how to buy an aircraft?

[rmdr2]

Hi all

I am looking for advice on 'how to buy an aircraft'. Clearly, a very big topic, with no simple answer.... but any gems of advice gratefully received.

My research on the choice of aircraft is well progressed.... a short-field load-lifter, so something like a C206/C210/PA32

My question is more about how one actually goes about safely buying the aircraft, i.e., is there an idiots guide?

(i) Pre-purchase inspections - who can be trusted to do them? Surely the quality of the pre-purchase inspection is a function of the individual performing it. Can anyone recommend specialists on C206/C210/PA32's? Are there any warranties/guarantees if the engine/aircraft turns out to be a dog (after spending c.£100k based on the result of a pre-purchase inspection)?

(ii) What are the pros/cons of purchasing an aircraft in the US and keeping it on N-Reg. (I know that I'd need to hold an FAA licence)

(iii) Any recommendations/top tips on insurance brokers?

(iv) What about purchasing from European countries/Turkey?

(v) Legals? Is it worth engaging a profession buyer? Is there such a thing as a professional buyer?

(vi) Currency requirements of all the various components of an aircraft (radios/instruments/landing gear/IFR kit, etc.)

(vii) Any other top tips? Pitfalls to avoid?

I guess the bottom line is that I have been saving to buy an aircraft for over 10 years. Now that I have the ability to actually buy one, I'm realising that there is a fair to middling chance that I could end up with a lemon.

Anyone out there happy to share words of wisdom/experience or even guidance?

many thanks in advance

rmdr2

[Fly4Business]

That is really a big topic. My one and only tip: as a first time buyer you will need a lot of help, don't do that alone and get a friend who has done that before, plus the mechanic taking responsibility for your ass not being hurt later on.

[ETOPS]

rmdr2

If you search around the internet you will find some aircraft dealers here in the UK. I won't do their advertising for them but there are two that take large spreads in Pilot Magazine and one in North Yorkshire featured on Afors.

As they have public reputations to protect they would be my first call - if only for advice. I'm sure they could assist you as they would be hoping for a sale.

Take a friend who is an owner with you - don't buy without a separate independent engineers inspection......

[Jan Olieslagers]

how to buy an aircraft
1) define mission
2) survey market, with respect to mission
3) choose from market and buy (or not)
4) get registration and more paperwork done
5) fly

a short-field load-lifter
nothing will beat a Zenith CH-701 on those terms

[DirtyProp]

My question is more about how one actually goes about safely buying the aircraft, i.e., is there an idiots guide?

The Idiot's Guide would be:
1) define your mission profile as detailed as you can
2) get a profession buyer - i.e. a broker

Considering your lack of experience, your chances of getting a lemon are a bit high.
Pm me if you'd like more info.

[Capt Kremmen]

Don't pay any deposit monies directly to the seller. Find an independent solicitor/lawyer and with the sellers agreement pay into an escrow account. Your cash will be held in circumstances where the seller can't get his/her hands on it until all the paperwork relating to searches, engineering, log books and surveys have been examined and satisfied.

This gives not only you the buyer greater security, but also should assure the seller of your bona fides.

[Maoraigh1]

If money matters more than your time, get to understand maintenance and logbooks. First look at any considered plane yourself, going through the logbooks.
Contact an engineer with experience on the type. The guy who'll likely be maintaining the purchase is best. Discuss with them before paying them to travel to inspect it. Many aircraft have faults that mean rejection without a professional inspection. NEVER BUY without one though. And use YOUR engineer
Examples: I found a prop damage after hitting an object on taxi, but no engine shock load test. And an AD missed, where the engineer insisted it had been done, but just not written up. ( I'd been less worried if he's said "Oops,missed that.)

[9 lives]

Do a lot of reading about the type you're considering. There are lots of "type" books out there on the more common types, and type clubs as well. One of the publications I like is Aviation Consumer.

Aviation Consumer (http://www.aviationconsumer.com/)

They seem to tell it like it is, and will have lots of information in archives.

What could challenge you are unexpected maintenance requirements - so expect them, by understanding. Doing so is entirely your personal responsibility. A mechanic you could hire might know many of them, but he will not have enough time to explain it all to you from a standing start. Rather, get yourself up to speed first.

There will be a massive jump in price for Cessnas and Pipers now, based upon their being "legacy" or not. The older aircraft are still great planes, and the same to fly as the new ones, but they subject to some parts availability difficulties, and additional inspections (which are entirely reasonable). Your saving in purchase price reflects this. That's not a "don't buy" warning at all, just cautionary - understand what you could be getting into.

Once you are part way into your research, ask your more type specific questions here, there is lots of type specific wisdom and experienc here...

[maxred]

I have just bought one in Spain, I live in Glasgow. It ferries up tonight. My 50c, because there are a lot of issues. Paperwork and the logs. This can be real PITa, because if any AD, SB, bits that should be log entries, but are missing, this can give you some heartache. Not now, but later. The old adage, if it looks like a duck, talks like a duck, it is a duck.

Buying a plane, is a bit like buying anything. Get a feel for the seller, get a feel for how it has been maintained, get a feel for how the set up looks. If you pitch up to view, and the battery is flat, and it is covered in bird plop, then sorry, I would pass on it. If the owner is fastidious, and the plane looks like it has been looked after, then, assuming all logs etc are in order, then possible go, after a thorough pre buy. However, a pre buy is like an MOT, only good for the minute the paper was passed to you. I have had pre buys done, and still ended up noting major issues, that were not detected. The registration status also must be looked at, any lien, any marital issues. The day of the gentlemens handshake apear to be over, unfortunately, so do your homework. Good luck.....if it is your first, it is a fantastic feeling.

[Fly4Business]

I think we should concentrate on the procedures of buying a decent plane, not pricing. Yes, you have to make sure the aircraft you get is in good shape and yes, you can get it from everywhere in the world, with different paths to get it to you. But, your initial purchase price may be surprisingly unimportant for owning an aircraft (i.e. I spend about my original purchase price each year again).

[RO13FLY]

It will feel quite intimidating going through the process for the first time but will be more than worth it in the end if you find a good one.

It will be important to find an engineer you feel you can trust so get recommendations (they will all have detractors as nobody is perfect buts it's the promoters who count in my view).

Other things you may want to consider are major accident damage (although things can be repaired well by good engineers), the history of ownership (if a plane changes hands often does that mean anything) and cost/availability of parts.

Many of the older fleet have ageing avionics and that will cost a lot to bring up to date.

I bought an Arrow some years ago and have been very happy with it although with the benefit of hindsight I am sure I would have done the purchase more thoroughly! I also think I would have given more consideration to a permit aircraft but am too attached to my Arrow now to consider replacing it.

Good luck.

[rmdr2]

Thank you all! Much appreciated!