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turbopropulsion
15th Feb 2016, 04:20
Forgive me if this has already been brought up, but all search attempts have proven futile.

I'm all too aware of the FAA CFI route but have almost no information for the UK/Europe. I suspect that I could easily anger the members on this forum, so I'll refrain from littering the boards with numerous questions. However, I do have a great deal of things I'd like to figure out so if anyone has any information I'd gladly appreciate it if I could be pointed in the right direction!

Many thanks.

dobbin1
15th Feb 2016, 06:33
This document details the requirements for obtaining an Instructors Certifcate in the UK. CAP 804 is not a very user friendly document, but the instructor certificate requirements are in section 4, part j. Page 307 I think.

http://http://publicapps.caa.co.uk/modalapplication.aspx?appid=11&mode=detail&id=6412 (http://publicapps.caa.co.uk/modalapplication.aspx?appid=11&mode=detail&id=6412)

Whopity
15th Feb 2016, 08:23
As you mentioned Europe you would be best advised to look at the EU Regulation starting with Regulation EU 1178 (https://easa.europa.eu/document-library/regulations/commission-regulation-eu-no-11782011). There are a number of amending regulations, and in addition you should look at the AMC/GM to the Aircrew Regulation (https://easa.europa.eu/document-library/acceptable-means-of-compliance-and-guidance-materials/group/part-fcl---flight-crew-licensing#group-table) where you will find specific details of the required syllabi.

CAP 804 is a solely UK document and more suited to National requirements. You may complete different parts of the requirements in different States, the one issuing your medical certificate will be the one to whom you apply for the licence/certificate. If you mix and match across the States each module must be completed in that State and you will need a certificate of course completion that you can take to another Sate.

turbopropulsion
23rd Feb 2016, 05:48
Thanks for the replies. Unfortunately, I'm having no luck with that document.

In the US, after completing training, becoming a CFI is the necessary step you take to build time. I wonder how this works in Europe? There doesn't seem to be the same hierarchy of CFI to 'actual job'. I hear that freshly qualified graduates can walk straight into the RHS of a jet on a frozen atpl. Does this not, then, eliminate the need for CFIs? I would assume the need for flight instructing (time building) is rendered useless from this very fact?

If this is so, then how comes I see lots of people with 350-700 hours flight time? In other words, how have they amassed the extra hours without working as a CFI?

Thanks

mykul10
23rd Feb 2016, 06:36
When you first qualify as an FI in EASA-land you are an FI(R), ie "Restricted". This means that you have to work under the supervision of an unrestricted FI, you cannot send students on first solo or first solo nav, you cannot teach applied IF or night.

To remove the basic restriction you must achieve 100 hours instruction and authorise 25 student solo flight.

With further training you can teach night and applied IF.

If you are converting an ICAO rating, a reduced course of 30 hours groundschool and 15 hours flying is required, plus the Assessment of Competence. If you meet the requirements (100/25) you will be issued with an unrestricted certificate.

You would have to complete the relevant EASA training for night or applied IF instruction.

If you would like to PM me I can explain further.

Be aware that the term CFI in UK is used to refer to the Chief Flight Instructor in an ATO.

Broadlands
23rd Feb 2016, 18:40
turbopropulsion
Somewhat offended by the assumption that flight instruction is equivalent to time building. Experienced instructors are most definitely not just hour building.

turbopropulsion
24th Feb 2016, 09:36
Broadlands turbopropulsion
Somewhat offended by the assumption that flight instruction is equivalent to time building. Experienced instructors are most definitely not just hour building.

Sorry if I caused any offense, I was just looking at things from 'the big picture'. I completely understand what you mean though and wasn't directing any malicious intent towards flight instructors in general. Although, with that said, I have noticed a great deal of younger CFIs here in the states are nothing but hour builders with no passion to teach.

I will be a bit more careful with my wording in the future though to avoid any ill feelings.

turbopropulsion
24th Feb 2016, 09:43
mykul10 When you first qualify as an FI in EASA-land you are an FI(R), ie "Restricted". This means that you have to work under the supervision of an unrestricted FI, you cannot send students on first solo or first solo nav, you cannot teach applied IF or night.

To remove the basic restriction you must achieve 100 hours instruction and authorise 25 student solo flight.

With further training you can teach night and applied IF.

If you are converting an ICAO rating, a reduced course of 30 hours groundschool and 15 hours flying is required, plus the Assessment of Competence. If you meet the requirements (100/25) you will be issued with an unrestricted certificate.

You would have to complete the relevant EASA training for night or applied IF instruction.

If you would like to PM me I can explain further.

Be aware that the term CFI in UK is used to refer to the Chief Flight Instructor in an ATO.

Thanks for the info, really insightful! Would I be right in assuming there isn't all that much demand for FI's in the UK? I almost never hear of flight instructing back in the UK, I assume this is due to the nature of the fATPL holder being eligible for a position regardless of hours.

mykul10
24th Feb 2016, 16:21
There is a demand for FIs but much of the work would be part time or seasonal. People who can work part-time are really useful to ATOs. I would always choose an FI on their merits, although generally prefer either those with experience or those who have trained here.

zero1
10th Mar 2016, 19:41
In your defence Turbo, there has been and still is a lot of young pilots who use this route for hour building. In the early days you need to gain 700 hrs to use your CPL, but this changed sometime ago with people going direct to the RH seat of 737/320 with less than 300 hrs. In the USA the limit I believe is 1500 hrs, which is now causing a lot of pain for the small airline operators.

Fixed wing flight instructors are in general very poorly paid and as mentioned the role tends to be part time or sessional.

Add the cost of an FI(R), which is in the order of 8000+, completion of the ATPL exams 4000+ and you have the result of putting most pilots off going into professional flight training.

In the UK the term CFI is a nominated post within a flight training organisation, we have FI(R) and FI, which you can add various ratings to for IF, Night and Twin ratings etc.