Shirts, Ties, Epaulettes and Flying Suits. [Archive]

READY MESSAGE

23rd Jun 2002, 02:39

Keef -

Probably the stripe bearing folk at the PFA rally would be Cabair instructors as they, like many other flying schools, wear the tribal markings. It may look odd to those of us already involved in aviation at some level to see someone covered in gold braid jumping in and out of a C150 but in actual fact the punters love it. Take the Cabair schools around London, all their instructors look smart and utterly professional and the public love it.

Back to the original thread though, I have heard several stories about PPLs wearing stripes to take their mates on an hour long sortie into the local area. I know of one who was wearing 4 gold bars and taken aside by a CFI and politely shown the error of his ways. (Nothing to do with the fact the CFI only wore 3 bars!!) The one that takes the glory is the bloke who upon the issue of his PPL had his chequebook and credit cards changed to 'Captain' instead of Mr!!

I also witnessed 4 people getting out of a cherokee all wearing flying suits the other day as well. Yes, even the 2 back seat passengers! What are these people on????

Amazing isn't it!

RM

GoneWest

23rd Jun 2002, 02:58

I also witnessed 4 people getting out of a cherokee all wearing flying suits the other day as well. Yes, even the 2 back seat passengers! What are these people on????

FUMES - if their departure was within weight and balance.

Whilst not defending these muppets (once saw a guy clamber out of a cherokee - Liverpool, I think - wearing a RED flying suit covered in Red Arrows patches)...they just might be playing the old fireproof card.

I think equally sad is the wearing of white leather gloves.

B2N2

23rd Jun 2002, 03:49

True story time....
Years and years ago in a country far away (France Le Bourget 1990-ish) at THE airshow I ran into an vague friend.
He wore a mil.flightsuit with all the badges.
I knew he had a ppl and his own single engine something.
Asked him how he got there.The reply was ..' I flew in on Bravo Mike Whiskey..'.
Took me a little while to figure out he meant his BMW 316.
He was not amused that I showed up to burst his bubble since he was talking to somebody who apperently bought this crap..
:D :D :D

slim_slag

23rd Jun 2002, 04:08

I know of one who was wearing 4 gold bars and taken aside by a CFI and politely shown the error of his ways. (Nothing to do with the fact the CFI only wore 3 bars!!)

Well, both of them are tossers to be wearing stripes, but IMO they both have the right to wear anything that doesn't compromise safety.

I don't think an employee has any business telling a paying customer what to wear. The CFI should be taken aside and politely shown the error of his ways

WestWind1950

23rd Jun 2002, 06:05

years ago in California I went for a hot-air balloon flight. I couldn't believe it when the pilots showed up wearing dark blue pants, not jeans, short sleeved white shirts with golden stripes on the shoulders!! how decadent!! sorry...but being a balloon pilot myself I thought it pretty stupid.
But the paying passengers seemed to love it! I guess it makes them feel they're in "professional" hands, though what I saw during the set up of the 8 balloons I did not find very professional!
I've worn the usually flight suit with patches and pins, that's tradition in the balloonist world and fun, besides being very practical, and for plane competions I might wear it, too, but not during normal PPL flights. Don't need the snickers of my fellow flyiers..heehee
And just check-out some of your fellow PPL'er visiting cards...great! :rolleyes:

keep flying!!

WestWind1950

Final 3 Greens

23rd Jun 2002, 07:56

Gone West

Would be interested in alternative suggestions to gloves for those of us who suffer from sweaty palms! Having once had the yoke slip out of my hand on final, I have worn gloves since, although they are slightly inconvenient when changing frequencies etc.

However, as for epaulettes etc :D :D :D :D :D

distaff_beancounter

23rd Jun 2002, 09:53

Another true story ....

Yesterday, I & another woman PPL, flew to Cambridge. We were both wearing OUR usual pilots' "uniforms" of tee-shirt & jeans (& of course hand-bags :D )

This proved useful, when we did our interpretation of Cambridge's Park & Ride service......

..... Well we did PARK the aircraft at the airport, walked the 200m to the Park & Ride carpark, mingled with the shoppers, & caught a RIDE on the bus into central Cambridge, for the bargain price of £1.40 return. (You can now do the same at Norwich).

I am not sure that we would have passed off, as shoppers, in flying suits with 4 gold bars! :D :D :D

stiknruda

23rd Jun 2002, 10:40

Distaff Beancounter

The Norwich P&R system is super. As one who works in Norwich I frequently make use of it. Home to office is about 25-40mins dependant upon traffic/school children/lolly-pop folk.

Home to Norwich is about 5 or 6 mins in the twin-winged pocket rocket and then another 15 mins on the bus to the city centre!

It really is great if you intend going somewhere in the aeroplane after work or for work!

I saw the Cabair crowd on Friday, too. In fact had a quiet word with a couple of them who were prodding the fabric on my aeroplane. Obviously Cabair uses aluminium aeroplanes as they've wasted all the fabric material on the studes!

I wear a flying suit, helmet, white gloves and a parachute in my aerobatic biplane. The flying suit because all the pockets zip up and I don't distribute the contents of my pockets down the back end. The suit is also Nomex'd which is a small comfort.

In my vintage taildragger, I tend to wear shorts and shirt and can not imagine dressing up to go for a tootle in that!

Stik

BRL

23rd Jun 2002, 10:43

This from someone who was/is unhappy with uk ga....

Finally, I have found the level of pretentiousness displayed at some of the flying schools, frankly absurd. At one school i visited, it appeared (judging by the plethora of gold stripes on display) that everyone was a Captain, even the rather spotty youth who answered the phone. What is this nonsense?. .No amount of gold braid will make someone something they arn't, so why pretend otherwise?. .I think that GA in this country needs to take a long, hard look at itself if it is to prosper.

Taken from this thread..... Unhappy......... (http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=42653)

Whirlybird

23rd Jun 2002, 11:05

Well, this thread has got to two pages in a day, so it's obvious what everyone's interests really are. :D

Just has a thought though. When a woman gets out of a helicopter, people look around for the pilot. So maybe if I had black trousers, tie, four stripes, white gloves, shiny shoes, badge saying Helicopter Pilot...nah, they'd still ask me in amazement: "Oh, do you fly helicopters?" :confused:

sennadog

23rd Jun 2002, 11:07

Final 3 Greens, the only thing that I can suggest is some sailing gloves from someone like Musto. They are fingerless so you can easily tune dials and fiddle with things and they breathe as well, so your sweaty mitts can dry off.

I use these ones for sailing but I haven't tried them for flying as I don't have sweaty mitts.....

http://www.musto.co.uk/media/images/407.gif

GoneWest

23rd Jun 2002, 14:11

Hey - if the gloves, or the shirt, the tie, the bars etc. are for "medical" reasons (for want of a better word) that's fine.

If the gloves (especially) are to make someone feel like a fighter pilot, that is sad.

Slightly different tack (get the sailing gloves [ho ho]) - I'd be curious to know, for the purposes of this thread where the dividing line comes between "general aviation" and whatever level you wish to put above it.

Would an air taxi operation in, say, a Seneca, come under "general aviation" or not?? Should that Seneca pilot wear bars whilst carrying pasengers - but not whilst flying the same airframe at the weekend on a jolly??

englishal

23rd Jun 2002, 16:06

I'd say that for any sort of commercial venture, whether it be flying sightseeing trips, or air taxi etc, then it is ok for the pilot to wear a couple of gold bars. Maybe it'd make their passengers feel more confident in their ability, and possiblility make the company look more professional. However for a PPL, it is a bit sad, and makes you look a ****.

From what I've seen no self respecting PPL in their right mind would dream of dressing in gold stripes and shirts with a pair of wings on. Now shorts and a Hawaiian shirt on the other hand....:)

EA

slim_slag

23rd Jun 2002, 16:10

Would an air taxi operation in, say, a Seneca, come under "general aviation" or not??

In the States that operation would come under Part 135 (carrying passengers or freight for hire), so not GA which is generally considered to be Part 91. You can fly a 737 under part 91, happens all the time, and so has nothing to do with weight of aircraft.

Should that Seneca pilot wear bars whilst carrying pasengers

When I was messing around in Part 135 world, we would wear whatever was suitable for the climate, though if the flight had paying passengers we would dress appropriately. Trousers, shirts and smart (appropriate) shoes would be usual. If we thought a tie was needed we would wear a tie, but in the West it would not be often. Even the "poshest" punters would not expect a tie, go to the swank restaurants in the West USA and see how many people are wearing a tie.

Bars? - yeh right!!

When instructing, we would wear sensible shoes (clean sneakers), smart sensible trousers or tailored shorts, and the 'company golf shirt'. You should aim to be smarter than the customer, but never ever ever mention the customer's dress code.

Actually the only time an FBO/Flying School employee (a truly hot shot instructor) mentioned my clothes to me was before an aerobatics lesson. He told me to go change my smart shoes for some scruffy and comfortable sneakers which would not slip off the rudders.

stiknruda is correct in the only time GA pilots need to be aware of what you wear is when you are upside down or pulling several g.

AMEX

23rd Jun 2002, 16:11

Once upon a time,... I worked for Europe's best pilot shop (not my words) and met a guy in the shop who was travelling rather a lot on jumbo's and loved having his picture taken with the crew.
The funny thing is that he also loved wearing the full uniform for the picture so never travelled without wearing one (4 bars, jacket and shiny shoes).
He actually showed us a photo where you can see the F/O in the background who is about to burst laughing :D :D

I tell you in this shop I have seen quite a few professional microsoft pilots and some really are funny. No doubt they wore the full outfit when the "fly" the 74.

redsnail

23rd Jun 2002, 16:11

Gonewest,
If the company stipulates that you wear bars, tie and a hat, then you wear it....
I used to feel a tad foolish getting out of the C207 in the bush with the "full uniform" on. ie I mean the wings, bars (we called them ****-er bars) etc. Fortunately we were north of the 26th parallel (South) so a tie wasn't necessary.
However, getting out of a Dash 8 with the bars, wings, tie and hat didn't feel so bad. ;)

For private flying, I just wore what was comfortable. (Although, I have flown a plane naked. Should I have drawn a tie on?)

LPL

23rd Jun 2002, 16:55

After reading this popular and amusing topic on dress code for flying.........I'd like to know if there are any major airline carriers who's pilots uniforms don't sport gold or silver stripes and a peaked cap, after all this is 2002 and many legal eagles, although a different proffesion, are starting to ditch the old wigs and gowns.
Regards
LPL

Chuck Ellsworth

23rd Jun 2002, 16:58

Whirlybird:

When a woman gets out of an aircraft if she wears nothing, that would divert the question about the flying part.:D :D :D

Cat Driver:

.................
:D The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no.:D

redsnail

23rd Jun 2002, 17:04

I don't know about "major airlines"
However, NJS's Dash 8 operation in northern Australia used to wear RM Williams beige moleskins with a ochre coloured shirt. Akubras were the hat of choice. I thought they looked great and much better than the blue and whites.
The uniform of the Child flight (I think??) helo pilots consisted of blue trousers and a denim shirt with "Child flight" embroidered on them. Again, smart and suited the operation.

Unfortunately, I can't see many airlines going away from the traditional look. Some don't have hats though. The public just like to be "reassured" I think.

macky42

23rd Jun 2002, 19:13

Final 3 Greens

I used to get sweaty palms too, so I wore a golf glove on my left hand, nothing on the right. Didn't tell anyone though in case they laughed :)

BEagle

23rd Jun 2002, 19:18

Give us the gory details, Reddo......

If the inadequately-testiculated get all moist by wearing the uniform of some Ruritanian Grand Admiral complete with dangly gold string on the shoulders, rabbit fur collar, long silk gloves and a dead chicken hat then just let the poor saps fulfil their fantasies if it keeps them happy!

Perhaps marginally more appropriate then the Irvin jacket once worn by someone in an Aerobat..............

Legalapproach

23rd Jun 2002, 19:45

LPL

"Many legal Eagles are starting to ditch the wig and gown"

Are they? An interesting suggestion because at the moment we have no choice in the matter. Wigs and gowns have not been abolished and therefore we have no option but to wear them. If I decided to ditch mine I would get very short shrift because it is still mandatory "uniform" in court. As it happens most of us are in favour of retaing wigs and gowns because they imbue a degree of anonimity which enables us to carry out our role without being seen as an individual .

As far as flying is concerned I often wear a flying suit whilst flying open cockpit or aerobatic aircraft because of the convenience of having everything contained within the pockets. I wouldn't dream of wearing such a suit if flying a spamcan (although many, many years ago we did wear the full kit including life jacket and bone dome whilst flying UAS Bulldogs). As to gloves I have to admit to still being attached to my old cape leathers particularly for the walk round and because I am so used to wearing them.

Did know a chap in the RAF who had "left" and "right" written on the back of his gloves after a slight misunderstanding with a vacation instruction from ATC. Now he's flying for BA I wonder whether he still flies wearing gloves.

Biker Pilot

24th Jun 2002, 09:06

Flicking through the AFE catalogue included with the PFA mag at the rally yesterday, I had to smirk when I came across their 5-bars designed for those who want to take the p*** out of those 4-bar captain's at their flight club.

:D

BP

RotorHorn

24th Jun 2002, 11:27

I think the full-on pilot outfit has its place. When doing a mates wedding the other weekend, I 'borrowed' a blue jersey and some four-stripers and also some exceptionally shiny shoes. Really looked the part for the photos.

I suppose there is a side-effect of instilling confidence in your passengers. I mean, would you prefer to fly with a single striper or a four striper at the controls?

Or to put it another way, when you go in MacDonalds - do you prefer to get served by the bloke with 5 stars , or Johnny No-Stars...?

;)

Romeo Romeo

24th Jun 2002, 14:16

Wearing clothes which make you look like an instructor (blue trousers and a white shirt, for example) can mean you can pretend you're a training flight and get a discount on landing fees. I've not tried it, but apparently it works at Wolverhampton! I usually wear somthing that I don't mind getting oil and grass over and won't burst into flames if there's a cockpit fire. I suppose leather gloves would be useful here, but I've never worn them.

Rod1

24th Jun 2002, 14:31

OK, I fly a verity of aircraft from aerobatic through gliders to spamcans. I usually wear a flying suit. If this makes me a sad weirdo then so be it.

In the suit are the necessary paraphernalia to break a jammed canopy and thus survive a crash.

To cut my straps if they are jammed and thus survive a crash.

It has a degree of fire resistance, so I may maintain control of a burning aircraft for long enough to survive a crash.

I do not mind lying on the ground under the aircraft to give it a through DI, which helps, avoid having a crash.

I never fly with lose articles, as you never know when you might meet someone coming the other way and end up in an extreme unusual attitude avoiding them.

If I end up in the water, I have a verity of things, which will help me survive the ditching, and the suit is better than jeans for surviving from hypothermia.

It contains a basic tool kit which I have used on many occasions to stick the A/C back together to get home from deserted farm strips in some very remote locations in Scotland.

If I visit a “posh” airfield I take the suit off and leave it in the a/c. I have normal clothes on underneath; I can vanish into the crowd whenever I like!

To me this is just as sensible as practicing stalls and PFL’s. They all make it more likely that I will survive an emergency.

I had better put the suit on quick to avoid the flames:)

Rod

niknak

24th Jun 2002, 17:34

The wearing of gloves and overalls seems to one of the few emninently sensible militaryisms that have crept into civil aviation, in event of a fire in the cockpit they afford protection which you may be very grateful for at a later date.

As for uniforms, bars and stripes............ :rolleyes:

formationfoto

24th Jun 2002, 17:40

I was a genuine 'only for prats' sort of guy until I started to fly the Tiger Moth and Chipmunk. In the Tiger flying suit, goggles, and white leather gloves are a practicaility for comfort, warmth, and digt articulation. In the Chipmunk (mine at least) you need something overall like to collect the oil the engine throws out.
I know this post was about bars etc. but often it all gets lumped into the one by those with the benign environment of a C152 or PA28 cabin.

Trislander

24th Jun 2002, 18:20

Well I remember a thread about a year or so ago about the famous TV-presenting aviator Brendan O'Brien. It went on about the fact that even when he was on location at the spotter's gallery at LHR he was still wearing his flying jacket and life vest! But some organisations want their piloting staff to have that professional look, such as FTO's and Air Taxi companies. The producers of 'Flightline' obviously wanted to make sure the viewers realised that he is a professional pilot and knows what he is talking about when it comes to aviation. It also provides a good image for the show.

On the other hand, back in my PPL training days (erm, last year!) I was at the flight school preparing for a lesson when a lapsed-PPL holder walked in, with full commercial pilots apparel, and even had one of those 'PPL' wings badges from Transair hand-stitched onto his Jumper. He had only come down for a trial lesson with his family to see whether or not he wanted to re-validate his PPL after all those years. One of the instructors commented that he was wearing two stripes more than himself! He had 4 stripes.

And flying jackets- I don't think that they should be knocked. Plenty of non-pilots wear them, so why shoulden't a real pilot?

Regards Trislander

distaff_beancounter

24th Jun 2002, 18:55

Flying Suits

I would like to amend some of my previous posts, if I had inadvertently denegrated those who wear flying-suits, when flying REAL aircraft, such as classic taildraggers, open cock pits, & aerobatic beasties.

For those aircraft, a flying suit is sensible, practical AND looks correct.

IMHO, a flying-suit, especiailly with 4 gold bars, just looks a tad over the top in a C172, PA28 etc. :D

Evo7

24th Jun 2002, 19:10

I'm always slightly amused watching people wearing full immersion suits climbing into a PA-28 for the hop to Sandown or Bembridge. Lifejackets I agree with, but it is only the Solent in summer. Most of them look more likely to die from the heat....

AerBabe

24th Jun 2002, 19:55

What you don't realise is that a growbag can be really sexy :o

paulo

24th Jun 2002, 20:25

Now just wait a minute... who's been editing my thread title? The next we'll know it'll be "Shirts, Ties, Epaulettes, Flying Suits, Authentic Oil Painting of your PA-28 in Battle of Britain Flypast..."

It's only taken me two years to think of this. Get your own bloody thread. ;)

mattpilot

24th Jun 2002, 21:14

here at this flying school in the US they make us students wear (during winter times only), dark shoes & pants, blue aviator shirts with maroon (sp?) epaulettes.

We look like blue smurfs :)

distaff_beancounter

24th Jun 2002, 21:17

But paulo, we all just love flying off at a tangent.....

..... now let me see, would that be the same as flying a DME arc? ;)

A and C

24th Jun 2002, 23:03

I would not think of going flying without my R M willams boots and the hip flask full of bunderburg overproof for a nightstop.

Just a few of lifes better things that a pom has found on his travels.

pilotwolf

25th Jun 2002, 00:38

Have to admit I too have worn those nice kid leather gloves since I started flying! That CA sunshine, fear of removing the R22 doors - (fear now gone and prefer no door as I bang my elbows!) and the fear of my flying ability causes me to have incredibly sweaty palms.

I also have a suit but not yet worn it... not been flying since I bagged it!

I also own a helmet but have real problems with that as not use to have a head twice it's normal size! Even at work on the occasions require a helmet I end up doing more damage to surround items and people.

BUT if I look stupid, as said above, I might be the one who is ALIVE and stupid.

PS. I don't have any bars though... near brought a pub once if that counts :D

p.savage

25th Jun 2002, 00:47

So wot exactly are PPL holders allowed to wear?

How many stripes? (If any)

:)

GoneWest

25th Jun 2002, 03:26

Allowed to wear??

As many stripes as you like/ Question should have been more like "How many stripes should a PPL want to wear??"

Going back to the guys wearing flying suits in Moths etc. - bl**dy good idea. Brings us back into the realms of suitablility for the flight. I used to wear a flying suit when I was night freight hauling - but had to wear the white shirt, tie and bars when carrying pax. Suitability for flight.

Rob_L

25th Jun 2002, 05:10

I seem to remember a letter from a lady pilot in Pilot mag a few years ago where she had hired a 152 from Doncaster Aero Club. Not wishing to damage the clubs reputation on an overseas trip she aquired a basic pilots "uniform". Sadly she was mistaken for a lavatory attendent while using the facilities at a French airport!!!!!!!!!!!!

sharpshot

25th Jun 2002, 07:48

The one thing that makes me laugh is seeing some of the real pilots with epaulettes on their raincoats :o :o

Never seen a Capt. or F/O in the cockpit with a raincoat on though:D :D

(Is this where all the Pilot Catalogue accessories end up:eek: )

Rod1

25th Jun 2002, 08:04

formationfoto
“benign environment of a C152 or PA28 cabin.”

I know of several cases where people in Spamcans ended up upside down with jammed straps in a pool of fuel and died. If you add to this that I take my Spamcan to some of the most remote airstrips I can land on, I think I will carry on with my flying suit.

distaff_beancounter

“IMHO, a flying-suit, especially with 4 gold bars, just looks a tad over the top in a C172, PA28 etc”

I agree with you about the gold bars. Most of the advantages of a flying suit are just as valid in a PA28 as any other single engine machine. In my Spamcan I sit almost on top of 42 gal of Avgas, and non of the structure was designed with modern safety an crash worthiness in mind.

This is a safety item, not a fashion statement.

Hew Jampton

25th Jun 2002, 09:30

The one thing that makes me laugh is seeing some of the real pilots with epaulettes on their raincoats
[list=1]
If that's part of the company uniform then the pilots don't have a choice
It is useful for ground staff such as despatchers, engineers and refuellers to be able to identify the captain when on the ground, especially on arrival at the aircraft.
[/list=1]

Who has control?

25th Jun 2002, 09:53

I wish to come out of the closet & declare that I too am a fully paid up member of the White Leather Gloves Club, also known as the Sweaty Palms Mob!!

Not only will they protect your fingers in case of fire, but they also make any hand signals more visible. And after a few years, as a bonus, they acquire a delicous smell of sweaty leather.

I have to confess to having a T-shirt with 'Pilot' on it, I bought it from the magazine, not to remind myself which seat to get into. I'd like to get a matching one with 'Pax' on it for Mrs WHC.

Genghis the Engineer

25th Jun 2002, 11:46

I am part of the flying suit and gloves brigade, whether I'm flying a PA28, Islander or Microlight. In the latter, I add an Irvin jacket.

The flying suit is comfortable, keeps my good clothes clean and not smelling of fuel and grease when handling the aircraft external stuff, has plenty of well placed pockets, and is flame retardant. On the front of it is a badge with my name and some wings - so if I do have an accident the rescue crew know who they've pulled out. Also when visiting airfields, it saves having to spell my oft-mispelled surname out. Safety and practicality are not pretentious.

Yes there's a badge on my shoulder which salves the ego, but it's one I earned nonetheless. I don't wear gold bars, never having been in the Royal Navy.

It is pleasing that the Irvin jacket looks so good, but it's still an eminently sensible jacket for open cockpit flying.

Thin leather gloves protect my hands from cuts on sharp bits of airframe, stop them slipping on the controls on a hot day, and if you're really desperate you can give them to the pax as something to throw up into. Personally I wear some surplus grey Lufftwaffe ones, because the RAF white gloves are too expensive for my taste and too thin for open cockpit flying.

G

Whirlybird

25th Jun 2002, 12:53

who has control,

Did you have to bring up the subject of what's written on T-shirts? There I was, thinking what a sane sensible person I was since I tend to fly in jeans and a T-shirt. But shall I confess to what my T-shirts have on them. Let's see:

1) Whirly-Girls, International Women Helicopter Pilots - with logo of obviously female helicopter with lipstick and curly eyelashes.

2) A woman's place is in the cockpit

3) Heliflight, and large colourful helicopter

4) Shropshire Aero Club, and some sort of aircraft

5) BWPA, Women in the Air 2000

6) R22 and a picture (very small and discreet, that one, unlike the others)

There may be others but I can't remember. :D

QDMQDMQDM

25th Jun 2002, 12:59

Anyone know a good place to get hold of ex-RAF Nomex flying suits? The problem seems to be that the majority of ones on the market are quite small and if you're of medium build or larger it's hard to find one to fit.

I don't fly with one at the moment and to be honest I feel a bit naked. It only makes sense to fly with the most appropriate clothing. I sit in a Super Cub with 18 gallons of avgas above me on either side.

Thanks in advance,

David

Evo7

25th Jun 2002, 13:33

Whirly, you forgot the all-important PPRuNe one :)

Genghis the Engineer

25th Jun 2002, 13:59

I can vouch for that, I've seen her in it. Very fetching it is too.

There are traders selling RAF type suits (and usually USAF and Luftwaffe) that appear at the big fly-ins. There were certainly several last weekend at Cranfield, ditto Popham in May.

Transair also do a generic one for £90, and a glider-supplies company called "Nevynn International" do a selection of versions for a bit less (01623-634437, no idea if they've got a website).

They also appear occasionally on the eBay pilot-gear page at http://listings.ebay.co.uk/aw/plistings/list/category4783/index.html

G

Whirlybird

25th Jun 2002, 14:46

Oh dear, shall I confess? I actually have THREE PPRuNe T shirts :eek: :eek: :eek: :

1) White with "Professional Pilots Rumour Network" and an old logo.

2) "Professional Pilots Rumour Network", R22 (my old name), and on the back an approach plate with various people's names at strategic points - Flaps, Velvet, 10W, etc. And TEAM MEMBER in larg letters.

3) A new official grey one.

1 and 2 were provided by Velvet at the Ash Bash way back in May 2000. I bet not a lot of you knew that.

I forgot I had these. If anyone would like 1, it's a Large size, and far too big for me, and I don't want it. I can bring it to the Gatbash or something. You too can look...er...no comment. :D
2 is rather wonderful and I'm gonna keep it, even though I don't wear it. :) I thought I didn't really like 3, even though it made me recognisable at PPRuNe fly-ins, but if Genghis thinks it's fetching...well...what can I say. ;)

Evo7

25th Jun 2002, 14:47

Genghis - I doubt there's a pilot on this site that wouldn't wear that badge of yours... :)

QDMQDMQDM

25th Jun 2002, 15:16

Thanks a lot, Genghis. If the Transair Pilot Shop site ever finsihes loading, I'll take a look there.

;)

David

SKYYACHT

25th Jun 2002, 15:46

I seem to recall instructing at a RAFVR(T) Volunteer Gliding school, and being issued with the complete "kit" comprising gloves, Grow Bag, and Flying boots. I have been grateful for the gloves on numerous occasions when hauling on a cable, and the suit when crawling under an aircraft belly to inspect the back-release. I still wear gloves when flying, whether it be in the Slingsby or a PA 28. I wear the flying suit if flying something open cockpit or ex-military such as a Chipmunk. I dont think that gold or silver bars are appropriate for single pilot ops. They are useful in a commercial environment to enable passengers or others to identify members of the crew. But each to his own I suppose. Remember too, that as far as I am aware, the flame retardant capability of Nomex is reduced severely after laundering, so it may not offer any more protection that a pair of cotton chinos. I was always told never to wear nylon or man made products, as once aflame these will burn and melt into the tissues, and to always wear cotton, which although more combustible tends not to do that. I could be wrong - the memory tends to play tricks...

Face the music

25th Jun 2002, 21:27

We sit there with our Transair catalogues or whatever, flicking through and then getting to that page thinking: "Does anyone really do this?".

The School where I instruct at a large internatioanl airport in Kent, north of the Gatwick zone, South of the London City zone, have recently imposed a new rule that all instructors are to wear epaulettes as well as the usual white shirt and tie. I think the shirt and tie are essential for professional pilots anyway and I do think these new epaulettes are a good idea, however one of my fellow Instructors (who is not the most professional person in the world by far) goes that bit further and wears *3*, yes you read that correctly *THREE* PLATINUM coloured stripes!

Why does he do this I hear you ask, well I'm afraid only he knows! But if anyone see's him around and is able to keep a straight face to ask him, let me know what he says!

I've had a few of his students come to me and ask what other qualifications he has got that I don't have- I find it very difficult keeping a straight face when I have to tell them that I have more qualifications than him!!:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Rod1

26th Jun 2002, 07:28

The traders at the PFA flyin were selling them for £15.

Rod

Who has control?

26th Jun 2002, 07:34

Whirly...........

WHERE CAN I GET A PPrune T-SHIRT????????????

Evo7

26th Jun 2002, 08:03

Have a word with InF'inRetirement (http://www.pprune.org/forums/member.php?s=&action=getinfo&userid=9266) - he will help :)

Chimbu chuckles

26th Jun 2002, 08:24

I remember years ago renting a PA28 at a school in Oz to take my mother and her friend on a local flight. My uniform for all such flights is my old faithfull(i.e. crappy 'Docksiders'), pair of shorts and whatever shirt comes to hand. If it's cold out add jeans...I do have a nice leather WW11 style jacket if it's really cold but I wear that anytime it's cold out. It has no patches and after 15 years of abuse it is looking satisfyingly 'worn'.

Two young chaps wearing ALL the paraphernalia engaged me in conversation...asking if I was learning to fly..."Nope on holidays from PNG where I fly F28s". "WOW how do you get a job like that?" I sorta thought they must be charter pilots with the ties, wings, epaulets etc but no they were students from one of those full time flying schools...on a 'mutual' PPL Navex!!!

When flying Tiger Moths I wear a 'growbag' for all the good reason mentioned. When I fly my Bonanza I wear whatever is appropriate for the weather, when I fly our company Falcon 200 I wear 4 silver bars and an ID card that says Captain Chuck, 'Chief Pilot'. I wear a tie only when wondering around International terminals(and it's a clip on:D)...I hate them a lot...one of my younger Captains wears his tie all the time...I rag him about it all the time...like "Take the F**King tie off...it's 35 deg C and humid as hell!!"

He and our resident young F/O want me to order wings for them to wear...they have been bugging me for a year and a half...I think I wont...just to bug them back:D I have kept my wings from the airlines that I have flown for and they're a nice momento...and that's about all.

Commercial Pilots who carry pax wear uniforms for two very good reasons...Passengers feel better if their pilots are wearing a 'proper' uniform (How would you feel boarding your BA flight if they entire crew was wearing Jeans, sneakers and a PPrune T shirt?) And when $hits are trumps and you have to take control of very scared pax in an evacuation situation how much luck are you going to have wearing said jeans etc? The pax NEED to see the chap with all the kit, a calm look on his face and an authoratative tone of voice saying "This way...hurry!"

Over the years I've seen guys wearing bone domes and nomex gloves in C206s, admitedly while bush flying in PNG, and two guys I know wore RAAF nomex gloves secretly while flying, both were tossers...one failed Wings Course and the other was an ex RAAF Test Pilot.

While it may be fair to say "let the PPLs dress up as they please" I think it is equally true to worry about the thought processes behind how they view themselves which then leads to the wearing of all the flash 'pilot shop' stuff.

Personally I rather risk fire than look like a prat...and while not wearing all the gucci kit I'm more motivated not to crash:D;)

Chuck.

sharpshot

26th Jun 2002, 14:52

:confused: All this talk of Nomex suits?? I used to have one for racing round Silverstone in, but you kind of expected to crash in that environment!

Whilst respecting every plane I get in.........I never contemplate the worst!

So what is safe to wear? I always used to make sure I was covered up but then I went flying with an instructor in Florida one hot & humid day and he was in shorts and I wished I had been!

So if there's a fire and you have shorts on .........aaagh!
If you're fully clothed, maybe the rescue party - if you are that lucky, will probably have to cut them off you - so I am still undecided:(

Rob_L

26th Jun 2002, 17:56

Back in the 80's one of Bond Helis engineers Terry Rowarth found himself having trouble getting airside while working in Spain.
He purchased what could be best described as an Argentinian band masters uniform and had no more trouble getting airside. The side benefit was that he used to get saluted on his way to work!!!!!!!!!!

MLS-12D

28th May 2003, 05:14

Anyone who likes dressing up in bogus uniforms to which they are not entitled will be interested in this forum (http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/180748).

Have fun!:hmm:

ratsarrse

29th May 2003, 06:21

I'm firmly in the 'let's laugh at the idiots with epaulettes in their spamcans' camp, but even while I was chuckling to myself (and feeling slightly superior) reading this thread I envisaged a nightmare scenario...

Picture the scene: you've recently acquired your shiny new PPL and you're contemplating the benefits of getting your IMC. It's getting close to Christmas. Meanwhile your nearest and dearest has 'discovered' that Transair catalogue you strategically left lying around in the hope that someone might buy you that GPS you've mentioned once or twice. Loved one starts flicking through the pages, sees the prices of the various GPS units on offer, thinks "sod that for a game of soldiers," before coming across that page...

Christmas day arrives and as well as socks you find that you also have some PPL wings and some lovely epaulettes to wear when you go flying. A rictus grin as you realise that you are actually going to be expected to wear them or risk a mortal insult to your well-meaning beloved.

I have seen the future and it's wearing four gold bars...

Keef

29th May 2003, 07:57

Thinks: I've got a set of epaulettes - very similar story. Maybe I should stitch them onto my cassock...

Must be a joke in there somewhere.

big pistons forever

29th May 2003, 09:59

The Scene. Me, then your typical low time instructor, sitting in the flying club lounge on a slow day telling lies to my fellow instructors. Suddenly one jumps up and says " get a load of THAT " and points to a very bright pink LEAR 35 which has just parked out front. It must be the MARY KAY ( A lady run home based cosmetics sales company ) corporate jet. Given that the corporate color was pink, "I wonder what the pilots have to wear" mused another. His query was answered moments later when the flight crew emerged resplendant in thick tweedy grey pants, pink shirts and oversized silver bars. At this point we all burst out laughing, untill I asked the fatefull question. "Put your hand up if you would you wear that get up if it meant you would be paid to fly a beautifull late model Lear Jet?"
There was a long silence , then slowly everyone raised their arm;)

pulse1

29th May 2003, 17:33

Keef,

There are churches near us who seem to be having similar discussions about the need to wear god-bothering clothes by priests.

I would be very disappointed if you did not have some little gold wings on your scarf. :E :D

Gerund

29th May 2003, 21:06

One of the funniest ones I've seen, to show it is isn't just restricted to PPLs:

At Kuito in Angola, a 727 co-pilot wearing a blue baseball cap with '727 Pilot' in large gold embroidery across the front!

Keef

30th May 2003, 00:02

Shucks! Sorry, P1, it's a nice Celtic cross in gold weave, with some "stone colours" to offset. Maybe I should attach a PPRuNe badge above each cross...

Don't approve of those who take services "in mufti". Popular in many places, I know. Must be my age.

MLS-12D

30th May 2003, 00:11

Well, at least that 727 co-pilot was flying a 727. About two years ago, I was consulted by a potential client who wanted to sue a light aircraft manufacturer for reasons I needn't bore you with. Anyway, he was wearing a baseball cap with "ALASKAN BUSH PILOT" embroidered upon it in huge letters. During the course of the interview, I learned that he didn't even have a pilot's license (and, I suspect, had never been within 1,000 miles of Alaska). :rolleyes:

WelshFlyer

30th May 2003, 00:36

Well, I wear a flightsuit purchased from an ex-army suplus shop. (You know the kind of flightsuit I mean, the green ones) and I fly a 150.

RAF Flightsuits are very comfortable to fly in - but I think someone dressing like an airline pilot in a 150 is a bit much!

WelshFlyer

IO540-C4D5D

30th May 2003, 22:55

Judging from the % floor area allocated to "airline" clothing in the Transair shop, I am sure they make as much out of it as a windsurf shop makes out of selling swimwear (quite a lot).

BEagle

31st May 2003, 21:19

Keef - know what you mean. Vicars should smell faintly of incense, candle smoke, parishoners' sherry, musty old hymn books and 'left over' communion wine, they should be jovial members of the community and, in my view, wear dog collars. Happy clappers in casual mufti just seem.....well, not quite right.

Back to epaulettes and rank braid - if they must be worn, they should represent some sort of management agreed structure. E.g FI(R) 1 ring, FI 2 rings, FI with IRI and Night 3 rings, Examiners 4 rings, CFI 4 rings with gold tassels...... OK, maybe not the last! But I don't really see the need at a little flying club.

A CAA examiner mate popped in once on his way home from Oxford - and the nearby air cargo folk nearly had a heart attack. Because his uniform was identical to the Chief of Customs and Excise one and they were overdue for a snap inspection!

Keef

1st Jun 2003, 00:18

Ah yes - bliss! Rivalled only by the smell of an old aeroplane.

Final 3 Greens

1st Jun 2003, 11:51

BEagle

I quite like the uniforms worn by the students at a famous institute quite near you.

My observation suggests that they start off as a traffic warden and graduate as a commander in the Swiss navy.

Still, at least it establishes an obvious hierarchy.

727 exec

2nd Jun 2003, 01:29

I'd just like to preface my comments by admitting that I did fly an exec 727 - although I've moved on to something slightly more modern (although still with three engines)...and, no - I didn't have a cap!!

I (like many in my side of the profession), will normally change as late as possible from our anonymous white shirts and into the ties/epaulettes/jackets that are required uniform items.

I was at Kidlington one day and overhead a very 'senior' Instructor comment that I'd never get a job in aviation dressed so casually...his face was a picture when he walked out to his PA28 and me to 'my' multi-million pound executive jet.

To most of us professional pilots, a uniform is something that you wear whilst at work - it certainly makes life easier when dealing with the ground staff at airports...and we cannot wait to take it off so as to slide into invisibility when the working day is done - you certainly won't get offered any booze whilst passengering in uniform (if you can find an airline that still offers alcohol to the fare paying public!!)

727070

3rd Jun 2003, 00:08

Hi,

As someone who is about to finish their PPL soon I think that there is nothing wrong with wearing stripes. The amount of time and effort that has gone into getting the licence there should be a way to "show off". I wouldnt go as far as the hat with PILOT written on it, but walking to the plane with some stripes on your sholder is a nice way to say i've done it! It may be a case of new pilot trying to increase his ego, and give me a year and ill be wearing shorts and t-shirts like the rest of you! End of the day you have earned them so why not wear them?

I do have a question about what stripes correspond to. Ie I believe that 4 stipulates that you are the captain? In which case as PIC/Captain of an aircraft (even if it is a single engine PPL putter) the pilot constitues the captain and therefore the 4 stripes? Or is it done on hours/ratings/etc?

Thanks

BEagle

3rd Jun 2003, 00:49

727070 - I quite understand your point about wishing to show the pride you will shortly have in becoming a licensed pilot. But the wearing of any uniform implies that you are the member of the organisation which issued that uniform; they in turn will have some rank structure which governs the wearing of appropriate braid on the uniform epaulettes. There is no single standard.

Whilst you would be quite at liberty to wear whatever you wish on your shoulder, it may invite ridicule which is inappropriate in a flying environment, particularly for a newcomer. So I would gently suggest that you resist the temptation to wear shoulder insignia in a flying club environment.

One thing you may wish to consider is the AOPA wings scheme which is being launched in the UK. Depending on your experience and achievements, you may wear the discrete AOPA bronze, silver, gold or platinum wings - these mark you out as a pilot who has progressed through the club flying world in a sound manner.

Mike Cross

3rd Jun 2003, 00:52

I do recall reading in P***t an article by an Australian owner of a Cessna Caravan (name escapes me but no doubt someone will tell me) who has taken it round the world.

His advice on the important things to take with you included a uniform shirt with epaulettes and bars.

It's amazing what you can get away with if you look as though you belong. Apparantly standard equipment for Oxford Streeet shoplifters includes a high-vis waistcoat.

And of course Max Boyce, the leek-bearing welsh comedian told the story of how you could get into the Arms Park without a ticket providing you were dressed correctly. On match day the referees arrived in 3 double-decker buses!

Mike

WelshFlyer

3rd Jun 2003, 00:59

I'd go with the wings, people can see that you are a pilot - you won't look ludicrous at the same time.

You could always do what i did - Go to an ex-army surplus shop and get an RAF flightsuit. They are very comfortable and have useful pockets all over them, includeing clear ones very useful for GPS, Maps, papers, etc.

WelshFlyer.

Floppy Link

3rd Jun 2003, 03:17

suits you, sir (http://www.martaviation.com)

orbackup incase I got it wrong first time (http://www.martaviation.co.uk)

need to get one for the toy (http://www.espotlight.co.uk/gbtbi) - no room in the cockpit!

FL

sedgie

3rd Jun 2003, 16:38

Hello mrcross,
The Caravan owner would be Mr Dick Smith. I talked to him only a week ago while he was flying his wife in the Caravan. I think he also owns a B206 Jetranger.:ok:

Mike Cross

3rd Jun 2003, 17:35

Thanks Sedgie, knew someone would come up trumps. What this highlights I suppose is the need to dress appropriately. Flying suit is good for open cockpit or a cold, old and oily aeroplane or for crawling round on a pre-flight (they are after all called "overalls"). Uniform is good when dealing with "security".

Incidentally I do favour the use of name badges by staff.
I well remember gliding at one of the major clubs. I knew very few people, the instructors were mostly part time volunteers so there was always a new lot on duty and you never knew who was who. All very intimidating for the newcomer and presenting a closed and cliquey face to the customer. The reverse must also be true, instructors would no doubt find it useful to be instantly able to put a name to a face.

The piece de resistance was when I was on a weekend course and we were roundly and loudly boll***ed from the peri track by one of the female members for crossing the landing area. The instructor accompanying us had to walk back and educate her that we did know what we were doing, had checked that the circuit was clear, and were keeping a continuous lookout.

Mike

down&out

4th Jun 2003, 06:26

Well the practical (from an aviation perspective) merits of wearing flying suits has been done to death here, but I'd like to move the topic on to...

The best use of a flying suit.

Here's my starter.

When I was in the UAS (Birmingham), away on camp for 2 weeks flying Bulldogs we held a party in the middle of each camp. We would, quite literally, bus in nurses for the party from the local hospital. The promise of meeting RAF pilots & free booze seemed to work a trick!

Anyhow, the best line used one evening was,
"would you like to come back to my room to see my flying suit".
All credit was due to the guy who delivered it- as it had the desired result...

Windy Militant

4th Jun 2003, 06:32

I have to admit that now I've entered the world of vintage aircraft that the gloves are a really good idea. They don't stay white long but they save a hell of a lot of wear and tear on the pinkies.

The one thing to remember is that whatever you fly don't let it go to your head as there's always some B*gger who's one up on you!

A few years ago I went to a gliding evening at the local club. At the end of the evening I was fortunate enough to get the hanger flight. After some aeros and a beat up of the adjoining (and well snarled) motorway we headed in followed by the other glider that was being used for demo flights. He made a better hand of the landing and arrived much closer to the Hanger than we did. As our aircraft was being towed to the hanger a car roared up to the other glider, where the occupants were unstrapping and an irate gentleman leapt out and demanded to know who was flying the last glider down and that he'd never seen such an irresponsible display and so on and on. The instructor told him it was all legal and above board and that he had no grounds to complain. Whereupon Mr Angry points to his uniform and annouces that as a first officer for XXXX he knew what was legal and what was not. At this point the passenger interupted and said it all looked perfectly fine to him. Oh sneered Mr angry and what qualifies you to say that! Oh nothing much came the reply just twenty years on the Concorde fleet. That stoped Mr Angry dead in the water. At least he had the decency to turn red as he stomped off to his car and drove away!;)

MLS-12D

6th Jun 2003, 03:17

The one thing to remember is that whatever you fly don't let it go to your head as there's always some B*gger who's one up on you! Isn't that the truth!

I guess the only recreational pilot/aircraft owner who can afford to lord it over everyone else is John Travolta (pretty difficult to surpass operating your own 707 (http://www.visitingphx.com/vac2n.html)!).

Mike Cross

6th Jun 2003, 07:45

Doesn't he look smart! (http://www.707sim.com/jt.html)

Mike

HON

5th Aug 2003, 04:27

Sorry, going back to the Cabair uniform, I've read his forum with instrest and am amaised at the number of people who have commented on this subject. I work for Cabair and my collegues were at the kemble show.
The uniform that we ware, is the uniform that is issued by the company. We don't ware our bars by choice, it is the uniform that Cabair have selected.
To have the P*** taken out of us in that way is rude and offensive.:(

WelshFlyer

5th Aug 2003, 06:27

of course such comments are very insulting, and I for one would not tolerate these comments if i heard someone saying them to another pilot.

People don't take the piss out of RAF uniforms do they? no, no, it's a case of "isn't he proud to wear his country's uniform" well why the hell can't it be "isn't he proud to wear his COMPANY's uniform"

and then let us remind ourselfs that such uiforms are part of our "aviation identity" and i'd be proud to wear my company's uniform (that is if I had a company:E )

well, that's my two penneth.

WelshFlyer.