Listening in to pilot rt calls

[g_conaty]

Im thinking of buying a radio so i can listen into rt calls between the pilots and airport ATC.

Has anyone got any suggestions as to what i can buy for about 100 pound or less because its only for light use.

[Keef]

Two points here:

1. Technically, it's illegal to listen to aircraft radio without a licence. Not that it's very likely you'd be "done " for it, but be aware.

2. For £100, you won't get anything new that's useable for listening to airband. It pretty well has to have digital tuning to be any good.

Look out for a second hand one - any of the well-known brands of digital/synthesised receivers (or scanners, but they tend to be dearer and to cover a vast range of frequencies where you won't hear anything interesting).

[Evo7]

Good way to learn RT though, so dont give up on the idea - listening in to a full-ATC airfield is very useful, especially if you're learning somewhere with only FIS or A/G service (although even Speedbirds can have distinctly non-CAP413 RT at times)

I found some cheapo ones on ebay for very little, but I'd echo what Keef said - without digital tuning they'll be fairly useless. You would probably be best off trying to sweet-talk someone at your club into lending you their Icom for a weekend.

[MAJIC9]

are those scanners so expensive over there? I got mine for around $120... it can pick up quite a few different bands... ATC being one of them ;)

[Evo7]

To my surprise I just found a digital one online for £40, so I guess not :) No idea if it's any good... :rolleyes:

[Noggin]

"Technically, it's illegal to listen to aircraft radio without a licence. Not that it's very likely you'd be "done " for it, but be aware."

Not true! It is illegal to make known, use or record the contents of any message not intended for your reception. It is not illegal to listen to it.

AR-108 Maycom Airband Receiver Price: £69.95 (€111,92) from
http://www.wsplc.com/

or try:

http://www.nevada.co.uk/
http://www.lowe.co.uk/
http://www.mlands.co.uk/

[Aussie Andy]

I got myself a Maycom AR-108 for the same reason when I was doing my license. Its cheap & cheerful and I'm very happy with it for this type of use. Around £80 and available from several suppliers in this contry, e.g. here (http://www.transair.co.uk/jepdoubles/maycom.htm)

[PPRuNe Dispatcher]

Just to set the record straight :

Under the Wireless Telegraphy Act of 1949 it is illegal to listen to or receive information from any radio transmission, unless you have authorisation from the Postmaster General. Permission has been given to listen to and receive information only from broadcast stations (e.g. Radio 1, BBC TV) and Radio Amateurs.

"It's OK so long as you don't record it, make use of it, pass it on, etc." is incorrect. It's an urban legend.

That said, you are VERY unlikely to be prosecuted for listening to the civilian air band frequencies.

Mik

[BEagle]

Noggin is THE authority on this subject. Read his reply, buy a decent airband receiver and use what you hear to improve your own RT skills.

But DO NOT, for example, phone up the local rag and say "I've just heard............."

[Noggin]

Prune Dispatcher

I do concede that the 49 Act has been modified in recent years and that Section 5 now says that "It is an offence to "deliberately" receive messages the receipt of which is "unauthorised." Aviation messages are for the principle purpose of "flight safety" and could be deemed to be of interest to aviators in general.

BR68 Rev 2 Issued by the RA States:

If any message, the receipt of which is not authorised by this licence, is received by means of the Station, neither the licensee nor any person using the Station should make known the contents of any such message, its content, its origin or destination, its existence or the fact of its receipt (exceptions stated) or to allow it to be copied or made use of.

This was the original WT Act wording that appeared in transmitting Licences issued by the PMG etc prior to the addition of the terms "deliberate" and "unauthorised" Hardly Urban Myth!

The point being it is not illegal to own a radio or to listen on any particular frequency, anything you may hear is of course incidental.

[PPRuNe Radar]

I'd have to go with PPRuNe Dispatcher on this .... surely THE authority is the Government by way of the Wireless Telegraphy Act 1949 (http://www.radio.gov.uk/topics/legislation/wtact1949.pdf)

Section 5 (snipped version) states :

Any person who:

(b) otherwise than under the authority of the Postmaster General or in the course of his duty as a servant of the Crown :

uses any wireless telegraphy apparatus with intent to obtain information as to the contents ........ of any message which neither the person using the apparatus nor any person on whose behalf he is acting is authorised by the Postmaster General to recieve

.... shall be guilty of an offence under this act.

[Noggin]

It would appear they publish doccuments that don't agree. I'll stick to the one they issued me with.

[BEagle]

Someone I once knew - not me, of course - once owned one of those natty little AOR scanners. This thing would pick up most transmissions from DC to light - Or so I understand.

Once upon a time he happened to switch it on in London, apparently and scanned some NFM frequencies somewhere below 1000 MHz. Purely out of curiosity to see what his radio would pick up, of course... Allegedly. Some minutes later he was somewhat startled to hear a voice say "Listen, you slag - I know you can hear me. This is PC *** and I'm telling you that either you give me the £500 or you'll get nicked...."

Now came the problem. Should he ring the Met and tell them what he'd heard and risk prosecution for eavesdropping? Or keep schtum and allow some bent copper to get away with criminal activity.....

I understand that he took a third option. He sent an anonymous letter to PC*** advising him that his call had been recorded and that copies were being forwarded to the authorities.... Or so he said. Allegedly....

[Keef]

Licences

There seems to be a variety of opinions on what the Wireless Telegraphy Act says. My licences (various) are old, but they all include the wording quoted by PPRuNe Dispatcher.

The reality remains that if you are listening to aircraft comms as a way to improve your skills as a pilot using the radio (and nothing else), you are not likely to be prosecuted. If anyone even knew you were doing it.

Receivers

There are three ways these things tune:

1. Continuous tuning, with a pointer display like your average broadcast portable. Useless for airband.

2. Continuous but with digital readout. Useable but you need one with fine enough tuning to select the frequency you want. I've seen some that jumped in large increments and were useless.

3. Proper "dial in the frequency" digital (ie synthesised). This is what you want. If you can get one for under £100, that's excellent.


I've not used anything under £100 that I know would do the job, but looking at the wsplc website, the Maycom AR108 and FR100 and the Yupiteru look like 3. above, the Steepletones look like 2. above.

The Yupiteru I know, and it will certainly do the job.

Good luck, whichever way you go. Personally, I'd go for second hand (provided you get a good deal).

[jonathang]

Got my digital one for £60 from a UK company.

Tandy Branded.

JG

[phd]

Icom IR2 digital scanner with lots of programmable memories is the dogs doo-daas at about £149 quid.

phd

[Clear Air Turbulence]

Can anyone explain why I am able to pick up airband on my alarm clock radio? I was slowly loosing reception on 95.8 (no accounting for taste!) so started re-tuning only to pick up a conversation between London and a BA flight inbound to EGLL on 96.2. Now it is almost impossible to pick up any radio station but the aircraft RT is very clear!

[Biker Pilot]

I would certainly second the idea of getting a second hand unit cheap from somewhere (as long as it was digital, etc) as after you gain your PPL you may find yourself wanting to upgrade to an airband tranciever as a backup to the on-board radio in case of failure (or find yourself drawn to aircraft without an installed radio).

Don't bother with the major airport frequencies as they can be very difficult to follow, aircraft are often switching frequencies and they are not exactly CAP413.

Depending on where you live, you should find a number of airfields within easy enough reach providing a range of services that you can listen to that will help, however, as with most things, practice is the only real way of improving your own skills. Go through the "conversations" in CAP413 with someone else and also work through Safety Sense Leaflet 22 "Radiotelephony" (http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/224/ssl22.pdf) which also has an example of the RT practical exam in it.

BP

[Squawk7000]

As a lawyer (amongst other things !) Prune Dispatcher is quite correct although you are very unlikely to be prosecuted.

[pulse1]

Listening to the news this morning it appears that a Mr Paul Way(?) has been listening in on to transmissions covering VIP security - government memebers, royals, visitors etc. Apparently he then publishes details on his website. It is possible that he assisted football hooligans last May. To date, he has not even been prosecuted for that so it would appear that you are unlikely to get done for listening to ATC

[Evo7]

Radio 4 had a report on this - including some 'security' chap calling for ownership and use to be illegal... :(

To quote: "They can only be used for illegal activity. It's similar to saying to somebody: 'It's OK to have a gun, as long as you don't put bullets in it'."

Surely I (or any FRTOL holder) can legally use them while sitting in a UK registered aircraft... :p

:rolleyes: :)

[CBLong]

BBC story re: Paul Wey (http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/england/newsid_2064000/2064388.stm)

[CBLong]

...and here's Paul Wey's site (www.geocities.com/proma1_1999), although it seems to have (understandably!) exceeded its bandwidth limit for now and is inaccessible. Various other people are up to same thing - Google finds them easily enough.

Surely the 'security forces' must take some responsibility for broadcasting such information in 'clear' in the first place?? I'm amazed that they do so, personally... I thought the Met had recently been issued with encrypted digital radios, for precisely this sort of reason??

cbl.

[DamienB]

Paul's PROMA site is simply a searchable list of frequencies, or it was last time I looked at it. Obviously a slow news day for the BBC, taking some unsuspecting bloke up on the roof and asking him to demo his scanner on the off chance he picks up something juicy.

He certainly doesn't publish transcripts of anything heard, and refused point blank to assist a Milwall supporter with police frequencies when it was asked about on a scanner newsgroup.

It should be noted that there are plenty of publications out there that list the same frequencies published on Paul's site. But hey, the internet! Terrorism! Gullible bloke who lives with his parents! Terrorism! Ban something! Anything! Terrorism!

Funny how nobody was concerned about scanner use over the last 30 or so years of IRA attacks eh.

[Reichman]

I was browsing the net the other day and put my aircraft type and station into Google. Among the things it came up with was a sight which had transcripts of London Mil Rx/Tx. It gave time and Callsign (mine included).