Urgent help needed for PPL skill test

[youngretired]

Hello everyone,

I have an awkward situation in Italy. Here is the facts:


I'm a Turkish citizen, working in Italy
I've started my PPL training in a local club, but club bankrupted after 8 hours of flying,
I moved my training records to an another ATO, but they couldn't provide me ground school in English,
Even I would study myself, nobody was sure if anybody took an English PPL test in Italy before, so nobody was sure about the scope of the questions,
So I went to UK for a ground school in November 15, came back with my results,
After completion 45 hours of flying, I've applied for skill test,
Italian CAA doesn't and won't accept my application,
I gave up with my UK results and decided to take Italian exams,
But it also not possible because they don't want to prepare English PPL exams just because they can,
This is a conclusion of two months of e-mails and phone conversations.


So, after this point I give up and won't take any step in Italian soils. Things are getting weird and I become suspicious about all this related to racism.

I put all UK CAA and EU Regulations according to acceptance of my UK exam results but they keep going on insisting on their claims.

Any help appreciated if anybody knows a way that I can apply to Skill Test with my logbook and UK exam results in somewhere else?

What's the cost of time and money?

Any school around EU that can help?

[ersa]

I think i posted on your previous post about this......

Get your UK PPL results , approach a UK Flight school, show them your logbook , they will request your flight training records from the EASA flight school in italy.

Go through a small amount of training and then take your skills test.

The Main reason for your issue is the UK PPL exams are not sat at the CAA in the UK , i presume through a flight school.

The flight training standards are similar to the UK, will depend on your instructors of course.

I really don't understand why you can not get this done.

[youngretired]

When I approach a UK flight school, they don't care. I've sent inquiries to several UK and Hungarian schools, they are not willing to do this, just because they can't make money out of it.

Other fact of UK is the cost. Having a single PPL skill test costs around 1400 pounds. I've already spend one half more than a regular PPL license cost.

So, I need a cheaper solution with more friendly environment. It's the reason why I open this very thread.

And the reason why I can't get this done? Because every country believes that they've written Aviation 101.

[ifitaintboeing]

So I went to UK for a ground school in November 15, came back with my results

Providing you have completed ALL of the theoretical knowledge examinations in one member state, that should be acceptable.

Under EU legislation, you may complete your theoretical knowledge examinations and your flight training/test in any EASA member state, and apply to the National Aviation Authority where your medical records are held for the appropriate licence. There are also ATOs outside EASA member states who hold EASA ATO approvals - in the U.S., for example. See CAA document CAP 804 Section 3, Part A, page 1 (http://www.caa.co.uk/cap804) for information about State of Licence Issue for New Applicants.

After completion 45 hours of flying, I've applied for skill test

Having completed the minimum 45 hours of flight training required by FCL.210.A does not show that you have reached the required standard. In order to attempt a PPL Skill Test, you must hold a course completion certificate and be recommended for test by an ATO. If your medical records are held by the UK CAA, your Flight Examiner must follow the designation procedures described in CAA Information Notice 2016-004. Other EASA states have similar designation procedures.

Having a single PPL skill test costs around 1400 pounds.

A PPL Skill Test takes between 2 and 2.5 hours. Most UK solo hire rates are around £150 per hour or less for a typical training aircraft, so that's £375. The examiner fee for a PPL Skill Test varies between £100 and £200. Maybe a few landing fees also depending on where you do the test. Estimated total around £500 - £600.

And the reason why I can't get this done? Because every country believes that they've written Aviation 101.

The UK regularly accepts licence and rating applications from pilots who have completed their training and tests elsewhere in the world.

ifitaint...

[youngretired]

Under EU legislation, you may complete your theoretical knowledge examinations and your flight training/test in any EASA member state, and apply to the National Aviation Authority where your medical records are held for the appropriate licence. There are also ATOs outside EASA member states who hold EASA ATO approvals - in the U.S., for example. See CAA document CAP 804 Section 3, Part A, page 1 (http://www.caa.co.uk/cap804) for information about State of Licence Issue for New Applicants.


Yes, one can do apply this way. But not in Italy. Here PPL exams are held in CAA exam centers. In UK, under UK CAA Standards Document 11, capable ATOs can do it in-house. And this creates the conflicts between Italy and UK CAAs.

Italian CAA doesn't believe integrity of UK ATOs GS completion certficiate and exam result documents because they are not approved by any CAA. But according to UK legislation, ATO doesn't need any approval for the certificates that they release.

We've asked for a some sort of UK CAA approval. Answer was no from CAA side. They held their position that this particular ATO is very capable of releasing these documents. Italian CAA replied, we can't accept your skill test application unless UK CAA approval. UK CAA told, no we won't approve, because we/you don't need one.

Then we passed to phase two, the legislation. I've explained how UK CAA can authorise its ATOs and how they perform in-house exams, both using with EU and EASA legislation. Italian CAA answered, it's OK' you are 100% right. But we are responsible for our and EU legislation, not UK legislation. UK CAA can rule their own rule, but they also should confirm that this particular school `can` perform in-house exams, because ATO authorisation certificate doesn't show any statement that says they can do so. And I replied, you are correct, but that certificate doesn't have to show, because there's bunch of legislation says it doesn't need to show. They only need to sponsor an UK CAA certified examiner and one custodian of exam papers.

Afterall, Italian CAA sends one email to UK CAA, for confirmation of the legislation if applies to this ATO. Waits for a week. UK CAA answers, may or may not. It depends. If you like. If we like. etc etc...

Italian CAA doesn't likes that answer. Sends another email. Waits for another couple of weeks. Goes on, goes on.

Every single comunication of abovemention lines, takes weeks. One answer from one side depends on how many phone calls you've made before the answer. I'm tired of all this. It'll be two years since I've started my PPL training.

Having completed the minimum 45 hours of flight training required by FCL.210.A does not show that you have reached the required standard. In order to attempt a PPL Skill Test, you must hold a course completion certificate and be recommended for test by an ATO. If your medical records are held by the UK CAA, your Flight Examiner must follow the designation procedures described in CAA Information Notice 2016-004. Other EASA states have similar designation procedures.

Yes I do have that worthless course completion certificate too. Also the solo release certificates, language test results and whatever else I need to apply to skill test.

[ifitaintboeing]

Italian CAA doesn't believe integrity of UK ATOs GS completion certficiate and exam result documents because they are not approved by any CAA.

Actually, the person conducting theoretical knowledge examinations in the UK must hold a specific Ground Examiner authorisation (GR) issued by the UK CAA in accordance with guidance contained in CAA Standards Document 11. Typcially, that person is nominated within an ATO as the Custodian of Examination Papers (CEP) in accordance with Part ARA.300 and is authorised to conduct theoretical knowledge examinations on behalf of the UK CAA. A copy of the examiner's certificate should be sufficient evidence of approval along with the RF/ATO certificate if required.

I'm tired of all this. It'll be two years since I've started my PPL training.

One solution would be to move your medical records to the UK in accordance with the CAP 804 reference I have provided above, and have the UK CAA as your State of Licence Issue.

ifitaint...

[RedBullGaveMeWings]

I heard Italy won't make this possible unless you first take a licence in Italy. Only after that, they will allow you to transfer your medical records to another member state.
Oh, I'm so happy I left Italy and that I'm not going back anytime soon...

[youngretired]

Just issuing a new medical on other state probably will take less time then dealing with some Italian authorities. I know Italian medical certification institutions and they are good and fast at this. But transfer... ENAC... no thank you.

I'm in my last five months here in Italy, and I'm happier than my last five months were in Afghanistan.