What year did the RAAF flying school close at Tamworth?

[Frank Arouet]

At the conclusion to one hour of my life, (which I'll never get back), Tony Windsor waffled on about this closure and had a whine about Adelaide getting the Defence jobs. I have it in the back of my head that it closed during the rule of the Oakshot/Windsor/Labor/Greens coalition. Someone please tell me it was those nasty LNP people who did it to teach the good folk of New England a lesson in who not to vote for. It would seem either way he caused it.

[junior.VH-LFA]

It isn't closed, ADF BFTS is still at Tamworth and will be for another two years.

[Frank Arouet]

So what's Windsor on about? When did BAE loose the contract? Who is the current incumbent doing the training or is it in house RAAF?

[Stationair8]

Begs the question, who is Tony Windsor?

[Horatio Leafblower]

Hi Frank,

The final announcement about the ADF flight training was only made late last year I think. It will continue until 2018 or 2019 or something. :ooh:

Barnaby wasn't very happy, it was the second sh*t sandwich he has had to serve up to his electorate that year with the Shenhua Coal approval winning him no points with the Liverpool Plains mob. "Minister for agriculture unable to protect agriculture in own electorate".

Stationair8,

Tony Windsor is a Tamworth-based politician. Unable to win pre-selection for the National Party, he ran as an independent and won.

He was one of the 3 ex-National Party rogues who handed government to Julia Gillard to form minority government.

Many in his electorate consider him a traitor for doing so, and regard his anti-coal stance as deeply hypocritical given that he sold his family farm to Whitehaven Coal.

[Stanwell]

Honest, principled, Tony?
Hopefully, the good people of New England have worked out by now that he's little more than an avaricious snake in the grass.

[Frank Arouet]

Still begs the question, when and who was in charge when Tamworth and the good folk of New England lost a money spinner.
Perhaps Barnaby may consider some points on the board that would benefit both his constituents and aviation in general.
I say this because I know many of the "wash outs" are in GA right now looking to advance their careers. I don't say this out of disrespect but to highlight that grass roots aviation is there and alive in many forms.
Maybe Barnaby should ask the new aviation adviser to advise the Minister for things flying to look at it.
It's not as if the relevant Minister has anything to do right now except fall into line with the status quo.
Something for you to look into Horatio?

[Horatio Leafblower]

Decision has been made and contracts signed I suspect. The whole lot is going to Sale.

What will BAe do with the real estate? Dunno. Word is they have RTO consultants in there at the moment and they will be heading towards Airline training

All their Tamworth Defence clients would follow the ADF I suspect.

Not sure what I could/should look into, Frank.
:confused:

[Frank Arouet]

Not sure if you are a constituent or nearby, but GA in Tamworth mate. Mention it to Barnaby, can't hurt. Emphasize the grass roots aspect and how wash outs are still alive and looking for jobs. You know, how you keep telling all to keep talking to politicians. Or if you can't be bothered...

[junior.VH-LFA]

Its probably just being unlucky when it comes to being a politician and having a business decision go the wrong way for your local area.

[Frank Arouet]

Windsor politicized it today on ABC TV. Has a bee in his bonnet about money going to SA for subs etc and blames Joyce for it all.
I don't give a rats about who won or lost or provided the best service for taxpayer dollar, just thinking out aloud how GA could use his diatribe to fixate Barnaby Joyce and benefit the local industry.
But then again the Australian aviation disease strikes. Nowhere else in the world, just here.


Fight you bastards, I give up.

[le Pingouin]

Windsor is gearing up to stand against Joyce at the next election so of course he's going to bucket Joyce with whatever he can.

[Di_Vosh]

I fail to understand how BAE losing a tender because they didn't provide a superior military training solution

A "superior military training solution" wouldn't be high on the reasons why the tender was won or not.

DIVOSH!

[jas24zzk]

I say this because I know many of the "wash outs" are in GA right now looking to advance their careers

I know of one 'washout' that went back to GA, got his instructors ticket, some experience and wound up back at BAE teaching the ADF guys.
Fortunately for him he has since moved on.

He won't be the only one :)

[CoodaShooda]

Frank
The current government signed the contract with Lockheed Martin last December.

It will see BFTS and 2FTS shift from Tamworth and Pearce to East Sale, with ops commencing in early 2019.

The course will be based around simulators and PC 21 aircraft.

[Horatio Leafblower]

Not sure if you are a constituent or nearby, but GA in Tamworth mate.

We are fighting our arses off and I assure you Mr Joyce gets a fair bit of correspondence from me both as a business owner in his (re-shaped) electorate, and in other roles.

A longish tirade about improving policy to support aviation in regional areas resulted in a letter to the minister for transport, who then sent a Ministerial to the Tamworth office for a "please explain why this constituent is writing this?" letter.

Team Leader then rang me and expressed his displeasure that I had bothered the political masters and ruined his day.

Stupid byut entirely predictable thing is, Nothing in the letter was aimed at Tamworth and all of it was at Canberra and the policy in the head shed.

Got a letter back from BJ's office in due course "Please find attached correspondence form the Minister for Transport" etc etc etc.

"CASA is doing a very important job reforming the regulations for all Australians in line with its international commitments to Aviation Safety... CASA consults extensively with industry... Mr Leafblower met with the DAS and provided extensive valuable feedback... thank you for the letter from your constituent... blah blah blah"

Waste of time mate. :ugh:

This is, however, an opportunity to make BJ's seat marginal or, as others have posted, and the SMH hopes, boot him out.

I fail to see how BJ will be able to influence the transport portfolio.

[gerry111]

Whether Barnaby Joyce or Tony Windsor win the seat of New England at the next Federal Election, nothing will change for GA.


That's rather sad but I believe that it's the actuality.


Who really still believe that politicians really act in the best interests of their constituents?

[Frank Arouet]

At least HL got a letter back which is more than anyone did before Truss ran out of ink. Joyce is the leader and deputy PM so should pull rank over his "aviation minister". I too have had a gutful of politicians. I'm thinking more like a donkey each day.

[aroa]

Some Truss ink produced a letter back from an underling telling how safe it all is in Oz, good wx, flat country (mainly) and all due to world beating SAFETY regulations by the world leader CAsA. :mad: All the usual crapspeak.:mad:

Next election Frank, if you turn up just draw in another square, write DONKEY beside it and give it a BIG tick.:ok:

The energies of Pollie Wafflers are all put into either retaining power or getting back in...the problems posed by any constituents just fall by the wayside.

We could bombard Darren and Steven with letters telling it like it is...just like the ASRR, and would it do any good.? Think not
Result...NIX NOUGHT SFA.

They'll pass it on to CAsA where the professional spin doctors and bullsh*t artists will respond how they are keeping the world safe from falling aeroplanes and 30,000 ft death plunges.

So its all good , Nothing to worry about here. And they believe it :mad::mad:

[Horatio Leafblower]

Aroa's nailed it.

Off on a delegation to meet my (soon to be ex-) local member today, on a non-aviation matter.

Some time last year I spent a number of hours explaining it all to him and why it is so fkn hard to stay in busines in GA. I explained where the bottle necks seemed to be, and where and how the "QANTAS-size fits all" expectations are crushing the small businesses in red tape and compliance expense.

"You make some good points. I'll get onto Albo and see where the opportunities are for us to do something".

:rolleyes:

A couple of weeks later I received a phone call back from Joel (credit where it's due) and his response was:

"The problem with Aviation is that everyone thinks it's unsafe, so once these requirements come in it becomes very very hard to remove them, no matter how compelling the case. So... I'm afraid I don't think we can help you, Horatio".

We shall battle on.

Anyone want to run for the Senate on an Aviation reform package?

[Berealgetreal]

So is the flying training college (Bae systems) being closed/dismantled or is it just that the adf are going to adelaide? Aren't there still airlines doing a initial there? Or the self sponsored courses? Do they still run?

[Horatio Leafblower]

Berealgetreal....
...none of the above.

BAe lost the contract. Their present employees may or may not win employment with the new supplier in Sale.

The future of the facility has not been announced yet but BAe systems seems committed to finding work for the campus to continue.

[BPA]

For those who are older enough to remember, the BAe training was initially set up as a joint venture between BAe and Ansett as an Airline Training facility. The school had the CT4's for basic training, Tobago's for advanced/NAV's training and Seneca IV's for twin training. At times they made use of a Bandit for turbine training. The school was based on BAe's training school in the UK.

The ADF (other defence) training was an after thought, however over time it grew and the civil training ceased. So go back to civil training is just going back to what they did when the school opened 20 plus years ago.

[Lead Balloon]

"The problem with Aviation is that everyone thinks it's unsafe, so once these requirements come in it becomes very very hard to remove them, no matter how compelling the case. So... I'm afraid I don't think we can help you, Horatio".And that's the thriving industry everyone should join: The aviation 'safety' industry!

You don't need to worry about trifles like objective and comparative risks or trivia like cost/benefit analyses. You just feed off scared people.

The clearest example is the treatment of pilots with CVD. If CASA is so lacking in integrity and intellectual honesty to deal with that issue on the basis of objective evidence and objective risk, CASA will make any rule it likes in the name of 'safety'.

Get on board folks! Start spreading the word on how unsafe aviation is!

"Innovation" is about both kinds of transport: Road and rail. Aviation is so last century and so low tech. Australia needs adventurous innovators who can get their heads around how to build horizontal pieces of tarmac or steel strips, in generally straight lines or gentle curves. The technical challenges are mind boggling. So mind boggling that taxpayers should fund all this. It's not appropriate for the taxpayer to fund the building and maintenance of aerodromes, because that would be funding horizontal pieces of tarmac.

[Fieldmouse]

Is a few extra 604 movements during the circus, and then either a kicking if Windsor wins or SFA if Barnaby gets back in.

[Dick Smith]

Field mouse. Can you explain clearly what you mean by "a kicking"

[CharlieLimaX-Ray]

Wasn't the college put at Tamworth to keep the locals happy after Ansett took over East -West?

Originally One of the proposals was for it to go to Launceston along with the ATC training college as part of the deal to keep the voters of Bass on side for the Hawke government.

[Fieldmouse]

Bae's search was world wide and they selected Tamworth for the flying conditions and the greenfield potential.

[Tinstaafl]

When I was at BAe Tamworth the aircraft utilisation was:

TB10 (1): Ab-initio to CPL & a proportion of IR for all civil training.

CT4: Military screening and, I seem to recall, a small portion of a Japanese airline unusual attitude training.

CAP10: Military screening

Seneca III (2): All multi & multi-IR (3)**


Notes:

(1) Chinese contract, Ansett cadets, Japanese contract (4)

(2) Bespoke new-build orders to Piper. Built from Piper's parts in stock. Floor pan not the same as COTS Seneca III - lacked the ability to reverse Row 2 seats.

(3) Command IR for all courses (I think) except Vietnam ex-Airforce 'conversion' students - could not achieve standard in allotted training time due student's previous lack of experience so CP-IR only.

(4) Japanese training required not just JAA approved instructors, but JAA *licenced* instructors and JAA *licenced* examiners. Japanese course instructors had to go through a specific training course from the Jap licenced guys on secondment from Japan.