European Aviation Air Charter

[geordie crawley]

I am really hoping any of the crews working for EAL can throw some light onto my questions. I have an interview down in Bournemouth next week. BUT!!! have heard some pretty unsavoury rumours about the company, have been told that the crews are really unhappy and leaving by the dozens, the salary and flight pay - leave a lot to be desired?!?! Crews are sitting for weeks on end on stand-by and this is making their salary dire!

I will have to travel down from Newcastle for this interview and it's a long way to go if all is not as it seems!

Help?!?!?! Please throw some true facts on how it is...



:rolleyes:

[flymeboy]

Hello! :)

I have a good friend that is working for European on the long haul B747-200's and he says that it isn't that good unfortunately! It is alot of min rest when night stopping, the crews aren't very happy and that the money is very low! Also the crew is bonded for a couple of months due to the training and uniform costs etc! I did apply to them but as yet, haven't heard anything back from them !! I applied about 3 months ago!!!!

Hope this helps!!! :)

[Noddy Staltern]

The money is lousy - £8000 pa and £1.50 per duty hour (after tax - breakfast is paid for). Work has been slack but flying is now starting to pick up. Most of the recent work has been min rest. Plenty of long (4/5 night) trips coming soon e.g. Bermuda, Jamaica and the Seychelles. A few crew have left, but not dozens. Lots of positioning by air and road. Bases to be LGW and MAN, but company base is Bournemouth. Trying to do the job from Newcastle would not work.

[Gotta-FOnow]

Friend of mine works for them and is pretty disgusted by the going's on their.

Money is 8500 Jnr 9800 Psr (although some on 13000) IFD 16000 flight pay £1.67 per duty hour 2 p/cent bar commission.

Yes my friend has had loads of stbys and done a few flights but mostly stbys seems they get called by rostering when their on days off and after their stbys for crew changes. Some dont answer their phones etc

The head bag for the 747 has been nick named the Grim Reaper by the crew as she seems to be a bit of a nutter. She has her little favourites and they call or text her with whats being said and done on the line, which does not seem to be very professional on her part. Also her little favourites seem to be the ones who are getting promoted. one guy 21 yrs old and having done one season promoted to purser another 7 1/2 months experience the same lots of crew with loads more experience not getting anywhere cause they wont stitch up their colleagues. One IFD got found out to having lied about having incharge experience on the 747 (ie. he didn't have any) and nothing was done.

Seamingly their has been a few good trips which went to the Golden Girls or the favourites and they seem to know about their rosters before their even published (make your own mind up about that one).

Personally I would not touch it with a barge pole or even tell anyone about them if they were recruiting. Seems AML and BA crews went for interviews and laughed at the salary etc.

Anyway seems noddy that your wrong about people leaving quite a few have quit this week and lots more are looking for other jobs.

Be Safe, Happy Flying
The FO coming home now so gotta go

:eek: :eek: :eek:

[Peter Pan2]

Just to fill in all those people wondering about EAL. I work for them and will soon be off to start my new job. All the gossip is true. They have a cabin crew manager who has no back bone, He is unable to make his mind up on what salary his crew should be getting. When we started we were all told that IFD was 16.000 Purser was 13.000, infact some pursers are on 9.600, some on 13.000, ask him why its because he has been overuled by Poison Ivy. or Cruella De Vill. Both the names fit well. One guy has been on s/b for five weeks and only took home £485. this month not enough to keep most people in toilet paper these days. From the course i started on only one person is left. WHY. Ill tell you, they are the worst airline i have had the pleasure of flying with in the last twelve years. And that is only three airlines.

If you are thinking of working for them then you like me need to get your head tested.

Good Luck

[Gotta-FOnow]

Just Heard rumour from my friend at EAAC that quite a few people have just resigned from them for various reasons.

Reasons

1. Cruella De Ville
2. Pay
3. Allowances
4. Certain people getting all the good trips
5. The companies tendencies to oversell themselves
6. The lack of professionalism
7. Harressment , favouratism ,
8. Crewing phoneing when they want to
9. Cabin Crew manager unable to overrule Cruella
10. To save their own sanity.

So happy people thought that you all might like to know this information before you even think about applying for the position.

:D :D :D

[ariel]

Well, words fail me: I've posted previously about EAC - I use to work for them 5 years ago, and they were bad enough then, but appear to have gotten even worse.

When I was there: - Poor pay / hideous pursors, (very much into favouritism) / established crew refusing to speak to new crew / crap rosters / crewing calling all hours ..... / positioning to other bases v. frequently, (had to hire a car, and drive it yourself! - no crew bus, etc...).

To cap it all, when people left, they were 'TERMINATED' (the actual words used on roster, (which incidentally, was a 'shared' roster, with details of other crew on it). When I myself was 'terminated', on the very day of termination, I was called out to operate a flight: On finishing the flight, I was stripped, (literally), of my uniform and pass, and told "bye, thanks very much", and left to stoll across the apron and through security by myself. Security then demanded to know where my pass was......

It is a pity, because EAC have the capacity to cut a niche for themselves in our competitive market - certainly, their fleet has improved since my time there, (only BAC 11s then, short haul only). However, until they get rid of some of the trash that serves as staff, and bring wages and flight pay up to speed, they will never shake off their amateur<ish> image, and will continue to lose good and potentially good crew.

By the way, can't quite place Cruella - must be since my time, (or a new nickname for one of the resident dragons!).

If ANYBODY pursues employment with this company, please do so with caution, and don't say you weren't warned.

ariel

[BIG DICK]

Hi Folks,

I thought I'd try and be positive about EAAC, well someones got to - alright!

I have only been working for EAAC for a short while and everybody I have met at the company (with the exeption of one or two, but life wouldn't be life if you got on with everyone now would it?) has seemed really nice, approachable and very friendly, INCLUDING the affore mentiond "Grim Reaper" or "Cruella DeVille" as some people call her. The company itself is a bit dis organised at the moment but wouldn't you be if you we in charge of cabin services and all of a sudden your boss decides to buy a few Jumbo's without any notice to you! I think they have done a very good job in getting them up and running. As for the idea that most of you have about people not flying, there is a fair amount of flying at the moment, BUT you can only fly an aircraft if you have crew - don't you agree? however that aside, from what I understand and have been told, EAAC have six flights a week going to Orlando, Sandford starting in June, three a week from Gatwick and three a week from Manchester. other flights that are going at the moment are, Martinique, Ghana, Calgary, Minardi Formula One team flights and other flights as well. There are alot of other flights and contracts coming in as well. As for whether they are minimum rest I thhink they vary as to when and where you go.

Money wise, I think there is or has just been a pay review, But if you not happy with the money, you have a choice, its goes along the lines of take it or leave it. Surely the people who already work at EAAC know what they get paid and if they don't like it I'm sure they're big and brave enough to leave. The is a few people who have come across from JMC / AML and most of which seem to be enjoying themselves. The good thing about this airline is people who are here tend to want to be here and have fun at the same time.

Basically it all boils down to whether you are able to live on a bit of a pay cut but have a good laugh or whether you want to earn a bit more and work with alot of two-faced superficial crew who are just in the job for the money and who don't really care about alot else....

Up to you, but I reccomend it.

[Gotta-FOnow]

BIG DICK

Think you got a few good points big dick but you gotta remember most people are not like you pilots getting £40000 grand plus a year not including flight pay. My friend who works for EAAC cant even get a mortgate on the money their offering and basically everybody has to live at the end of the day.

Yes they have the orlando flights coming up very very soon but basically they need 16 crew checked out to operate and at the moment they have only 5? And with people leaving what are they going to do.??

Yes poisone ivy (the grim reaper, CRUELLA) does come across as very nice but from everything that i have heard she is a complet psycho???? texting people at 4 /6 am in the morning to find out whats been said on the line is very unusual dont you agree??? Making crew up from junior to purser with only 6 months experience is not very professional in my mind and yes it has been done have that on good word. Also what do you think big dick about her terrorising crew on trips believe quite a few people have resigned this week over her.???>

Your comments are very much appreciated but at the end of the day were all in the business to yes have a good trip but at the end of the day earn some money as well.

Flight deck are in a position to say whats happening to eaac but and its a very big but you DONT see what the grim reaper is doing to the cabin crew from what i've heard she is making the cabin crews life hell and most are looking for other work. If the company doesnt do something about it soon they wont have enough EXPERIENCED crew to operate the 747's.

I personally wouldnt put up with that kind of behaviour or expect any crew to either.

Keep safe happy flying

[BIG DICK]

Gotta-FOnow

Who said anything about me being a pilot? well I can't exactly fly a 747 classic with a PPL now can I, Hope springs eternal though!

They're operating thier Jumbos with 12 crew not 16.

Everone does need to live, and like I said, people have a choice as to what they do. You're friend that is wanting a mortgage must have know what the money was going to be when they started now, mustn't they?

As for being made up quickly, I can't say about what I don't know, but as they are only employing experienced crew I'm guessing that they are only promoting experienced crew...

I things like the texting or whatever happens then so be it, it hasn't happened to me and if it does then I am sure something will be done about it.

appreciate your views,

take it easy..

[Virtual Ops]

Don't be unhappy!!!! :rolleyes:

Get a NEW job :cool:

Nordic Airlink have an MD82 at BRS & are looking for yet more experienced crew.

Email : [email protected]

[miss yvonne]

Hi all,

Just to let you know I've just got myself a job with European, I read all the comments on the site, which were a little negative to say the least, but I firmly believe you've got to make your own decisions in life...

Anyway the afore mentioned 'grim reeper'... was absolutely fab!!! I actually feel she has had a really raw deal on this forum, also for anyone else considering joining I have a few friends working there at the minute who, absolutely love it. The trips are really hotting up from June, the uniform has been changed and I believe there are many changes to come.

I totally agree with 'BD', try getting a company organised overnight when you have a delivery of 5 - B747's suddenly land on your doorstep. Not to mention the next batch that they are currently in discussions over!

Regards everyone...

Miss Y




:rolleyes: :p :rolleyes: :p

[Moneyshot]

Hi everyone.
I've been reading all of your comments with some degree of interest. I've worked for European as flight deck for some time now and despite a lot of what goes on, I really do enjoy working for the company.
Unfortunately, I have not yet met many of the new people who were brought in for the 747 but I have heard many points of view from cabin crew from my own 737 (or lesser) fleet!
Of course many of the gripes revolve around pay (or lack of it) but it is very rare that someone is so disenchanted with it that they are motivated to move to another airline. I think they see a big picture where they are generally happy with the company and the people they work with. There are also occasional opportunities (mostly during the season) to go away for a week or two on one of the contracts that come up from time to time (sunbathing etc) at £36/day allowances which helps to prevent wandering. I've even heard comments of 'I'm working too much and want to go home now.' (despite the money).
Despite the shortcomings (and some of the personalities) there are moves afoot to improve the airline in most areas with Liason between staff and management. There has been a lot of inertia and poor communication in this so far but I honestly believe that persistence will pay off.
I cannot see, however, that European is all that different to many other more established airlines, many were probably spoilt at BA and Virgin. What's the saying 'Same s**t different airline'?
I'm trying to be fairly positive here and I've called it how I see it. Things will improve soon I know. Give the 747 fleet a chance to get up and running and everything will be fine.

PS I am not management and I do not know Cruella de Ville.

[BIG DICK]

Hi Guys and Gals,

me again. just want to say, (although I've said it before, but for the benefit of everyone else) Miss Yvonne - well done, you've made a good descision and as long as you have patience, understanding and are not hoping for miriclesthen you have chosen a good airline.

Moneyshot,

I would like to take this opportunity to say, "well said" and "here here"

all the best to everyone and keep safe.

BD

[pauls]

Sorry to be a realist - but have been involved since start of EAAC - they are quite possibly THE worst airline ever, four employment tribunals in 7 years (All settled out of court) there could have been alot more. Not only do they comprimise safety co is full of bullies - starts @ the owner. Management- spineless sycophants & Personnel,Ops Drecr, Cabin services, incompetant, crooked brainless, - history of harassment. No excuses-has made promises since day one but just deteriorated NEVER any improvements made. Cruella new but better than others. If you really MUST stay working for them - join a union (They CANT sack you for it - as they say) The TGWU has experience of them & "Their horrendous catalogue of bullying incidents" Some stories - you wouldn't believe. They are under scrutiny & exposure is not far away - you have been warned. You can believe or not you will see

[FLARE DAMIT]

I'am with you on that pauls. It has to be a company with the worst case of personel abuse in a so called first world country ever. It's neponistic hierarchy are only out for themselves with promotion of inadequacies. The boss just wants money for his F1 team, which are only there to fill the back end of the grid in any case, and the continuos illegal changing of days off is just mind blowing, how they manage to survive the CAA audits is beyond me. Try getting back at 4am in the morning and there is no hotac for you, ( the company won't pay for it),get in to a hire car (which of course you have to drive), and head back to your own base 1.5 hrs away. On arrival check in hire car, grab yours and then drive another 45mins home. Nice very nice.Safety of personel, what crap. If you are a female by your self, makes no difference. Good job or what:mad:

[ditzyboy]

WOW! I have read alll the above posts and I am amazed that the company can get away with it. Joining a union is the most important thing the Cabin Crew can do... Collectively you CAN all fight the company's attitudes. You WILL get somewhere.

Sounds like a problem we had but on a possibly larger scale. I work for an airline in Australia and we all joined a union. It was a bit of a battle but not too hard as long as the union had the numbers. That's all you need really for the union to put up a strong fight. Long story but we did it and now we all love our jobs. Our employer is great (as great as an employer can be...) and our conditions are very nice (and they keep on getting better!).

Sounds like the size of the company and type of operation could really be made into somewhere really great to work. So instead of allowing yourself to be negative... Try being positive as a group and you will see how far it gets you. Write constructive, mature letters to unions, the CAA and the company itself over the things which bother you (including safety and operations stuff). It will be a win-win situation for sure. Why would you all want for your employer's inadequacies to be "exposed"? Wouldn't that potentially lead you out of a job?!?

It is your employer / company. Make it work for you.

Negativity never got anyone anywhere!

P.S. - Just thought I'd point out that my company was never un-safe operationally - it was just Flight Attendant pay and conditions (so yes I guess operationally un-safe to a small degree) that were lacking and a bit of an attitude problem towards us.

[sweety]

Well, I can tell you about my experience. Not a great deal, but anyway...

They LIE!:eek: Probably nothing new to those concerned. I applied to them when I was desperate (believe me I wouldn't if I knew about it all then), a woman (she didn't tell her name) called me after a couple of months (:eek: ) and asked me if I had a wide bodied aircraft experience (strange, because all of my experience was written in my CV :confused: ). I said, no. Then she asked ME if I KNEW if Boeing 757 was WIDE BODIED??:confused: Very strange lady. Anyway she told me in the end (after asking me to hold the line, so she could consult with somebody there) that they DO NOT RECRUIT PEOPLE WITH NO WIDE BODIED EXPERIENCE!!!

The best bit: I know for sure they have taken quite a few people with no wide bodied experience...:confused: very confusing.

But it's their loss as far as I am concerned. Now I work for a great airline. Wonderful, gorgeous people, friendly crews etc..
:) :) :)

[wlonjay]

well 4 years ago i was employed to work as a300 purser from stn with EAC! we did the course which was for ex flyers and were then told we would be contacted re uniform fittings.

I got a call 1 week later to be told that the company had decided not to pursue the operation as the a/c need new engines and this would cost more than the operation was worth and lost my job!

I had just left a permanant position in another airline and was left with nothing not even offered EAC shorthaul! I was lucky enough that air scandic were desperate for senior crew and was offered a direct entry position on the A300 as i was already licenced through AIR FOyle who provided both EAC and Air Scandic with the operationg licence!

what can i say watch your back!!!!!!!!!!

[R1X]

Yet again some disturbing reports from recent flights. The image of the company surely counts for a great deal. Then why did one poor girl at the weekend have to be the odd one out because management had not thought to organise the new uniform for her, which the rest of the crew already had. ??? Is this to be a regular event, or is foresight too much to ask ??
Once again the "purser" situation raises its ugly head.
For months it has been who should be and who shouldn't be and who's face fits and who's doesn't. The politics of it all are totally boring and not constructive.
The company has slapped the main crew in the face by having such a huge gap of £4.5k between basic salary which is already ridiculously low.
Some "pursers" are speaking to main crew with no consideration whatsoever and causing resentment. Is the personality change compulsory ? Civility costs nothing and you earn respect not demand it.
Are main crew regarded as serfs !? surely their contribution is just as important as every other member of the team.
Not impressed.

[StanstedSara98]

Dear All,

I worked for European,Stansted based, in 1998 and was the best job I ever had! :) i left to have a family but still miss those days.

As for the money, Like Big Dick said, you don't have to work there! I didn't care for the money, it was enough for me to have the great trips and see a lot of europe, which included meeting many celeberatories including the Lazio football team.
Now they can't be that bad can they:)

All the staff were lovely and professional and many have gone on to work for major airlines.

I think that being professional is down to the individual not the company, and like all airlines, there is always a few bad eggs, which are always caught out.

European 'IS' very professional and its a shame that there are people out there who are (probably retired cabin crew) not up to the grade any more, wishing to bad mouth this company as they were rejected for a job :D

Opps! Enough said...

Regards

Sara.C

[FLARE DAMIT]

Sara98, what crap, you left for a family (apparently), so that could mean that you found your perfect match or you worked in that job for such a short period of time that it was inconsequential to you. Either way times change and so do companies. Now come on back and see if you can hack it again!, I very much doudt it. :mad:

[FCNK]

in my opinion, the company must be up to scratch regarding crewing and personnel issues otherwise the CAA would investigate, unless that is, the CAA are unaware of such behaviour. only suggestion for the crew that work there is to join the union and keep records of out of hours telephone calls.

[Moneyshot]

It seems to me like a few of you (esp Flaredammit) are not qualifying your position on this subject. Many of you are treating this as an opportunity to bad mouth the company, probably over some petty gripe in the past or maybe as a result of second hand info. As current flight deck, I take exception to the view that some of you think that we are unprofessional / unsafe etc. If I thought for one minute that I was flying for a dangerous operator, then you wouldn't see me for dust.
All airlines have their problems and European has its fair share. But they're working on it. I know because I work for them and keep my ear to the ground.
Let's have more positivity folks. What would you do to cure European's problems??? Give me solutions not problems.
Sara98. Long time no see. Hope everythings OK.

[VENUS]

Hi Guys

Just been reading the post about EAAC and i am sorry big dick (and i know who you are) but it takes a fool not to see that what people are saying is true, and only someone without any other options would defend them, i too am new to european and have sussed it out very quickly as should you when you decide to remove your blinkers. But also i must pat you on the back for being an optomist it's a good quality but i do feel it is wasted at european.

safe and happy skies

:o EAAC

[YYC F/A]

EAL are interviewing at Gatwick on Friday 7th and Monday 10th of June.

Interesting post here, I'm thinking of coming to EAL to do a 6 month season.... I am primarily looking for a temporary position with flying on the 747, and EAL looks like it could be an adventure if nothing else!

Can anyone give info on the typical schedule F/A's fly, i.e the days on and off pattern, and typical flying. Do you have any 'bidding' for days off / trips worked etc.? How easy is it to drop or pick up shifts? How much rest do you get in US / Canada after trans-at flt over from UK?

Also, there was talk about pay.... what's the definitive amount with allowances etc.?

Finally, how many crew are there RIGHT NOW, and are there any opportunities for Purser / In Charge? (I have previous wide body and In Charge experience).

Many thanks from all you EAL'ers!

[bbq]

I have been offered a position with European and am in 2 minds whether to accept. I have see the "goss" on here and it all seems pretty neg. but am willing to have a challenge

Have a few friends that have just started there and they say its chaos but hey are happy to go with it... they are pretty experienced and have encountered these things in previous companies Big D you were one of them!!! and 10/10 for being positive...

Only thing holding me back is the temp. contract thing, low wage as main crew, and a temp contract...

Will need to thing long and hard.....

[VENUS]

Hi there guys

I posted a reply to the EAAC notice board earlier today and it's gone or maybe i posted it in the wrong forum?

If by any chance anyone is surfing forums can you let me know if it pops up, DOH!

safe flying happy skies
:o :o :o :o :o

[VENUS]

:o :o :o

sorry guys forget that that last message i found it HOW TIRED!

Well thats european for you.

YYC F/A you wanted to know what a typical roster is like,80% is sby on a hand written shared page, you do get called out though mainly for night stops in europe at the mo,one crew went out on an unbelievable trip as two aircrafts went tech one after the other and the crew went out of hours and minimum minimum rest back at lgw to go out again the next morning.

The aircraft finally took off still with the problem and was later fixed on the ground down route

When the crew got down route as usual no transport so taxi's flagged down only to take them to the wrong hotel.

When the crew were told of the pick up time it was explained that Eaac had not extended the check out time and the crew would have to leave there rooms and go on duty a few hours earlier.

They arrived back at lgw after 12 hours or so to drag cases and trollies through the south term and on the shuttle to the meridien hotel to have mimimum mimimum rest to operate back out to a european destination that same afternoon.(what).

And of course after much time wasting more taxi's flagged down.
The crew returned to the aircraft after a nightstop after minimum rest ooh and of course not forgetting the longhaul transatlantic, to find only more delays.Some had 1 day off others sby after the trip.

I think most of that crew are about to do another longhaul nightstop.

So if you think you can do this then this certainly is the company for you. GOOD LUCK.:eek:

[YYC F/A]

Thanks Venus!

I've tried to pvt message you, but don't know if it worked.

So, mostly Standby rosters... What about the days on off pattern...? I was really trying to find some part time flying, but most carriers are only looking for full time. So, in the absence of that, at EAAC can you block lots of days off together and put all you're flying close together? What's the most day's off you get in a row? Do they allow you to trade shifts with other crew?

The flying sounds tough sometimes, but I've been doing some flying overseas, and it's even rougher at times... I've been getting lots of time off, but when you're flying, you fly hard! 3 flights outbound, a total FLIGHT time of 11hrs (thats a 13.5 hr duty day), with only 9 hrs rest, by the time you get the shuttle to the hotel and check-in, you're down to about 8.5hrs, quick bite to eat, wash face, less than 6hrs sleep before up again in the morning! Then do the same the next day in reverse back to home base! That's hard! At least EAAC is bound by the UK CAA regs, which are more strict than overseas in relation to max duty day and min rest etc.

Do you like the 747? I've flown on some widebody, but never operated on the 747, only passengered :D Would love to fly on it tho' - the upper deck position is pretty sweet :)

Thanks for the tips and stuff.... Safe landings! :cool:

[VENUS]

Hi YYC F/A

The days off thing are a little bit of a grey area so far as your roster is never what is printed.

Days off are changed all the time and you are usually called by operations on your day off or on a sby and usually after it has finished and late at night.

The crew i mentioned in my last post lost a day off because they landed after midnight, so one day off and then out to canada for 24hrs and i think they get 22hrs back at base to go off and do a another 9 day trip with days off down route.

The aircrafts are very old and falling to bits inside literally. But i'm sure they were fab in there hay day.

At the moment there is not part time and you can not save all your days off together basically you do what they want and when they want.

At the end of the day only you can make the final decission, we can only advise you on what we know.

So good luck and i hope this helps a lttle.



;) Safe skies and happy flying

[StanstedSara98]

Dear All,
The back biting still continues! :(
It makes me mad to see that half the people on here slate the company but work for them... hence will not leave their name as concerned they will be found out and lose there job, it just doesn't make sense to me.
To all those concerned who still work there, move on if its that bad! :eek:

Moneyshot, e-mail me, long time no hear..
[email protected]

[MR WIBBLE]

Hello Boys and Girls and fellow citizens of Wibble,

Well said Sara,

I would like to agree with you here, When I was at EAL I have had the time of my life and feel that this is one of the best companies that I have worked for.

It is nice to see some other pople being positive about EAL as well (the likes of BIG DICK and Moneyshot). As for some of the others on this topic you all hve quite obviously had some bad experiences with the company, but an airline would'nt be an airline if everyone was kept happy all of the time, don't you agree?

VENUS - you seen to be a bit upset with BD, hope it is nothing personal like you seem to be making it. how about identifying yourself?

Anyone that is thinking about working for them, as long has you have nothing to lose and are up for a big challenge then go for it, you won't make look back, unless you get treated like VENUS!!

[R1X]

Dear Wibble,
Venus is only telling it like it is!

[MR WIBBLE]

Hello Boys and Girls and fellow citizens of Wibble,

another person who has had a bad experience eh? I'm sure there are more people there who are having a better time of it than VENUS and yourself. Why don't you both leave the company if you have that much of a problem with it?

[YYC F/A]

Hi All

European are reported to be doing the flying for Canada Air Charter. this would require UK EAAC crews to work out of Canada to various european / worldwide destinations. the rumour is that they will use 1 or 2 747's with British crews, with layovers in YYZ/YMX for 2 weeks flying Canadian pax to Rome etc.

Any one at EAAC know anymore?

[MR WIBBLE]

Hello Boys and Girls and fellow citizens of Wibble,

All starts at the end of the month.

[deniset3000]

Seems to be a lot of confusion as to who is doing what in regards to the CanadaAirCharter flying. I have it on good authority from someone who works at CanadaAirCharter in YMX that European is only supplying the IFD and Front End - i(e Brits or EU employees) and the rest of the crew will be made up by Canadians already trained. However others at Eurpoean are saying all the crew will come from them. I'd like to know whats what as I have an interview with European with the hopes of flying out of Canada - as I'm from there but luckily hold a EU passport too??? I'm confused.

[MR WIBBLE]

Hello Boys and Girls and fellow citizens of Wibble,

Initially the all the crew will be supplied by EAAC but only until the canniadian crews get trained up an the aircraft. however that being said the flight deck, IFD and purser positions will still be EAAC crew.

Hope this helps.

[YYC F/A]

DeniseT - I've sent you an email... I'm in same pos as you... I'd be looking at commuting back and forward to Canada, but if EAAC were already flying to / from and ex. Canada, that would be perfect.

EAAC employees - how does it work with travel benefits (if any). I know that they don't fill all the jumpseats on the 747 - can you 'jumpseat' in uniform or otherwise if you're commuting or positioning?

Also, anyone know if they're still looking for direct entry Purser / CSD's? Called personnel, and they are very vague!!!


:confused: :confused:


Thx x millions!



:)

[FCNK]

are canadians allowed to work on british registered aircraft?

[YYC F/A]

There are no restrictions on Canadians working for British Carriers, as long as they have the requisite working permits / visa or British Residency / EU or British Passport.

In relation to Canadians working on British Registered aircraft, there is no restriction unless they are employed in the UK and based in the UK (then it is as above). For instance, if EAAC wanted to hire Canadian staff to be based in Toronto or Montreal, I see no reason why they could not do this... Air Atlanta hires British crews to be based out of Gatwick on TF (Icelandic) registered aircraft. Canadian crew are presently working on US registered aircraft operating on behalf of Canadian airlines on a wet lease agreement.

I was invited to interview with EAAC (I hold dual Canadian and British citizenship), but I decided I wanted to be based in Canada with a Canadian airline. If EAAC were to ever hire crew (even temporary) here, they would have hundreds of qualified experienced flight crew to choose from as there are many Canada 3000 flight attendants who are still unemployed since C3 went under.

As discussed earlier, there is some talk of Canada Air Charter hiring their own crew for the EAAC 747's, EAAC to provide Flt Deck and IFD. Longer term, Canada Air Charter will need french speaking FA's on those flights, especially for Montreal flights, and for flights to Abidjan and Accra.

For Canadian carriers, it is mandatory to have either a French qualified flt attendant on board, or to have automated French announcements for flts to and from Canada. I don't know how this would affect EAAC with their 'Canada Air Charter' flts though.

Just my tuppence worth!

[VENUS]

hi guys

Thanks R1x for your support.

Mr wibble and Stansteadsara98 thank you so much for your advice i took it (not) and will be leaving EAC at the end of July.

And as for revealing my identity, YOU FIRST!!!!!!


ENJOY

:p :) :p :) :p

[R1X]

Their loss Venus, hope to follow you a.s.a.p.

[Noddy Staltern]

The current plan revolves around the following:

3 EAAC 747s to be based in YMX. Flight deck and IFD from EAAC. Remaining crew Canadian. 100 Canadian crew have already been hired and training is taking place at the moment. More EAAC crew are likely to be involved in the early stages for training.

The first 747 is due to fly out to YMX on Fri 14 Jun. This is in doubt at the moment as the Canadian authorities have rescinded EAACs 5th freedom rights from Canada (the right for a foreign carrier to operate from a second country to a third).

3 routes are planned for the 747 at present:

Montreal - Lisbon - Madrid - Montreal

Montreal - Rome - Tunis - Rome - Montreal

Newark - Montreal - Dakar - Abidjan and reverse

These routes will be virtually impossible to crew with current EAAC (flight deck) manning levels - 6 Sandford rotations per week from LGW and MAN are still going ahead from the end of this month.

There is no news on current plans for crew basings in YMX, but it is not likely to involve EAAC cabin crew for very long.

[betty boop]

HELLO NODDY

Just been reading all the gossip thats been flying around and ive heard a completly different story.they wont be flying to europe but south pacific more like,they will be useing our crews to start with cos they havent trained up the crews out in canada yet and it will be a 3wks trip to start then the next lot will go out, then once they have trainned up they will use only our f/d and IFD and our Pursers,

happy flying!!:p :p

[Noddy Staltern]

Hardly a completely different story! Only difference is the destinations. There is no South Pacific. There are some South American and Caribbean destinations but those will be done by a DC10 and not the EAAC a/c.

[jayne]

does anyone know if g.c actually went for the job. Sounds like a dud to me. No offence to those who work for the airline. If all these people have the same strories to tell then doesn't that tell you something?

[EUROPEAN SKY]

Dear Moaning Minnies,
Just a note to say I joined this company and OK there are things that could be done better, but this is a good time to be in. I think it will be a success.
EUROPEAN SKY

[Xenia]

Well, decided to merge your post with this topic European Sky.
Glad to see somebody is enjoying it :)
Keep smiling :D

[nojacketsrequired]

Moneyshot,
I work for BA and and have met crew downroute from VS,'spoiled',
I think not,paid a fair living wage yes.
What I have read about EAAC leaves me feeling angry why
companies treat people like this and take advantage of so many people wish to fly so they just screw them.
It took me several goes to get into BA but it seems it was worth the wait.

From what I've read above Geordie,stay clear pet!!!!!.:D
NJR

[EUROPEAN SKY]

Unless you WORK for the airline dont judge it. I worked for BA before and found them impersonal and the majority of the crews I worked for were pretentious and two faced and false. At least at European there is a feeling of "camaradery" which is lacking in British Airways . All you BA people moan about is your allowances and trivial things like the next BMW you are after. I left BA Purser LHR Worldwide fleet after 7 years (with my nice AUDI Cabriolet-Thanks BA), tired of the falseness and bitchiness of my "colleagues"
EUROPEAN SKY

[nojacketsrequired]

ES. I am a CSD at BA on Eurofleet and have the pleasure of working with the vast majority of excellent and friendly crew but yes there is the odd one.

I also worked on w/wide fleet for four years and also found most of the crew fine.

There may be some of them for whatever reason feel they're a little better than other crew but they still have to come into the real world and get out of nappies.

I and most of BA crew do not feel we're any better that anyone else and think this is more in the heads of those who think it in the first place.We all do the same job we all serve tea and coffee
and in general we're all doing the job because we want to.
Regardless of the company people work for I treat all crew with respect and as equals.

The message you give is your view but on this occasion I cannot agree with it .
Maybe since you left that mentallity has gone to,I hope so because there is no room for it.

Hope not to meet you at the traffic lights in your BA Audi as I'll be in my S reg Astra!!!!!!.

Different airlines,different uniforms,same job,just enjoy it and leave the bitter pill on the table.

NJR.

[MR WIBBLE]

Hello Boys and Girls and fellow citizens of Wibble,

PAthers,

I must agree with BIG DICK on on of the first posts on this topic and remind you again that although the money is pretty S**T at the company you just sound bitter and twisted and just want to take it out on people as you quite obviously are upset at not being a direct entry IFD. YOU NEW THE MONEY WAS S**T WHEN YOU GOT THE INTERVIEW AND THEN ACCEPTED THE JOB SO WHY DON'T YOU GROW UP AND GET A NEW RATTLE. European I guess and most other airlines don't need crew like you.

I am just guessing now but were you ex- AML / JMC crew where life was nice and rosie for the 5 years of operation?

Although I don't work for EAAC, I have a number of friends that work there and they are all enjoying it. I have an interview soon so we'll see what happens.

As for your bermuda flight I know for a fact that you were paid an extra daily allowance on top of your flight allowance and that was cash when you got downroute.

As for you rosters why are you taking it up with the ppruner's? we DON'T work for Eaac and therefore can't take any action for you. have you tried the rostering manager or the crewing manager? You may get more luck there.

Maybe you are the one that needs a "firework up the ar%e" to get you moving, preferably out of European Airlines.

[Xenia]

Let's try to keep the topic interesting... I can't honestly see this going on for long :rolleyes:

[laidback]

Come on Xenia, sure there's a mixed bag, but until it gets fairly resolved its going to go on.
ES, not all who suffer moan, when you've had some of the worst let us know how you feel then. The ex BA's are good, but the BOH "elite" create "atmosphere", so its much better without them.
NJS, your face must fit, others with longer time in are still waiting.
BD knows his stuff on the extra dough. Pity its not normal practice, the cost of being messed about down route cuts into the basic.
BD don't shout too much about the s**t rate until you know all the history..things were said but never fulfilled.
Moneyshot was ok, without decent flight decks the job would be hell...ok it is, with blue patches.
what does the roster say ?..so we know where we are not !

[laidback]

Sorry , scratch BD, meant Wibble

[EAL]

Be careful what you write.

I know certain management read this site!

I can idenitify a few of you, so please be careful or you may lose your "precious" jobs!

[nojacketsrequired]

EAL go get a life mate.Whats your ambition a fast track to management?.

Well you just might make it with your attitute and intimidation of your own employees!!.

What's wrong?,some of the comments strike a nerve?,a little bit close to the truth?.

I hope your message is treated with the total contempt it deserves.

With comments like yours, not only will you lose present employee's but perhaps the very people who one day want to join you in the future. :mad:.

Use the carrot not a big stick.Keep your 'bully' tacktics off this forum.

NJR. (Treat people how you like to be treated yourself) :D

[Driver Jake]

MESSAGE TO "PATHERS"

This is a post to the so called "PAthers"..... yes you know who you are....I think the post has now been removed.

Well as I am the real Paula Atherton, I suppose this is who you were trying to get at you sad little person... Why so jealous? That's all we can put it down to.

So if the person pretending to be me would like to come forward.... I bet you don't. Why don't you get a life and leave me to work for EAAC in peace. A job that I enjoy very much and a company I have also wanted to work for, for 2 and a half years, a company, which most of you will not understand, that I have every intention of retiring with. (I am 32 and not out of the nearest rest home as some of you may wonder!) Why are you trying to get me fired????

As for EAAC, yes they have had there hiccups but who wouldn't trying to run a long haul operation, alot of work being adhoc they do the best they can until the system is totally foolproof and everybody is used to it there are going to be teething troubles. Make your own decisions....Do not listen to the people on this site who seem to think they know everything about the company, ask the people who actually do. Yes, the pay may not be fantastic, but this isn't a large scheduled operator, with one or two trips it actually looks quite reasonable at the end of the month! It's worth tgoing to work with such excellent people; therefore being able to go downroute and have a good laugh. You decide.

Just to set you straight "PAthers" I earn £624 per month at present, I went to Bermuda not Benuda... you're spelling isn't too good is it!!! I also got promoted after my first operating flight and I DO NOT steal from company aircraft or anywhere else I may add. So if you are going to pretend to be me at least get all your facts straight you pathetic little person... A word of warning - I have actually made a fair few friends within this company so watch you're back....We are looking for you.

My email if any one would like further info: [email protected]

[laidback]

EAL, I hope management do read the site, if views could be expressed without fear of reprisals and people would listen with an open mind then this forum would not have gone on so long.
For some, the furore created earlier has paid off. Others have left, which doesn't help. Those who encourage people to leave certainly don't help. People will put up with a lot of **** when with a crew they like, but bias and thoughtlessness from above or other sections does not unite, it only divides.
( remarks about rosters don't help ?? ). There's a lot of good people come into this airline, many are not rewarded fairly for their ability or even acknowledged they have it.

[skyboy1919]

Hi guys,

Not been with European to long but decided, what the hell, I would let you all know what I think about my new employer. So far things have been a little disorganised, but in fairness to the airline, they did tell me it was gonna be like that, they have made a massive leap from 737 to 747 operation, and in a very short time too.
Promotion has been a big bone of contention for a lot of people, some being told that they did not recruit direct entry, others being recruited in Purser or IFD roles, and I cannot really see how they decided who to promote, lots of people with experience, some even on B747 but its not always them getting the jobs!
But so far, everyone I have met has been really nice, the airline has a nice, relaxed feel about it, and the "old" EAAC crew have been friendly, and not at all guarded about who they will or will not talk to.Their is a lot of moaning going on, and yes the wages are pretty poor, but they have not changed since the interview. I have been working a lot, and so far although a little unorganised, good fun on the whole, the hotels down route are good, better than I have stayed in, and I worked for a big u.k airline before this.
People are friendly, everyone approachable, never worked for an airline where you get base managers and trainers mobile phone numbers before, and they do answer them when you call with no attitude or temper. Airline paid for all of my jabs, gave me a daily food allowance while training, and put me up in a hotel for the course, even over the weekends!!!!! Not bad if you ask me.
I know we all come to work to earn money, but I think so far, they have kept their word, pay is what they said it was, people are cool, apart from the one or two who don't wanna be there. a/c not bad, service o.k better than some, my only gripe, and their had to be one, is that some crew still do not have a uniform, which I think looks a little cheap, and unprofessional. But again, not the airlines fault, down to the company that provide them. so yes o.k. their are some thinks that could do with improving, but dare I say it, Iam enjoying my time with them, and think they have a good future, just got to weather this storm, and all will be good if you ask me. Its not your average Airline, but some of us don't want same routes, same passengers, same crap, at least with ad-hoc you get the chance to see places you never normally would. And lastly, I don't think that she ( meaning grim, as some people are calling her ) is that bad, pretty cool considering what she is doing at the moment, my god, you should have met the load of w**kers at my last airline!!! she is like a pussy cat compared to them.
I just hope those that are not enjoying it, leave, and soon, because its not fair on those that are enjoying it, and could lower an already pretty low crew moral. And thats not fair, nobody wants to work in that environment, just make the best of it, and either leave, or learn to love it. But hay, whats that age old saying, same crap different uniform!!!
Happy flying guys.
Whatever floats ya boat.:p

[MR WIBBLE]

Hello Boys and Girls and fellow citizens or Wibble,

Well said Skyboy, I must give you a big HERE HERE on your posting. It does seem like most people are against European and it makes a refreshing change to see some people being positive about the company. lets keep it up.

I had my interview recently and as you say they are all very nice people down there. I have a good impression and a good feeling about the place so we shall see what happens.

Look forward to meeting you, Driver Jake, Geordie Crawley, BD and all the other positive people down there.

The sad little losers out there, why don't you stop whining and grow up. if you have a gripe with the company why don't you join a union or talk to the person/s concerned at Bournemouth rather than the ppruner's.

[EUROPEAN SKY]

I've read Skyboy1919's write up and I have to agree with all points raised. I've just got back from Orlando and have had a good trip. As always, only people who want to compare this airline with their previous one are the ones finding the airline coming up short. :)
European Sky

[BIG DICK]

thought I'd let you all know that I'm still here and I thought I'd say hello to all my Fans!

Life is good, work at European is good, and things seem to be going in the right direction.

Regards all,

BD

[RODDERS]

seen a posting in the reporting points forum that maybe of interest, I'm sure it will expand rapidly over the coming weeks. along the lines of EAAC being taken to court again for discrimination.

have a look for yourselves. seems like they are having alot of luck in PPRUNE! some very positive postings.......

[Mooney]

Why not join a low cost airline? Cabin crew at Go usually take home around 1400 a month as a Number 1 (usually promoted in 1 yr to this position)... Good stable rosters.

[Katie]

http://www.euroav.com/Pages/euroaviationhomepage.html

and they are hiring for new cabin crew.

http://www.euroav.com/Pages/vanancy.html-check out the uniforms!

[MR WIBBLE]

Hello Boys and Girls and fellow citizens or Wibble,

Katie,

Thought I'd let you know that the http://www.euroav.com/pages/euroaviationhomepage.html as well as the other link you put is still out of date and hasn't been updated for at least 8 months as there is no mention of the Boeing 747 arrivals and they still talk about the BAC 1-11's on there as well, (the BAC 1-11 fleet has been grounded for some time due to the noise and poloution levels exceed the CAA specified requirements). The website eaac.co.uk is also out of date for the same reasons as above.

The uniforms that are shown on the website are the old uniforms and except for a very small number of crew who are waiting on the new uniforms you dont see the old one anymore.

MzGuilty,

As long as you go with a good positive mind and prepare for the unexpected then you will enjoy yourself. It is the friendliest airline that I have come across and all the crews I have flown with have been excellent, (exept the odd one that you get everywhere). It is a good and fun airline that has a good feel about it.

[goflypaul]

SO WHERE DO WE APPLY FOR THIS JOB ?
:)

[Sweeny Todd!]

Have a look a the 747's on http://www.airliners.net

[Cheshire cat EGHH]

Hello.

I currently work in Manual ops (yes i am the sad git who sits in the office in the sim centre updating jep manuals all day).

I work next to the training rooms for the cabin crew, and have spoken to a few of the trainees who are now online and they all seem to be perfectly happy.

European is a good job if you are just starting in aviation as it gives you a good knowledge of different countrys and routes. Plus its not really a BOH-AGP(malaga)-BOH (unless you are palmair) you can go from bournemouth to places such as in the EEU - southern africa - jersey - spain.

And for the 747's its normally western coutrys such as florida and canada (at the mo).

I have been with EAC for 4 months now and i love it.

Advise to anyone looking to work for EAC, go for it, and dont listen to some of the people on here.

[TJ747]

I'VE HEARD THAT THESE KIND OF THINGS HAVE HAPPENED BEFORE.
I DON'T WANT TO START BITCHING OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT....BUT I HAVE HEARD THAT SOME CREW HAVE HAD TO DRIVE FROM MAN-LGW AFTER A LONGHAUL FLIGHT.
I MEAN...YOU HAVE BEEN UP ALL NIGHT...ON YOUR FEET...U FEEL LIKE A ZOMBIE AFTER LONG HAUL AND THEN EXPECTED TO DRIVE URSELF BACK TO BASE. "ITS DANGEROUS" TO DO THAT KIND OF DRIVE AFTER SUCH A LONG FLIGHT.
DOES THE COMPANY NOT PROVIDE TRANSPORTATION AFTER SUCH A FLIGHT BACK TO BASE....AT LEAST U CAN SLEEP OR SOMETHING ON THE 4HR+ JOURNEY.

CAN SOMEONE CONFIRM FOR ME IF THIS IS TRUE OR NOT.
HOW DOES THIS COUNT TOWARDS UR HOURS....R U EVEN STILL ON DUTY...I DON'T KNOW.

HOPE SOMEONE CAN HELP.

MANY THX
TJ747

[Luke341]

I know everyone slags off EAF and their staff all the time; BUT.... from a passengers point of view; are the cabin crew really any good?????
L;)

[RIAB]

To answer some of the questions from the last few posts:

One of the (few?) things this company does well is to look after transport needs after a long-haul flight. People are NOT expected to drive from (eg) MAN-LGW after a long duty. If someone returns to a base other than their own, either hotac is provided, or a taxi to their base. There will be (and are) cock-ups (eg taxi provided when you have asked for hotac, or vice-versa) but these can usually be sorted-out amicably. Positioning after a flight still counts as duty as is paid as duty.

Communications are often very poor, both within the Ops/Crewing office, and from that office to crews elsewhere. This does result in some huge gaffes - the story about the crew driving from MAN and being turned-back half-way is typical. It happens, and is very frustrating, but it is not happening all the time.

Cheshire Cat - you are doing a great job! I would not want your job for all the beer in England, but we really do appreciate you!!

The crews at EAAC are excellent. There are some superb people there on the flight-deck and in the cabin. They might not earn a lot of money but they sure know how to go out and spend it! The average age is older than most UK airlines (except BA!), but there is a very broad background and socially it is a very good company to work for. From a passengers point of view, the crew are easily as good as anywhere else, and probably more experienced than is the average.

EAAC has roughly quadrupled in size in the last 6 months. They have gone from a small outfit flying 1-11s around Europe, to a company operating 5 747s worldwide (as well as 737s). This has not been without problems. Ops and Crewing are understaffed and lack experience of long-haul. The traditional 'European way' of getting things done is not working for long-haul, but there are experienced people making sensible inputs, and things will improve slowly.

EAAC will not be everybody’s cup-of-tea – I don’t yet know if it is mine. If you enjoy a challenge and are prepared to be flexible, it could be a lot of fun!

[Luke341]

I always thought they were quite a high-class, exlusive airline... if you look through holiday brochures you'll find its difficult to get a flight with EAF.
They fly to lesser known european destinations such as Calvi, Bastia, Chania etc as well as Mahon, Faro and Alicante.
Don't they do pilgimages to Lourdes, also???
They use their 737-200's for this European work.
:rolleyes: :cool: :eek:
L

[Cheshire cat EGHH]

Thanks RIAB, C**l and I are working really hard to get it all correct. Its really nice of you to say that. Thank you.

If your ever in the Sim centre pop in our office!.

Beckxy.

[A. P. Yu]

What an absolutely hilarious read! Thanks chaps / chapesses

[EUROPEAN SKY]

I have 16 years experience, 7 of which were on the very 747's EAAC have now. I was Purser 747 at BA on these jumbos. I was told initially I would be Purser at EAAC. When I began my course I was given a Main Crew contract. I watched other courses start after me and watched some on those courses enter the company as Pursers and IFD's.

I sat quiet-ish for a while, and nothing happenned. I am still main crew. I cannot afford to stay at this company much longer on £8,000. If nothing happens by October I will leave. Seems that if you text the right people or "kiss-ass" then you get Purser. I am not one of those people. I do things professionally, as I am sure many will find that fly with me.

The company itself is learning. I yesterday got a computerised roster. I still have no ID, I believe the incompetent mention NO NAMES, please! £6 has been relieved of arranging these.

It is purely through good will that this company operates. The old fashioned "camaradery" exists, however EAAC should not rely on this camaradery to last forever. They need to pull up their socks(as the recent CAA visit proved). I have been told that I will be promoted once the numbers are sorted out. Surely this was known earlier and it is only by "having a word" with the person in charge of promotions, that my experience has been recognised. If they wish to attract and RETAIN people, they must be prepared to pay more to Main Crew,(as half main crew were once Pursers on other airlines and feel undervalued).
EUROPEAN SKY

[RIAB]

Those working for EAAC (or thinking of it) may be interested to know that the Operations Director has been moved sideways and replaced. This is probably the best possible news (apart from a pay rise!) that we could have.

There is now a real chance that sensible decisions can be made and the company can progress in the right direction. There are apparently a lot of happy, smiley faces at BOH today!

[EUROPEAN SKY]

Rumour has it that EAAC have Australia in their sights. I hope they organise it well as it will be a little bit different than just sending guys out to Orlando to maintain the aircraft. I hope they know what it envolves.;)

[OPS GIMP]

Nice One Blame ops/crewing because you have not got a pay rise.
Blending in with the european blame culture quite well...

I dont know if you have visited the head office recently, but the operations department is heavily understaffed. Information passed to crew is only what crewing has been informed. But we dont complain and just get on with it till the job is done...

p.s. if you could organise the orgy could we all have an invite? we dont get out much at the moment.
:p

[Cayman]

Being now Cabin Crew and ex Op's I do know what you lot in crewing are going though. It is hard with change the changes arriving every minute or so.

I am hopeful that things will change for the better very soon. I actually received a call from the airport pass man today saying that he had not received a referance, only 4 weeks after I had called all to check that they had sent back a reply (All said yes) As it was the one 'lost' referance was faxed over. Still waiting for confirmation of pass but hopeful before next flight.

Things can only get better so I hope that everyone will stay for the next month or so, beside where else is there to go ? It is a laugh after all.

C

PS Please Mr Gimp can I have the next 6 day MCO trip ;)

[EUROPEAN SKY]

Ops Gimp. I admire what you all do in Ops. It must be hard there at the moment. Whenever I ring crewing/Ops, I am always spoken to respectflly and your people are always polite. As for my ID, I am STILL waiting to hear anything about it. I joined the company May 27th and I know for a fact all previous employers have replied as I chased them all up. So I have no idea what the chappy(and you know who I mean) is doing with references.Maybe he's lost them on his drives to and from Edinburgh to Bournemouth!

[UFGBOY]

Couldn't possibly comment.......

The sooner the old f$$t is put out to pasture the better

Acabin service manual would be nice as well.....

had a friend who flew on MAN/SFB recently; said the 'Premium' service was sloppy with untrained (her words) crew doing thier best but with little direction from SCCM

But then you can't polish a t**d can you........

[Cheshire cat EGHH]

I really do like the old ops director, he's fine, i never noted him doing much wrong, he is/was very overstressed with the payload from the 747's. I think you might find that the ops director has nothing to do with the flight deck or cabin crews salery's.

I live on the same salery as the cabin crew, and I am coping fine with it, if you like your joob you will live with it, if you dont then find another company to work for... only the people who whinge about salery's are normally the ones who WONT get one!. Yes common fact.

I think its actully very VAIN, to whinge about salerys... I mean, I am a begineer yes I have PPL and know aviation very well and have now 2 years experience, but if you prove you are worth more... then your boss will notice and give you a pay rise.. you dont get a pay rise for simply doing your job....

YOU GET A PAY RISE BECAUSE YOUR BOSS BELIVES YOU ARE WORTH IT!. and not being vain, becuase you think you are worth it.

FACT OF LIFE... LEARN FROM IT!!!!!!!

[Moneyshot]

Classic and Cheshire...
I'm afraid that you're both suffering from a distinct lack of understanding as far as European is concerned. You will both be given a pay rise when the company thinks you are about to ****** off somewhere else. Don't let your own misguided definition of hard work or loyalty cloud your vision on this issue. I have worked for European for 5 years now and my own definitions in this respect have altered significantly over that period. Although I like the company and enjoy working here, I am very realistic in terms of pay and conditions. I despise anyone who would seek to spoil my way of life or suppress my monetary gain. This can be said of our last Ops Director who, it is said, went in at the lowest bid possible in the last board meeting where pay rise was an issue. Let's not suck up to him or any of his ilk. I think that the new bloke will be a breath of fresh air.
It's all about market forces folks. Let's not cloud it with talk of Loyalty and honourable things. European will. Get real!!

[Cheshire cat EGHH]

You have never been a manager have you!.

Of course they would consider a pay rise if you where considering moving, the company is suffering from lack of experience where the 747's are concerned (which would be the same in ANY COMPANY NOT JUST EUROPEAN) and we need all the expertise in all the different roles as we can get.

For anyone who is reading this thread who is thinking of joining european.... PAY is not as bad as these moaning little minies are whidging about.

And for you lot who are working for european.... grow up!! if the pay is that bad, how come you stay and "indure" the "bad pay".

Get a life and stop being soo vain.

so a big.. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Cheshire cat EGHH]

Here here, classic. :D :D :D

[MaxMet]

CLASSIC AVIATOR


I think that there is always bitterness shown towards ex-AML crew from people who never had the chance to do what they did. You should realise that they bitch about European not because they had it easy and didn't work hard but because EAAC is poor to say the least. Wake up and smell the roses. And as for the future of EAAC?

[Cheshire cat EGHH]

European is real flying for real people, it is not superficial flying for superficial people.

I couldn't agree with you more, european is full of bimbo's, and "bigupme" pilots who think the more they moan the more we will listen, as if!.

If you want to go further in european then I would stop these derogatory comments anf think hard about what you really want out of a job, you may find yourself rethinking your options.

LIFE ISN'T MEANT TO BE COMFORTABLE.. ANOTHER FACT.. LEARN!!!

[luddite]

'An adventure', yes, that certainly describes life at EAAC. Do not enter without a VERY LARGE sense of humour. You may even enjoy it.
;)

[StanstedSara98]

Well said Classic Aviator.....
Hope everyone is well, missing flying & European soooo much
Sara x

[EUROPEAN SKY]

The company is improving slowly but surely. It gets kicks up the backside by the CAA. The latest kick is grounding all crew with no ID. The last kick was CAA on board to check things and seeing that EAAC sends crew to work with no uniform-Suddenly we all get packages of uniform through the post.

[Gotta-FOnow]

Any truth to the rumour that the grim reaper aka cruella is going in october??? What she gonna do go back to America

Whats happened to the Canada flights heard something that the canadian gov has said no to that operation.????

See lots of pro plus european people must be the golden girls, come on get real european needs a big kick up the behind and get real Luddite as you quoted you need a real sense of humour isn't that a understatement and also a large bank ballance before you join.

As for the pilots know personally quite a few of them and they are very nice genuine guys, friendly and approachable. and as for European being Real flying "GET A GRIP" No proper First Class / Business Class training to any standard and as for the VIP flights could do better by going to tesco's and ordering it myself its a joke "Mike Fox" Service it isnt better than flying in Business Class to Europe it certainly isn't upto VIP Standards by any means

For all you people at european just waiting for something better to come along hope it happens soon for you, you all have my sympathies.

Happy Flying Gotta Go

:cool: :D :D :D

[MaxMet]

It would appear that you have a blockage.


I suggest some Karvol.








MM..

[EUROPEAN SKY]

The premium seats in A zone of the B747 are old BA Club seats. As for the service, it really does not warrant a specific course. The passengers sitting there are not the usual First Class types, they have only paid an extra £99 to sit there. We don't intend to offer a First Class service, just an upgraded service.

[Gotta-FOnow]

Sorry European Sky must disagree with you on that one it does not matter how much someone has paid its the experience of the flight that matters, and having someone who serves you who has the finese and knowledge of the product and service routines that does make a whole lot of difference. And it does show when someone doesn't have that experience.

So come on spill the beans is cruella going to leave European or not????

And also just to clarify things not knocking anyones experience from previous airlines as to their Business/First class training as do know quite a few ex BA, AML, Saudia

[EUROPEAN SKY]

I worked in A zone to see what product we offered. The product itself is OK what is lacking is the equipment to do the service-no milk jugs, small coffee/tea pots, little things like that would make the service better. I used to be at BA and do First etc and although not quite the same, there wasn't much in it at the end when me and my colleage had finished. I agree previous experience in First Class would help, just that at the moment European cannot give us the equipment to do the job properly.

[R1X]

Dear ES, if the equipment is not to your liking or standards!! then you'll just have to improvise and give more of your personality.
The key thing is to send them on their way happy with the belief that they are special and have had their money's worth. I've had no complaints, quite the contrary.

[Mirrorkid]

R1X, how right you are!! You are obviously an intelligent & accomplished flyer! Have you voted yet???

:cool: :cool: :cool:

[Gotta-FOnow]

ES does that now show you how unprofessional EAAC is then no equipment yet, how long will it take them to get it after all havn't they had the 747 approval since late jan/ early feb and still not got it right yet.

good voting so far mostly not impressed!!

Have they trained the IFD's how to use the IFE properly yet or are they still using the handout done by a junior crew member who had to show the IFD's how to set it up????

:D

[Sick Squid]

This thread has been running for quite some time now. We've been keeping a very close eye on it; spirit of debate and strong opinions, but usually enough balance and give-and-take to keep things on track.

Sitting here, in my sunny internet cafe, I've just noticed a turn for the worse on it, and moved a whole batch of threads down to the admin. forum. And the reason is simple.....so simple, I'm going to put it in bold type....

Under cover of anonymity, some of you are making accusations that can potentially carry legal consequences, either for yourselves or for the owners of the site.

Usually, I write such crossing-over-line down to lack of awareness, but some of the people posting really should know better. If you wish to make accusations against a company or named individual that refers to illegal business practices, then you will have to provide your name and address to the owners of the site, and be prepared to accept full legal ramifications for your words.

The spirit of debate is fine and good, and can still continue unhindered. Anonymity does not mean you can deny ownership of your words and opinions, mind you, something to remember.

[Psr777]

Just out of casual interest........and no I don't work for European.

European Sky: Are you an IFD with European, a purser or main cabin crew? I only ask because you sound really bitter about the company, to an outsider it appears as though you have an axe to grind!!

If this is not the case then please accept my apologies in advance, however a poor workman always blames his tools..............................

To all the people moaning on this forum about European, get on with it and make the best of a bad job, there are enough cabin crew and flight crew at european who have the experience, the balls and the drive to make any situation work.

Yes the pay isn't great, but you knew that when you applied for the job.

Yes the rosters are poor, what did you really expect, going from a narrow bodied short haul fleet to a wide bodied long haul fleet, in a very short period of time.

Can you get along with everyone you work with? Generally not, you are very fortunate if you can.

Sorry to get on my soap box, but this thread is really beginning to get boring and sounds more and more like certain people are simply spitting dummies out and throwing rattles because they are not in the positions they think they should be !!!!!!

:p :p :p

[EUROPEAN SKY]

Am currently main crew with EAAC. I find it mostly fun and sometimes annoying, thats all. Same as everybody else here.

[hotdowntheback]

Classic Aviator, Big Dick, Mr Wibble, I think European Sky has valid points, I don't think for a minute he has been detramental towards the company or anyone in any particular way, infact I think he/she simply sees things and says things as they are.

European Sky reports things as seen and at least is honest enough to air his/her feelings.

I think if you are honest and I too have flown with you know that all the things Euro Sky has pointed out too be completely true. I respect your loyalty, and just hope that in the future you are just rewarded.

;) ;)

[MR WIBBLE]

Hello Boys and Girls and fellow citizens of Wibble

hotdowntheback

I would like to make it known to you that I have no relation to CLASSIC AVIATOR.

I have come to realise a few things about European and have varied opions about the company. Since they have not annoyed me in anyway then I will not hold a grudge with them and I will continue to enjoy life there.

The are many things that I agree with EUROPEAN SKY about and agree that it makes a change that someone (ie EOROPEAN SKY) is honest enought to report what they have seen and share their thoughts and feeling. I for one respect that.

[Psr777]

In no way was I insinuating that European Sky was anything but honest in his posts, I too respect that. However, going through the last 6 pages of this post suggests that certain individuals are just whingers. Surely this is not what the forum is all about. Provide factual information, realistic scenarios and common sense discussions.

New airlines ALWAYS ALWAYS have problems, and people who come from different airlines ALWAYS ALWAYS have some problems with that. The trick to it, is leaving your excess baggage behind, or pay the price.

I have many friends at European, who, whilst appreciating the difficulties, really enjoy the job and the challenges it represents. What is the point of slagging off individuals just because you are pissed off because you weren't promoted !!!!!! It is not realistic, certainly doesn't help with the team environment you need on board and if you think about it, makes your job harder because you don't want to be there.

The only thing I can think of to say to anyone who is unhappy at European is LEAVE. Get another job with someone who you think will appreciate your talents.

Unfortunately, therein lies the problem. In no other industry would you go from TOP DOG , to DOGSBODY, every time you switched employers - please believe me i am not being derogatory to any member of cabin crew, no matter the rank, I am just using an analogy to represent the basic thinking of airline strategy.

If i was a checkout manger at Tesco, I would not the apply to Sainsburys and accept a job as checkout staff or as a shelf stacker - again no offence intended to anyone who does this (we all rely on you after all), but it would not happen, so why does it happen within the airline industry?

A couple of years ago, in a "previous life", after 4 years of waiting for promotion, my company decided that they would accept direct entry Psrs and IFD's/CSD's/CSC's/IFS's..........whatever!

Woah ....Great.......what a great step forward..until the crew found out , and went absolutely MENTAL. I have no magic answer and indeed know of no-one who does, what we have to remember is that being cabin crew is all part of playing the game.

Those who choose not to play the game, generally end up going from airline to airline to airline and never getting anywhere.

As there are thousands of joe public out there who want our jobs and are willing to go to extreme lengths to get them, we need to look at what we have and decide if it is for us. If it is not, get out of it before you get used to the money, the life style and the days off, otherwise you will find yourself in a job you hate but you can't leave "because what other job gives you the days off etc and on a basic salary each month even if you dont work?"

I actually really enjoy what I do, (10 years) and hope to carry on enjoying it, I hope you guys all find what you are looking for.

:D :D :D

[EUROPEAN SKY]

I am not bitter at the company. I am amused by the way it sometimes works.

[Cheshire cat EGHH]

If i was you i would take a good look at what you lot have written.

When think.. Omeegawd, am i really that sad and bitter that i would spend ages thinking of how i can "input"into this sily thread.

Rule no1. Dont downgrade any company you work for.
2. Dont expect to be promoted unless you work your arse of and show you are worth it.
3. Dont whindge, no one likes it, and it de-moralises.
4 Dont be vain (please look at my other post on this thread for explaination)
5. Be happy, cheerful, do what you do the best you can.

o.. and one last thing..........

GROW UP

[Moneyshot]

EUROPEAN is a very good company to work for. I enjoy the job (flight deck) and I like most of the people I work with. There have been changes for the better at the top and the writing is on the wall for some of the less helpful managers across the company (heard that today from someone in the know). I firmly believe that the company is going places so I urge you all to stick with it. And all of you non-European folk.. If you get the opportunity come and join the party.

[Mirrorkid]

In agreement with 'Moneyshot'! I too firmly believe that European is 'going places', and with this in mind I have brought across several friends & ex-colleagues in recent months.

I think that now is the right time to join the company, as usually proves to be the case with a rapidly expanding venture. There are no guarantees in life - who knows what might happen in the next 12 months - but the vibes and projections seem good to me. Fingers crossed!!

Keep smilin'

;) :) ;)

[mutt]

Well guys and gals, I certainly hope that you are ready for Hadj 2003!!!!!!! You certainly wont need first class service then!



Mutt.

PS, remember to bring your suntan lotion! :)

[126.9]

Wow, unbelievable! I'm sometimes led to believe that the aviation fraternity is populated by the dreggs of humanity!

[laidback]

126.9 You've got to cure yourself of that one mate. Best way to start is not to look in the mirror after a good night.

[xaml]

Just a quick note to everyone slagging the ex aml crew, such as myself... it may appear we all had it cozy but don´t make us out to be spoilt moaners. With bigoted managemant, some of whom are now at EAL and some nightmare woking conditions, it was not always a bundle of fun.
That said, it was a damn sight more organised than this co.
How many airlines do you know who train their crew (I use the word "train" very loosely) without sorting out ID´s, no uniforms, apalling safety issues... I could go on.
And as for the people who say that the money doesn´t matter, I suggest you have a whip round at the local pub and buy yourself a life!
And as for those other few who will no doubt reply with the very tired phrase..."if you don´t like it, leave" don´t worry, I am. As I think are most of the other experienced good crew. For the rest of you, who have clearly been turned down by other airlines, we´ll leave you to it!

[Cheshire cat EGHH]

************************************************************ ************************************************************ ***************

[EUROPEAN SKY]

Thank you those above this post for understanding that my views are "as I see things". I try not to put emotion into my views. Well, at the moment I have lots of time off as I STILL do not have my ID. There again, I am enjoying my time off! Seems the hot temperature has gone from this forum, and it is becoming a little more constructive. I see the post from someone itemising people and attacking each person has been removed.

[Cheshire cat EGHH]

European sky, the "flannel" is no longer in charge of ID passes, you may want to chase up Personelle, as they are now in charge.

[EUROPEAN SKY]

Unfortunately I was informed by personnel that anyone joining prior to July, still have to have the ID done by the person you mention. I have chased it up and it looks like maybe in 2 weeks time I will get my ID-3 months after joining, and 9 months after having sent my CV to the company!:)

[jace]

i couldnt have said it better!

[Flashing Mac]

reading this there really are some strong feelings from people. It is all getting very samey and now it is becoming very boreing as well. Lets leave this topic to rest now eh? Appreciate peoples views, but when just about every view possible has been expressed by almost everyone several times. Points taken.

[COMMODE RQSTD]

CHESHIRE CAT

I AM LED TO BELIEVE THAT YOU WERE ACTUALLY "REMOVED" FROM OPS AND THEY WERE THE ONES THAT SIGHED WITH RELIEF!:D

[Cheshire cat EGHH]

Ahhh... I knew one of my lovely colleges would reply to "that" message.

Not sure where on earth you got the idea i was "removed", as i said before I do get a bit fidgety sitting all day, ops really wasn't my thang.

BTW, it wasn't meant to be an insult to any of you lot up there in euro ops your a great bunch :) including YOU!.

And also.. girl... your handwritting is gorgeous, any tips :D

Beckxy... still wandering around the apron :D

[Sick Squid]

I think this is a fine point to place a padlock on this one... getting a bit too divergent.

Feel free to debate the merits and de-merits of any company you wish, but do remember that there is balance, people are entitled to provide that balance, and by doing so they do not suddenly become a threat to humanity. A bit of respect can go a long way.

Also, as the more mature amongst you know, posting personal attacks is a sure-fire way to lose access to this forum, at the very least. Not big, and not clever...despite some nice fielding by Cheshire Cat there. Don't do it, or else it's curtains for the cute little puppy I have here....

Continue, by all means, but keep it clean.