IR(R) old IMC renewal

[grahamb53]

Once again I am approaching renewal time for my IR(R) and I would appreciate the views of the PPRune community on the question of which instruments one can use during a renewal flight test.

Like most people I did my initial training in an aircraft with a fairly basic fit. Since then I now fly an aircraft with a GNS430 and an autopilot as well as a second nav unit, DME and ADF. In my training flying the needles and navigation etc was all hand flying, now with all the other wonder kit taking a sneaky peek at the GPS screen will be very tempting.

My question is really how much can one use the equipment INSTALLED in an aircraft when on test (e.g not any hand held gps etc). Can I use the autopilot to hold track and height, can I use the GPS to navigate to the approach.

I have had some variance of views from a couple of instructors and thought the PPRuner's may help. You thoughts please...

[alex90]

My view is that if the kit is installed, and if it's working - then why not make good use of it?

With the GNS430 you can load in STARS, you can preload the frequencies you need very easily, you can get very accurate estimates and with the coupled autopilot you can make the plane follow the magenta line all way to the intercept of whichever approach you are doing. I think that it is very useful to know how to set it all up and how it all works. If you have a WAAS version you can even make it do the whole approach to minima (which is pretty cool).

With the increased use of GNSS approach procedures in Europe I think if anything - it is absolutely necessary to at least have a good understanding of the stuff you carry everywhere with you!

I don't think that it should REPLACE standard hand-flying, and I don't think that it would be right to ONLY do everything with the kit installed. I would strongly recommend that you still maintain and polish your hand flying skills, and the old steam gauges.

In my mind there is more good than harm to understand and use the kit you fly with everywhere! It may even make your VFR flights easier!

Hope this helps,
Alex

[Gertrude the Wombat]

I don't think that it should REPLACE standard hand-flying, and I don't think that it would be right to ONLY do everything with the kit installed. I would strongly recommend that you still maintain and polish your hand flying skills, and the old steam gauges.
Doesn't the recovery-from-unusual-attitudes-on-partial-panel part of the test still have to be performed on steam gauges, even if you do the rest of the test with glass?


(And how, I wonder, does that rule fit in with some other rule an examiner thought he remembered that the entire test has to be passed in a single flight?)

[alexbrett]

When I did my initial IMC / IR(R) test the examiner told me I could use any equipment in the aircraft including an autopilot, with the only exceptions being I couldn't do a coupled approach (we were doing an ILS), and had I had eg a Cirrus (I wish!) with the blue button I couldn't use that to recover during the unusual attitudes etc...

[foxmoth]

Get up to speed with what is fitted (outside the test you should be up to speed with it anyway) and be guided by the examiner for the test, dont be afraid to ask if he does not cover it in the briefing.

[grahamb53]

Helpful views, although I can use the kit I was just concerned that on test I would be like a kid at Christmas allowed to look at all the toys but not allowed to play with them. Good advice to ask the examiner thought. Thanks

[BEagle]

See CAP 804 Part II section 5 part E page 5 para 2.6.

Amongst other details, para 2.6.1 states:

Item b) may be flown using any standby instrument system fitted to the aeroplane used for the test, simulating failure of the primary pitch, bank and direction indicating systems.

This change was proposed by AOPA and accepted by the CAA. It means that unusual attitude recoveries etc. may be flown using whatever back-up instrument system is fitted to your aeroplane. So there's no longer any need to hunt out some piece of rental wreckage fitted with a turn and slip.

IR(R) tests require that the candidate 'must demonstrate satisfactory manual instrument flying capability', so any use of an autopilot would be very limited, if indeed allowed at all.

[flyme273]

In my experience, the examiner would accept the aircraft you normally use and its associated equipment. The examiner can always cover an instrument (or sim failure) if he considers the test requires.

e.g. if it has an HSI, RMI - I've never heard of a requirement to rent a less well equipped aircraft?

However, I would not expect to use the autopilot.

flyme.

[grahamb53]

Thanks folks, in respect of the mention of the auto pilot I was sort of "flying a kite" as even I thought that may have been going too far!

[foxmoth]

Again, ask the examiner, he may allow it for a short period for things like sorting approach charts.

[arelix]

The other way of looking at (which is how it's done in the commercial world in my experience) is to operate the aircraft and it's equipment as you would normally.
However, you can expect some "equipment failures":)

[hegemon88]

I had my first IR(R) renewal 2 days ago. PA28 with GTN650 fitted but no ADF. I flew an ILS followed by the RNAV approach to minima. I used the raw data* displayed on the GTN650 quite extensively and was praised for that rather than told off.

* track, desired track, cross-track error and the like

It all depends on the examiner, I think (within reason and bounds of CAP804 I hasten to add). Please PM me if you want me to recommend you mine :cool:



/h88