the visual, which would put the burden of descent profile on us (severe clear), but not even a reply. At Lyon Bron, severe clear, 12 miles out, field in sight, not a plane around and the ATCO insisted on ignoring the visual option and vectored us for a LOC.

Mind you, I've flown in Europe for 28 years and these actions strike this Yank as silly.

What's up?

GF

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Visuals - how do you know what might be underneath you, possibly on another frequency? Suggest you bell the ATC unit and ask them politely why you were restricted as there's bound to be a good reason.

[Tom!]

If you are very bored on a flight you can read this:
https://www.eurocontrol.int/sites/default/files/content/documents/nm/network-operations/HANDBOOK/atfcm-users-manual-current.pdf

Procedure for Modifying the EOBT of a Flight not having received an ATFCM Slot
Procedure
- To amend the EOBT to a later time, a DLA or CHG message shall be sent to IFPS.
- To amend the EOBT to an earlier time, a CNL message shall be sent to IFPS, which, on receipt of ACK message, shall be followed by a new flight plan with the new EOBT indicated.
Note: The replacement flight plan procedure shall not be used.
5.1.4.1


Basically all flights in Europe are monitored by Eurocontrol to make sure no ATC sector gets overloaded, this is done through your EOBT +\- 15 min. If flights depart outside that the big plan does not work anymore so you need to refile with your correct EOBT so the realtime flow calculator knows if it will affect a sector down route.

Ready messages only apply to slots.

[TWR]

Visuals - how do you know what might be underneath you, possibly on another frequency? Suggest you bell the ATC unit and ask them politely why you were restricted as there's bound to be a good reason.

...and don't get me started on the holy noise abatement :*

[galaxy flyer]

HD,

We were number 2, seven miles behind landing traffic at Geneva, so I doubt it was airspace or traffic. The situation was we were too high for the ILS clearance, not a traffic conflict. At Lyon, the only plane and told we were the number one and only inbound.

Tomi,

Thanks for the reference, I'll pass it on to my guys as they have asked me about being told the same in the past. Maybe we have it too easy in the US, unless flying in/out of an airline hib or truly horrible weather, rarely get ground stopped I normally fly thru the NY area, using GA airports like Teterboro or North Philly, never a slot even when filed 20 minutes prior to take-off.

Can the system really take a FLP CNL, then take a refile 25 minutes before the original EOBT? I'm leery of losing the whole thing or having slot regulation applied and be later than the original time. Sounds like slot regulation without the slot regulation.

GF

[Tom!]

If you are very unlucky the new flight plan could come with a slot but I think it very unlikely it would be later than your original EOBT if it is the same route/level.

[EastofKoksy]

Lyon is an A-CDM airport. The rules mean you won't be allowed to ask for start until 5 minutes before your EOBT. The only way around that if you want to depart early, as was explained by ATC, is to cancel and refile a new EOBT.

[galaxy flyer]

Great, thanks everyone

GF

[galaxy flyer]

In a Global, getting down is never an issue, slats and max boards will peg the VVI. The controller seemed to need the extra miles more than us which is why I asked for the visual--we'll take over for the descent plan from the ATCO.

GF

[Vanxup]

Hi,

In LFLL, according to the french AIP, "In order to reduce noise nuisances, the visual approaches are prohibited except for safety or medical emergency reasons". Same in LFPO, LFPG, LFPB...

Guess it's the same in LFLY