A321 explosion at Mogadishu

[readywhenreaching]

hole in the side of an Daallo A321 at Mogadishu caused by an explosion ! 2 injured.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CaNJxnhWIAAL6dC.jpg (http://www.jacdec.de/2016/02/02/2016-02-02-daallo-airlines-a321-damaged-by-explosion-at-mogadishu/)

jacdec.de (http://www.jacdec.de/2016/02/02/2016-02-02-daallo-airlines-a321-damaged-by-explosion-at-mogadishu/)

[paulgilbert]

Wawww! How did it happen?

[Anvaldra]

" managed to abandon (or land again)"
Respect, anyway

[hoss183]

Um, there's only one things that does that, and it starts with a 'B'
If it was higher up or near galley, it could have been an O2 cyl, but no.

[DaveReidUK]

Conflicting reports, including one of a badly burned body falling from an unidentified aircraft near Balcad (approx 20nm NNE of HCMM) at around the same time.

[tubby linton]

That is the same airframe which went for an excursion off the runway at Lyon.

[DARK MATTER]

Here's a better picture...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CaNkMo-WkAAM67b.jpg

[cattlerepairman]

Some more info and pics: AirLive.net: BREAKING Explosion on board an A321 few mins after taking off from Mogadishu (http://www.airlive.net/2016/02/breaking-explosion-on-board-a321-few.html)

Notice the outward-bent edges around the hole.

[Hotel Tango]

A good thing that the idiot triggered it too early!

[recceguy]

At least some material for real bomb damage testing ....

The Airbus seems to have pretty nicely accepted the damage, anyway. Good airframe, nice advertisement in fact for the european aircraft !

Just put a big plug, and it will keep flying in Central Africa for a couple of years.

[grizzled]

Decades recceguy, a couple of decades...

[tubby linton]

There are some interesting photographic comparisons on twitter with a device which exploded on TWA 840 in 1986.
https://twitter.com/Lustucrew/status/694511628738547712

[alainthailande]

I've just been sent to this page from a tweet: ASN Aircraft accident 02-FEB-2016 Airbus A321-111 SX-BHS (http://aviation-safety.net/wikibase/wiki.php?id=184136)
An Airbus A321-111 operated by Daallo Airlines as flight D3 159 was involved in an occurrence after takeoff from Mogadishu Airport, Somalia. Two passengers are said to have been injured. Somali media report that locals from Dhiiqaley near Bal'ad town are said to have seen a severely burnt body fallen from a plane.
Photos show the A321 with an apparent hole in the fuselage on the right hand side, just behind the R2 door after it returned to Mogadishu.
This seems like a very weird accident (see pictures! can't recall ever seeing anything like this)

Hoping this hasn't been posted elsewhere in this forum yet. Tried various searches before posting.

[Methersgate]

Good aircraft; good airmanship.

[pattern_is_full]

Echoes of PAL434: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippine_Airlines_Flight_434

...although that device failed to penetrate aircraft skin - was intended to blast downwards into center fuel tank. And was also a low-powered "test" run.

I'm very - careful - about jumping to conclusions - but given the politics of the locale, and the report of a burned body (pure pressure blasts don't burn things, unless steam is involved)....

[PersonFromPorlock]

No obvious blood in the interior shot, some pink discoloration of the outside fuselage from the lower part of the hole. Bomb under the seat, blood and body expelled by depressurization?

[hoss183]

This seems to me to be a test run, done in a low security locale.
From the damage pattern the device was quite close to the skin, but not enough yield to do more damage. Probably it was also triggered too early. If it had been done with a greater cabin pressure difference, it could have possibly caused more damage.
If i were the relevant security services, i would be looking closely at what happened here, and what was used, as the real run may be closer to home.

Pink smear down the outside is clearly trace of an unlucky person (if device planted) or the asshat who was carrying it.

[Tinribs]

I think there was a similar explosion on a fkr 100 somewhere in South America about fifteen years ago. Similar result; big hole, person absent, aircraft landed

[Simplythebeast]

Test run? More likely a very poorly executed attempt to bring that aircraft down.
Hopefully an own goal.

[CONSO]

If it had been done with a greater cabin pressure difference, it could have possibly caused more damage.

Perhaps but - check mythbusters test on old airframe pressurized

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fi1_1l7M8FA

They used a bigger charge than apparently evident here- and more closely focused.

[gcal]

Already on utube:



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-XYxvH6ZThU

[dakota_bandit]

well I can accurately say that it was a bomb on board and hopefully shed some light on afew of the rumor's. SCAMA announced that it was due to fatigue, absolute rubbish, but no shock in a country where corruption rules and control of the airspace is being tightly fought over.


The background to this is rather interesting. This route is normally flown by Turkish airlines. yesterday they didn't come into HCMM, this in itself is a strange occurrence as they are in everyday, it was cited as a technical problem. Today was the same, no Turkish airlines. Daallo was flying this route for Turkish today, pax were briefed that Turkish would meet them in Djibouti. Today on check in the Turkish desk was closed completely and all manifests and tickets were hand written, and as usual it was complete chaos.
Word on the street( from very good sources) is that Turkish knew that there was going to be an attempt to down an aircraft and in particular Turkish airlines, this could be possibly linked to money that is collected by AS, there has been a lot of insurgent activity of late and a no of assassination attempts on airport workers who work for Favori. Turkish airlines and Favori are also in bed with SCAMA, they are exempt nearly all fees and may of received a tip off( so the word goes).




The explosion happened not long after take off, it took off from runway 05 end going out over the city and climbed out over the sea, it remained out over the sea to gain altitude before setting a heading for DJB. The aircraft had reached approx. 14,000 AGL, the seat lights had just been switched off when the explosion happened, oxygen masks deployed, but none of them worked. the pilot took an immediate turn to the left and descended at a steady rate. The pax reported slight heavy breathing and tightness of the chest, possible early signs of hypoxia or due to the explosion, there was a strong burning smell and one pax near the scene reported that the smell was not too dissimilar to a bleach like smell ( quite common with certain explosives )


The report of the pax falling out is yet to be confirmed but it is believed to be true and that it was the guy who triggered the explosion. the other casualty was sat just across and had all his clothes blown off him but is alive.

[HeartyMeatballs]

Passengers commonly claim O2 masks don't work as they don't see the bag inflating and thus think it's not working. The burning smell was likely the oxygen generators which cause a burning smell.

[fox niner]

Wow. What a story. Thanks for telling.

If Turkish knew "something" was going to happen, but they didn't tell the pax / Daallo Airlines, that makes Turkish.....
Ehhh....complicit????

[tubby linton]

I would imagine the Egyptian AAIB will be taking a very close look at the damage to this aircraft to assist their investigation of the A321 loss last autumn.

[TRF4EVR]

Wow, look at all of those seats open at the front! Get out of my way!

[hoss183]

Thankfully a very lightly populated plane. Also impressed by the calm attitude of the pax in the video.

And if you want my way-out conspiracy theory... Who hates Turkey right now and 'owes' them a plane?

and... http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-35474747
Well as the Daily Fail is sensationalist, the BBC is wrong in the other direction.

[captplaystation]

Half the pax must have been drugged, or completely & utterly brainless, someone just blew a hole in the side of your aircraft & you are sitting there like "bitch, I'm gonna be late for my appointment Dude " I found the pax facial expressions on the vid more than a little surreal.



Edited to say, the Beeb are also on Drugs it seems :rolleyes:

[NG1]

It would be interesting to know the reason for the change of schedule of today's TK-servive. Is it confirmed that they cancelled the Mogadishu-flight the second day in a row?

On the other hand: why would somebody who is targeting a Turkish aircraft try to blow up an aircraft of an airline based in Djibuti and operted by a Greek outfit? Whilst the latter is not that easy to guess from outside the matter of fact that what the suspected bomber was boarding was not Turkish Airlines should have been obvious - even to people crazy enough to sacrifice themselves in the name of however.

[dakota_bandit]

Take your point about the oxygen cylinders, but the smell was also mixed with cordite, but the masks only came down on one side of the aircraft, not all of them deployed either and even after pulling the mask, still nothing, possibly the system was damged in the explosion.

I think some serious safety questions need to be answered about airside security. Favori and SCAMA recently issued new flightline badges, they have made inroads and cut badge issues from around 3000 to around 1500, however people do come and go, without being checked, also, people are allowed to walk round the airport willy nilly, favori need to clamp down if running an airport is to be taken seriously.

[HeartyMeatballs]

They are calm, but in the western world people have to think of their 15 seconds of social media fame and the obligatory compo claim and thus have to dramatise things.

I find African people to be very pragmatic and no nonsense people. If this had been in Europe or the states then the state in the cabin would have been somewhat different, I can promise you that.

The masks will automatically deploy at 14,000 cabin altitude. The pilots can manually over ride and deploy them all or the cabin crew can use manual release tools in order to release them should the need arise. This could explain the sporadic deployment of them.

If TK did know, and cancelled their flight, and then subbed it to someone else, then that is pretty sickening stuff. Certainly another reason to avoid them.

[crazy council]

forbes has a quote from the ceo

Forbes Welcome (http://www.forbes.com/sites/martinrivers/2016/02/02/cause-of-daallo-airlines-a321-explosion-unclear-ceo/#6534137a63e1)

“Fifteen minutes the aircraft was in the air. There was a bang, a sort of an explosion, and then it returned safely,” he told me in a telephone interview Tuesday afternoon. “There are two minor injuries. We don’t know what caused it … Anything is possible. By tomorrow the picture will be clearer.”

then

The type of damage immediately fueled speculation that a bomb may have been detonated on-board, but Yassin said it is too early to reach any conclusions. “That is what they are saying, but the Civil Aviation [Authority] thinks differently,” he cautioned. “Nothing is certain.”

[dakota_bandit]

NG1, 100% confirmed that TK cancelled flights in hcmm today, second day running.
There was a delay in the flight leaving today, so it is suspected that the device was on a timer and detonated slightly earlier than planned. Planned detonation would of put it in ethiopian airspace at a higher altitude.

Im not 100% saying that TK knew this was going to happen, even the turks arent that bad, but there was a direct threat against turkish airlines by Al Shabab, and there is always a threat to aircraft coming into hcmm. It could also be linked to a government worker who was on board at the time. However, it is known that turkish is the safer carrier operating here and carries the majority of white faces. It was also mentioned yesterday that TK has suspended flights here indefinetly. Obviously its still too early to find out but chatter from sources and certain intel is pointing that way.

[Simplythebeast]

Cordite? A rather unlikely material for bomb making as it is a slow burning 'low order explosive' used primarily in ammunition. You would have needed a substantial amount to cause that damage.

[dakota_bandit]

The witneses from onboard that i spoke to today said that it smelt of burning, of an explosion, like a cordite smell, but the one im more interested in was the individual who said it smelt closer to a bleach type smell plus burning.

Alot of the pax were moved away from the scene by the stewardesses and distributed according to weight and balance.

The masks definetly didnt work, as one of the pax said that he had to punch the panel to release his mask and despite pulling on it, it still didn't activate, he is in the aviation business and knows what he is talking about.

[onetrack]

captplaystation, I think you'll find that the people from this region are pretty ho-hum about bombing and terrorism and indiscriminate murder - it's a daily fact of life.

Besides, what else can one do as a pax after the event, anyway? Jump up and down? - rant and rave? - call for the police? - call for emergency services? Take a selfie with a gaping cabin hole right behind you? :rolleyes:

The best thing the pax can do under the circumstances is remain calm and remain seated and trust the PIC and FO have things under control - and hope and pray that all the flight controls are still working.

I also think it's pretty disgraceful if Turkish just organised a stand-in flight, when they apparently had been forewarned of an explosive attack on one of their flights.

I wouldn't be so sure it was the bomber who left the pink smear. Could just as likely have been an unlucky pax who was given the unlucky seat.

[llondel]

I would guess that the differential pressure wasn't high enough for explosive decompression (the Mythbusters tests have already been mentioned). As for the passengers, they might be in shock. There's an explosion, you're still alive and the aircraft is still mostly together and apparently flying under control of those at the pointy end, active panic is not needed even if there's an awareness of the need for clean underwear.

[CONSO]

I would guess that the differential pressure wasn't high enough for explosive decompressionJust what is it re explosive Decompression that most seem to confused about ?

Absent a massive bomb type explosion which severs large areas or fuel tanks, explosive decompression is partly a misnomer- but it seems that everyone expects total disintegration simply due to overpressure ?

Ever since the ill fated Comet series early on, virtually every commercial passenger airplane has been designed with multiple crack stoppers, redundant load paths, etc. IOW the plane does NOT disintegrate like a punctured balloon simply due to overpressure OR a blown out panel/window, etc. And no - gert frobe type in a bond movie will not be squeezed thru a window.

From wiki ..

Aloha Airlines Flight 243 (AQ 243, AAH 243) was a scheduled Aloha Airlines (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloha_Airlines) flight between Hilo (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hilo) and Honolulu (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honolulu) in Hawaii. On April 28, 1988, a Boeing 737-297 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_737#737-200) serving the flight suffered extensive damage after an explosive decompression (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uncontrolled_decompression#Explosive_decompression) in flight, but was able to land safely at Kahului Airport (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kahului_Airport) on Maui (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maui). There was one fatality, flight attendant Clarabelle "C.B." Lansing, who was ejected from the airplane. Another 65 passengers and crew were injured.
The safe landing of the aircraft despite the substantial damage inflicted by the decompression established Aloha Airlines Flight 243 as a significant event in the history of aviation, with far-reaching effects on aviation safety (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aviation_safety) policies and procedures.
That was due to a major fatigue-corrosion issue,- and poor maintenace - but note the structure remained mostly intact even with major skin panels missing

The airframe, the 152nd Boeing 737 built, named Queen Liliuokalani after Lili'uokalani (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liliuokalani), with registration (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_registration) N73711,[1] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloha_Airlines_Flight_243#cite_note-1) was built in 1969 and delivered to Aloha Airlines as a brand-new aircraft. While the airframe had only accumulated 35,496 flight hours prior to the accident, those hours were over 89,680 flight cycles (a flight cycle is defined as a takeoff and a landing), owing to its use on short flights.[2] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloha_Airlines_Flight_243#cite_note-ASN-2)The video earlier plus reports the plane was at 14K feet approx should be sufficient proof of the redundant structure and multiple ' crack' stoppers built in as standard features.:ugh:

[Ian W]

NG1, 100% confirmed that TK cancelled flights in hcmm today, second day running.
There was a delay in the flight leaving today, so it is suspected that the device was on a timer and detonated slightly earlier than planned. Planned detonation would of put it in ethiopian airspace at a higher altitude.

Im not 100% saying that TK knew this was going to happen, even the turks arent that bad, but there was a direct threat against turkish airlines by Al Shabab, and there is always a threat to aircraft coming into hcmm. It could also be linked to a government worker who was on board at the time. However, it is known that turkish is the safer carrier operating here and carries the majority of white faces. It was also mentioned yesterday that TK has suspended flights here indefinetly. Obviously its still too early to find out but chatter from sources and certain intel is pointing that way.

What was Turkish meant to do?
It has a threat against its airline so it indefinitely cancels its flights.
A local carrier then takes over that, as someone has said previously, is pretty obviously not Turkish. Well what we would think is obvious may not be obvious to the AS individuals in whatever mental state they are. It was an aircraft and it was flying the flight timetabled as Turkish.

[Scuffers]

Still look at pics of this and marvel at the ability of the crew to get this back down in one piece..

http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/2001/Jan/18/image2/localnews1_b.jpg

[PaleBlueDot]

Pilot was Vladimir Vodopivec (64) from Belgrade, Serbia.

Edited Google translation from very early Serbian media news, here:

EKSKLUZIVNO Srpski pilot spasao putnike posle eksplozije u avionu (http://www.blic.rs/vesti/svet/ekskluzivno-srpski-pilot-spasao-putnike-posle-eksplozije-u-avionu/4pz57vk)

EXCLUSIVE Serbian pilot rescued passengers on the plane after the explosion.

Pilot Vladimir Vodopivec (64) from Belgrade has managed this morning to safely lanad the plane with 74 passengers and crew at the airport in Mogadishu in Somalia after an explosion blew off part of the fuselage near the right wing of the aircraft, 'Blic' learns. International media assess that the pilot "did impossible work", because the incident passed without casualties.

- Half an hour after we took off from the airport in Somalia, at 3,300 meters high there was a terrible explosion. Passengers began to cry, and I immediately went back to the airport. Fortunately, no one was seriously injured - says Vladimir Vodopivec.

...

Experienced pilot had similar thoughts.

- I think it was a bomb, but fortunately it did not damage the control system, so I was able to come back and I land at the airport. This had never happened to me. We lost cabin pressure. Thank God everything ended well - said Vodopivec immediately after the incident to his friend.

Vodopivec, born in Belgrade, is an experienced pilot who worked in Yugoslavian and than Serbian JAT, then in "Montenegro Airlines", and in recent years in Africa, as employed in the "Dalo Airlines". Soon, says his friend, he would retire.

http://ocdn.eu/images/pulscms/ZTc7MDMsMzE0LDAsMCwxOzAzLDFkNiwwLDAsMTswYywxZDc0Y2I0MTcwNTk1 MDQzNjYyOWNhYmQ2MDZmNTBmNiwxLDAsNiww/b52ad9cf1d7eacfc9175bdc7b6a511cd.jpg

[AreOut]

the pilot is an experienced 64yo Captain Vlatko Vodopivec that worked for JAT and Montenegro Airlnes, flown with him couple of times, his voice is convincing :)

[Carbon Bootprint]

Ever since the ill fated Comet series early on, virtually every commercial passenger airplane has been designed with multiple crack stoppers, redundant load paths, etc. IOW the plane does NOT disintegrate like a punctured balloon simply due to overpressure OR a blown out panel/window, etc. And no - gert frobe type in a bond movie will not be squeezed thru a window.While I agree with everything here regarding the ability to maintain airworthiness, the statement about pax vulnerability seems open to question.


November 3, 1973 - National Airlines Flight 27, a DC-10-10 cruising at 39,000 feet, experienced an uncontained failure of the right (#3) engine. One cabin window separated from the fuselage after it was struck by debris flung from the exploding engine. The passenger sitting next to that window was forced through the opening and ejected from the aircraft. The crew initiated an emergency descent, and landed the aircraft safely.

For more details. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Airlines_Flight_27)

[PaleBlueDot]

http://www.aljazeera.com/mritems/imagecache/mbdxxlarge/mritems/Images/2016/2/3/2951144797324f4eaf126c032d3fc220_18.jpg

"Somalia's ambassador to the United Nations, Awale Kullane, was on board the plane, Reuters news agency reported. He posted video of the incident on Facebook."

https://youtu.be/jMHWd5Mhh1g

Somalia investigates possible bomb blast on airliner - Al Jazeera English (http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/02/somalia-investigates-bomb-blast-airliner-160203093935850.html)

[de facto]

Somalia investigates possible bomb blast on airliner - Al Jazeera English (http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/02/somalia-investigates-bomb-blast-airliner-160203093935850.html)

It obviously wasnt caused by a bad food fart.
Now,having never flown in and out of there,I guess airlines would stop serving that city/country until proper screening is done?

[dakota_bandit]

well knowing the Somali aviation authorities, the investigation will take the shape of " nothing happened, move along nothing here to see "


You are spot on about Turkish as I stated earlier. There is a lot more to this that I cant go into.


I do think the international community need to take the lead with this and take a good hard look at procedures in place, security wise and the real reasons behind this.

[PaleBlueDot]

Plane departure was delayed for one hour. Assuming timed device, if it was on schedule, explosion would have happened at cruise altitude, not at 3300 meters.

[Volume]

Ever since the ill fated Comet series early on, virtually every commercial passenger airplane has been designed with multiple crack stoppers, redundant load paths, etc. IOW the plane does NOT disintegrate like a punctured balloon simply due to overpressure Looking at the crack protuding more than one frame forward, this might have already been far beyond the required damage tolerance capability and that crack my have grown up to the door if the fuselage would have been fully pressurized...
Crack stoppers are required to stop a two bay crack (one frame/one stringer lost, two skin panels cracked). Initial damage beyond this might indeed cause full desintegration.

[jolihokistix]

Many major news sites are beginning to accept that beside the two injured passengers, one male passenger in his 50s was lost through the gap, and his body is being brought to Mogadishu.

[Wageslave]

From the position of the damage it doesn't appear that the device was either at floor level or in an overhead locker, rather at torso level of a seated passenger. This could imply various things, from an deliberately fired explosive hidden on the person of a pax to a grenade accidentally detonated in someone's pocket - and Mog is a place where grenades are routinely carried. None of these obviously lend themselves to being a timed device. The choice of position, right over the wing, the strongest point of any aircraft, also does not indicate a bomber with much clue of optimising his efforts. If you had the gumption to make an explosive belt wouldn't you also know enough to set it off somewhere more vulnerable, or instruct your drone to do so?

[Dusty Passenger]

How about, as was suggested for the crash in Egypt, something stuffed in a life jacket pouch under a seat? That's below window level, pretty much at the level of the centre of the hole.

[cooperplace]

I think that until there is some evidence, it's unfair to conclude that the deceased passenger was the bomber.

[Hotel Tango]

How about, as was suggested for the crash in Egypt, something stuffed in a life jacket pouch under a seat?

I was thinking the same. How often are these areas thoroughly checked (in terms of the life jacket being there I mean)? And when they are checked, I would doubt that it would be more than just a perfunctory check (quick "feel" check).

I'm also curious as to how long the aircraft was on the ground prior to departure? Had it night stopped?

[anjowa]

You might notice most of the stains on the outside of the airplane seem to originate from the bottom of the hole then sweep upward along the path of the airflow over the wing. That would suggest to this untrained observer the initial punch through was there, and the balance of the hole might have been simple propagation of the failure. If that's true we can be glad the airplane was still climbing at a relatively low speed -- 350 knot winds could have done some serious peel back of the skin. .

[CONSO]

See photo at # 40 for a bit more damage - and many improvements have been made since then in structural analysis. :D

Looking at the crack protuding more than one frame forward, this might have already been far beyond the required damage tolerance capability and that crack my have grown up to the door if the fuselage would have been fully pressurized...
Crack stoppers are required to stop a two bay crack (one frame/one stringer lost, two skin panels cracked). Initial damage beyond this might indeed cause full desintegration.

[CONSO]

Interesting article in Seattle Times today

Timeline: 8 emergency landings after explosions, structural damage | The Seattle Times (http://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/emergency-landings-after-explosions-structural-damage/)

Originally published February 3, 2016 at 2:22 pmUpdated February 4, 2016 at 6:23 am

A pilot who made an emergency landing in Somalia’s capital after an explosion blew a hole through a jetliner says things would have been much worse had the blast occurred at a higher altitude. That’s because it could have led to explosive decompression on the Daallo Airlines-operated plane, which might have caused more severe structural damage and would have forced a faster descent because of limited supplies of oxygen to the passengers. The pilot said the explosion Tuesday was believed to have been caused by a bomb, but investigators have reached no conclusions. One man was missing but the other 73 passengers got off safely after the Airbus 321 landed.
Goes on listing other similar incidents

Includes pics of the Hawaii convertible 737

[lomapaseo]

I agree that the news is touting the pilots words about the luck of the explosion at lower altitude. However I fail to see a structural tie-in with this fact. Simply citing past incidents with different outcomes does not justify a conclusion.

Pressure differentials and blow-down rates need be considered vs structural concerns and routings of critical control cables etc.

I hope that we don't get too deep into this as it only helps the bad guys

[grizzled]

I hope that we don't get too deep into this as it only helps the bad guys

I agree with lomapaseo here. One of the most significant hazards to aviation safety and security today (to safety and security generally) arises directly from the vast amount of information available via the internet. We can't prevent much of it but we certainly shouldn't be contributing to it.

[Heathrow Harry]

I think the pilot & crew deserve congrats - it sounds like a text book handling of a very non-standard occurrence

kept calm, got people away from the damage and landed in one piece

just goes to show good people aren't just with the big airlines......

[PaleBlueDot]

Yes, they did a great job. And just look at composition of that group: The flight crew included Serbian pilot, Italian co-pilot, two flight attendants from Greece, two from Kenya and one from Bosnia.

"When we heard a loud bang, the co-pilot went back to the cabin to inspect the damage, and I took over the commands as the procedure demands," the Serbian pilot told AP, adding that the engines and hydraulics functioned normally so he had no problem flying the aircraft back to Mogadishu.

"Smoke came into the cockpit, but it was mostly concentrated in the back of the aircraft," he said by phone. "The stewardesses did a great job calming down the passengers and following the emergency procedure."

Kullane, Somalia's deputy ambassador to the United Nations, said in a social media post that he "heard a loud noise and couldn't see anything but smoke for a few seconds." When visibility returned, he realized "a chunk" of the plane was missing.

"I think for the first few seconds and minutes ... I was terrified and most people were terrified," he said. "Of course, we give credit to the pilot who landed that plane."

[Wageslave]

I think the pilot & crew deserve congrats - it sounds like a text book handling of a very non-standard occurrence

kept calm, got people away from the damage and landed in one piece

just goes to show good people aren't just with the big airlines......

Harry, I don't mean to disagree with what you wrote but one or two things occur to me over the reporting and appearance of this matter.

Firstly this kind of event is very much at the forefront of many air travellers minds and is thus exceptionally news-worthy. So it attracts vastly more publicity and emotion than would an event with almost identical characteristics, a simple pax window failure, a matter just as "non standard" but of far greater concern to the industry as a whole than mere poor security at Mog (well, what else would you expect?).

A minor (as it is at FL140) and unfixable decompression be it a popped out window or one blasted out) is hardly an event to tax a below average crew as there is virtually nothing anyone can do to affect matters; true, in the latter case everyone is more shocked by a bigger bang but after that, as long as the airframe is controllable, it's just an adrenaline fuelled unpressurised diversion with nothing particularly special to do. (no doubt someone will chirp up about smooth handling - that isn't special)
I doubt anything said or done by the cc would prevent or assist pax from getting themselves out of harm's way after a few seconds of Oh Christ! Oh sh!t! Oh dear!

The drama (very much media induced simply through our habitual exposure to it) of a situation can easily be misconstrued as related to the hazard and thus by implication (esp by the media) to the complexity/skill required in dealing with it. That isn't necessarily the case, and I submit certainly isn't here.

Daallo may well be a place to go looking for good people but experience also tells us that they don't exactly fit the profile you'd normally use if going to find them. They are, after all, firmly on the EU banned list and what can be read about them or their history on the internet doesn't inspire confidence.

However the pilots evidently did OK - just as they are expected to do - (cabin crew are an unknown at present I believe) and pats on the back are certainly appropriate but I don't think anything particularly deserving great accolades occurred, just an uneventful diversion after a pressurisation fault with an unusually dramatic cause. And some particularly bad security.

[short bus]

The Wall Street Journal is reporting that the bomber is the person that was ejected. They also noted that the bomber was able to bypass a number the security measures as he arrived in a wheelchair.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/somali-jet-blast-may-have-been-caused-by-suicide-bomber-1454603775

[tdracer]

I've seen a couple reports (https://www.yahoo.com/travel/passenger-caught-fire-and-sucked-from-plane-at-172542766.html) that the passenger "caught fire" before being sucked out of the airplane.

Since there was undoubtedly an explosion (and assuming the report that the passenger caught fire is accurate), it seems very odd that any sort of bomb would cause someone to catch fire - most explosives won't result in combustion of something that wasn't highly flammable.

[PAX_Britannica]

However the pilots evidently did OK - just as they are expected to do - (cabin crew are an unknown at present I believe) and pats on the back are certainly appropriate but I don't think anything particularly deserving great accolades occurred, just an uneventful diversion after a pressurisation fault with an unusually dramatic cause. And some particularly bad security.
Right.

While evidence is incomplete it may be best to be somewhat open minded.

Will the BEA be on the case ?

[pattern_is_full]

@ tdracer - Well, remember that the "shoe bomber" was caught and stopped because people noticed him trying to set fire to his shoe.

With IEDs, the methodology can be very - weird.

Additionally - obviously the explosion (and they can be very "firey" - see http://www.drum.army.mil/mountaineer/Lists/Articles/Attachments/1152/explosion.jpg

....had to come before the aircraft was breached, and thus before anyone could be sucked out.

Combine those with the fact that shocking events can lead to "stop-action" memory - and witness accounts are memories of the event - and I just don't see a mystery.

Bang - flame - hole - suck - in short order.

[saffi]

"However the pilots evidently did OK - just as they are expected to do - (cabin crew are an unknown at present I believe) and pats on the back are certainly appropriate but I don't think anything particularly deserving great accolades occurred, just an uneventful diversion after a pressurisation fault with an unusually dramatic cause. And some particularly bad security."

Surely you don't mean that.... Since they're on a EU (or worldwide) ban list a bomb exploding on a passenger airline becomes "just an uneventful diversion"? Not in my book... (and merely a SLF)...

[galaxy flyer]

A terror attack with a happy ending. :}

GF

[phylosocopter]

Saffi
It was reported that the CC managed the movement of SLF to the rear with consideration of the weight of each SLF so as to keep the C of G in range so I would say their cool heads and people skills were a very important part of the positive outcome.

[_Phoenix]

The Wall Street Journal is reporting that the bomber is the person that was ejected.

A suicide bomber would detonate it at cruise altitude. I read in a link above that the ejected person was a man about 60 years old, maybe someone else "helped" him with carry on.

[CONSO]

phoenix said A suicide bomber would detonate it at cruise altitude.

groooan - and what difference would it have made except for some very uncomfortable passengers and possibly an injury nor two ? Why do you think a higher altitude with a higher delta p ( inside to outside ) would have done more structural damage ?

[LlamaFarmer]

phoenix said

groooan - and what difference would it have made except for some very uncomfortable passengers and possibly an injury nor two ? Why do you think a higher altitude with a higher delta p ( inside to outside ) would have done more structural damage ?



Higher airspeed in the cruise vs quite early in the climb, plus lower ambient pressure could have contributed to a lot more damage, especially as it would likely result in explosive decompression with a massive differential rather than rapid decompression with a moderate delta.

[CONSO]

" would likely result in explosive decompression with a massive differential"

Please explain what you mean by explosive ( not counting the bomb ).


IMO - A higher delta p would/may open a slightly larger hole to the nearest circumferential/stringer in the skin.

And you believe ??:confused:

[lomapaseo]

especially as it would likely result in explosive decompression with a massive differential rather than rapid decompression with a moderate delta.

Define "massive differential" in physics terms, not structural words

[andrasz]

At higher altitudes due to the greater pressure differential the airflow would be much higher through the same sized initial breach made by the bomb (reaching 'explosive' pressure expansion rates), possibly causing more secondary damage that could then be further propagated by the greater slipstream loads on exposed surfaces.


However I'm no expert, it could well be that the additional secondary loads would make little difference and we would see no more than current damage, most of which I'm sure was caused by the initial blast. There was the United 747 which had a cargo door failure that ripped a good part of the cabin wall open at cruise altitude, there was no visible further damage caused by secondary aerodynamic forces, and the aircraft landed fine just like this one.

[ExSp33db1rd]

..............And some particularly bad security."

bet he had to remove his belt and his shoes before boarding nevertheless.

Effective, 'ain't it ?

[flapassym]

Higher airspeed in the cruise vs quite early in the climb, plus lower ambient pressure could have contributed to a lot more damage, especially as it would likely result in explosive decompression with a massive differential rather than rapid decompression with a moderate delta.

Higher TRUE airspeed yes, indicated, no! For a Tas of around 450 kts we normally have an IAS of around 220 at fl 400.

[grizzled]

Re comments about "a happy ending" or other references to the bomber being the victim (one of two victims actually, as another person, seated close to the explosion, is in hospital with serious burns):

There is a reasonable case to be made that the person nearest the bomb (the person ejected) did not know of the bomb. Enough said.

[Mark in CA]

No determination yet on whether this is related, but interesting coincidence.

Three killed in Somalia car bomb targeting airport official: police (http://news.yahoo.com/three-killed-somalia-car-bomb-targeting-airport-official-094405881.html)

[saffi]

"Saffi
It was reported that the CC managed the movement of SLF to the rear with consideration of the weight of each SLF so as to keep the C of G in range so I would say their cool heads and people skills were a very important part of the positive outcome."

I was referring to the "uneventful diversion" part ;) Crew did a great job, best possible outcome it seems.

[Wageslave]

It seems that there are people here who appear not to know or understand what "explosive decompression" is. There bizarrely seems to be a view that it somehow is or results in an explosion or forced dynamic disintegration of the airframe. Quite how this sort of misunderstanding comes about is a bit of a puzzle.

Explosive decompression merely refers to the speed of a decompression. A small-ish hole like this one would not result in explosive decompression, the air would exit over a period of a second or few with a woosh. If a door blew out it might be all but instantaneous and thus deemed "explosive". This has no effect in itself on the airframe - the damage that caused it is the dangerous event.

Of course it is arguable that delta 8psi in the cruise might momentarily exacerbate the bomb damage while it exhausts but it would be tiny compared to the effects of slipstream.

Explosive decompression that results in differential pressure in places not designed to take it (one or two events have distorted the cabin floor resulting in jammed controls, for instance) can cause horrendous problems, but is still nothing to do with an explosion!

I'm chuckling at a mental picture of cabin crew coolly assessing the weight of each pax and directing them to particular zones while feeding the figures back to someone in the galley who is carefully preparing a dropline load-sheet and correcting errant pax positions. Still, it could have happened, I suppose. Probably weren't enough pax on board to have had much effect this time but it's a consideration for the future if everyone flees an event to one end of the aircraft.
I daresay it was more a case of "those at the front cried forward, and those at the rear cried back!"
(with apologies to McCaulay.)

btw, I'm not saying the cc didn't do a good job of keeping cool, I'm not sure we know or whether it affected the outcome.

[Heathrow Harry]

Wageslave - we've seen so many accidents recently when trained crews haven't been able to handle ANY problems and a lot of people have been killed

Whilst the crew here played it by the book -as they should have done - I still think how easy it would have been to panic and add another set of deaths to the stats

Capt Sullenberger and his crew only did what they should of done when they ditched and were (rightly) lauded - should be similar here

[captplaystation]

There is procedure in the QRH for loss of pressurisation , & a note to take into account structural damage. There is also a procedure for double engine flameout, and indeed for ditching.

Nonetheless, it is stretching a point to compare the Capt here (who appears to have done a professional job ) with what Sully achieved, wouldn't you agree ?

[Aluminium shuffler]

It seems that there are people here who appear not to know or understand what "explosive decompression" is. There bizarrely seems to be a view that it somehow is or results in an explosion or forced dynamic disintegration of the airframe. Quite how this sort of misunderstanding comes about is a bit of a puzzle.

Explosive decompression merely refers to the speed of a decompression. A small-ish hole like this one would not result in explosive decompression, the air would exit over a period of a second or few with a woosh. If a door blew out it might be all but instantaneous and thus deemed "explosive". This has no effect in itself on the airframe - the damage that caused it is the dangerous event.

Of course it is arguable that delta 8psi in the cruise might momentarily exacerbate the bomb damage while it exhausts but it would be tiny compared to the effects of slipstream.

Explosive decompression that results in differential pressure in places not designed to take it (one or two events have distorted the cabin floor resulting in jammed controls, for instance) can cause horrendous problems, but is still nothing to do with an explosion!

I'm chuckling at a mental picture of cabin crew coolly assessing the weight of each pax and directing them to particular zones while feeding the figures back to someone in the galley who is carefully preparing a dropline load-sheet and correcting errant pax positions. Still, it could have happened, I suppose. Probably weren't enough pax on board to have had much effect this time but it's a consideration for the future if everyone flees an event to one end of the aircraft.
I daresay it was more a case of "those at the front cried forward, and those at the rear cried back!"
(with apologies to McCaulay.)

btw, I'm not saying the cc didn't do a good job of keeping cool, I'm not sure we know or whether it affected the outcome.

I disagree with you here. Firstly, the size of the hole and its instantaneous creation would have lead to an explosive decompression by any measure. Second, the reports of "smoke" throughout the cabin and flight deck indicate fogging from the pressure drop; yes,smoke from the explosive is also likely in part of the cabin, but not in the flight deck. A depressurisation fast enough to cause fogging is certainly enough to qualify as explosive. Explosive decompression does not mean that the whole airframe explodes.

[MrMachfivepointfive]

Capt Sullenberger and his crew only did what they should of done when they ditched and were (rightly) lauded - should be similar here

Totally agree. Also, don't forget the cabin crew who kept their acts together in view of too much direct sunlight inside the cabin.

[lomapaseo]

I have no problem with describing such an event based on rate of change as perceived by a person (boom, fogging, burst ear drums etc.)

At the aircraft structural level it needs differentials in pressure acting over an area per unit of time (blow down rate).

Some notable events have happened in the past with pressure differential across cabin floors occurring fast enough that pressure relief design features couldn't keep up, thus a cascading of effects.

[Wageslave]

A depressurisation fast enough to cause fogging is certainly enough to qualify as explosive.

Not so. You get fog in a decompression chamber with very gentle decompression.

I'd have thought that to be "explosive" a decompression must be all but instantaneous which I doubt this one was, even though it would have been pretty quick.

[phiggsbroadband]

I suppose someone has investigated the trace elements of this explosion, to rule out other possible causes. Such as iPad battery failure, or atomic powered Heart Pace-Maker failure.


Has there been any official report yet of the nature of the device?

[vilas]

May be it was normal landing afterwards but it is possible to screw up even normal things after a traumatic event. That they didn't, deserves a pat. Even Sullenberger dropped his speed well below VLS leading to high impact touch down with lot of damage to the aircraft but he saved the lives in an extraordinary situation by a correct decision so deserved all the kudos.

[CONSO]

would have lead to an explosive decompression by any measure.Puuuhllleeese !- It is a shame that the vast media types have picked up the term explosive decompression for years - **probably** based on the Comet disasters.

If one simply checks with wiki or a few other sites and definitions, it comes down to :

A) Explosive decompression is when the pressure drops so fast that the lungs cannot exhale fast enough to equalize the pressure, causing severe damage to organs, etc- and often death ( the time involved is much less than 1 second depending on total pressure differential )

B) Other forms/definitions for rapid decompression ( talking airplanes here - not diving ) usually involve times more than a second or two. Not comfortable, but not deadly in themselves.

IMO for this case and most cases involving puncture or loss of a skin panel or two the term RAPID really applies ( again ignoring the explosive cause )

Of course the press prefers the term explosive for even a window failure or even a airconditioning duct failure allowing a SLOW or RAPID loss of pressure
And the public has visions of a balloon bursting with thousands of pieces like confetti . . :ugh:

[archae86]

Has there been any official report yet of the nature of the device?

Any official report is likely in the future, but the Wall Street Journal today posted an article asserting that "a Western diplomat, said the investigators had found TNT residue on the remains of the man"

WSJ article (http://www.wsj.com/articles/investigators-conclude-suicide-bomber-caused-somalia-airliner-blast-1454673536)

Allowing for some corruption of detail as this got passed along, I, personally, think it likely that someone really has found residue of some type of expected explosive on the deceased's remains, but somewhat doubt it was exactly TNT, which would be a bit surprising in this application.

WSJ, which actually runs pretty capable news gathering, and is pretty careful about accuracy (whatever you think of the politics of the editorial page and the other practices of the owner) is definitely taking the stance that people close to the investigation think it was a bomb (as in an intentional one--not some sort of laptop battery brewup).

So do I.

[Smott999]

It's interesting to me to contrast this to the Metrojet incident, where the plane was completely destroyed by (per the Russians) a bomb which I thought was placed in a soda can....

I realize placement of the device is critical, but perhaps this shows just how critical?

[TimV]

SLF chipping in here ....

To me it seems remarkably lucky that the individual believed to be responsible for this was allocated the seat they were. Anything further forward and debris from the explosion may have entered no.2 engine and/or impacted the control surfaces of the wing, anywhere towards the rear and again debris may have damaged/taken out the horizontal stabilizer. Certainly could have been a lot worse.

[Gysbreght]

There is also a procedure for double engine flameout, and indeed for ditching.True, there is a procedure for double engine flameout, and there is a procedure for ditching. But there is no procedure that emphasises the particular difficulty of ditching with both engines flamed out, that would have been useful for captain Sullenberger.

[Capot]

particular difficulty of ditching with both engines flamed out, The normal case, I would have guessed; perhaps one flamed out and the other producing insufficient thrust to stay airborne, but otherwise why ditch with only one engine inoperative? That could make all the stuff about ETOPS a bit of a waste of time.

Sorry, just a thought, back to the thread.

[misd-agin]

True, there is a procedure for double engine flameout, and there is a procedure for ditching. But there is no procedure that emphasises the particular difficulty of ditching with both engines flamed out, that would have been useful for captain Sullenberger.






What's the "particular difficulty" of ditching with both engines flamed out that experienced pilots wouldn't be aware of?


And thirty plus years in the business and the manuals have text about consideration of water ditching.

[Gysbreght]

What's the "particular difficulty" of ditching with both engines flamed out that experienced pilots wouldn't be aware of?
The steep approach angle and high rate of descent requires an increased steady approach speed to permit a flare to zero rate of descent, because the speed bleeds off rapidly in the flare. You are not implying that captain Sullenberger was inexperienced, are you?

Vilas got it right.

[captplaystation]

"What's the "particular difficulty" of ditching with both engines flamed out that experienced pilots wouldn't be aware of? "


Oh nothing really. . .you take off from a hard surfaced runway in a commercial twin jet & suddenly find yourself the pilot of a 60tonne plus seaplane over a Metropolitan area . . . piece of cake :ugh:


"professional pilots" rumour network, Yeah right :hmm:

[Sawbones62]

One needs to be careful when consulting with internet references about aeromedical definitions such as explosive decompression. As a flight surgeon I was taught it simply meant decompression of an aircraft which takes less than 0.5 seconds. That is considered by most authorities to be “explosive”.

In a series of 184 explosive decompressions in US Navy aircraft, there was only one case of a pneumothorax (collapsed lung). Airliners have a much larger cabin volume and the risk of a pneumothorax during explosive decompression is even lower. I cannot find a case of a civilian airliner decompression survivor with a pneumothorax in the medical literature since 1972. There is a risk, especially as some people are already prone to pneumothorax at sea level, but it must be a rare event in airliner decompressions.

If you elect to take altitude chamber training, which I highly recommend, you will be exposed to an true explosive decompression without your mask at an altitude of 25,000 feet. You'll see all the stigmata of explosive decompression and your lungs will not explode, money-back guaranteed. They could demonstrate it at higher altitudes, but there's a chance you may not get your mask back on fast enough.

Avoid the burrito especialle and beer for supper the night before - that was a mistake I made once.

[CONSO]

As a flight surgeon I was taught it simply meant decompression of an aircraft which takes less than 0.5 seconds. That is considered by most authorities to be “explosive”.

Agreed- my point is that for the case(s) in point, and IMO the decompression time was most likely LONGER than .5 seconds simply due to the area of the " hole" and the volume of air to be removed.

The flight data recorders may well have picked up the actual times involved.

The hawaii convertible 737 could well have been near or less than the .5 seconds due to the VERY large areas involved.

[_Phoenix]

Conso,
groooan - and what difference would it have made except for some very uncomfortable passengers and possibly an injury nor two ? Why do you think a higher altitude with a higher delta p ( inside to outside ) would have done more structural damage ?
IMO - A higher delta p would/may open a slightly larger hole to the nearest circumferential/stringer in the skin.

Of course higher delta pressure or larger breach hole would have induce more structural damage. You need to understand the dynamics of decompression. It is based on delta pressure differentials, volumes, initial breach area and venting areas between opened volume vs. adjacent volumes (between cabin vs. sub-floor, lavatories, cockpit etc). The danger of structural damage is not at blown window but at junctions between floor, cross beams and frames, also at bulkheads upper attachments to stringers. Higher delta pressure will produce more stress at enclosed volumes vs cabin.
At 14000 ft the delta pressure was not strong enough to fail the overbin latches. For example, the Mythbusters decompression opened all overbins, for a smaller breach hole (but at 33000 ft)
Video at 2:54
https://youtu.be/Fi1_1l7M8FA?t=174
The flight data recorders may well have picked up the actual times involved. Nope

[andrasz]

News sources now say the bomb was likely concealed in a laptop.

[AreOut]

considering where it happened, good thing is they still have to conceal it :suspect:

[TeachMe]

People seem to be talking about two different things interchangeably:

1. The amount of damage of the explosion at various altitudes

and

2. The trigger mechanism (human / timer)

Just because the explosion may not cause more damage at a higher altitude does not mean that if it was human triggered the person who did it knew or thought that. All other things being equal, I would expect a suicide bomber to wait until a higher altitude and better location on the assumption more damage would be caused. Flight being late and low altitude to me suggests a timer.

On the other hand, if human triggered, maybe the bomber thought good enough, maybe so nervous thought it was at cruise altitude, or maybe just made a mistake. I suspect they will figure it out at the end though.

TME

[Teddy Robinson]

New sources being whom ? Are they closely connected with the investigation or speculating like everybody else?

There is some very interesting information regarding this incident on previous pages, call it "locally based observation" if you like.
What is interesting about it is not the mode of delivery, but why this aircraft in particular took the hit.

[Wageslave]

a/c Greek registry, company Djibouti owned, UAE based and incident occurred in Somalia where there is no government worth the name.

It's going to be an "interesting" investigation.

[A0283]

BBC just reports that Transport Minister officially confirmed it was a bomb.

[LlamaFarmer]

People seem to be talking about two different things interchangeably:

1. The amount of damage of the explosion at various altitudes

and

2. The trigger mechanism (human / timer)

Just because the explosion may not cause more damage at a higher altitude does not mean that if it was human triggered the person who did it knew or thought that. All other things being equal, I would expect a suicide bomber to wait until a higher altitude and better location on the assumption more damage would be caused. Flight being late and low altitude to me suggests a timer.

On the other hand, if human triggered, maybe the bomber thought good enough, maybe so nervous thought it was at cruise altitude, or maybe just made a mistake. I suspect they will figure it out at the end though.

TME


Or potentially both?


A human trigger to detonate in the cruise, but with a timer backup incase he loses his bottle?

Assuming the triggerman was not the brains behind it.

[MountainBear]

Of course it was a bomb, just like the downing of the Russian craft in Egypt was a bomb. Whatever a country needs to be a bomb, is a bomb. I look back on the 1960-2000 period and I just have to say, what a waste. So many mechanical or structural failures that could have been classified as bombs but were not. What on earth were security agencies thinking at that time?! Never let a crisis go to waste. It's a gosh darn good thing that we have learned that lesson so we can find a terrorist wherever and whenever we need to give the public a good scare and keep them in line.

It's a bomb citizen, do your duty and be frightened. Nothing else to see here, move along.

[Johno8]

Appears that your tinfoil hat might be a little too tight. :rolleyes:

[peekay4]

Airport workers seen with laptop used in Somalia in-flight jet blast

From CNN (http://www.cnn.com/2016/02/07/africa/somalia-airplane-explosion-video/):

(CNN) Somali intelligence officials say two airport workers handled a laptop believed to have contained a bomb that later exploded in a passenger plane.

In a video made public on Sunday by officials, one airport worker takes the laptop and hands it to another employee.

The employees then hand it over to a man who was killed when the laptop explosion blew a hole in the plane's fuselage, said Abdisalam Aato, a spokesman for the Somali Prime Minister.

Both workers have been arrested.

Further from VOA (http://www.voanews.com/content/airport-staff-airline-employees-detained-somali-plane-blast/3179920.html):

Somali government officials said Saturday airport security cameras caught two people dressed in military uniforms passing a laptop to the passenger who died after Tuesday's mid-flight bomb blast aboard a passenger plane.

"The National Intelligence Agency has security recordings showing two men giving a laptop, in a hidden way, to a passenger man. The man was identified as the dead body ejected out of the hole created by the explosion," Cabinet spokesman Abdisalan Ahmed Ato told VOA's Somali service.

An official of the Somali Intelligence Agency told VOA earlier that Mogadishu airport staff and employees of Daallo Airlines were among those who have been detained for questioning, including two people suspected of assisting the suspected bomber.

[PAXboy]

As of the time of writing, the BBC web report does not mention that the aircraft was subbing for Turkish. The Turkish change of operations certainly looks worth investigating.

[thf]

Al Jazeera: Somali jet suspect 'checked in on Turkish Airlines' (http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/02/somali-jet-blast-suicide-bomber-suspect-checked-turkish-airlines-160207150229224.html)

The suspected suicide bomber who blew himself up aboard a Somali airliner on a flight from Mogadishu to Djibouti was meant to board a Turkish Airlines flight, the head of Daallo Airlines told Al Jazeera. (...)

The 74 passengers aboard the flight were originally checked in with Turkish Airlines, which flies to Somalia three times per week, Mohamed Ibrahim Yasin Olad, Daallo Airlines chief told Al Jazeera on Sunday.

"They were not our passengers. Turkish Airlines cancelled its flight from Mogadishu that morning because their incoming flight from Djibouti could not come to Mogadishu because of what they said was strong wind," Olad said.

"They requested we carry the passengers on their behalf to Djibouti where they would continue their journey on a Turkish Airlines flight," Olad added.

"Turkish Airlines have not been in contact with us since the incident happened. You can say they are trying to distance themselves from the incident." Olad said. (...)

Al Jazeera contacted Turkish Airlines for comment but so far did not get a response. (...)

Somali state TV (SNTV) aired CCTV footage on Sunday showing what it said were the suspects behind the airplane blast. The footage showed three men exchanging what appeared to be a laptop at a coffee shop at the airport.

Abdullahi Abbdisalam Borleh, a Somali national, has been named by authorities as the man who was sucked out of Flight 3159. His badly burnt body was found some 30km outside the Somali capital.

Somali government spokesman Abdisalam Aato told Al Jazeera on Sunday that more than 20 suspects were in custody in connections with the explosion.

No one has claimed responsibility for the plane blast.

[onetrack]

Perhaps we can take some comfort from the fact that aircraft bombers are becoming less successful?
Surely, the elimination of some senior bomb-makers amongst the jihad set, must eventually have a negative impact on their followers successes? :hmm:

[Scuffers]

Perhaps we can take some comfort from the fact that aircraft bombers are becoming less successful?
Surely, the elimination of some senior bomb-makers amongst the jihad set, must eventually have a negative impact on their followers successes?

is there an argument that more modern planes are less vulnerable to this kind of attack?

Or is it just luck of the draw where it goes off?

[jolihokistix]

It is reported that they found the burnt body of the alleged bomber. If it reaches a maximum velocity of what, 200 kph (?) does the actual height make no further difference, whether 1,000 or 10,000 feet?

[Scuffers]

no, the higher up you are, the faster you will fall, as you get lower, air density increases, thus aero drag increases, thus you slow down.

[jolihokistix]

Thanks for that, Scuffers.

[Union Jack]

Mogadishu CCTV shows Somali jet 'bomber' being handed explosive-hiding laptop | Daily Mail Online (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3436426/CCTV-footage-shows-moment-suspected-bomber-Somali-jet-handed-laptop-explosives-concealed.html)

[CONSO]

the higher up you are, the faster you will fall, as you get lower, air density increases, thus aero drag increases, thus you slow down.

exactly- if you go high enough you can fall supersonic - speed of sound varies mostly with temperature until in the very very high stgratosphere

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHtvDA0W34I

do not try this at home

Felix Baumgartner's supersonic freefall from 128k' - Mission Highlights

[jolihokistix]

Another question that everyone must have thought but no-one has yet asked, to my knowledge. What is likely to happen to this airframe? Is it repairable, I wonder?

[DaveReidUK]

Another question that everyone must have thought but no-one has yet asked, to my knowledge. What is likely to happen to this airframe? Is it repairable, I wonder?

Clearly the damage is repairable.

Whether that will happen depends on a number of factors, not least on how much residual value there is in a 19-year-old airframe.

[Deep and fast]

So if the passenger was checked in on Turkish airlines, were they the target? They have some political decent in certain regions.

[MrDK]

Clearly the damage is repairable.

Whether that will happen depends on a number of factors, not least on how much residual value there is in a 19-year-old airframe.

... and to some extend whether OEM wants another hull loss on the record.


Another "having thought of" ...
Perhaps FL140 has some relation. Typically somewhere above FL100 the fasten seatbelt is turned off and a bit later passengers are allowed to turn on approved electronic devises, give that a minute more and that could coincide with near FL140. Assuming a climb rate of 1-2,000 fpm.

[Methersgate]

On the question of repairs...

I'm slightly rusty and stand to be corrected here but I think this is right:

From an insurance point of view, aircraft are treated much like ships. The policy is an Agreed Value Policy (not like your car). The OEM doesn't really have a say in whether the airframe is repaired or is treated as a Constructive Total Loss ("CTL") - which is what happens when the estimated cost of repair gets close to the agreed value, and there is a risk that it might exceed it - the matter is negotiated between the underwriters and the insured, which is when your broker really earns his pay, but the OEM can, and occasionally does, offer to repair at a figure below the hull value. A CTL means that the hull underwriters pay the agreed value and leave the insured owner to dispose of the remains.

In this case there is another question - if the loss was due to a bomb, it is a War Peril and as such the War Risks policy pays and the hull loss does not figure on the OEM's record of losses.

My hunch is that this aircraft will be a CTL due to the difficulty of making temporary repairs at Mogadishu - an airport that I last flew out of aboard an Aden Airways DC3...

Another case of a bomb in the lifejacket pouch (post 51) was the PAL 747 - PR 434 - in 1994 - one pax lost, aircraft diverted and landed.

[procede]

My hunch is a quick on site repair (basically glue or nail a plate on) and then fly to the south of France (Perpignan) unpressurized. There it either gets repaired or stripped for spare parts, whichever gives most residual value.

[Teddy Robinson]

This is what I have been alluding to.

In fact the Turkish flight in question had been cancelled for two days straight including the day of the incident itself citing "winds out of limits".
The conditions in Mogadishu were standard Mogadishu ...pretty much straight down the track 20kts .. which leads to some questions of course.

[Busbert]

I'd imagine that a quick and dirty boilerplate repair would be achievable by any sheet metal worker worth their salt. Cut out the damaged skin panel with nice rounded corners, generously stop drill the cracks, drop in a flush repair panel, and put a 3-4 frame wide boilerplate repair panel over the top picking up on the existing fastener holes. That would be sufficient to ferry fly the old bird back unpressurized to facility where a permanent repairs can be carried out. There were aircraft flown out of the Balkans in worse shape. Aluminum structures are remarkably repairable.

[flyems]

Another "having thought of" ...
Perhaps FL140 has some relation. Typically somewhere above FL100 the fasten seatbelt is turned off and a bit later passengers are allowed to turn on approved electronic devises, give that a minute more and that could coincide with near FL140. Assuming a climb rate of 1-2,000 fpm.

Not a lot of attention is given to requirements for electronic devices to be turned off on these routes, I would postulate that this pax had even less of an inclination to adhere to these requirements if he was read into the objectives with the device...

One could further not disregard the probability that he had no control over the device at the one end of the scale, or that he had no disclosure from the courier/maker as to the intention of the device at the other end...

[flyems]

iPad battery failure, or atomic powered Heart Pace-Maker

I'd be interested in data, specifically the means of getting fission from Pu-238, and the burn rate expected from a battery to produce this sort of effect?

[flyems]

To me it seems remarkably lucky that the individual believed to be responsible for this was allocated the seat they were.

I've not had the pleasure of this specific airline for a couple of years but they used to have a free seating policy?

[tdracer]

One could further not disregard the probability that he had no control over the device at the one end of the scale, or that he had no disclosure from the courier/maker as to the intention of the device at the other end...
Agreed, it's quite possible the 'bomber' thought he was a courier - 'deliver this laptop to Mr. X, it's very important' and had no idea he was on a one-way trip.

As for the repairability of the aircraft - based on the photos I've seen it should be a straight forward repair, basically replace a couple skin panels and stringers. As Busbert notes, aluminum panels can be readily repaired and the industry has had lots of practice. Recall that the United 747 that lost the cargo door out of Honolulu suffered far worse damage yet was repaired and returned to service.

[archae86]

iPad battery failure, or atomic powered Heart Pace-Maker
I'd be interested in data, specifically the means of getting fission from Pu-238, and the burn rate expected from a battery to produce this sort of effect?
Some hundreds or a few thousands of Pu-238 powered pacemakers were made and implanted in patients a few decades ago. As with the RTGs on deep space probes, this is a different isotope of Plutonium than that of interest for bombs. The mechanism is natural spontaneous decay, so no "means of getting fission" is employed at all--it would decay just sitting on the shelf. The amount of Pu-238 was in the range of 2 to 4 Curies. By the definition of a Curie, that means the radioactive decay events per second were in the range of 70 to 150 billion. As Pu-238 has an 88 year half life, and these devices were manufactured a while ago, the current rate would be less.

For most of us watts are more natural units than curies or disintegrations, so perhaps it may help to say that at time of manufacture the thermal decay heat was about a tenth of a watt (obviously electric power generation was rather less).

Pu-238 is not the stuff you want to make bombs of, and is actually regarded as a contaminant by bomb makers.

A speculation that the Mogadishu event could have been pacemaker caused is ill-informed and foolish. None of the battery types used have potential for so energetic an event. Especially not the atomic-powered ones.

[hoss183]

I can guess where you work archael86, with your NM address and knowledge ;)

[airman1900]

Somali Plane Revelations Add to Fears of Insider Attacks - WSJ (http://on.wsj.com/1KD1wT9)

From the above article:

Minister says an aviation worker was involved in Daallo Airlines attack

By Robert Wall and Heidi Vogt
Updated Feb. 9, 2016 5:42 p.m. ET
LONDON—Somalia’s transport minister on Tuesday said that an employee at the country’s civil aviation office aided the bombing of a Djibouti-bound plane last week, reinforcing concern among security experts that insider attacks are among the biggest threats to commercial flights.
...
Surveillance footage released by Somali officials over the weekend purports to show two men walking together through the airport terminal. One of the men takes an item from under his arm and passes it to a third man, walking in the opposite direction.

Somalia’s minister for transport and aviation, Ali Jama Jangali, Tuesday said that one of the men shown in the security camera footage was an airport employee who had worked “for a number of years” in the civil aviation office. “When he was recruited and how he was recruited, at what point he started working with them, all that is under investigation,” Mr. Jangali said. The other man in the video—the one who actually handed off the laptop—wasn't an airport employee, he said.
...
Somalia’s transport minister Mr. Jangali acknowledged there were “lapses” and “negligence,” though he did not provide details. “We are trying to ensure that those lapses never happen again,” he said.

[CityofFlight]

So what side of safety are the stuffy pilots going to pontificate now on?

It seems there are plenty of opinions claiming USA/TSA security is annoyingly unnecessary. How does that compare to the breeches happening tarmac side in the rest of the Americas, Europe, Africa, ME &'Asia? Having your choices into countries of risk, whether on the origin or destination end, describe your preferred security measures ?

I'd welcome what works and the retort from others why it doesn't. We'll never have a perfect world. Our jobs are to keep pax, cargo and ourselves safe. Inconvenience to employees is not factored into this strategy. It just is a way of life. So, in light of tarmac breeches happening around continents, what security is worth sticking to?

[flyems]

A speculation that the Mogadishu event could have been pacemaker caused is ill-informed and foolish. None of the battery types used have potential for so energetic an event. Especially not the atomic-powered ones.

That it had even been mentioned...

[Wageslave]

Tarmac breeches (sic) would be terribly uncomfortable, wouldn't they?
Imagine the mess when you ironed them!

[Ian W]

So what side of safety are the stuffy pilots going to pontificate now on?

It seems there are plenty of opinions claiming USA/TSA security is annoyingly unnecessary. How does that compare to the breeches happening tarmac side in the rest of the Americas, Europe, Africa, ME &'Asia? Having your choices into countries of risk, whether on the origin or destination end, describe your preferred security measures ?

I'd welcome what works and the retort from others why it doesn't. We'll never have a perfect world. Our jobs are to keep pax, cargo and ourselves safe. Inconvenience to employees is not factored into this strategy. It just is a way of life. So, in light of tarmac breeches happening around continents, what security is worth sticking to?

Or as it was put by the Roman Juvenal a couple of millennia ago
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwjfytLThe3KAhVW8WMKHUGaDQ0QFggdMAA&url=https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FQuis_custodiet_i psos_custodes%253F&usg=AFQjCNG3hrNC_PsFAK3J0YnfruLMLJLtFQ&sig2=qIKWJLYIYPUL5ws7z2feOg)

Who watches the watchmen?

So this has been a problem for a long time. At some point you have to trust someone and that trust can be misplaced. For example, a regime where crossing into airside is controlled has to trust that a pilot will not give a bootful of left rudder at a critical moment, so as the pilot is trusted not do that, confiscating his 6ml pot of yoghurt is a little foolish. Slightly different level for flight attendants but not much. Why should TSA be allowed to cross back and forth groundside to airside all the time without search - they could be split groundside crew and airside crew, etc etc.

As with all security it is people security that is always the weak point and is the most difficult to enforce as who watches the watchmen?

[lomapaseo]

Who Watches the Watchmen

Before we get too paranoid

it is the unseen who watches the watchmen

That is where the corrective action needs to go so I don't expect it ever to become visible to the public masses.

[Hotel Tango]

A year ago or so, I watched a security officer take a litre bottle of water through the security check. I asked for the supervisor and mentioned what I had just witnessed. He was courteous and understanding but said that it was permitted for security staff to bring food and bottles air side. I pointed out that it would only take one rogue (or threatened) staff member to bring in one or several bottles, which were ehm not filled with H2O, over a period of time and then, on a given day, pass them on to a "passenger". Even though he shared my concerns as far as I know the dispensation still stands! This is BRUSSELS, not some vague third world airport!

[edmundronald]

Ultimately, there is no way of screening the myriad of airside workers, reliably. They know all the nooks and crannies of the system.

In the end flying is quite safe, and there are few such incidents. Let's hope it stays this way. Maybe the industry could invest some more money in refreshing pilots manual flying skills, rather than pursuing refinements of security theater.

Edmund

[dakota_bandit]

I think the thing that is interesting, is that the laptops were passed in the VIP area, this area is tightly controlled by the government and is only for use by those on government business. You just can't pay $100 and use it ;-)


The other thing not reported is that it was military grade explosives that were used. This throws open a whole new scenario, now it could be said that Al Shabab or ISIS have access to such stuff, due to their recent successes at attacking AMISOM bases, however, they haven't claimed responsibility and my personal feeling is that they wouldn't attack the airport for reasons I wont go into.


The next day two people were arrested for trying to sneak onto another flight, again this attack hasn't been claimed either. again it was mil grade explosives used.


Airside security at MGQ leaves a lot to be desired, flightline badges are controlled by SCAMA and they have tried to cut down on who has one, but in my opinion, and as anyone who has been to MGQ knows, if you have money, it talks.

[Wageslave]

The other thing not reported is that it was military grade explosives that were used. This throws open a whole new scenario,

Steady on! Mog and Somalia in general is awash with military explosives. I don't think this indicates Al Shabab any more than it does any other disgruntled Somali tom, dick or harry with a grudge, blood-feud or desire to create mayhem, all of which are the national pastime.

[ozaub]

Perhaps we shouldn’t get too excited about this bombing. In Jan 1985 there was a near identical event, and then from Oct 1985 to Oct 1986 there were another four quite similar.
Edited content from aerospaceweb.org:
23 January 1985 - Lloyd Aèreo Boliviano
Boeing 727 left La Paz, Mexico, for Santa Cruz, Bolivia. While en route with 127 occupants a passenger entered the forward lavatory carrying a suitcase. Inside the suitcase was dynamite that exploded, killing the passenger. Plane landed safely with no additional fatalities.
30 October 1985 - American Airlines
A bomb hidden in a tote bag exploded aboard a Boeing 727. The blast occurred in the forward baggage hold while being unloaded and there were no fatalities.
2 April 1986 - Trans World Airlines Flight 840
A Boeing 727 preparing to land at Athens, Greece, was badly damaged by a bomb explosion. The device consisted of 1 lb of plastic explosive placed under a seat cushion. The detonation blew a 24 ft² (2.25 m²) hole in the fuselage resulting in a rapid decompression that sucked four people from cabin.
3 May 1986 - Air Lanka Flight 512
A Lockheed L-1011 carrying 148 was parked at Colombo terminal, preparing to continue on to the Maldives when an explosive concealed in an onboard cargo crate exploded. The blast ripped the plane in half killing 21 and injuring 41 people. The bomb was most likely planted by Tamil rebels to sabotage peace talks with the Sri Lankan government.
26 October 1986 - Thai Airways International Flight 620
Airbus A300 from Manila to Osaka with 239 occupants; while cruising at 33,000 ft over Tosa Bay off the coast of Japan, an explosion occurred in the aft lavatory. The blast caused a rapid decompression and damaged two of the plane's hydraulic systems. The captain and co-pilot initiated an emergency descent and managed to land heavily damaged aircraft safely at Osaka with no fatalities. The cause of the blast was a hand grenade a passenger was attempting to smuggle into Japan that exploded in the lavatory.
Most of the planes were repaired.

[captplaystation]

Maybe it is just me, but I completely fail to see the point you are trying to make.

[ozaub]

OK; points to ponder
• 30 years ago airliner bombings were commonplace - several each year
• Pressurised cabins are far more robust than commonly thought - they don’t pop like balloons
• Bombings now attract more attention because they are relatively rare - especially given the three-fold increase in air travel over past 30 years
• Appreciate the efficacy and necessity of airport security

[airman1900]

From Flight International, 16 February 2016, page 6:


Pilots of the Daallo Airlines Airbus A321 that suffered an in-flight explosion after departing Mogadishu initially cited a pressurisation issue, but did not declare an emergency. French investigation authority BEA has disclosed initial details of the 2 February incident, citing preliminary information from its Somali counterparts. Investigators believe the aircraft was climbing through a height of around 12,000ft at the time. One occupant of the aircraft is suspected to have been ejected through the rupture in the fuselage caused by the explosion. The Somali transport minister has reportedly attributed the damage to a bomb.

[andrasz]

Agreed, it's quite possible the 'bomber' thought he was a courier - 'deliver this laptop to Mr. X, it's very important' and had no idea he was on a one-way trip.

Based on the damage, I'd say that is not very likely. The explosion happened around the level of the cabin floor, implying the laptop (or the bag) was placed under the seat or next to the cabin wall. If the laptop were carried with no intention of using it on the way, it is far more likely to have been placed in the overhead bin, especially on a half-full flight.

[cooperplace]

Passengers put carry-on bags on the floor all the time. I was directed to do this by cabin crew a couple of weeks ago. the near-floor location in no way establishes guilt. Until we know for certain that the deceased was the bomber, his family at least deserves the courtesy of not tarring him with this accusation.

[MrSnuggles]

I saw a mention of this earlier in the thread, but no elaboration or discussion, so here goes.

News from CNN:

https://youtu.be/0juAjl1tyVk?t=114

(If the link time does not work, it is around 1:50)

Apparently the two airport workers who handed over a suspicious laptop-looking item to the man found burnt outside Mogadishu were subject to a car bomb three days after the airplane incident. One of the men was killed, but the other one is in custody now.

[jolihokistix]

Did the passenger in the seat behind place it on the floor and toe it forwards? Then head off to the can? All kinds of scenarios seem possible.

[andrasz]

My understanding is that the CCTV footage confirms the laptop was handed over to the passenger who was then ejected.


?

[sitigeltfel]

Life sentences for the two "masterminds", one of whom is still on the run....

An employee at the main airport in Mogadishu, Abdiwali Mahmud Maow, was given the life sentence, along with Arais Hashi Abdi, who was tried in absentia as he had evaded arrest.
The two were convicted of being members of al-Shabab.
The other eight were convicted of helping to plan the attack, but not of membership of the al-Qaeda-linked militant group.
Daallo Airlines blast: Somalia sentences two to life in prison - BBC News (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-36411555)