Eric 'Winkle' Brown

[Level bust]

Sad news, Eric 'Winkle' Brown has sadly passed away at the age of 97.

Eric 'Winkle' Brown: Celebrated British pilot dies, aged 97 - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-35626854)

[Don't sink]

Sad news indeed, having just watched the BBC 6pm news even sadder that he wasn't even mentioned!! Despite many online petitions he never got the Knighthood he so deserves.

[Level bust]

Totally agree.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Very sad news. RIP Captain Brown.

[ImageGear]

Quite a nice little piece on Sky news at 6.00 - pity the national broadcaster could not get it together.

RIP

Imagegear

[Donkey497]

From what I have seen of the man, a man of near infinite patience, inquiring mind and the rare ability to explain to the wholly uninitiated the most complicated and abstruse aspects of flight & flying.


Coupled with his sometimes mesmeric tone when relating tales of his experience in an often self-deprecating and easy nature. He could easily be described as a National Treasure if only from the experiences he had had and could impart to others.


A man well worthy of his place in Valhalla.

[papazulu]

Sad news, Eric 'Winkle' Brown has sadly passed away at the age of 97.

WOT?

97 and you think it's sad? I mean...what else? Nothing left to achieve, I guess. Farewell, yes. Sad, most definitely...NO!

PZ :ok:

[4Greens]

Met him recently at a FAA reunion. Always with it and good with visitors (admirers).

Disgusting that he was never knighted.

[Coffin Dodger]

Disgusting that he was never knighted. I agree with that sentiment exactly. The UK 'honors' system nowadays is a disgrace.

[semmern]

A lot of numpties get their knighthood, but "Winkle" didn't. A travesty!

I am honoured to have met him and to have his signature in my logbook.

[captplaystation]

In an era where seemingly almost everyone is a "legend" , this man assuredly was one, RIP.


https://youtu.be/szten4iypCM

[Notthemainline]

Had the pleasure of meeting him and hearing him address small audiences in the last few years. A treat when someone asked him 'Why did the Luftwaffe not build four-engine heavy bombers as the RAF did?'. His reply began 'ah yes, I asked Goering that...'.

Amazing to have such ready access to such meaningful history. While I share, personally, the concern that he may not have been offered a K, I am aware that he may have been, and may have turned it down.

Either way, his achievements transcend any letters which might have been placed behind his name.

[PAXboy]

I'm afraid that the meedja are going to be feasting on the Euro thing for a few years with not much else getting a look in (apart from the US election which is always over reported) BUT the BBC web article linked in the fist post of this thread does contain facts and ends:
In 2014 , the war veteran was picked as the subject for the 3,000th edition of Desert Island Discs, during which he was described by presenter Kirsty Young as a "real life hero" and a "remarkable, dare-devil".

"When you read through his life story, it makes James Bond seem like a bit of a slacker," she said.

[MrBernoulli]

That is sad. But what an innings! Having seen and listened to interviews with him he seemed to have a pin-sharp mind right up to his passing - perhaps a product of his wish to always know more, and keeping very active.

If you a haven't done so, read his book, Wings On My Sleeve. My only problem with the book was that it wasn't long enough - I wanted to read so much more about all his adventures!

Blue skies, Eric!

[Herod]

I was given "Wings on my Sleeve" for Christmas. What a fascinating read. I agree with MrBenoulli that it wasn't long enough. May you always have clear skies, Sir.

[Bill Macgillivray]

Sir,
I honestly wish that I was able to say "Sir Eric"! However, I do know that was not in your "flight plan" but, nonetheless, it would have been more than deserved from your country !

However, those of us who knew and/or worked with you over the years, know that it is immaterial! WE know the real truth !!

I was going to say "Happy landings" - a totally pointless comment !!!

Sir, dark blue, light blue or khaki - we will remember you !

Bill.

[Mach Jump]

Very sad to hear this today.

Whatever the 'right stuff' is, Capt. Eric 'Winkle' Brown had it in bucketloads.

A life well lived, and a world immeasurably diminished by his departure from it.


MJ:ok:


Ps. Although I agree, he should have been knighted years ago, I've no doubt that he would have declared it 'a lot of fuss over nothing'.

MJ

[rjtjrt]

A remarkable man, a remarkable life well lived.

[Greenlights]

why sad ? 97 y/o, at least he's lived a long life rich in experience.

But great man indeed and pilot, nothing to see with cadets nowadays. :rolleyes:

we will never see this kind of pilot again in the futur. THIS is sad to me.

RIP Captain Brown.

[Suzeman]

He came to speak at our little provincial aviation society many years ago when Jimmy Orrell was our President. I was then chairman and was privileged to take them both for a meal beforehand and take him back to the hotel afterwards.

What a fantastic evening; he was so down to earth and friendly to everyone and had tales to tell that would make your hair stand on end! That's the sort of evening you will never forget

RIP Eric

[IcePack]

This seems appropriate:-

Flying West
I hope there's a place, way up in the sky,
Where pilots can go, when they have to die-
A place where a guy can go and buy a cold beer
For a friend and comrade, whose memory is dear;
A place where no doctor or lawyer can tread,
Nor management type would ere be caught dead;
Just a quaint little place, kinda dark and full of smoke,
Where they like to sing loud, and love a good joke;
The kind of place where a lady could go
And feel safe and protected, by the men she would know.

There must be a place where old pilots go,
When their paining is finished, and their airspeed gets low,
Where the whiskey is old, and the women are young,
And the songs about flying and dying are sung,
Where you'd see all the fellows who'd flown west before.
And they'd call out your name, as you came through the door;
Who would buy you a drink if your thirst should be bad,
And relate to the others, "He was quite a good lad!"

And then through the mist, you'd spot an old guy
You had not seen for years, though he taught you how to fly.
He'd nod his old head, and grin ear to ear,
And say, "Welcome, my son, I'm pleased that you're here.
"For this is the place where true flyers come,
"When the journey is over, and the war has been won
"They've come here to at last to be safe and alone
From the government clerk and the management clone,
"Politicians and lawyers, the Feds and the noise
Where the hours are happy, and these good ol'boys
"Can relax with a cool one, and a well-deserved rest;
"This is Heaven, my son -- you've passed your last test!"

Author: Capt. Michael J. Larkin

RIP

[Ancient-Mariner]

I had the pleasure of attending a meeting of the Clwyd Aviation Group where Captain Brown was the guest speaker.

An amazing aviator, the likes of whom we shall never ever see again.

R.I.P. Captain Brown.


Clive

[Out Of Trim]

What a man and what a pilot!

Holds the record for most aircraft types flown, which will probably never be beaten.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/ba/Eric_Brown.jpg/225px-Eric_Brown.jpg

RIP, I salute you with a fine glass of red wine.

[Solar]

Got his book Wings On His Sleeve just before Christmas (should have been titled wings on his back), unbelievable read, had to keep checking that it wasn't a fictional.
Sad that he is gone but what a life as others have said.
RIP

[Cat3508]

Have volume's 1 and 2 of his "Wings of the Weird & Wonderful" describing his experiences flying 65 different aircraft. Brilliant.

RIP

[LeadSled]

Folks,
Last summer, I had the honor to meet him, once and only, when he was guest speaker at West London Aero Club, White Waltham. I would never have taken him for the age he was, a most remarkable man.
His achievements and contribution to aviation will not be forgotten.
Tootle pip!!

[4Greens]

Any news on plans for a funeral ?

[msbbarratt]

Any news on plans for a funeral?Something significant in London that closes a lot roads would be highly appropriate I think.

Having done it all down here, now he's going to teach the angels how to fly properly :)

[joy ride]

A truly remarkable man, highly intelligent, highly skilled, flew more types than anyone in the world, conversed easily with people of many nationalities and backgrounds, and explained matters well in countless TV and radio programmes and interviews in magazines and newspapers.

It is deeply sad that he has gone before being honoured by the nation, no the WORLD he served so well, but what a man and what an innings. RIP.

One of his many fine achievements was the "Rubber Deck Landings" on an aircraft carrier in a de H Vampire with gear up. This idea went no further, but a few years later my Dad was part of the team which sold the ship to Argentina!

[theAP]

A truly remarkable man who flew almost 490 air crafts during his life!
R.I.P Eric

[JEM60]

The best after-dinner speaker EVER!!!. A superb man. Knighthood, Pah... He wasn't an Actor, or a Celeb, or a Footballer, but to all of us with an interest in Aviation, whether large or small, he will ALWAYS be our hero.'Wings on my Sleeve' has, and always will have, pride of place on my Aviation bookshelf, signed by him with a personal message to me. A prized possesion indeed.!

[AtomKraft]

Sorry to hear of this gentlemans death.
Read some of his books and clearly he had a fabulous time.

Truly, a flower of Scotland.

[DirtyProp]

A true Legend, and one of my personal heroes.
RIP.

[Evanelpus]

Met him last year (or was it the year before) at Duxford. He was the kind of bloke you could have spent all day with listening to his stories and not get in the least bit bored.

RIP Sir, you deserve that much.

[Alan Baker]

Eric 'Winkle' Brown was honoured by his country. He received an MBE during the war, was upgraded to OBE shortly after the war and was more recently upgraded to CBE. Knighthoods are more sparingly handed out now than during the ridiculous period of the Blair years when anybody who was thought to be popular who had achieved some success in their field was handed a knighthood (or a damehood) in an attempt to make the honours system popular and "relevant". Today, the populist tendency is resisted by the body that administers the system, which is why Andy Murray has not been knighted in spite of Cameron's call for one after he won Wimbledon. Also, today a knighthood is the highest honour whereas in the past a life peerage was the highest ( as in Lord Olivier etc.). Today life peerages are exclusively a political award for people who are going to sit in the House of Lords.

[Exnomad]

Over 1100 deck landings, amazing.
I had enough of a problem getting on to a runway.
Decks do not stand still, go up and down and sideways when you approach.

[skridlov]

In The Telegraph:
Captain Eric 'Winkle' Brown - obituary - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obituaries/12167611/Captain-Eric-Winkle-Brown-obituary.html)

Without any doubt Cpt. Brown was a remarkable human being with an extraordinary life history.

Very few of the men and women who fought to defend this country in WW2 are still with us and it's essential that we try to convey some of what they represented to coming generations. Which makes it all the sadder that their commemoration by airshows like that at Shoreham are now looking threatened.

I'd agree that something approaching a state funeral would be very appropriate for "Winkle" Brown. But of course it probably won't happen. Let's hope that we at least get a major TV documentary that might be seen by a few of the people who need to see it as the British population passively sit back allowing the country to be invaded whilst barely noticing it's happening

[JOE-FBS]

"a major TV documentary"

Like the one the BBC made a year or two ago?

BBC Two - Britain's Greatest Pilot: The Extraordinary Story of Captain Winkle Brown (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b045pbq2)

Not long or technical enough for the likes of us but an excellent piece of TV for all.

plus of course the BBC made a big splash with him on Desert Island Discs as mentioned above.

[JOE-FBS]

PS I had the joy of hearing him deliver lectures three times plus shaking his hand and exchanging a few tongue tied (me not him) words when he signed my copy of Wings on My Sleeve at Farnborough 2004 (I think). Neville Duke signed my copy of Test Pilot that day as well.

Eric Brown never stopped until nature stopped him. he was booked to speak at RAeS Hatfield in April, I had arranged my holidays not to miss it. A great and long life.

[Wageslave]

Do we actually know he was not offered a K?
It seems quite possible that he declined to accept, or made it known that he would do so if offered. That info would only be revealed by the potential recipient so if he then said nowt about it we'd never know.

Perhaps someone will name a star after him. That would be a fitting tribute.

[Mach Jump]

MODS:

Perhaps this thread should be combined with the similar one in the MIL forum?


MJ:ok:

[Sleeve Wing]

………or in “Where are they now ?” :confused:

[G-CPTN]

Where is the Book of Remembrance? - and where should we pile all the floral tributes (https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=diana+floral+tributes&client=opera&hs=81y&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj8la31lozLAhVEpw4KHUNWBboQsAQIHw&biw=1091&bih=567) (and teddybears)?

[Loggerheads]

Over 1100 deck landings, amazing.

Indeed, quite a few more than 1100.

He also held the world record for the most carrier landings, 2,407, partly compiled in testing the arrestor wires on more than twenty aircraft carriers during World War II.

Rumour has it the USAF tasked a pilot with the sole purpose of beating the record and he lost his bottle at somewhere around 1600 and had to stop.

Many lives packed in to one, Farewell Captain Brown.

[4Greens]

We all need to know when and where his funeral will be so we can attend. Please post any news soonest.

[Airbubba]

Rumour has it the USAF tasked a pilot with the sole purpose of beating the record and he lost his bottle at somewhere around 1600 and had to stop.

A U.S. Air Force pilot trying to break the record for carrier landings? I would suggest that tale might be somewhat apocryphal. Might fool a Marine though... ;)

I believe VADM Ted Carter over at Boat School holds the U.S. record for carrier landings at just over 2000.

Fair winds and following seas Captain Winkle Brown! :ok:

[Wageslave]

One might hope that someone with the wherewithal might provide a suitable aerial tribute on that occasion. A Sea Fury would be ideal, or perhaps the Vixen might lay down a boom...that would be fitting tribute indeed.

However that sort of thing is up to the family, not us to decide as appropriate or not.

[Trevor the lover]

Reference lack of news coverage of Winkle's passing - his death made the I read his book years ago. The best aviation read possible.


I was particularly impressed with how they would fly aircraft such as Spitfires directly into dirty thunderstorms to see how the aircraft would cope.

[Flying Lawyer]

Reference lack of news coverage of Winkle's passing
Lack of news coverage?
Try putting 'Winkle Brown" into google and searching under news. You'll find about 120 links to news items.

WageslaveDo we actually know he was not offered a K?
It seems quite possible that he declined to accept, or made it known that he would do so if offered.We don't know, but I doubt if those of us who knew him would consider it even a possibility that he would have declined.
He was, entirely justifiably, very proud of his many achievements and was neither shy nor given to inappropriate false modesty.


A life well lived, and a source of fascinating stories, both in public and at home.

[parabellum]

When it comes to funeral arrangements I would like to think that the Royal Navy would play a significant part, if the family would like that.

[galaxy flyer]

Airbubba,

RADM Carter was an NFO, watched over 2,000 traps from a short remove--the back seat of a Tomcat. Not quite the same as Winkle Brown.

GF

[Airbubba]

RADM Carter was an NFO, watched over 2,000 traps from a short remove--the back seat of a Tomcat. Not quite the same as Winkle Brown.


Thanks for the correction! Didn't realize he was a 'FO. I got some bad gouge on the subject from one of those Academy ring knockers and overstated VADM Carter's achievement tremendously.

I still don't believe the one about the Air Force pilot getting 1600 traps before 'he lost his bottle [sic]'. :)

[Art Smass]

I still don't believe the one about the Air Force pilot getting 1600 traps before 'he lost his bottle [sic]'.

Agreed - 1600 does seem a bit high:p

just jokin':E

[Scuffers]

Thanks for the correction! Didn't realize he was a 'FO. I got some bad gouge on the subject from one of those Academy ring knockers and overstated VADM Carter's achievement tremendously.

I still don't believe the one about the Air Force pilot getting 1600 traps before 'he lost his bottle [sic]'.

also, a massive difference doing carrier landings in a operational, production aircraft like the F-14/F18 etc onto a Nimitz Class Aircraft Carrier than taking a totally untested aircraft and landing it for the first time on a cobbled together Aircraft Carrier in a time of war.

[HamishMcBush]

Doesn't matter how old he was, it's still sad that he has passed away (in response to some earier comments).
Nice tribute here:
Vulcan To The Sky - Captain Eric "Winkle" Brown. (http://www.vulcantothesky.org/news/755/82/Captain-Eric-Winkle-Brown.html)

Seems my dad may have met him when he was doing his National Service, on "Lusty" shortly after WW2

[criticalmass]

Both my father and mother met Winkle when Dad was on exchange with the RAN and went to England in 1956, taking the whole family with him. They met Winkle when both were at the Joint Services Staff College, near Latimer.

Dad always remembered Winkle very fondly, and for many years afterwards told a hilarious story about Winkle's pet dog, which suffered from epileptic fits and the only cure was to pour brandy down the dog's throat.

I was a little too young to meet Winkle myself, which is my loss.

RIP, Eric "Winkle" Brown, CBE, DSC, AFR, Hon FRAeS, RN.

[megan]

Perhaps someone will name a star after him. That would be a fitting tributeTwinkle, twinkle.......

RIP Sir, and thank you for your contributions to this band of brothers.

[hd1080ts]

BBC2 (except Wales) HD at 7pm this Friday 26th.
James Holland's documentary "Britain's Greatest Pilot: The Extraordinary Story of Captain Winkle Brown" is being repeated :
BBC Two - Britain's Greatest Pilot: The Extraordinary Story of Captain Winkle Brown (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b045pbq2)
Will probably also be available on iPlayer again.
It can also be found on youtube if you do a search.

A cut down version is on Netlflix USA called "Memories of a WWII Hero: Captain Brown's Story" no James Holland or ‘Hals-und Beinbruch’
http://movies.netflix.com/WiMovie/80021875

James Holland has posted a transcript from an interview which has extra details here and there.
James Holland's Griffon Merlin | Captain Eric ?Winkle? Brown (http://www.griffonmerlin.com/wwii-interview/captain-eric-winkle-brown/)

Eric's Desert Island Discs episode can be listened to here:
BBC Radio 4 - Desert Island Discs, Captain Eric 'Winkle' Brown (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b04nvgq1)

Farnborough Air Sciences Trust has posted a tribute to Eric.
http://www.airsciences.org.uk/CaptainEricBrown_Notice_Feb16.pdf

[HamishMcBush]

More:
Eric 'Winkle' Brown: Town pays tribute to former Farnborough pilot - Get Hampshire (http://www.gethampshire.co.uk/news/local-news/eric-winkle-brown-town-pays-10943763)

[hd1080ts]

Britain's Greatest Pilot: The Extraordinary Story of Captain Winkle Brown
Now on iPlayer
BBC iPlayer - Britain's Greatest Pilot: The Extraordinary Story of Captain Winkle Brown (http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b045pbq2/britains-greatest-pilot-the-extraordinary-story-of-captain-winkle-brown)

[NorthernChappie]

Watched the BBC replay tonight. Hadn't seen it before. Best I can say is my dear wife said before "why are we watching this". At the end there was a tear on her cheek. 'nuff said.

[HEATHROW DIRECTOR]

Eric was the master of the understatement. When a U Boat surfaced near to the vessel he was aboard one sailor jumped for the 50mm gun and fired at the U Boat. Eric said: "THe U Boat captain became irritated......". I nearly fell off my chair.

[hd1080ts]

Capt Eric 'Winkle' Brown bust at Fleet Air Arm Museum
Capt Eric 'Winkle' Brown bust at Fleet Air Arm Museum - BBC News (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-31858131)

[Standby Scum]

YouTube:- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szten4iypCM

[steamchicken]

Does anyone know what became of his papers, especially the log books? I know someone who is an expert on digitising historical documents at Oxford University (automated bulk scanners, specially tuned Linux systems, Web-based referencing, clever stuff).

[Genghis the Engineer]

It's probably a little early to ask that I'd venture.

Post funeral, given he's a past president of the RAeS - and they manage the national aerospace library, I could hazard a guess where any archives will go - and that is probably the right place.

G

[Out Of Trim]

His First Log Book was apparently lost at sea. When his ship; HMS Audaciity, a converted former German Banana Boat ( converted to an escort aircraft carrier ) was torpedoed.

Eric Brown jumped overboard with said. Log book down the front of his trousers, but it made swimming and treading water too difficult and he had to reluctantly let it go!

[wiltshireman]

Before we all get carried away, it is worth pointing out that on the TV programme, there was no Fleet Air Arm input at all.

[visibility3miles]

The Economist published a very good obituary:

Know your enemy | The Economist (http://www.economist.com/news/obituary/21693807-mr-brown-regularly-defied-death-humour-and-smile-he-was-97-obituary-eric-winkle-brown)

Obituary: Eric “Winkle” Brown
Know your enemy

...Captain Brown’s career. In the course of it he flew 487 different types of aircraft, most of them prototypes. He changed planes so often that he kept a loose-leaf folder, meticulously handwritten, of all the different cockpit layouts, hydraulics and emergency drills, to try to keep on top of things. Many of these craft he operated on aircraft-carriers; he clocked up 2,407 carrier landings and 2,721 take-offs, both world records. He tested the earliest helicopters, jets and rocket-powered machines. His working life took him from the wood-and-canvas craft in which he started with the Fleet Air Arm, to overseeing training on the nuclear strike force at Lossiemouth in the 1960s. The rising arc of power and accuracy was so steep that it astonished him.

...accidents were ten a penny. He survived for two reasons: he was careful, and he was small. Small enough to curl up in a cockpit, rather than get his legs sheared off [during ejection]. Hence “Winkle”...

[Scuffers]

That begs the question, just how many times did he bail out?

[Genghis the Engineer]

That begs the question, just how many times did he bail out?

A while since I read Wings on My Sleeve, but IIRC, he didn't - but did crash quite a few times.

G

[Genghis the Engineer]

he kept a loose-leaf folder, meticulously handwritten, of all the different cockpit layouts, hydraulics and emergency drills, to try to keep on top of things

Now, along with his logbook, there's something that I'd pay good money for a copy of.

G

[morbos]

A while since I read Wings on My Sleeve, but IIRC, he didn't - but did crash quite a few times.

G

At least once. Per that book, stepping with difficulty into the slipstream of a burning Tempest V with a seized prop. Pinned, he had to reach back in and give the controls a yank to dump him out of it.

[Porschephile]

I don't comment here often as a pure PAX, but I must say - Captain Brown was one of the finest gentlemen to have walked this earth.
My father worked for a good friend of his, so I met him many times.

Truly an 'old, bold pilot', contrary to the popular maxim.

[BEA 71]

At our Annual General Meeting of the RAeS Munich Branch today we held a Minute of Silence in Memory of Eric Brown. He liked to come to Munich for lectures, and we knew him very well. A great Pilot and a fine Gentleman.

[wiltshireman]

Regarding his logbooks and other bits and pieces, they've gone to the Fly Navy Heritage Trust

[Bergerie1]

wiltershireman,

Excellent news!

[LOMCEVAK]

It is interesting that, in all of the statistics on Eric's remarkable career, there has been no mention of his total number of flying hours and the type on which he had the most hours. Out of curiosity, anyone any data?

[Genghis the Engineer]

I don't sadly Lomcevak. But - and yes I've suggested this a few times and places related to a few of the great and good who have gone before - I wonder, if Eric's logbooks have gone to the Navy Heritage trust, whether they could be persuaded (charitable purposes, of-course) to publish a facsimile of his logbooks?

He's not the only one I'd buy if they were available: which so far they're not, but I can think of few finer ways of spending an evening than browsing Eric Brown's logbook over a whisky. That, the mechanism of commemorating such a remarkable life, and that it's a historical document the contents of which will have relevance to many, for a very long time to come.

G

[Miles Magister]

I was fortunate to meet him and dine with him on several occasions. Once my son briefed me that he was going to ask him what was the best aircraft he never flew but wanted to fly and told me that he expected the answer to be the Miles M52. Sure enough when asked and without hesitation Eric answered the Miles M52. He remembered this fondly talked about the question on subsequent meetings.

He was an all round nice guy.

MM

[megan]

best aircraft he never flew but wanted to flyIn an interview (Guild News, June 2009) he is quoted as saying, "The sound barrier aside, Capt Brown’s sole regret is not having flown the X 15".

[wiltshireman]

Genghis (Good name! Must have been a Checker!!)

I'm involved with the FNHT and will see if they have any plans to publish Winkle's logbooks.

But don't hold your breath!

[pithblot]

Many -most? - of Winkle Brown's traps would not have had the 'luxury' of an angled flight deck. An angled flight deck gives the pilot an option to bolt when a landing goes wrong. Images of early carrier operations with a straight flight deck are chilling - miss a wire (probably the wire) and the aircraft collides with the barrier net which hopefully was enough to stop a fiery crash into the aircraft stored on deck at the bow.

[Miles Magister]

In an interview (Guild News, June 2009) he is quoted as saying, "The sound barrier aside, Capt Brown’s sole regret is not having flown the X 15".

My son asked the question in a public forum during a Royal Society presentation and there are many who would argue that the X-15 was the M52 after Miles were allegedly instructed to send their research and plans to the US as war reparations.