Low Level Aerobatics

[pulse1]

The other evening I enjoyed watching some low level aerobatics right over my house. I cannot be sure of the height but, with Class D airspace beginning at 2000' I would have guessed he was at between 1000' and 2000'. He did not break the 500' rule.

When I checked on the G INFO website I found that the aircraft was owned by my new neighbour whom I have not yet met. There is a rumour that he intends to operate this aircraft from his new land which is far from flat and would appear to be totally unsuitable but, if he does, this could turn out to be regular entertainment.

My problem is that some of my neighbours assumed that it was me and asked me what are the rules for low level aerobatics. I had to confess that I was not sure although I am pretty sure that it was bad airmanship. The area is not a built up area in the legal sense but there are quite a lot of houses. I do circle my house from time to time below 1500' but well above 500'.

If he does it again( or when I do meet him) I will have a quiet word with him but is there any action which my other neighbours could take against him?

[Ludwig]

I wouldn't say aeros between 1 and 2000 was particularly low but it does rather depend on the pilots skill level. Doing aeros over any type of buildings is most definitely bad form even if it is not strictly illegal, (glide free and all that).

It might be worth, calling on your neighbours during the next aeros demo, so they can see you are on the ground. Sugest to the pilot that doing it over the house is not good form and give him a copy of the CAA Good Sense booklet about Aerobatics.

If the ground he intends to land on is not suitable, it will nly be a shourt time before he breaks the a/c so that will stop him anyway!

[stiknruda]

The only rule that applies in uncontrolled airspace is the 500' rule. To break thi rule, you need a waiver in the form of a DA

Perhaps not bad airmanship as much as bad publicity. Should he put a strip down, any antics that draw attention to him/it/aircraft using it will very quickly cause him problems.

In what way do you determine that the land is unsuitable for putting a strip down?

I don't aerobat at home and get very annoyed at folk who make a grand entrance. I have only one neighbour who is prone to complain and it really upsets me that somebody else could be responsible for winding her up to the point wherer she phones me.

"Mr Stik, I am so worried and so frightened, one of your friends has been looping the loop right above my house, I'm afraid he'll crash into the garden, etc, etc.... I know it wasn't you but it was the same type of aeroplane only yellow."

I don't need the aggro and neither will your new neighbour - so you may feel that a quiet word with him would be best for all concerned.

And if he does lay a strip, you may be invited to use it, too!

Aerobatics are great fun but I have yet to feel the need to do anything lower than 1 000' (intentionally!). I also vary my practice areas each flight to minimise the noise nuisance. It amazes me that I can hear an aeroplane flying S&L a couple of miles away and be able to totally ignmore it - however if it is 3 or 4 miles away and aerobatting, the noise is quite distinctive!


Stik

[poetpilot]

I disagree with assertions that 1000-2000 feet is not low for aerobatics. That is not enough height to recover should he/she make an error of judgement .


As a general rule, you should be above 4000 feet, over unoccupied land.

What your chappie is doing is :

(a) Irresponsible
(b) dangerous to himself and potentially to others
(c) probably beyond his capabilities - his actions would seem to tell me this.
(d) certainly detrimental to the GA cause

In my humble (PPL of 30+ yrs exp) the man is an ar*e .....

[pulse1]

Thanks for the responses.

Stik,

The reason I think that the land is unsuitable is that the gradients are such that you would have to land uphill in about 250 metres with no go around option available, and T/O down hill. There is one strip where that might be possible for something with STOL capability. The land is also quite soft and slightly boggy.

Rest assured, if there was any possibility, I would be keeping all my options open to be able to use it myself. Having my own aeroplane at the bottom of my garden is one of my wildest fantasies. Up to now the fantasy has to include getting a PPL(H).

Poetpilot,

Your view is certainly the one I have been trained to believe (no aeros below 3000') unless you are specially trained e.g display pilot. It is possible of course that this pilot is highly trained but, from your comments I suspect you would think he wasn't.

I have heard that he is some kind of instructor.

[stiknruda]

Poetpilot, I have no desire to become embroiled in an arguement, you are quite entitled to your opinions, however I thought that I ought to point out that the BAeA (British Aerobatic Association) competitions have set minimum heights for different categories.

The hard deck for beginner competitors is 1 500'

The hard deck for Standard is 1 000'

Intermediate I believe is 800 and Advanced 600.


This years std sequence starts with a 45 degree climb and is followed by a one and a half turn spin. The spin exit should be vertical before pulling to level NO LOWER THAN 1 000'.

The gent in question may be an ar** but could equally well be a current display pilot or competitor.

If you do not feel comfortable aerobatting at less than 4 thou, fine, don't BUT imposing that height restriction on others when competitions are flown down to a few hundred feet is rather asinine.

Pulse1 - 250 meteres is very very short. I can consistently get the Pitts down and stopped in 250/300 metres but wouldn't want to put it down if there was ONLY 250. A friend's strip is 400 metres and that is challenging especially in no wind conditions.

The gradient may or not be an issue - most of the private strips that I have been to have not been "flat" but generally the grass is rolled and smoothe!

Soggy fields can be drained - ditches can be piped, hedges and other obstructions can sometimes be moved! Two fields can become one! lots of ways of doing it if the will is there.



Stik

[Ludwig]

Stik Quite so. The top of the box is 3000 feet

[englishal]

The only rule that applies in uncontrolled airspace is the 500' rule

Only if you are not in a built-up area, otherwise its the 1500' rule. And just from reading the post I assume that as you have neighbours then you probably live in a residential area of some sort.


Cheers
EA

[The man formerly known as]

How built up can it be if there is room for an airstrip???

That said it behoves the pilot to vary the locations of the airshow so that everyone gets to enjoy the show.

[Rod1]

Stiknruda is absolutely correct. Even if he was practising for a beginner competition 1500 is ok. The safety record of the aerobatic competitions is first class, so it is hard to criticise a competition aerobatic or display pilot for practicing at this sort of altitude, even down to 600 in the right location.

I agree with Poet that the person is mad if he is planning to aerobat at that height over his house on a regular basis, much better to find an isolated location or keep moving around.

Rod

[pulse1]

Thanks for your interest chaps. The "built up area" is a rural crossroads with houses built on both sides of the roads extending for about half a mile from the junction. The land in question has houses on two adjacent sides. The land slopes unevenly away from the houses, I would guess, at about 1 in 20.

[TheAerosCo]

A clarification to Stiknruda's post.
A DA does not waiver you from the 500' rule. For that you need a Rule 5 exemption from the CAA - and anyone can apply for one. But, if you are in a remote location you may be able to come below 500' (if you really want) without infringing Rule 5, although I guess that this is not so in the case raised here.
The base height for Unlimited competition, incidentally, is 100m.

Nick Wakefield

[formationfoto]

Free speach in a free society is what allows us to express our opinions about others being an a*se without knowing anything about the circumstances. I will fight to death for your ability to prove your stupidity in this.
The character in question may have been a huge a*se or could have been a very skilled aerobatics ace practicing well within his limits.
1,000 ft is a good deck for anyone at basic competition level or with plenty of experience. If this person is an instructor they may well have the required ability.
What is questionable is s*itting in your own back yard - why P*ss off the neighbours if you want to put a strip in?.
I suggest it may be worth finding out more about this person and perhaps dropping local concern into the conversation rather than running round to berate or even stirring up the local hornets nest. This will only get you a bad name.

I know of someone who deliberately aerobats over a strip near me because he was once told to keep clear of the airstrip (which doesn't have an ATZ). He now does this to annoy. We can all be childish at times.
I would take the advice from Stik - sensible guy and despite being onlu a few miles from my house has yet to annoy me with aeros overhead - I can keep wishing though!.

[poetpilot]

Whilst I will not prolong the argument, I maintain my position, irrespective of rules, regs and the like.

Anyone practising GA of any kind in this God-forsaken, NIMBY-ridden country is an a**e if they lack the sensitivity to:

1. Think about the public's perception of what they are doing

2. Minimise their noise & visual intrusion

3. Vary their practice locations

4. fly at a height which will not lead to non-aviation minded individuals (the vast majority) assuming/ reporting the worst.

Such behaviour could endanger local airfields, ruin every local pilot's reputation, put at risk future initiatives for new strips, etc etc. In short it's SELFISH.

I don't agree with the NIMBY view. But I have to accept that it exists, there's more of them than us, that we have to acknowledge that they are there and are always better organised than us in GA.

I dont regard my position as being stupid. I regard it as taking cognisance of the wretched world we live in here in the UK. Unfortunately, I'm stuck in the UK, therefore I want to be able to keep flying. So less selfishness & more long-term-ism on the part of others would assist all of us.

I'm speaking from experience, where a strip has had terrible restrictions placed on it because of whipped up hysteria from NIMBYs over aeros, takeoffs & landings.

Sorry, I dont do aeros competitions, I just enjoy flying but am severely restricted because of NIMBYism.

You might think that I'm stupid (after all as you state, you're entitled to your opinion), but I don't think so. I could be tempted to generalise about aero-practitioners attitudes but that would be grossly unfair to generalise.........

[poetpilot]

PPS .... and if you dont beleive me, now look at the news that's come through this pm re: Sherlowe strip (where I fly from).