Mastering the skill of landing

[Rzrukmanis]

I am a pretty newbie student pilot. At this moment I have 20 hours flown.. They are all on Cessna 172 , I have flown a few solo flights already , but I haven't got stable landing skills, I bounce or flare too late often , because I am afraid to flare too high, and then I approach ground too fast.. And the question is - How can I know that it is the right moment to flare? And how important is to round out before flare? And one more thing - for a Cessna 172 Vref is around 65 kts ... At which point of the landing I can forget about the airspeed? Is it at the moment when I start slowing down descent? What else can you suggest me for mastering the landing?

[blueandwhite]

We have all been in the same position. Don't worry. Talk to your instructor.

[300hrWannaB]

I was going to go for a long winded answer, but the truth is that B&W is right.

All I shall add is that the more often you fly, the more familiar it will become. Sometimes circuit flying can be a grind, sometimes you feel that the plane is flying you, sometimes the circuit pattern seems awful small and you are back round on another "unstable" approach. These are the times when you may feel like asking to depart the circuit, fly straight and level for a bit, change airspeeds a few times, then make an approach again.
Even experienced pilots need to practice to get familiar with the finer skills. And no two days are ever the same. That's how it is.
We've all been there, and sometimes return!
Oh
Sorry, I went for the long answer.

[RatherBeFlying]

Suggest you search this forum on "landing".

There's lots of folks before you with the same difficulties and volumes of sage advice.

[India Four Two]

Rz,

Follow RBF's advice.

One point though - 65 kts is a bit fast. I suspect you have been given a Vref for an aircraft at gross weight plus a "flying-school safety factor". It's been a while since I flew a 172, but I suspect at typical training weights, 55-60 kts would be comfortable. I routinely use 60 kts when flying a 182 solo, with half-tanks. Talk to your instructor about it and look in the POH for the actual stalling speeds and multiply by 1.3. The 172N POH I have, only quotes stall speeds for maximum weight (2300 lb), but the minimum full-flap (aft CofG) stall speed is 36 kts (47 kts Vref) and the worst case flaps-up (forward CofG) is 47 kts (61 kts). These speeds will be lower with lower gross-weights.

And another point - I glance at the ASI during the approach, but I don't look at it again, once I've started the flare.

[TowerDog]

Agree, 65 knots may be a tad fast for a C-172.
If empty, try 55 or so.
No extra points for going fast, except perhaps in strong crosswinds and/or low-level turbulence.
Good luck..:cool:

[ddoth]

As others have said, 65 is too fast if you're solo. You'll balloon or chew up runway.

I come in with about 1400RPM and about 10-15ft, pending wind, SLOWLY start pulling power, raising the nose to accommodate for the sink.
Peripheral vision will let you know when you need to increase the back pressure, you're trying to stay just about the runway for as long as possible.

[India Four Two]

you're trying to stay just above the runway for as long as possible.
and even when the mainwheels touch, keep pulling back on the yoke, to keep the nosewheel off the ground for as long as possible

[Gargleblaster]

Agree with everyone here. Was in same position, lesson after lesson where I couldn't get it right. Then suddenly ! It's been said that the trick of landing is to try not to land. The trick is obviously to do this as low as possible, not 10 feet up in the air.

[Flyingmac]

If your instructor is teaching you a 65kt approach speed, and pitch to control rate of descent, instead of power, bin him. Get one who knows how to fly a 172 properly.


Wearing my flak jacket and tin hat. Fire away.

[nkt2000]

You guys are starting to worry me. I have done almost all of my training in C172s and have had my license since September last year. My instructor always told me that approach speed was 65 knots and 60 knots for short field landing. Two other instructors I have since done checkouts with also concurred with 65 knots for normal landing approach. So how come this is too fast all of a sudden?

If it is too fast, where does the old addage "65, stay alive" originate from.

[RatherBeFlying]

The dirty secret of training in the 150/152 is that full tanks + two males put the a/c over gross - but not by much.

This makes the recommended speeds in the manual closer to what's needed than in a 172 with two up (remember that manual speeds are derived for full gross).

Two up in a 172 is considerably less than full gross, which makes the recommended speed in the manual a bit high.

Root(1900/2200)*65 = 60.4

But don't forget adding speed for wind and gusts.

Also your instructor doesn't mind the extra few kt if your airspeed control is woobly;)

[dobbin1]

You guys are starting to worry me. I have done almost all of my training in C172s and have had my license since September last year. My instructor always told me that approach speed was 65 knots and 60 knots for short field landing. Two other instructors I have since done checkouts with also concurred with 65 knots for normal landing approach. So how come this is too fast all of a sudden?

If it is too fast, where does the old addage "65, stay alive" originate from.
The POH (172P) gives a range of speeds for final approach:- 60 to 70 KIAS with 30 degrees of flap. 65 is simply the middle of this range. These speeds are at max weight of 2400lbs, but the POH does say "may be used at any lesser weight".

It is possible to calculate lower approach speeds for lower weights. The approach speed is usually around 1.3 X the stalling speed in the landing configuration. This stalling speed will itself vary with weight, using the formula : Vs new = Vs old x the square root of (new weight/old weight). Hence the stalling speed at 2200 lbs will be 0.97 x the 2400 lb stall speed in the POH. You could apply the same calculation to approach speed. You need to take some care though, since the airspeed indicator becomes less accurate at very low speeds due to position error.

[Flyingmac]

If it is too fast, where does the old addage "65, stay alive" originate from.

The same place as "Too much speed, you do not need" and "If you like to float, get a boat".?


I see lots of three point landings with nosewheel aircraft. In most cases any attempt to hold the nose off would result in a balloon because it's just going too fast.

[Gertrude the Wombat]

Agree, 65 knots may be a tad fast for a C-172.
Depends on model, check the POH, yadda yadda. The ones I usually fly are 65 on final, 60 over the hedge, probably around 55 at flare except by then I'm no longer looking at the ASI. Think about it - if you lift off at 50, you're not going to be able to touch down very much faster than that, are you, as it'll just keep flying.


Suggest, however, you do not do what I was doing a couple of weeks ago - last couple of hundred feet at 45 with the stall warner blaring (hint: they have a lower stall speed if you put floats on them).

[9 lives]

For approach speeds for a tricycle 172, I will fly a speed which will decrease from 75 KIAS to 55 or less KIAS. It depends where I am along the approach. I sure don't want to be sitting a half mile back, a few hundred feet up, at 60 KIAS, if it quits, a neat glide landing is not certain. And, I don't want to be crossing the threshold at 75 KIAS, unless I have a very long landing in mind.

When I train in a 180 series amphibian, the glide approach speed will be 80 KIAS until the landing surface is "made". I imagine I'd fly a 172 amphib similarly. If your instructor would like you to fly a 172 at 60 KIAS half mile back on the approach, ask him/her this: With a planned touchdown point identified (and stated) far down a longish runway, demonstrate a glide landing to the surface from crossing the threshold (obviously high) at that slow speed.

If I need to get a plane into a very short runway, it'll be a 1.1 to 1.2 Vs0 approach carrying a lot of power, but knowing that if the engine quits before I cross the threshold, a crash is very likely.

Don't fixate on one speed. Fly a profile which will keep you most safe further back on the approach, and get you across the threshold at a suitable [slower] speed to touch down shortly after - that is not one speed, it's a planned deceleration, as you descend. If in doubt, the minimum speed you should fly farther back on the approach would be Vy, because from that speed, a good glide entry is possible in the case of engine failure.

[TowerDog]

.



Agree, 65 knots may be a tad fast for a C-172.
Depends on model, check the POH, yadda

Yes but the POH for light planes only list approach speeds for max gross.
Sure, approaching a long runway, fly fast and bleed off after crossing the fence.
Also, as mentioned, on long final, carry a little extra in case the motor goes quiet so you
can still make the field, slowly slowing as you get closer. Not quite a stabilized approach as per big airplane requirements, but it will work.
I "learned" flying Cessnas in Alaska operating 100 hrs a month in to dirt strips, beaches and
mountain mining camps. Short strips and low speed was important every time.
Sometimes you "hang it" on the stall warning on short final with lots of power, behind the so-called power curve, then chop power and pull all the way back when crossing the edge of the strip with feet firmly planted on the brakes before touch-down.
(Don't try this at home kids...)
It worked, one could stop a heavily loaded C-207 in 100 meters with gravel and rocks flying into the flaps and tail. Lots of wear and tear but that is what the bosses wanted us to do.
So, long strip, fly fast. Short strip, fly slow.

[Gertrude the Wombat]

When I train in a 180 series amphibian, the glide approach speed will be 80 KIAS until the landing surface is "made". I imagine I'd fly a 172 amphib similarly.
Not the ones I was flying a couple of weeks ago - they struggled slightly to cruise at anything much more than 75!

[Stall Inducer]

The best tip I could give you assuming your in the ball park for the correct speed & stable approach is to think about where your putting your eyes. Eyes on your aiming point until just prior to starting the flare and then look to the end of the runway to judge your sink rate. If you have a less than satisfactory landing have a think about it afterwards and ask yourself where you were looking at touch down. There's a good chance that you haven't moved your focus to the end of the runway.

[mary meagher]

It's getting late, perhaps somebody has already suggested this...and I couldn't make my eyes focus on the long long post above.

BUT do practice stalls at altitude. Get so familiar with the handling of the Cessna that you could judge your speed from the way it feels. Suppose you didn't have an ASI working, you could still land safely.

However, if you have say a 737 following, you may wish to expedite, and forget about using the flaps!

[glum]

As someone else posted, switching you focus to the end of the runway at the flare point was what made it click for me.

Being prepared to react quickly on the elevators, such that you can counter a balloon before it develops also helps - I balooned a lot, so learned to expect I'd get the stick displacement wrong, and anticipated the correction.

[Piltdown Man]

Firstly, dump some speed. I used to fly a 172 fully loaded (with smelly bush walkers) and used an approach speed in the order of 55 Kts or so, 60 if windy. It was more than enough. The time to round out is when be runway surface starts to loose the blur and becomes visually clear. Ease the power back and as you round out, look well down the runway. Apply gentle back pressure and using your peripheral vision prevent the aircraft from climbing, just allow it to gently sink. It will not land until it is ready. Do not make it land.

PM

[Chuck Ellsworth]

I really try and avoid getting into these how to land discussions, however I just have to comment on this subject.

If you look at the far end of the runway after the flare to the level attitude you will never ever really be able to judge your height above the runway...period.

This nonsense came into use about thirty years ago when someone decided this was a good way to teach.....

...sure you can judge the nose attitude looking way ahead but you can not accurately judge your height above the runway.

When I was teaching flying two things were very common with pilots.

(1) Climbing like a roller coaster chasing the airspeed.

(2) Looking way to far ahead during the latter stages of the landing, resulting in the inability to accurately judge height above the runway.

Accurately means about six inches from the wheels to the runway.

Chuck Ellsworth :

[TowerDog]

Wow, you nailed it Chuck: How not to land and how not to teach.

You forgot to write down the proper way to do it however.

[flyinkiwi]

This thread highlights a problem with offering flying advice across the internet. While you old hands know your stuff, there's no way I'd be telling a 20 hour pilot to disobey their instructor no matter what the flight manual says. We haven't flown with the OP so we don't know what other problems that are affecting their landing they've not told us about because frankly they are not aware of them.

To Rzrukmanis: All of these questions you've asked are great questions that you should be taking up with your instructor. I think it's great you are actively identifying your own weaknesses and seeking advice, but where you are at in your flying you need to keep your instruction uncluttered and better tuned to your circumstances.

[glum]

Chuck said "If you look at the far end of the runway after the flare to the level attitude you will never ever really be able to judge your height above the runway...period."

So why does this technique seem to lead to me making better landings?

Do you really need to know exactly how far above the runway you are once you've done the flare and are now just 'flying' the aircraft until it can't fly any more and settles onto the ground? (I'm assuming you can tell the difference between 2 feet and 10 feet - i.e. you know if you've flared way too soon and ended up too high)

[Chuck Ellsworth]

Do you really need to know exactly how far above the runway you are once you've done the flare and are now just 'flying' the aircraft until it can't fly any more and settles onto the ground?


Do you need to know how far you are behind the car ahead of you on the highway?

Do you have to know how far you are away from a wall you are parking beside?

Of course you do, and you should know exactly how high you are above the runway all during the landing process.

At least that is my opinion.


(I'm assuming you can tell the difference between 2 feet and 10 feet - i.e. you know if you've flared way too soon and ended up too high)


Once again to be a proficient pilot you must know your height above the runway at alll times until you are on the runway.

Why is this question even being asked?

For me personally I can judge when the wheels are six inches above the runway.

Some years ago I posted a detailed explanation on how to judge height and where to look during the approach and landing.

I am on a trip across Canada in my motor home at this time and have limited access to the internet.

Maybe someone here can find my post on landing and copy and paste it here?

Chuck Ellsworth.

[lutonvarieze]

Early on in my flying one of the instructors told me to begin the flair when the ground seems to start rushing at you. Worked for me so far on tail draggers, nose wheel, and gliders...

[TowerDog]

. Early on in my flying one of the instructors told me to begin the flair when the ground seems to start rushing at you. Worked

I am not sure when to start flaring anymore, I just do it to avoid an accident.
An old rule said a good landing is when you run out of airspeed, altitude, back pressure and vertical speed at the same time. More art that science perhaps.
Any monkey can fly the book, but if he or she does not have the "touch" the "feel" or a bit of luck, it will end badly. :cool:

[glum]

Chuck: Why is this question even being asked?

Because I want to learn. :confused:

Do you need to know how far you are behind the car ahead of you on the highway?

Do you have to know how far you are away from a wall you are parking beside?

Of course you do, and you should know exactly how high you are above the runway all during the landing process.

At least that is my opinion.



Once again to be a proficient pilot you must know your height above the runway at alll times until you are on the runway.

Why is this question even being asked?

For me personally I can judge when the wheels are six inches above the runway.

Some years ago I posted a detailed explanation on how to judge height and where to look during the approach and landing.

I am on a trip across Canada in my motor home at this time and have limited access to the internet.

Maybe someone here can find my post on landing and copy and paste it here?

Chuck Ellsworth.
As an engineer, I understand accuracy and tolerance.

The answer to your distance questions is yes, but with a suitable level of accuracy. Distance to the car infront / wall will depend on the speed you're doing, and your rection speeds (including the mechanical response of the vehical). So long as you can tell you're X feet behind, do you really need to know you're X feet and Y inches? To the nearest foot is fine.

I'd be really interested to learn how you know you're 6 inches off the runway (how did you verify this?) hopefully the link to your previous post will explain.

Right now, I'm at "couple of feet above the tarmac" accuracy...

[The Ancient Geek]

A lot of the problem here is the way that "flare" is understood.
It is not a single action, it shoud be a process, starting when you cross the fence, of adding back pressure to progressively reduce the rate of decent. By the time the wheels are a foot or so above the runway you should be gradually sinking and you will soon hear a series of squeaks as each tyre bites.

Think of it as similar to stopping your car at a red light, you should be braking smoothly from a distance so that you reach the line at a crawl, not dropping anchor at the last moment.

[9 lives]

The flare is the act of arresting the rate of descent which got you to the ground and slowing airspeed at the same time. It is possible to do a no flare landing (I watched a C 130 do one yesterday - Thump, and lots of blue smoke!), but don't do that in GA planes, they are just not built for it.

So you want to stop going down before you contact the runway. In a perfect world, you could have the aircraft aerodynamically stop going down at the moment you touched the main wheels, while holding the third wheel off. That's the perfect world, nice, but not always possible. So next, as Chuck suggests, flare, arrest the descent rate to zero, and pause so close to the surface (I like 6" high) that the plane could fall from there, and you'd still get a nice landing. As you pull nose up cautiously to hold at 6" high, the plane will inevitably slow, and thus settle gently on its own - hold that attitude! After the mains touch, hold that attitude! Eventually, the third wheel will come down on it's own nicely, while you control direction.

How do I know I'm 6" above the runway? On pavement, it's difficult. On long grass, I can hear and/or feel the tops of the grass whisping the wheels. In really long grass, you can feel the grass drag on the wheels. Look farther down the runway to judge height, not closer. It's not your eyes "measuring" the distance from the ground which is helping you to judge your height, but rather the "sight picture" which includes a whole lot of peripheral cues too. Your eye is judging the space between the plane of the ground (geometrical plane - not aeroplane) and the plane of your eyes. Your eyes are naturally conditioned to "see" in a horizontal plane, particularly while you walk, so you know which way is up. As you stand up, you see the two planes separate. When you sit down, your eye height perception tells you when your butt is going to hit the chair. Same thing once you calibrate your eye height to the wheels, your eyes will know when the wheels will touch. This does become a problem going from plane to plane with different eye heights. I'll fly both a floatplane amphibian (rather high) and flying boat (floats in the runway, not on it) in the same day, and eye height cues must be mentally supplemented!

Do not be in a hurry to get the flare over with! Think of it as a special, very pleasant experience of finite duration, and enjoy as long as you can. It has not ended when you touch, as you can still slow the plane aerodynamically while you hold it off while on the runway. And don't be in a rush to get on the ground to stop shorter. Even holding off in the flare, you're still slowing down, nearly as quickly as you would with a bit of braking.

Think of the flare as your final opportunity to get a little more flying for your money, just hold it off those last few seconds, and do not release the controls just because you touched. Fly it to the wheel chocks! (not vital for a 150/172/PA-28, but very good discipline for when you start to fly tailwheel!).

[glum]

Thanks Stepturn, very helpful!

[WhiskeyPapa]

Slowing things down can make it easier to land (especially in benign weather conditions). That might mean a long 60 knot final.

Later you'll need to learn how to fly 80 knot, 70 knot, 65 knot, 60 knot and 55 knot finals.

Don't worry. It's natural to be having these worries at 20 hours. The bad news is you'll be having them at 200 hours too!

(Also, FWIW every instructor has a different style. Learn the way your instructor wants.)

[OpenCirrus619]

Some years ago I posted a detailed explanation on how to judge height and where to look during the approach and landing.


It this the one?
http://www.pprune.org/private-flying/74587-judging-flare.html

OC619

[Chuck Ellsworth]

It is interesting reading my comments and opinions on this subject as the years past and I get further away from flying for a living.

I also sit here now and wonder if any of my comments actually helped anyone improve their way of seeing the picture and made their flying easier.

Reading these pages I noticed I never mentioned my method of actually teaching the picture we see when approaching and landing.

So here is a bit more.

The first thing I do is demonstrate how I do it and where I am looking during the last fifty feet above the ground in the approach and also that I countdown the height to the flare point (The change from the approach path to level flight just above the runway. )

After the flare and during the speed decay and loss of lift portion of the latter stage of the landing I verbalize the height changes every foot of change closer to the runway or a gain caused by ballooning to the final contact with the runway.

Once the demo is done I then have the student fly the airplane as I verbalize the height from fifty feet to the touch down, thus allowing the student to see the picture as they get closer to touch down.

Generally the students get the picture in less than two hours hearing the height above the runway to the touch down....just like Airbus and Boeing do it, except I am not a computer and you can ask me questions. :O

Time is really going fast now, I will be eighty one in October. :eek:

[Big Pistons Forever]

I find students who are having difficulty judging flare height are often a bit overwhelmed with all the things happening in the final stages of landing.

One exercise I have had some success with is to fly a good approach and flare but just before the wheels touch I add just enough power to keep the aircraft airborne in the landing attitude. I then deliberately balloon slightly with a bit more power and then let the aircraft sink back to just above the runway.

The student has nothing to do but watch the sight picture. I get them to tell me how high they think we are and whether the aircraft is going up, down or steady.

I found this let the student calibrate their eyes and without the pressure of flying the aircraft lets them process what they are seeing.

Finally excessive speed makes landings harder for new students because it unnecessarily prolongs the flare which gives the student more time to screw up. As was noted the POH speeds are for gross weight. A C 172 or Pa 28 with 2 students and half tanks will be at least 300 lbs below gross weight. Reducing the approach speed by 5 kts works wonders for all of the typical trainers.

[300hrWannaB]

Hmm
I'm heading towards 400 hours. The Lord Himself holds the log for the how many landings I've survived. I can count the good ones on one hand.
My multi-thousand hour instructor simply drove the plane at the threshold, with 1300 revs set and nailed it. And this was a right floater of a trainer plane too. I guess that the key was the thousands of hours.
For me, the priority is the threshold, not the cycling of the throttle. A gentle touchdown is a bonus.

[TowerDog]

For me, the priority is the threshold, not the cycling of the throttle. A gentle touchdown is a bonus.

Unless you are doing heavy duty Short Field work I would not focus too hard
on the threshold, but rather a few 100' beyond for safety margins.
On big airplanes we aim 1000' down for little jets and 1500' or more for big jets.

[9 lives]

with 1300 revs set and nailed it. And this was a right floater of a trainer plane too. I guess that the key was the thousands of hours.

I have seen pilots of varying experience, including thousands of hours, who would benefit from skills improvement.

Engine RPM is not a number which can be correct or incorrect on final approach. For a light GA aircraft, I like to see the throttle closed on short final, I don't care about the RPM, as long as there is some. I accept that some pilots might like to carry power into the flare, but watching a tach to determine if you're carrying the right amount of power on final is just wrong!

As I mentored this morning, engine power is not a flight control. Engine power is managed by the pilot strategically to control the place where the plane will land - it is not used tactically. By "place" I mean the airport (the strategy), not the location on the runway to the nearest ten feet (the tactic).

"Cycling" the throttle is distracting, don't do it in GA planes. If you need to adjust your landing tactic, to assure that you make the runway, or don't overshoot it, change the power setting, then leave it alone, and focus your attention on using the flight controls to fly the plane - the throttle is not a flight control.

Any GA plane will float if you enter the flare much too fast. 5 knots too fast is not going to cause a "float", but 10+ knots too fast will. It's up to the pilot to apply their skills, and knowledge of the aircraft type (read the flight manual) to know the optimum speed for approach and fly that speed. Then the plane won't float, it will just flare, when flown properly. If you're "at one" with the plane, you won't need to watch an ASI to know that speed is correct, you just will. In the mean time, know and fly the correct speed for the aircraft, configuration and weight.

For myself, excepting occasional practice zero flap landings, every landing I fly will be flown at the maximum landing flap setting. I have never regretted using full flaps for a landing.

[barit1]

Once again, $0.02 worth:

I personally prefer the full-stall touchdown, from my taildragger background. I use an approach speed that I have tested at 3000' AGL, probably on the lower end of the POH range. This tells you what is appropriate for your current GW and flaps configuration. Most of my experience is at shorter landing strips (note I did not say "runways").

So after clearing obstacles, I let the aircraft "home in" on the runway, and seek to hold it at two feet height, until it simply loses enough kinetic energy to land itself. I never force it down. :ok:

[The Ancient Geek]

Fine in a taildragger but frowned upon with a nosewheel and guaranteed expensive damage with a canard.

[9 lives]

I've never flown a canard, so respect their unique characteristics. In the mean time, for the light single tricycles I fly, I will full stall on, unless there is a reason to not. If not a full stall, it will certainly always be full flaps, and nose high slow. for taildraggers, I most commonly wheel land, particularly if I don't know the plane well. It provides more positive control and reduces wear and tear on tailwheels. That said, the wheel landing will still be slower, and nose more high at touchdown, no need for excess speed wheels to runway.

For water planes, floatplanes are full stalled on, unless a glassy water landing, flying boats are not full stalled on, but rather landed on the step, which is the water equivalent of a wheel landing in a taildragger. In all cases, full flaps, other than the types for which use of full flaps is not permitted on floats.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

AG, a fully held off landing in a nose wheel or tail wheel aircraft is the correct way to it in light aircraft. It won't work for a fast jet landing on a carrier, an airliner in a x-wind onto a wet runway, but for most GA landings it IS the way to do it.

Many nose wheel pilots just don't bother, and plonk it on 3-point over-stressing the nose leg. Which sooner rather than later gives up the unequal battle (see AAIB reports any month you choose).

[Parson]

Quality of the landing is usually proportional to the quality of the approach. Many light a/craft pilots approach too fast (and I'm guilty of that now and again) and then get all out of shape when landing.

When flying SE nose wheel I pretty much try and stall onto the runway.

[9 lives]

Many nose wheel pilots just don't bother, and plonk it on 3-point over-stressing the nose leg. Which sooner rather than later gives up the unequal battle (see AAIB reports any month you choose).

Absolutely correct.

a fully held off landing in a nose wheel or tail wheel aircraft is the correct way to it in light aircraft

Not so absolute with respect to tailwheel aircraft, more a matter of pilot preference (I do note that SSD qualified the statement with "most"). personally, I will always wheel land taildraggers, unless presented with a good reason to three point - and that good reason has not been presented to me yet for any "normal" operation (which is all I fly in them).

But, in any case, make sure you know what type of landing you intend, and you fly the plane, don't let it fly you.

[The Ancient Geek]

Stalling is a bad idea because it causes the nose to drop.

[dont overfil]

It can be difficult to get the nose to drop in a Cessna 172. It is more likely to sink in a nose high attitude. Ideal for landing!

I spend all day watching students learning to land. All the problems I see are caused by trying to land too fast.

India Four Two explained how to calculate the landing speed for the actual aircraft you are flying at the weight it is at now.

There's a flight school near me teaches 70 knots in a Warrior f'christ sake. What chance do the students have?

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

AG, I didn't say 'stall it on', I said 'fully held off'. That was deliberate. As the stall is approached lift reduces considerably and the aeroplane sinks long before the nose drops.

The aeroplane therefore touches down well before any nose-drop tendency can begin if you fully hold off inches above the runway. Even if you fully held off 20 feet above the runway the aeroplane would not nose-in; it would descent flat into the runway at a very high rate of descent. You might get away with a colossal bounce, or you might write off the aeroplane. So don't do that!

Just do your hold off a few inches (the fewer the better) above the runway and keep pulling back (not enough to induce any climb) as the speed falls until it kisses the runway despite your best efforts to keep it airborne.

[piperboy84]

1. Knock off 1MPH for every 80LBS your actual weight is under gross from the POH approach speeds.
2. Pitch for speed, power for altitude.
3. When hitting ground effect and round out look 300yards down runway for height judgement.
4. Get that stall warning blaring/ get the yoke back into your belly, and wait for the touchdown.
5. Don't overthink it, it'll pretty much land itself.

Edit to add: Have it trimmed correctly for each circuit leg and flap setting, i.e. every time you adjust the flaps adjust the trim.

[Good Business Sense]

There are three simple rules for making a good landing ........... Unfortunately no one knows what they are :ok::ok:

[Maoraigh1]

For a Pu/t landing, the most important item is a calm RHS occupant.

[India Four Two]

Engine RPM is not a number which can be correct or incorrect on final approach.

Step Turn,
I agree. There are only three occasions when I look at the tachometer. During the run-up, a quick glance during takeoff to confirm max RPM and when setting cruise power. Otherwise I just adjust the throttle as required to maintain my flight path.

[gulfairs]

sit in aircraft while stationary:look straight ahead, figure out where the ground is relative to your ears.
When approaching the flare height , the ground will be about a foot from the bottom of your ears.
Keep looking ahead is to assist in keeping it straight.

gulfairs