Cloud break at Luton or Stansted?

[hegemon88]

Hi everyone,


Has any of you got any experience with requesting a cloud break using the approach procedure at Luton or Stansted when flying IFR OCAS? Stansted is probably out of the question due traffic but I wondered if Luton could allow an approach on their ILS to break cloud and then continue VFR to a nearby destination? Or is there any way of contacting the Luton Radar people by phone to ask in advance?






/h88

[Baikonour]

I'd be keen to hear people's answers, but in the meantime I'd suggest that Cranfield may be a friendlier place, probably cheaper and not much further away....

B.

[Gertrude the Wombat]

Or Cambridge.

[Jetblu]

I use Southend every time. [in that neck of the woods]

[Genghis the Engineer]

Luton and Stansted are hellishly busy and I imagine would not particularly appreciate you.

Cranfield is straightforward and will bill you £15 or thereabouts. I'm sure that Southend and Cambridge will be something similar, depending upon the direction you're coming from.

G

[The Ancient Geek]

If you are going all the way to Southend you might as well just let down over the sea. Avoiding the wind turbines of course, anywhere else should be clear down to 500 feet on the nearest QNH.

In reality you will almost certainly pick somewhere closest to your destination.

[piperboy84]

Don't you have military fields with ILS's in that part of the country that you can ride down for free ?

[Pace]

Luton has a stream of jets. having flown in there numerous times separation is a big thing on the STAR and you will be requested numerous times to adjust speed between yourself and other Jets

Other than in an emergency I don't think you would be very welcome flying down the approach at 80 to 100 KTS especially with no intention of landing there

Didn't used to be that way as I can remember Donkeys years ago flying with mates into Manchester, Parking the PA28 on a the main apron alongside a 757 and going up into the terminal for a coffee

The same with Luton where you taxied around the perimeter track to the flying club

Oh those days of freedom and multiple airfields around the UK most closed, turned into housing estates or car parking areas

[hegemon88]

Thank you for all the replies.


Yes, Cranfield, Cambridge and Southend are all viable options, I have used Southend in the past. I guess I was a bit lazy and wanted to consider options closer to the destination, but you're right - it may be very difficult and simply impossible due IFR-IFR separation requirements.

Thanks again,

/h88

[Jetblu]

Pace

"Didn't used to be that way as I can remember Donkeys years ago flying with mates into Manchester, Parking the PA28 on a the main apron alongside a 757 and going up into the terminal for a coffee"


Ditto for Stansted. I met a Air UK stewardess [who later became a long time girlfriend] in the cafeteria of the old terminal, with my C177RG parked outside the window. Landing fee £12.00 Happy days. :)

[Pace]

Jetblu

Yes it was worlds apart from aviation today when you were welcome anywhere also the time when on holiday flights in the cruise the Captain invited kids ( Me ))) fending off the shorter variety in a stampede to the cockpit

Even had a flight where a friend worked for airline XYZ and flying from Italy to London my name was called before start and I spent the whole flight start to end in the jump seat

I also remember going to Cosford airshow plonking myself in a field at the end of the runway with hundreds of others and feeling the ground shake as a Vulcan bomber past 50 feet above our heads

Happy days and true freedom not like now when we have never been less free and so risk averse

[flybymike]

Must be at least 20 years since I heard the words "Air UK."

Heady days......

[Gertrude the Wombat]

Ditto for Stansted. I met a Air UK stewardess [who later became a long time girlfriend] in the cafeteria of the old terminal, with my C177RG parked outside the window. Landing fee £12.00 Happy days. :)
The old terminal worked better for airline passengers too - I think my record for wheels touching tarmac to sitting in my car was eight minutes. Which included going to the loo and pickup up my checked bag. (And because I'd delayed things by going to the loo the staff were following me out of the terminal locking each door behind me, as there were no more flights that day.)


It all started going downhill at Stansted when they put the parking charge up from 20p to 60p. That wasn't per hour, or per day, that was a fixed price for as long as you liked.

[Jetblu]

"Heady days......"

They were indeed. Nothing wrong with that ;)

[Gertrude the Wombat]

Must be at least 20 years since I heard the words "Air UK."
Ah yes, the baked beans ...


Paraphrased only slightly, from the in flight magazine;


"OK, so the baked beans in the breakfast were only ever intended as a joke, and when we decided to start acting like a grown-up airline we dropped them.


"However the complaints from our regular customers were such that we've now reinstated them."


More Air UK humour: on landing at Stansted in typical English endless grey drizzle: "Welcome to Honolulu".

[TheOddOne]

Aaaah yes,

The Flying Toothpaste Tube...

TOO

[alex90]

It makes me feel sad to know that those days are gone in the UK... I didn't live through them, but they sound like bliss! Back in the days when you didn't need to book PPR at every single airfield you intended to land in, when you didn't need to plan journeys on the cost of the landing fee or cost of fuel, but more because of the great cafe or pub there...

I have found that flying in France still gives you to some extent this freedom which has been stripped from most of the UK. (exception is the Paris area which is so busy & the controllers often get annoyed with us Brits wanting to speak English below TMA).

When I first started flying to/in France, I called all the airfields requesting PPR (being so used to doing this in the UK) and their answer often seem to be "why are you calling me? Yes, we have a runway, we even have a parking area, we have coffee, and during opening hours we sometimes sell ice creams..." I then answer "Do you need any details from me?" The response has almost always been "Why would I need details from you? Are you planning on parking permanently?". The few times they have requested for information, they always end the call by saying "oh - so you're not a commercial operator?" thinking I wanted to bring 20+ passengers to the airport. I picture them striking all the details I gave them!

Why has the UK become so... over-protective... so... over-cautious... so business driven that the friendliness has gone?

[Genghis the Engineer]

Alex - get yourself a microlight, and join a microlight club. Those days still exist in a parallel sub473kg universe near you.

G

[The Ancient Geek]

Blame our wonderful CAA for the PPR fiasco.
It is illegal to land at any airfield without the owner's permission exept in an emergency
Daft regulations R US

There is, of course, no reason why an owner should not issue a blanket permission for any suitable aircraft but ......

[Jetblu]

Going back to the OP, remember that Stapleford EGSG do have an unpublished procedure.

I've used it many times when Southend's ILS was not needed.

[alex90]

Jetblu,

I've always been very sceptical at following "unpublished approaches" I've read enough reports of crashes whilst people try to fly "unpublished approaches" in below VFR minima conditions.

h88 - it depends where you're going. I know Northolt provide this service, and it being free of charge (at least it was a year ago). In that neck of the woods you also have: Oxford, Brize, Benson, Farnborough who will also gladly help you. If you're in trouble and you find your airfield is under minima, I would consider diverting to Southend because I like the place, call me bias though but Biggin Hill is one of the few places left where if the airport is below VFR minima (which I think they say is less than 5km visibility and cloud at or below 1000ft above the runway), they don't actually charge you the ILS fee. [plus its super easy - talk to Thames Radar, they give you vectors then finish the approach with tower / approach]

GTE - I have thought about that for a while - cheaper to fly, maybe even a little more fun! But I quite like flying longer distances, and being able to fly IFR when required (which correct me if I am wrong but I don't think you can do in a microlight?).

Hope this helps!

[Private jet]

Why has the UK become so... over-protective... so... over-cautious... so business driven that the friendliness has gone?

Creates jobs for 2nd rate lawyers; "Where there's blame there's a claim" and all that...

[hegemon88]

Going back to the OP, remember that Stapleford EGSG do have an unpublished procedure.

I've used it many times when Southend's ILS was not needed.


Yes, they do, I know... I got both my PPL(A) and my IR(R) at Stapleford. And on a single occasion when I tried to use the VOR procedure to descend to circuit height in solid IMC, my instructor told me off.


Southend generally works well, it's on the wrong side of Stapleford when arriving from the West, so I was curious about any chances with Luton or Stansted. Like I said in the posts above, I'm lazy.


On the day in question, the weather was solid VFR, though, so I managed without any approaches. And chased some orange tails crossing the Luton CTR.




/h88

[Genghis the Engineer]

GTE - I have thought about that for a while - cheaper to fly, maybe even a little more fun! But I quite like flying longer distances, and being able to fly IFR when required (which correct me if I am wrong but I don't think you can do in a microlight?).

Long distances yes, fun in spades - but not IFR I'm afraid.

On the other hand, any microlight should trim safely down to 45kts if you need to - which gets you nowhere very quickly, but is a lot more comfortable in marginal visibility than light aircraft speeds. Most will also land in cowfields and on beaches , and fly off them again, with minimal aggro. It's just another sort of flying really.

G