View Full Version : LSZS extra info please...
Xshongololo
4th Mar 2016, 14:30
Hi All,
Looking at operating an A320 or A319 into this airfield shortly.
I am aware of the self brief and airfield currency requirements.
Apart from the information in the self brief package if anyone can give me any extra worthwhile pertinent information which would be good to know as opposed to "need to know". It will be an interesting day out.
PM if you wish.
regards all,
Xshong.
Tarmac space is tight, better make sure in advance that they can accommodate a bird of that size.
Taxiways are non-standard width to begin with, and then the snow is not cleared wide enough either, so taxiing without hitting anything is not easy.
If you've never been there, I would think long and hard about attempting the approach with u-turn in the valley, so no ceiling on that day would be a big plus...
Above The Clouds
4th Mar 2016, 14:49
And check the PCN for the runway and apron.
030FCYT does that work for the A319/320
donPablo
4th Mar 2016, 15:16
And check the PCN for the runway and apron.
030FCYT does that work for the A319/320
My best advise would be: go there only when no ceiling and start slow as soon as possible. Try to make FMS points and altitudes with 10nm and 6nm as per briefing. Helps :).
Xshongololo
5th Mar 2016, 02:24
Thank you everybody for getting back to me...its much appreciated. This extra information gives me something extra to work with,
Many thanks,
Xshong
Tinytim
5th Mar 2016, 06:54
If you've never been there, I would think long and hard about attempting the approach with u-turn in the valley..
Dont even consider it........it would be a suicidal manouveur (I did it once in a Legacy......never again)
Ok for small props but NOT jet traffic, let alone your machine.
Above The Clouds
5th Mar 2016, 07:16
Dont even consider it........it would be a suicidal manouveur (I did it once in a Legacy......never again)
Ok for small props but NOT jet traffic, let alone your machine.
Mmmm, interesting comment.
Nothing wrong with flying in there with a jet if you have completed your six PPPPPP's before going.
Personally over the years I have flown various jets types into LSZS without issue both private and commercially.
Tinytim
5th Mar 2016, 07:33
By turning in the valley.....I assume reference is being made to doing a 360 over St Moritz in the valley.....
I know two other colleagues who have done it including our Chief pilot and neither of them would ever do it again.....
Maybe OK in a small citation or Premier but seriously if you cant make your approach in clear wx by flying straight down the valleys to the runway you are rolling the dice of fate.
The grim reaper has already had a good harvest from this airport and the risks of operating there should never be underestimated.
Above The Clouds
5th Mar 2016, 07:42
By turning in the valley.....I assume reference is being made to doing a 360 over St Moritz in the valley.....
I know two other colleagues who have done it including our Chief pilot and neither of them would ever do it again.....
Maybe OK in a small citation or Premier but seriously if you cant make your approach in clear wx by flying straight down the valleys to the runway you are rolling the dice of fate.
The grim reaper has already had a good harvest from this airport and the risks of operating there should never be underestimated.
To keep a level discussion, the accidents that have happened at LSZS are all landing accidents caused by pilots trying to land in conditions that could hardly be described as VFR.
http://www.airteamimages.com/pics/195/195614_800.jpg
http://i.ytimg.com/vi/iDNjyEzCH2c/maxresdefault.jpg
As I said earlier if you use your six PPPPPP's and be prepared to divert should the wx go below VFR conditions it should not be an issue, even in a jet. ;)
space-shuttle-driver
5th Mar 2016, 11:51
Go to the airport website:
Engadin Airport St. Moritz Airlines: News (http://www.engadin-airport.ch)
They have webcams, good tool for checking the conditions before you fly, or during your flight if you have internet access in your airplane.
Fly slow; know your turning radii at your speeds. Plenty of videos on YouTube.
It is courageous to go to this airfield on an A320 if you've never been there before.
Maybe you want to bring in a local pilot from there and have him be your 3rd man in the cockpit? Or travel there and hire some small aircraft with local pilot and do a thorough recon flight!
(@ website: you'll see a pic of the Breitling Super Conny on the ramp.)
Empty Cruise
5th Mar 2016, 21:34
As long as you abide by the airport minima, you'll be fine for a straight-in approach either runway.
1st time there, wx needs to be CAVOK, and you need to have completed the on-line brief before operating. Also be aware that CAVOK at Engadin means something else than in the rest in the world...
There are no real sharp turns on either straight-in - if you are F2 at Maloja or Zerniz and are on profile, it'll be a walk in the park.
If the weather is not there - don't. Just...don't.
FerrypilotDK
5th Mar 2016, 22:55
"Dont even consider it........it would be a suicidal manouveur (I did it once in a Legacy......never again)
Ok for small props but NOT jet traffic, let alone your machine.
Tinytim is offline Report Post "
Let me guess--you have been flying for an airline that 1. didnīt permit hand-flying, 2. didnīt permit circling approaches and 3, didnīt permit visuals.
Personally, I do not like making the turn in the valley, it is just narrow, so I overfly St Moritz, enter the parallel valley, descending, make two left turns with the valleys and voila--about a 6 mile final. Tell the pax in advance, so they can enjoy the view and it is a non-nail-biting event.
Lucky8888
6th Mar 2016, 01:20
There are a lot of YouTube videos making approaches/departures at LSZS. They may give you an idea of the layout,
Xshongololo
6th Mar 2016, 05:42
Thanks again everybody...its given me a good insight of what to expect and potential risk. Much appreciated.
Proline21
6th Mar 2016, 14:42
As for the PCN number you can request an exemption from the Engadin authorities to operate your desired aircraft there even if the PCN number is not matching. I am not sure if operators of heavy jets (private ops) even bother but I was told that for insurance purposes it is better to have written confirmation from the airport that they approve the visit with your (heavy) aircraft