Full checklist pre-flight check after brief shut down

[piperboy84]

What's the general consensus for doing checks after a relatively short shut down, say for example shutting down to drop a passenger, or taking a pee etc., do most folks taxi to the engine run up area and run all items on the checklist like they do for the first flight of the day, or do most folks use an expedited list like take off config, mags, prop + gauges as they taxi to the hold short line?

[India Four Two]

pb84,

I fly glider tow-planes, which involves lots of short-term shut downs. The normal procedure for most pilots, is a run-up at the beginning of the day, but after that, it is start up and taxi to position and then do a left-to right scan, while waiting for the rope to be hooked up.

When ready, a double-check of the flaps and cowl-flaps and a full-and-free controls check (probably THE most important check in my opinion) before opening the throttle.

[piperboy84]

I42 (off topic) did you see what happened over the LA harbor last week, I flew thru the day before, the same route we took in our 172 trip. That's why I mentioned keep your eyes peeled !!

[Sillert,V.I.]

I generally reserve the full monty for the first flight of the day, but I do like to do a full engine runup if I've taken on fuel, and always do a quick visual tyre check.

[bingofuel]

If you have shut down at least do a magcheck as it is the likeliest time to foul a plug .

[Mach Jump]

If the engine has been shut down, and restarted, do the full run up as for an initial start.

If you have just landed and taxied for another takeoff, without shutting down the engine, I don't think that's necessary.

Always do the full 'Vital Actions' check every time, though. (The one that goes: Trim, Throttle, Prop, Mixture, Mags, Fuel, Flaps, Gauges, Gyros, Hatches, Harnesses, Controls full and free, as appropriate for your aircraft.)


MJ:ok:

[Pace]

MJ

There are items which you need to do on a cold initial start like exercising the prop which you don't need to do after that initial start

It is worth marking or rewriting an abbreviated checklist.

On a single pilot operation its also possible to do the checks from memory and once everything is started and up and running to scan down the checklist and confirm you haven't missed anything.

On a new type or aircraft you don't know back to front blindfolded it is safer to fully run the checklist until you do know it blindfolded

Pace

[Mach Jump]

I would suggest that exercising the prop, (albeit once, rather than three times) is worthwhile after subsequent restarts.

If you do these checks from a list, or from memory is up to you.


MJ:ok:

[BackPacker]

Halfway into my training the instructor instructs me to do a full stop landing well before the lesson block is over. We taxi to the platform, he gives me the usual pre-solo briefing and off I go on my own for the first time. Being nervous, I do go for the full runup even though the aircraft was perfectly fine just minutes before. And I find rough running on the left magneto. Which subsequently turned out to be a broken spark plug.

Since that incident I perform a quick magneto check every time I'm at the hold. Regardless of what happened before that flight.

A quick magneto/prop/carb heat/T&P/idle check, done from memory, takes about 30 seconds if you know what you're doing. And if you are not proficient enough to do it from memory in about 30 seconds, may I suggest you religiously stick to the checklist?

[n5296s]

If I haven't shut down (pattern work etc) then I don't do any checks.

If I've shut down and left the aircraft, say for lunch or to fly something else, then I go through the whole thing except only a single pull on the prop. It only takes a few seconds.

I've never really been sure what the three pulls on the prop are for, though I do it anyway. One of my instructors tells me it's a waste of time, another goes a funny colour if I don't do it. On my own, I do it for the first flight of the day.

[OpenCirrus619]

what the three pulls on the prop are for

This is to make sure you've replaced all the (cold) oil in the CU with (slightly) warmer oil.

If you've got cold (thicker) oil in the CSU then it can prevent it smoothly adjusting the pitch - resulting in hunting.

OC619

[Mach Jump]

I've never really been sure what the three pulls on the prop are for, though I do it anyway. One of my instructors tells me it's a waste of time, another goes a funny colour if I don't do it. On my own, I do it for the first flight of the day.

Here's what an old WW2 fighter pilot once told me, and I still remember today:

'On the first pull, check the RPM drop.

On the second pull check the engine oil pressure for excessive drop during the cycle.

On the last pull check for oil pi**ing out between the spinner and cowling.'

The three cycles also circulate warm engine oil through the CSU and actuator for the purpose stated by OC619 above.


MJ:ok:

[piperboy84]

Not sure if its an old wife's tale, but I was told cycling the prop 3 times was a carryover from the old WW2 Hellcats, Bearcats etc, that had such large quantities of oil needed to move the CS unit it took 3 cycles to ensure a complete transfer of warm oil into a cold unit. Todays spam cans in comparison are small units and only one cycle is needed and the only reason to cycle it 3 times is to allow you time to check the gauges individually for MAP, RPM and oil pressure.

[creweite]

During pre-flight I do four pull throughs of the prop for no other reason other than to check that there is not a questionable valve prior to power up.

[India Four Two]

I would suggest that exercising the prop, (albeit once, rather than three times) is worthwhile after subsequent restarts.

Something that was suggested to me, during a check-out, was to allow the rpm to stabilize during the last pull of the blue knob, to check that the governor is actually governing.

[Pace]

Since that incident I perform a quick magneto check every time I'm at the hold. Regardless of what happened before that flight.


You should do a mag check before lining up regardless of engine stop or not

[mary meagher]

True Virgins Make Dull Company....I can remember the memory aid, but forget what it stood for...

[fujii]

The OP asked about doing the full checklist but the thread has centred around the engine and propellor. There are other things to consider. What if a lot of back trim had been applied on approach? From memory the Bonanza required nose down trim for takeoff. Some nose up forces may be uncontrollable or at the least one hell of a surprise. You also need to consider flap and tank selection. If you are considering a quick turnaround when arriving, you may miss some after landing checks which may set you up for an exciting departure. Checking all items won't kill you.

[India Four Two]

True Virgins Make Dull Company....I can remember the memory aid, but forget what it stood for...

Same with me. I had trouble with the RAF's "My Friend Fred ..." during my Chipmunk days, so I just learnt "Mixture, Fuel, Flaps, Hatches, Harness, Brakes off."

It still stands me in good stead after many years, with just a prefix of "Gear down" or "Undercarriage down", depending where I'm flying! ;)

[9 lives]

I train "Configuration Assurance". This means that every time you change a configuration of flight, or are about to do the next thing in the plane, you mentally remind yourself to assure the configuration is correct for that next thing you're going to do (that the plane may not know about yet!). If that configuration assurance includes your use of a checklist, that's up to you. But don't forget to go through the mental exercise.

What could go wrong during that next phase of flight? Anticipate the things which are going to be safety or flight threatening, and check them.

For RG pilots, the simple application of "Gear Down" as a check may be flawed. I prefer to state out loud for every normal landing either: "The wheels are down for landing on land", or "The wheels are up for landing on water". Now I realize that many pilots fly aircraft which are not designed to land on water twice, but the mental and probably verbal exercise is good because: You want to be thinking about the landing gear position, and why it is there. You might be forced into an abnormal landing, and want the wheels up to belly it in, or because you've had a partial failure. In that case, you do not want your brain reverting to the muscle memory of "wheels down", as you will not get the outcome you desire. If you do that in an amphibian on the water, you're about to destroy a plane, and risk drowning.

Don't let your use of checklists become rote, do the item stated in the checklist because you understand that it needs to be done, and why - configuration assurance. Use the checklist to check that you have already assured configuration, not as a "to do" list of how to fly the plane.

[India Four Two]

pb84,

Do you have a link for the LA incident? I do remember you nagging me about looking out, when all I wanted to do, was look at the Queen Mary!

[Good Business Sense]

Hi Piperboy,

Good question - lots of good sensible answers .... BUT once you decide on what's good **it and what's just **it ....... the big thing is the discipline to action it properly every time.

As you probably know the airlines run standard operating procedures (SOPs) to avoid the screw ups that winging it inevitably brings .... in most airlines if you don't RIGIDLY stick to the SOPs you're in trouble.

It's the deviation from good habits (airmanship) that normally gets you - notwithstanding the need to deviate when you need to deviate.

Best

[Pace]

There is some truth in the theory that you should only use a checklist when you know the checklist.
I stand to be corrected but I believe that was the RAF way

A strange comment maybe but with an element of truth.

The point that you are likely to miss something is usually the very time that you are under a lot of pressure, in bad weather, turbulence or your attention else where. I am talking single pilot.

Its hard to read a checklist single pilot at night in bad turbulence when you are flying a challenging approach and your hands and concentration are full

I have even known of one pilot in such conditions who dropped the checklist which lodged out of sight beneath the seat so learn the checklist and the aircraft till you know it blindfolded. Then the checklist becomes a confirmation not a fly by numbers manual

Multi crew is a different ball game

Pace

[AndoniP]

I usually do the transit checks no matter how short the stop. It just gives me greater peace of mind.

[300hrWannaB]

As a previous poster said, a mag check is valuable in all turnarounds.
I was even shown by some instructors how to do a power check whilst taxying against the brakes. It was a mighty long taxi to the hold.
Back in the real world we must remember that spark plug fouling most often occurs at low revs/full rich, being detectable as a mag drop difference and rough running.
Very occasionally this can be burned off. It's interesting to see what is causing the plug to short when you take one out. The cake across the gap sometimes even has a blob of molten lead sat there.

PPMMTTFFGGHHCCC

Yes, a mag check for L/R/off -on. Check for full power when you fully open the throttle. That's two bases covered. Is your compass reading the same as the runway heading that you want to use?........I really must remember to look more often!

[Fly4Business]

What's the general consensus for doing checks after a relatively short shut down, say for example shutting down to drop a passenger, or taking a pee etc., do most folks taxi to the engine run up area and run all items on the checklist like they do for the first flight of the day, or do most folks use an expedited list like take off config, mags, prop + gauges as they taxi to the hold short line?
For theses examples, full checklist, no matter what.
When I learned, we had this strict telling that most things break on switching on or shutting off.

Regarding pulling the governor when flying SEP, I have to admit I always do it at least three times. I am flying on the belief in the Analog God's "see and feel what goes on", instead of the Digital God's "some higher CPU will take care for it". I am looking at the primaries when pulling. First pull, is the rpm drop right? Second pull, does the MAP do what it is supposed to do. Third pull, oil pressure and temperature moving correctly? Im my opinion this cannot be done in one move. How many countless times did I see colleague pulling the rod without switching on their brain first? I do see a bad tendency, especially with the younger G-something generations, to stare at glascockpit screens without realizing the physics. The, as my Australian Co called, blinky new technology may give better Situational Awareness for some, but also may degrade Aircraft and Engine Awareness.

[Sir Niall Dementia]

It ain't just the obvious that will get you:E

http://www.pprune.org/accidents-close-calls/567110-hurried-walk-rounds.html

SND