About to invest...

[radiodude]

G'day everyone I know these threads pop up from time to time but I'm after some serious consultation from people within the industry. I'm in my mid 30s and already have a private pilot's license and looking to expand that to a CPL and MECIR. Once I finish that I plan to get my instructor rating and that's how I'll earn money to start off in the industry possibly part time. I'm a strong believer of getting an instrument rating early so if I ever do come into any problems I have the training that would help also when I find a charter job it be handy to have a MECIR. I plan on getting a diploma through one of the colleges at Bankstown and vet fee help my fees. The question that really comes back up all the time is how is how the GA Industry is going and how does the overall industry look for somebody who's changing careers in their mid 30s. People with in the industry I really appreciate any feedback and advice.

[PA39]

RUN as far as you can!!

[radiodude]

Care to expand on why I should run away PA39?

[Frank Arouet]

My advice is to join the Clergy and buy an Auster. An altruistic bend would be advisable if you are wealthy and always be mindful of the adage: If you want to make a small fortune out of aviation in Australia, start with a big fortune. Best I can offer mate.

[Jamair]

Where do you want to end up? Professional GA Instructor, GA career, airlines?

GA is doom & gloom, but there are jobs there. As less and less people see it as a viable future, the pool of candidates for any given job shrinks and the conditions improve.

There are top level GA organisations struggling to find suitable pilots to fill Instructor and Charter positions even now and that situation is going to worsen. Those who stay in the industry will be in demand, even as the industry shrinks beneath the ever increasing weight of bureaucracy.

You are probably not a candidate for an airline gig; too many barely-pubescent cadets and university grad applicants for the RH seat jobs that are about.

My opinion only; you need to do your own research and decide if you can make a living in the field, or whether you'd be better off with a more conventional job and a PPL or RPL for the weekends.

[4Greens]

Join the military. The flying is better and they pay you !

[CRCinAU]

Spend the extra cash on some sweet simulator kit for home. You'll get behind that much more than the real thing - and it'll be cheaper too.

I just left back into my previous area of work from before getting my CPL - as I couldn't find squat - and the bills don't stop coming.

If you really want hours, cross hire an aircraft and spend that money more wisely....

[IFEZ]

It's not too late, but make no mistake, it's a long hard expensive road ahead, with no guarantees. And in the early days, the pay is crap. I'm not sure what your personal circumstances are eg married with kids and mortgage or single and financially secure, but if it's the former you need a very understanding family, and a partner who is earning a reasonable income, cos seriously you could earn more stacking shelves at the local supermarket than what you'll earn instructing in the 1st couple of years.

That being said, if you have the passion, the drive, and the persistence to get there, I'd say go for it. You don't want to be looking back in 20yrs regretting not giving it a go.

[pilotchute]

In all seriousness, as someone who has done exactly what you your contemplating don't do it. The rewards aren't there and lots of GA don't want anyone over 25 years old who will complain about being used as dogs body instead of a pilot.

You will be 10 years older than the CP who won't appreciate any advice from you no matter how good or helpful it may be.

[Lapon]

radiodude, check your private messages :ok:

[Ex FSO GRIFFO]

Apply for ATC....its a 'secure' job with 'good pay'.....

Cheers:ok:

[aussie1234]

Rex cadet scheme would be my pick.

[mcgrath50]

You will be 10 years older than the CP who won't appreciate any advice from you no matter how good or helpful it may be.

Having said that use your age and experience to realise that maybe walking into a new company and constantly talking about how things should be done and giving unsolicited advice might come across the wrong way :ok:

[glenb]

But I suggest most Chief Pilots would welcome a fresh perspective, particularly when drawing on previous vocational experience and delivered appropriately.

[glenb]

Something to think about.

Go to your local airport. There will be some instructors that have done what you are contemplating. Schedule a coffee with them and chat about it. Could also be a good networking opportunity. Separate sound advice from marketing hype. Most will empathise and be very frank.

Don't do an Instrument Rating yet. Get the Instructor Rating first. Secure a job, then do the Instrument rating at Staff rates, make it tax deductible and draw on the assistance of your colleagues. You will save thousands. You will be demonstrating to your students safe practices to ensure they never get into a VFR flight needing an Instrument Rating

Don't do it under Fee Help. You are not racing against the clock for the positions you are talking about. Why take on a significant debt, when you get into your late 30s and finally start earning over the threshold, you will be carrying a debt well into your 40s. In an Industry that wont reward for about 7 years return of service.

Sorry about the rather curt email, but I haven't eaten all day, wife is yelling and dinner smells dam good.

By the way, its not all bad but you need to talk face to face though. I don't know your previous background but can I guess IT. That's by far and away the biggest supplier of career change instructors.

Cheers. Glen

[Flying Bear]

What Glen said...

Disregard the likes of pilotchute - they are the ones with an overinflated sense of entitlement who think being older automatically makes them better than their professional peers.

I've experienced him firsthand ;)

Just because you might be older than those who started young, be mindful that, especially in aviation, there is no substitute for experience and good mentoring.

Go for it, but speak to people in the job face to face and research all aspects. Use your previous skills to assist your development in the new profession and be humble.

Glen - what's for dinner?

[pilotchute]

Flying Bear,

My advice to the 23 year old CP I had at the time related to how to put together a tender for a contract, negotiating better insurance premiums etc. None of it was flying related. He didn't have a clue about anything other than flying a plane.

If you have experienced me firsthand then at some point in your life you must have been a 23 yo CP.

[Flying Bear]

Nope, at 23 years old I was getting belted around the ears by my (now respected) mentors!!

CP didn't happen till much later, and several thousands of hours. My comment ties to an earlier one of yours in another thread - so maybe we both are confused (not unheard of in my case!!).

Oh, and don't get me started on tender writing... absolutely NOT something CPs should be doing. Takes time away from the priorities of the job and something they are not equipped for (usually).

Nevertheless, and on topic, bring the skills you have to the team, chase your dream (if that's what flying is to you), but be under no illusion that for a "late starter" it will be hard, somewhat thankless and certainly no way to become financially wealthy.

But it can be a shedload of fun!

[kaz3g]

My advice is to join the Clergy and buy an Auster. An altruistic bend would be advisable if you are wealthy and always be mindful of the adage: If you want to make a small fortune out of aviation in Australia, start with a big fortune. Best I can offer mate.

What have you got against Austers, Frank and why would you put a bend in one, altruistic or not?

Kaz

[Tankengine]

GA has always been difficult but now is no worse than any other time, in fact with Airlines looking at recruiting it may be coming to an up cycle.:ok:
Age wise, I know one guy who went from late 30s newby to jet F/O in less than five years.:)
I was a CP at 23.:p
I cant remember any issues with the older pilots. Tendering for contracts was done by the companies owner with my advice (I had current knowledge of the job). Insurance, mantenance all covered by owner, this is not a CPs job at all, unless they own the joint or dont have a business manager.:hmm:
My GA experience was a long time ago now, when we flew pistons and pretty well only Airlines had jets.:E

[thorn bird]

See a lot of adds for drone flying schools about the place, maybe as the general side of aviation would appear to be in terminal decline it might be more prudent if you have that itch that needs scratching, go do a drone commercial licence.
I guess in time CAsA will come up with drone instructors ratings, drone instrument ratings, drone ATPL's, drone chief pilots, drone safety managers, drone compliance officers, drone maintenance managers, drone maintenance controllers et al. They could add to their logo "DRONE JOBS FOR ALL". That of course will take them, if the airplane side of things is an example, thirty years or so, and a billion dollars give or take.
The drone route is the only aviation growth industry in town.
It may give you at least enough years to make retirement money before CAsA price it out of business.

The other option is go to a country that actually wants a general aviation industry.

[Frank Arouet]

Having previously owned Austers I can say I have a healthy respect for the type which by its very nature makes anyone who can master them a good pilot. Three of my five real forced landings were successfully carried out in Austers. BPA used Austers, Joh Petersen owned an Auster and used it as the government aircraft before the HS. Austers were used in The Antarctic on skis and although floats made for glacial take off speeds they did the job. The military used them and the taylorcraft, (Yank) featured them on most theatres. They were favorites of the bush Clergy and many people made their first quid with one as were many Christians indoctrinated because of the type. They probably represent the most useful and cost effective aircraft you could buy today that will carry a load faster than the camel. They suffered at the hands of lazy engineers when the Major inspection was abolished and replaced with annuals and the wood spar was problematic especially when the laminating glues aged. As for an investment, they don't have a large upfront risk and you would probably recoup the investment whenever your business failed.

[The name is Porter]

radiodude,

I come from a slightly different perspective, did my commercial reasonably young, wasn't any work when I finished so went elsewhere in aviation. Got myself current in my mid thirties and had no problem picking up work (instructing, other stuff) from fellas who'd prefer a more life experienced (not more mature) person.

I didn't give anybody any advice :E as I was a public servant (doesn't give you any life skills) so that may have smoothed my path ;)

15 years after that I've got ****loads more grey hair and often think 'f@rk this' but aviation isn't an easy habit to break, wouldn't have it any other way :ok:

Get into mate, oh, and go to Oshkosh

[Donwoody]

Do it radiodude. I started a flying career in Sept 2009 at 38yo in GA. In April 2014 I got my first jet FO gig. It is hard work but you'll have no regrets.