Sky Demon & iPad. Successes, not grumbles.

[300hrWannaB]

Tips, suggestions, hardware, and good ideas.

(I'm a Neanderthal with paper maps, string and a whiz wheel. Give me leeway)

[foxmoth]

So do you have an iPad/tablet or what? If not then you need some sort of tablet - it will run on a phone but most are a bit small. You can either get an ipad/tablet with gps already in (the ipads with 3G have this) or you can use an external GPS such as the Garmin Glo - if you have a Dynon in the aircraft you can also tether it to the GPS from that.

[ETOPS]

I use a basic 32GB iPad with WiFi (so no sim card fitted). For the GPS information I have a seperate "Bad Elf" GPS receiver that connects to the iPad via Bluetooth.

This all works so well that I now will only fly with it - not for navigation per se but the airspace warnings/notams etc. I still use traditional map and flight log methods but also keep an eye on the Skydemon to see that I am following my preplanned route. If weather forces a diversion from that line the airspace warning function gives me a few minutes assess if I am potentially heading for an infringement.

All of this whilst keeping a "hawk like" look out for other traffic - before you mention "head down" guys :ok:

Used properly Skydemon is very useful and I would recommend trying it.

[kestrel539]

Nexus, sub £100 from Argos. Load Skydemon...faultless.
You will need to get a 3rd party mount.

[Zaphod the 0th]

No problems whatsoever in about 3 years of Skydemoning! iPad Mini 2, wifi only so external Bluetooth GPS (one of the GNS ones, can't remember exact model number), and an A5-sized kneeboard that has the iPad inside, and a standard clipboard on the outside (for paper plog, notes etc). That way, it stops the "magenta line hugging" issues, as I have to actively open the kneeboard to look at Skydemon.

I've never once had an overheating issue, and with external GPS the iPad battery lasts for about 5 - 6 hours on Bluetooth. Only had one or two GPS drop-outs mid-flight in those three years, with the GPS unit buried in my bag in the back of the plane.

[Johnm]

I have a fully booted and spurred iPad mini that fits in a yoke mount. It has 4G and built in GPS so as to avoid multi boxes, but that's just my choice. It is possible to buy an Android tablet cheaper which will work just as well

I plan all flights on Skydemon both IFR and VFR though use additional tools for IFR routing. If I plan on PC I save the route to the cloud so as to be able to load it seamlessly onto the tablet.

When I start taxi I tap "go flying" on the iPad and follow the map and/or magenta line to shut down. VFR I tend to fly a route offset slightly from the magenta line.

I also have to put the plan into the built in IFR GPS so as to be able to drive the autopilot and fly approaches etc. But Skydemon on iPad is now my primary navigation tool.

[foxmoth]

Nexus, sub £100 from Argos. Load Skydemon...faultless.


I did not think the Nexus had a GPS fit?

[mustbeaboeing]

Hi. If you have access to a so called 'smart phone' I would suggest you download the free 30 DAY trial and see if you like it first. You can see what it does whilst in car / bus / train etc.

I liked it so much I then bought a iPad mini and the full package.

Initially I used a home made knee pad. Small piece of hardboard and Velcro strap.

I found I was looking too much at it for my own comfort, so covered it up with my map, and only referred to the Sky Demon when I wished to zoom in on somewhere.

Nowadays I have dispensed with the knee pad (good job I didn't buy one as they can be rather expensive for what they are) and keep the iPad in the side pocket and only refer to it occasionally and as a time / flight recorder.

But all in all, an excellent product in my view.

[DaveW]

foxmoth, they definitely do. I have this one (http://www.argos.co.uk/static/Product/partNumber/1388381.htm) and it has been faultless.

[Flyingmac]

I have one of these. Also faultless. Nexus 7 is a branded Asus.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/ASUS-ME173X-1B018A-MTK8125-Processor-Bluetooth/dp/B00GNY1ZLA/ref=sr_1_4?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1464186260&sr=1-4&keywords=asus+7+inch+me173x

[300hrWannaB]

No, I don't have an I-pad or similar. The wife and kids do, but I'd have more of a chance of stealing their chocolate than borrowing an I-pad. I've been using company supplied laptop until now, but it is time to make a clean break.

[Bobby Hart]

(I work for SkyDemon)


in addition to the 30 day trial, it would be a good call to have a look at the little tutorial videos on the SkyDemon website and linked to from within the Help section of the SkyDemon app. Great for getting a starting overview and basic how-to.


Have a chat to other pilots at the club and see what kind of devices they use, since direct feedback about niggles are very useful... Most chaps are more than happy to talk about their experiences, and may even be able to ward you off tablets that have let them down in the past. Typically iPads are more stable and reliable, but if cost is a major factor then focus on android - though bear in mind that for exceedingly cheap android devices you can see wild variations in build quality...

[300hrWannaB]

I see a bit of talk about Sky Demon Light, is this the same as the 30 day trial version?
I've also heard several people say that they have loaded the 30 day trial version, but once flying it has all frozen up after 30 minutes from switching on.

Truth or rumour?

[DaveW]

I see a bit of talk about Sky Demon Light, is this the same as the 30 day trial version?

No.

SkyDemon Light (http://www.skydemonlight.com/) is a browser-based service whereas the trial is just that - a trial (http://www.skydemon.aero/start/default.aspx) of the full product.

I've also heard several people say that they have loaded the 30 day trial version, but once flying it has all frozen up after 30 minutes from switching on.

Truth or rumour?

D'you know what? If I was going to use a system in anger (and in flight) I'd probably think it a good idea to do a bit of basic research (http://www.skydemon.aero/start/default.aspx) before I got airborne. Call me old-fashioned.

What are the restrictions?
Unfortunately we have to restrict some of the functionality of the free trial, for security purposes (because we don't know enough about you) and to protect our system from abuse. The restrictions are:

You cannot use SkyDemon as your in-flight GPS for more than 30 minutes at a time, after which you must wait 10 minutes to use it again.
...
MORE


(I have nothing to do with SkyDemon other than being a satisfied customer)

[Bobby Hart]

(Rob from SkyDemon)


Yup, the 30 day free trial has very few limitations to it, but the key one to note is that nav mode works for 30 minutes and then stops for at least 10. We do pop up a little message confirming this fact at the point the pilot presses "Go Flying" in addition to spelling it out on the website.


The simulator function is time-unlimited though, and that is probably more suited to giving a feel for how the software will behave inflight; the aircraft symbol will attempt to take off and follow the planned route, generating all the warnings you would expect. You can drag the aircraft around with your finger to prompt warnings and get an idea how they all work, and even "Spawn Aircraft" at specific points so as to see how the traffic warnings will appear without needing to get into a collision situation yourself


SkyDemon Light, by comparison, has no nav functions inherent and quite a lot of the regular planning functions from our "full fat" product are simply absent - its only really a very basic planning and NOTAM visualisation tool; hard to beat on price though :)

[300hrWannaB]

Thanks guys for helping with my bit of basic research before buying.
As you may gather, I'm not what the gadget geeks call an "early adopter".

[Bobby Hart]

Fear not 300hr, since one benefit of being late to the party means that there are plenty of people who you can ask about such things... Being an early adopter means making trial and error mistakes for others to learn from.


The best suggestion I can make is to not buy too cheap a device to start with. There are some very cheap android devices out there, but build quality can vary quite wildly; I know some chaps who went through 3-4 cheap tablets before landing on their ultimate choice, and probably spent much more money in the process... you may consider going straight to the more expensive but more robust iPad to avoid such false economy.


Bear in mind though, that once you choose Apple or Android you will start to accumulate apps that can then (mostly) only be used on your chosen platform, and you will get used to the quirks of your operating system of choice, so it can be hard to make the switch later...

[cjm_2010]

I've flown using SkyDemon twice now - my first two flights after completing my NPPL (M).

The first time on my galaxy S6 was so impressive that I went out & bought an Ipad Mini 4, an appropriate kneeboard, and the garmin GLO dongle.

It really is absolutely awesome. My only issue is that it feels like cheating...

[MarcusH]

Sky Demon from my point of view is a superb product. I know that a lot of older pilots don't like it but I do, it gives me a level of accuracy I could only dream of without GPS etc. I use a samsung Galaxy in a mount in the cockpit I also have my iPhone that can act as a backup. I can read Notams, get the weather etc. I can imagine that there are lots of different tweaks that they are working on at the moment because they seem to think of everything.
I recently flew from Slovenia to Dublin, not one leg worked out as we had anticipated due mainly to weather. As a result we were planning routes in minutes that would have taken us many hours to plan without SkyDemon. In fact I don't think I would go flying without it.
One word of cation, I have been let down by a Garmin Glo that I used to use in the past, this was a non event as I was flying in more familiar surroundings at the time, but If I lost my GPS over somewhere like the south east of the UK I think I would just land the aircraft.

[300hrWannaB]

OK, so I'm now sold on getting an iPad2. I gather that an external GPS is pretty much a given requirement. Options appear to be a Bad Elf plug in device at £100 but with a risk that the plugging in feature will eventually create a bad contact for the interface. Or a Garmin Glo that communicates via Bluetooth. I have actually heard of Bluetooth.

Another thing that popped up in discussion was "retina" display. I thought this was just a batter screen, but it seems that it represents the difference between the dinosaur technology of the iPad2 and the current technology of the iPad 2. Confused? Me too.

[Jonzarno]

@300

I use an iPad Air 2 with no external GPS and it works perfectly.

[velo84]

If you're going to use an iPad for Skydemon, make sure you buy the cellular model (3G/4G) because the normal wireless models don't have the GPS chip built in so you will have to buy a external GPS unit (bluetooth or plugin direct to the iPad) to be able to use Skydemon. I find this a pain for a few reasons 1) if it's a Bluetooth GPS unit then it's just another thing you need to make sure is charged 2) it's more clutter. 3) If you buy the GPS unit that plugs directly into the bottom of the iPad it gets in the way and can easily be bumped and damage the connector (as mentioned by a previous poster) It's actually also really handy to have the cellular model because you can buy a £5 month data only sim card and pop it in there and you will have instant TAF/METAR and NOTAM updates and you can also access your routes from the cloud without having to be on the wireless. This has proved immensely useful for me. I'm using the Ipad mini 4 and it's the perfect size for the cockpit.

[londonblue]

I use a 2nd hand Samsung Tab 4 with an 8" screen. It is perfectly ok, and only cost £80. It also doesn't need an external GPS receiver, and doesn't have retina display.

Before I used SkyDemon I would plan a flight the night before to save time. On the day I would then only need to add in the wind and calculate. I would then re-read the notams and weather just in case. With SkyDemon I do the whole lot in about 15 minutes on my computer, and then save it to the cloud.

cjm, I completely understand how you feel you're cheating, and so do I. After all planning a flight shouldn't be that quick and easy should it?

I also make a point of retrieving the saved plan to my tablet before I leave home, so that I can also download the aerodrome plates, including any alternates just in case. Of course I could do all of that at the aerodrome using their WiFi, but I just prefer to do it at home just in case the aerodrome WiFi isn't working.

[cjm_2010]

cjm, I completely understand how you feel you're cheating, and so do I. After all planning a flight shouldn't be that quick and easy should it?

It shouldn't :D!

The CFI at the club I did most of my training at gave me a mission for my first flight as a qualified pilot just over a fortnight ago - fly to Enstone & back (from Membury) via the Brize CTR, as an opportunity to practice RT.

Skydemon gave me instant situational awareness - I had the half mill chart on board with the track lines drawn, but with a gps moving map I could tell exactly where I was.

Coming back I had to ask for a low level crossing due to cloud & was cleared via a specific route that would have taken me a little while to work out on the paper chart. It reduced the workload to the point where I could feel confident with looking out, flying the aircraft, and the RT, unstressed. I intend to carry on marking routes on the paper chart & maybe deliberately shutting my kneeboard so I have to go old school; but it's so re-assuring to know I can ascertain where I am with little doubt should I need to.

[londonblue]

I also mark up my map and keep that with me. I also print off the SkyDemon map, along with the plog etc...