Stansted CLN and DET SIDs

[Mikehotel152]

I was wondering whether the dropping of DET SIDs out of STN in favour of more CLN SIDs and vectoring has caused London controllers a few headaches?

The dogleg route from STN to DET and out into Kent seems to have been replaced by a route out to CLN and a vectored 90 degree turn and a dogsleg south into the Thames Estuary before an easterly turn.

Personally, I've had a number of 'Traffic Traffic' alerts on these new routings as incoming traffic heading into the North Sea is spliced with outgoing. Colleagues have experienced a similar trend.

As always ATC are doing an admirable job but I'm curious as to their thoughts and experiences.

[zonoma]

incoming traffic heading into the North Sea
Most likely the traffic is Heathrow inbound traffic heading toward LAM.

The change is part of a large airspace change that has introduced point merge at London City and is deemed to be "progress". There are limited threads discussing the changes both new airspace introduced (http://www.pprune.org/atc-issues/574193-new-nats-airspace-change-tonight.html) and London City point merge (http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/574252-eglc-point-merge.html). It has been claimed to be a "success", and now there are plans being discussed to try and "improve it".

It will be an "interesting" summer.

EDITED TO ADD: When the airspace was first designed it had in mind two further major airspace upgrades that sandwiched the transition altitude being raised almost European-wide to 18,000ft. This first implementation was simply the "base-plate" for the further developments, all of which have been scrapped and are currently being redesigned with no due date.

[Nimmer]

There is no-redesign in progress, this is it!!! I believe there is a "tiger team" to solve the issues that this "first" phase (only), of LAMP has caused.

The issues of course would not have occurred had nothing been implemented, as suggested by the design team, but who listens to the controllers???

[The Many Tentacles]

I think they've learnt a little bit judging by the formation of the Generic Core Team in AC to start looking at the next round of projects - at least the controllers are coming on board at the beginning rather than towards the end

[Jwscud]

I don't know how it works regarding fuel, but my experience wrt TAs is the same as MikeHotel152.

I guess the lack of a long level segment at FL70 is better for fuel as it seems we now only occasionally level off in the high teens as the controller finds a gap in the Heathrow inbounds to slip us through.

[zonoma]

There is no-redesign in progress, this is it!!!
Not quite, the planned binned projects are being looked at to see which bits could be of benefit and what else will need redesigning to bring it all in. Plus, the CAA are STILL consulting whether to enforce a TA of 18,000ft which may change the direction of many future plans instantly!

[good egg]

The simplest analogy I can think of is that it's difficult to win a football match when the goals are constantly moving (and changing shape for that matter!).
The aim of course remains to score more goals than you concede.

[ZOOKER]

Nimmer,
"Tiger Team"........Is that more management BS-type phraseology?

[Mikehotel152]

I appreciate airspace changes are highly complicated to organise and there will be a teething period because of knock-on effects right across the UK and abroad, however, from a pilot's point of view I was wondering about the practical side of things.

Is the new system easier or more demanding for controllers? On the flight deck it seems to have led to more vectoring (i.e. more work) albeit this is done over the North Sea.

[zonoma]

Is the new system easier or more demanding for controllers?
It is not as simple as that. Some controllers are certainly working "harder" especially as they are learning new tasks but others have had their tasks reduced. If there is an overall improvement where by more traffic can be moved in a safe manner then the company as a whole benefits, which are now drivers for changes.

[londonatc]

I'm valid on the particular sector in question (where we have to cross the DVR departures with the LL inbounds) and i can tell you its much much much busier and more complicated with the new procedures than it was before!

[terrain safe]

Hence all the lovely MDIs.

[Nimmer]

London ATCO, quick question do you think your training was adequate for the complex new airspace.

Hear the can of worms opening!!!