View Full Version : Air Atlanta Beware!!!!
saddest aviator
27th Jun 2002, 19:27
Had a good friend on the phone to me today who has now had his contract terminated by Air Atlanta the reasons they gave him were that he made unreasonable demands .
1.He wanted to be paid on time.
2. He wanted to be able to tell his wife where he was going to be in the world in the next 24 hrs
3. He also wanted to know when his days off might be so that he might just be able to spend some time with his nearest and dearest.
4. He didnt expect to be told that he could'nt go home on days off because the company might need him.
5. HE THEN OF COURSE EXPECTED FOR HIS CONTRACT TO BE TERMINATED WHEN HE REFUSED TO OPERATE AN AIRCRAFT WITH A TECHNICAL PROBLEM OUTSIDE THE RELIEF ACCORDED BY THE MEL.
I suggested to him that this is a company that is sailing very close to the wind and that he was better of out !
Incidentally my commercial flying days are now over . It is a sad inditement on our industry that it seems the very excesses of the less professional 3rd world operators are now percolating through to europe.
JW411
27th Jun 2002, 19:40
Sounds to me that at least one early-retiring Big Airways chap who thought that he could carry on as if nothing had changed has just discovered reality!
Welcome to the world.
JW411
27th Jun 2002, 19:45
saddest aviator:
The word you were striving for was indictment not inditement.
Flintstone
27th Jun 2002, 19:52
So JW, what have you got against saddest aviator?
Bit harsh on him, aren't you?
saddest aviator
27th Jun 2002, 20:06
Sorry JW Spelling has never been my strong point.
However please heed the warning! Just for info not a Big Airways type either just someone who realised long ago flying aeroplanes is just a job like any other. If as an airline pilot you think you are special think again .To the bean counter you are just a bus driver
Hand Solo
27th Jun 2002, 23:01
JW411 makes little attempt to disguise his contempt for BA crews and rarely lets facts get in the way of his opinions. He, presumably, would be more than happy to operate an aircraft outside the remit of the MEL, unlike those fussy old BA types.
downfourgreen
27th Jun 2002, 23:10
saddest aviator,
Which 3rd world country is your source of information for your post or you're just guessing?
Thanks.
Nothing new really...
It was not but for a very good reason that AirAtlanta was grounded in 1998....nothing has changed...and not likely too either.
The latest seems to be "outdated data bases in the 767 FMS's...as reported on PPRuNe earlier.
Roger de Rofton
28th Jun 2002, 07:45
A good friend of mine once flew for Air Atlanta, he left very quickly and the stories..........
RdR;)
JW411
28th Jun 2002, 08:46
Hand Solo:
I most certainly would not operate an aircraft outwith the remit of the MEL and it is a pretty serious allegation for you to suggest that I might.
I have however on several occasions in the past been asked to "bend the rules a bit". My usual response to this is to tell them that I am going to call the CAA (or whichever regulatory body is responsible) to seek their advice on how to interpret the rules. That usually does the trick!
What sounded familiar to me was not getting paid on time (or at all), my wife having no idea where I am, being asked to work on days off, short notice flights, lack of rosters etc etc. I have been on the receiving end of all of those!
rupetime
28th Jun 2002, 09:20
Dear Saddest, Dear dear saddest
Since when can Iceland really be referred to as a 3rd world operator, having worked with Icelandic airlines in the past I think you will find they can be as highly regarded (if not more so) as
other operators.
Dont forget many of the European (3rd world!) airlines you talk about were operating to JAA ops rules long before UK carriers could make it in.
and finally.....regarding the grounding incident in 1998, this was created by a disgruntled ex-employee - i think many ex-employee's could ground any airline with enough knowledge.
rt
Skunkworks
28th Jun 2002, 11:05
saddest aviator:
The word you were striving for was indictment not inditement.
JW411, I bet you're a lot of fun to fly with... Why dont you sign up for Spelling Bee, or keep your comments to the issue thats being discussed!
Cathar
28th Jun 2002, 18:14
Unless there was an incident of which I am unaware, Air Atlanta were not grounded in 1998. What happened, if I recall correctly, was that the CAA briefly revoked the approval given to several UK airlines to wet lease aircraft from Air Atlanta.
Flight Detent
28th Jun 2002, 19:01
Good day all,
My only response to all this is as follows,
I have been flying with Air Atlanta now for around four years, we have certainly had our differences over that time, as I have had with any/all of my prior airlines, and about much the same things!
I have never ever been paid late, though we have certainly had some discussion regarding quantity, but, of course, that was with the crewing agent, not with AAI.
I am a flight crew member, ex air force, and can say with determined accuracy, I have never, nor will ever, operate an aircraft outside the laid down rules, and have delayed several departures over the years, some in relatively remote areas, to satisfy me, or to get the problem solved, and that situation will remain so long as I have my reputation and my licence to protect!!
AAI are certainly not perfect, but they can be regarded as a reliable, stable lease airline, and their performance over the last few years, generally speaking, shows that.
We, as contract employees, continue to strive for a better operation, and that is in the best interest of all concerned, we originate from airlines all over the world, and that is good for the company.
There are some really good people here, who like to live/work in these contract type airlines.
Cheers!
fantom
28th Jun 2002, 19:03
flight detent...email me (this is my last try).........
:(
18-Wheeler
29th Jun 2002, 05:50
Cathar - Correct.
Also have to agree with Flight Detent - I've been flying with them for two years and I have the same experience. I quite like working for them, and am happy to stay where I am.
126.9
29th Jun 2002, 09:42
Anyone who has had anything to do with AAI would know that they are cutting corners, bending the rules and flying some pretty dubious equipment! The Icelandic CAA do cast a blind eye, but hey; lets face it, they don't have too many sources of income on that ice block of theirs now do they? I'd still like to know how it is that they actually renew validations of non-JAA licence holders. All other states stick to the 12 month rule laid down in the JAR-FCL.
I'm sick to bits of their manipulation of the law as well as their grab-the-money-and-run policies. It is about time that the real aviation authorities of Europe took hold of them.
18-Wheeler
29th Jun 2002, 12:29
"... are cutting corners, bending the rules and flying some pretty dubious equipment!"
I haven't seen this in the two years I've been with them.
True enough they make mistakes, but by & large everyone puts in the effort to make it all work as planned.
Rusty A300
29th Jun 2002, 18:59
Clearly you're related to the Ostrich! Only the Ostrich buries his head in the sand!
I spent 4 years with them. If you, after 2 years haven't seen what is being spoken about here, then either you don't know better, or you should pull your head out for some air!
Seriph
29th Jun 2002, 23:01
Give the guy a break Rusty, it apparently took you 4 yrs to 'see the light' he's only been there 2. If things were so bad why 4 yrs?
18-Wheeler
30th Jun 2002, 03:43
*shrug*, yeah whatever.
Looks like they've lifted their game then.
Roger de Rofton
30th Jun 2002, 06:48
Cathar,
No they weren't grounded. As I recall they were just banned from operating in UK airspace for a while til they sorted their act out. Something to do with maint paperwork I believe.
Happy to be corrected by someone who knows better!
RdR
Rusty A300
30th Jun 2002, 08:58
Why 4 years? Because I had to find another job before leaving...? Uh duh! Because when you work for a cr@ppy outfit, you still try and make it work...? Because I'm not a bleedin' job-hopper...? Because I've got a family to feed...? Want a few more?
As for: Give the guy a break Rusty I think you'll find I merely commented on his inaccurate quote!
Furthermore: I've not seen one person here dispute their manipulation of the JAR-FCL to suit themselves. Any of you flying at AAI; each time you go to work, ask your colleagues what licences they hold. Even better, take a look!
Flight Detent
30th Jun 2002, 15:00
Seems like you have the same basic interests as most other folk, family, stability, income, maybe we have a lot more in common than you think!
My last airline collapsed overnight, with no warning at all, due to a military coupe whilst I was on layover, so don't you tell me about job searching and trying to maintain a stable lifestyle!!!
Pull you head in and mind your own damn business - nothing you have said is of any significance, or has any substance other than your say-so!
I have been spending the past many months trying to move on, I'm not blind, as you suggest, but you may have noticed, there is not much about!
Do you think I like to be based in places like Algeria, Lagos, Casablanca, Jeddah, so pull your head in unless you have something constructive to offer.
Cheers.
Hmm, seems Flight Detent is NOT a happy camper.
I personally know of two previous crew members that had to go to Iceland (on their own dime) to collect their end of contract pay, never mind the fact that it was always late during the contract.
18-Wheeler
1st Jul 2002, 11:54
Stop distorting the facts, 411A.
I've seen much the same thing, but the dispute is with the contracting companies - I've never ever seen AAI not pay anyone nor be late with payment.
The contracting companies are a rather different story though!
If AAI were like that, then it's ancient history.
Knowing your huge bias against AAI, I suspect that the people you mention were Icelandic and were going home anyway, but you just forgot to mention that ...
You can come up with some good posts, yet you have to post trash like that ... ????
Not Icelandic, 18-Wheeler, one from the USA, the other UK.
The only contractor that paid on time was Direct in Dublin...ACE was another story indeed.
May I just add, from a different and unbiased point of view, that Air Atlanta is one of the worst operaters I have seen in over 20 years in the business.
The different point of view I mention is their maintenance. For example, did you know that they are now operating their 747s (for Virgin) out of Manchester with their engineers working 16 days on 16 off 12 hour shifts!
I do not work for them, never have but when one hears(knows) these things it does make one think!!!
Did someone mention fatigue???? :rolleyes:
18-Wheeler
2nd Jul 2002, 00:08
Fair 'nuff, 411A. That may well have been the case when you were there, but in recent times Direct has been involved in a few problems that really shouldn't be necessary.
I know of a couple of aircrew that haven't been paid by them, yet AAI have certainly paid Direct.
Can't comment on ACE, but I haven't heard of any problems of late from them.
I'll agree that they could do with a bigger engeering workforce though, and the ground chaps do put in some very long hours indeed.
Part of that problem is the very nature of AAI's work, ie, contractural. It's very difficult to keep a constant number of staff, so they have to often rapidly expand & contract numbers, so pretty much everyone can and is faced with an uncertain period of work & leisure. Makes it hard for a lot of people to hang around, and understandably so.
It suits me as I'm not attached and have no real committments, but of course many other people require more stable employment.
Benny7601
17th Jul 2002, 01:29
:) :p Saddest Aviator,
Before you complain about something, you should experience it yourself first! I aggree with Flight Detent who said it all right. I had spent four years in AAI and only finished when some idiot crashed into the World Towers.
Before AAI I had only 2 jobs in 40 years, both lasting 20 years each. I joined AAI because I wasn't ready to stop flying. I found AAI to be a great company who doesn't fly outside the internationally required regulations. If your friend was fired, he was fired for good reason and not for what he said to you.
You should investigate claims before you castigate an airline that does a great job in the market it operates.
Benny7601