Purchasing an AX2000

[chillindan]

I'm thinking of purchasing an AX2000 and, never having owned an aircraft before, I wondered what I should look out for when I go to have a look at one? Has anyone got any advice? I'm looking at the one with HKS700E 4 stroke engine ideally as I don't fancy a 2 stroke.

Also does anyone know if and where you can get spares for the HKS engine?

Many thanks,
CD

[Genghis the Engineer]

Nothing particularly wrong with the AX2000, although if you don't need it to be Type Approved, I'd look at the X'Air which is a better sorted development of the same family.

The HKS700E is tiny, gutless, and unreliable with poor spares availability. Really, the 2-stroke 582 is a much less problematic engine. On the X'Air, I'd rather have a 582 or Jabiru.

For any microlight, before you buy - pay a BMAA inspector to go over the aeroplane with you. If you're taking a quick initial look, download the BMAA Type Approval Data Sheet (or Homebuilt Aircraft Data Sheet as applicable) and permit inspection checklist and use those to go over it. Very importantly, ensure he puts a Bettsometer on the wing and gives you an honest estimate of how many years until the sails will need replacing.

Have your inspector go over the paperwork as well, as paperwork not in order can cost you a lot of aggro.

Spares for the AX3 and AX2000 (including new sails) are available from P&M aviation in Rochdale, who are successor to Pegasus / Solar Wings who manufactured the aeroplane originally. Spares for Rotax and Jabiru engines are readily available from their importers. I suspect that HKS spares could prove problematic.

G

[Heston]

Genghis's advice is good and thorough. I'd particularly endorse his recommendation to get a BMAA inspector to look at it and the paperwork.

The Xair is a good choice. But I do like the AX2000 a lot. I've owned both and have in the past used the AX for instruction.

The earlier AX3 is not as good as the AX2000 but they can be had very cheaply.

I'd also endorse what G said about the Rotax 582 two-stroke. Its a good engine and much better than the HKS for the reasons he gives. Dont listen to clubroom "experts" and their scare stories about poor reliability of two-strokes. They need to be looked after and fed properly thats all.

Its true that the HKS sips fuel compared to the 582, but for average use that really shouldn't be a problem. And yes, spares for the HKS are difficult to get these days..

Edited to add: if you look on AFORS you'll see several AX2000s with HKS engines for sale and very few with 582s. But a check on G-INFO shows that there are many more with 582s on the register than with HKSs. There's a reason for that disparity.

[DirtyProp]

The HKS700E is tiny, gutless, and unreliable with poor spares availability. Really, the 2-stroke 582 is a much less problematic engine. On the X'Air, I'd rather have a 582 or Jabiru.
Interesting.
Here in Czech Rep. the Jab doesn't have a good rep.
Over-heating issues and such.

[Genghis the Engineer]

The Jabiru has problems anywhere - in particular cooling (although it's fine on an X'Air where it's in open airflow) and occasionally incompatibility of parts as well - but it's still a far superior engine to the HKS700E !

G

[chevvron]

I've only flown AX3s with the Rotax 503, however I've flown a Shadow with the 582 and can confirm it is a nice smooth engine. The AX3 is a great 'fun' aeroplane but don't expect to go anywhere fast!
I would love to find an AX2000/582 down south to share or purchase.

[chillindan]

Thanks for all the advice, having spoken to a couple of people as well I'm also considering looking at an SSDR like the Merlin 100 or the Sherwood Kub. I like the idea of having my own aircraft so that I can use it whenever there is a weather window and I am available. At the moment, I am reliant on hiring from my club, which is fine, but invariably I am limited to 2 hour slots, as they need the aircraft to teach on. I'd like to just get in and fly somewhere, maybe stay over, maybe not. Just have a bit more freedom...

[Small Rodent Driver]

Not sure why you would want to pursue an AX2000 when for similar money there are plenty of good Rans S6,s out there. The taildragger variants are particularly cheap.

Much more capable than an AX in terms of cruise, space, comfort, ease of derigging etc etc.

Looks like a proper aeroplane too.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Because the AX is type approved for training, has a UK source of spares, a coherent flight manual, and stall characteristics that are compliant with the airworthiness standard? (Or the X'Air all but the type approval). Plus you're dealing with the BMAA, not the LAA - which in my experience is massively more user friendly if you want any mods done.


Chillindan - the running cost of a 2 seat aircraft with a Permit to Fly will be a few hundred a year more than a deregulated single seater - but for that you get airworthiness oversight and a passenger seat. Personally whilst I enjoy a bit of single seat flying occasionally, I like to take my friends flying more. Whether you're competent to look after an aircraft without independent oversight is a question worth asking yourself.

If you do fancy a deregulated single seater however - the Sherwood Kub has an excellent history and current product support. I'd also look at the Chaser or the Minimax, which by all accounts are great to fly and whilst the Minimax doesn't have a UK manufacturer, it has a really good owners community who can support you.

No idea about the Merlin 100, but it's certainly pretty.

G

[ajojets]

I'm with Small Rodent ,the AX is like flying a cartoon aircraft and as aerodynamic as a brick. The Rans is a far better aircraft, bumbles along at 80/90 mph, all spares are UK available,

[S-Works]

I loved the AX3 and the AX2000, used to fly them all the time with Flylight at Sywell who did my Microlight licence back at the dawn of time.

Lovely aircraft to fly, dog slow, freezing cold with a great view!! I can remember doing no end of trips with nothing but a map and a jerry can of fuel in the right seat!!!

Happy memories!!!

[Heston]

AX2000 when for similar money there are plenty of good Rans S6,s out there

Not so. A decent AX2000 with a 582 engine should be gettable for £5k. A Rans with a 582 for that money would need alot of work.

Hence the advice to get an inspector to look at it first - the quality of a second hand microlight (I mean the standard to which it has been maintained) can vary a lot, and this might not be obvioous to the untrained eye.

[chevvron]

I loved the AX3 and the AX2000, used to fly them all the time with Flylight at Sywell who did my Microlight licence back at the dawn of time.

Lovely aircraft to fly, dog slow, freezing cold with a great view!! I can remember doing no end of trips with nothing but a map and a jerry can of fuel in the right seat!!!

Happy memories!!!
Was that Paul Dewhurst's school?
As I said, the AX is a great 'fun' aircraft and you need to 'fly' it all the time keeping an eye on the slip indicator. It was great for flying cadets and 'demonstrating' the effects of controls; I was quite happy flying air experience in vis down to about 4,000m due to it's low speed characteristics; I would never even consider that in anything faster.

[Genghis the Engineer]

It still is Paul's school.

G

[Small Rodent Driver]

Because the AX is type approved for training, has a UK source of spares, a coherent flight manual, and stall characteristics that are compliant with the airworthiness standard? (Or the X'Air all but the type approval). Plus you're dealing with the BMAA, not the LAA - which in my experience is massively more user friendly if you want any mods done.


I don't believe the OP mentioned that he had any aspirations to train on the AX?

As for spares, Rans owners I have known have never had any issue gaining access to spares for the design.

Coherent flight manual and compliant stall characteristics? These are simple aircraft, the flight manuals for which could be accommodated on the back of a fag packet. As for stall characteristics, surely acceptance into the UK microlight category would only be granted if the the stall characteristics are compliant?

The Rans has a proper engine mount and steel structure around the important bit. The occupants.

Gets my vote.

[Monocock]

GtE is spot on re the 582.

I've owned 18 aircraft in 27 years. Two were Rotax 582, and the others were Lycomings, Conti's, Jab's and one (dismal) HKS.

The only engine that's been totally reliable* in my 3000 hours is the 582!!

* Starting and cheap to maintain.
Lyc's and Conti's have all cost me thousands to keep flying over the years - largely because they're so friggin' old, and many have been abused, requiring lapped valves, new rings, honing etc etc. When(if) a 582 gets troublesome, £3k pretty much buys a new engine for another 5 years!! And, it takes about 2 hours to fit it!!

[N707ZS]

I know where there's a nice Jabiru UL for sale in the north east of the uk!

[Small Rodent Driver]

I know where there's a nice Jabiru UL for sale in the north east of the uk!

A nice Jabiru? That's a bit like saying Belgian and celebrity in the same sentence.

[N707ZS]

Here's a few Belgian Jabiru's for you then,


Hottest Belgian Models | List of Fashion Models from Belgium (http://www.ranker.com/list/hottest-belgian-models/bikinibabehotties?format=SLIDESHOW&page=1)

[Heston]

Very nice girls I'm sure. But they aren't celebrities are they? I'm not a Jabiru fan either.

[Forfoxake]

I had an AX3/503. It was great for training and short-field work but very slow and with limited range. On balance, Rans S6 probably better and you can get a tail-dragger.


PS Celebrity Belgians (past and present) include Audrey Hepburn, Adolphe Sax, Eddy Merckx, Jean-Marc Bosman, Jean-Claude Van Damme, Tintin and the amazing Jacques Brel (also a PPL).

[Small Rodent Driver]

PS Celebrity Belgians (past and present) include Audrey Hepburn, Adolphe Sax, Eddy Merckx, Jean-Marc Bosman, Jean-Claude Van Damme, Tintin and the amazing Jacques Brel (also a PPL).

Aha. You fail to mention Captain Haddock and the Thomson Twins!

[Forfoxake]

I thought Aha were Norwegian!:)

[Genghis the Engineer]

And surely Captain Haddock is Scottish?

G

[Heston]

Audrey Hepburn was British, although born in Brussels. Tintin is fictional. The others I haven't heard of.

Belgian beer is nice though.

[Small Rodent Driver]

And surely Captain Haddock is Scottish?

You'll be telling us next that the Thompson Twins were a British band formed in Sheffield circa 1977?

[Jan Olieslagers]

As aviators we ought to have more interest in pilots than in celebrities. As for Belgian pilots, here is one of the most famous: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Olieslagers

[abgd]

And the answers to the obvious questions:
1) are you a descendant?
2) if so, do they waive your landing fees at Antwerp?

[Jan Olieslagers]

1) negative (the chap had no offspring anyway - must have been too busy flying)
2) negative too, actually they don't even allow my microlight as they are in class D airspace, landing fee or not

Though if I could manage to get landing approval, they might well waive the fee, too.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Ah, European standardisation!

You'll be glad to hear Jan, that micrilights are welcome in class D in Britain.

G

[gasax]

But remember GtE, they also have to pay for the privilege of visiting the UK.....

[Jan Olieslagers]

@GtE: :D

They seem to be in Germany, too, at least I hear of D-Mxxx flying into the less big airports like Leipzig, Kassel, Hannover, ...

Mind you, there seems to be an exception even in tiny crowded Belgium: there are directions in the AIP for flying a microlight into EBOS Oostende, though I never heard of anybody actually doing so.

surely Captain Haddock is Scottish?I don't think so. In the original (Francophone) texts he is, like Tintin, a Brussels French-speaker, and a famous forefather of his was a captain in the French Royal Navy, by the name of "Haddoque".

[Genghis the Engineer]

Interesting - in all of the anglophone film adaptations, Haddock is played with a scots accent.

I have fun occasionally trying to read Tintin in French to a niece who wants both French and simultaneous translation into English from me. The French is, err, ideosycratic, and many terms and names just don't map at-all.

G

[AnglianAV8R]

The Ax is a great little aeroplane for pottering around in, even touring if you're not in a hurry. However, getting in and out of them is an art form. I'd hate to try clambering out after an unscheduled 'arrival' on terra firma if the frame were bent. In comparison, the Rans S6 has an extremely robust steel cockpit cage and I can vouch for it, having suffered an 'arrival' in one. Spares for the Rans are no problem either.

[chillindan]

Thanks all for that great advice. I had planned to take an inspector with me when I find an aircraft that takes my fancy, and yes 2 seats is probably what I want too. I do want to do the maintenance myself, but obviously would want a competent person to check it, certainly whilst I am learning what I am doing, so maybe the SSDR will wait till I am a bit older and (hopefully) wiser :-)

[Genghis the Engineer]

I just noticed your location Dan.

The P&M factory who support the AX3 and AX2000 is in Rochdale - so there's a particularly good reason to own one. A supply of spares in your home town isn't to be sneezed at.

G

[chillindan]

That's a very good point! I hadn't thought about that. So the consensus would be an AX3/2000 with a Rotax 582 engine as the best power unit option.

Is it a big job (in terms of time/cost) to change the engine from an HKS to a Rotax 582? I presume you need different engine mounts etc.?

Just thinking if I bought a HKS engined one (As there are a few available) and then look to change the engine afterwards..

[Heston]

Changing the engine can be done but its a big job and not worth it IMHO.

Engine mounts, electrics, instruments will probably all need changing. Depending on the dimensions you may need a new fuselage keel tube too (if the 582 needs a longer one - I'm not sure about tht).

[chevvron]

The Ax is a great little aeroplane for pottering around in, even touring if you're not in a hurry. However, getting in and out of them is an art form. I'd hate to try clambering out after an unscheduled 'arrival' on terra firma if the frame were bent. In comparison, the Rans S6 has an extremely robust steel cockpit cage and I can vouch for it, having suffered an 'arrival' in one. Spares for the Rans are no problem either.
When Bill Sherlock, the original importer, took me for my first flight in the prototype AX3 (F59EE - French reg) he pointed out in the pre-takeoff brief that the structure was made out of triangles of tubing and hence very robust.
I took to it straight away; he did the first takeoff then I flew the circuit, I landed it and we taxied back and did another circuit with me doing the takeoff this time too.
My initial trepidation about microlights vanished and I was hooked!

[Small Rodent Driver]

Changing the engine can be done but its a big job and not worth it IMHO.

Engine mounts, electrics, instruments will probably all need changing. Depending on the dimensions you may need a new fuselage keel tube too (if the 582 needs a longer one - I'm not sure about tht).

Completing the above tasks will just about get you through the hoops.

You will have to negotiate the hoops of fire to get the paperwork issues resolved for a change of engine type. Not impossible but daunting.

[Genghis the Engineer]

As aviation organisations go, BMAA paperwork is one of the less painful.

I'd think that with the parts, a capable assistant, and a winch, I could probably change the engine in a weekend - but it won't be a cheap exercise when you add up all the small bits you need to change.

In my opinion - just go shopping for an AX2000 with a 582 on it already, unless the HKS engined one is a particularly nice airframe for a spectacularly low price.

Or an X'Air/582, which in my opinion is still the nicer aeroplane - albeit without a source of spares in Rochdale.

The 503 is arguably an even more robust engine than the 582 - it's just not so well supported now, and really needs an airframe as lightweight as an AX3 or Thruster TST to be viable. On an X'Air or AX2000, it's going to be gutless.

G

[chevvron]

But the 582, being water cooled, just seems an overall better engine; more powerful obviously but also much smoother and quieter.

[Small Rodent Driver]

Several years back Rotax dropped what was IMO the best engine they did for microlights. The liquid cooled 462.

Lighter than the 582. Single carb made it very economical and being liquid cooled it was quieter and more punchy than the 503. Just about the right power output for a 390 / 450kg aircraft.

Pity they didn't develop it to bear twin DCDI ignition as in the other models.

[Heston]

I see that P&M have just announced they are to close their Rochdale business and group everything at their site near Marlborough. So the OP won't have the local parts supplier advantage if he goes the AX route.

[chillindan]

So 12 months on from this thread I've just agreed the purchase of an AX-3 and now have a couple of other questions for those who kindly contributed to this thread last year:

1 - Anyone know where I can buy a set of decent outdoor covers for one? Its been hangered all its life but I haven't managed to find any hanger space in the North West yet that is reasonably priced and/or even available

2 - Anyone know of any hanger space a farm strip or something within an hours drive of Rochdale? Theres tie down space at Carr Valley which is where I'm looking at basing it but would prefer to keep it in a hanger if at all possible

Many thanks as ever,
D

[chevvron]

You lucky bugger; wish I could find a decent one down south here, I 'd love to re-acquaint myself with it. No good if you want to go somewhere but a real 'fun' STOL aeroplane.

[x933]

Vertigo Covers seem as good as any.

[Grass_Strip_Goat]

I am 4 years into ownership of an X Air 582 Wide Door which I fly off a small grass strip. I can only speak for my own experience and I am NOT an expert:

Much easier to get in/out of than an AX. Even the "Wide Door" version has a knack though.

Still available as new which means all spares can be had via X Air UK. They provide a nice, efficient and friendly service with a usually very quick turn around.

Fantastic suspension on the gear copes really well with rough strips.

582 totally reliable if looked after and cheap to run - if you don't rev it out you can cruise one up on about 12lph of Mogas & oil premix. Two up and revving it will see fuel consumption increase substantially.

Don't expect to go anywhere fast - cruise is approx. 55Kts, flying faster just sucks fuel.

Handles like a dream, lovely to fly, easy to land.

Approx 230Kg empty which gives a useful load of approx. 220Kg.

BMAA quite painless to deal with.

Farm strip fun for circa £5K.

Has made me very happy!

All a year late for this thread of course!

[Grass_Strip_Goat]

Nigel at Top Flight Sails is a good call. Very reasonable and excellent quality.

[chevvron]

582 totally reliable if looked after and cheap to run - if you don't rev it out you can cruise one up on about 12lph of Mogas & oil premix. Two up and revving it will see fuel consumption increase substantially.

Don't expect to go anywhere fast - cruise is approx. 55Kts, flying faster just sucks fuel.



Someone will probably tell you not to do the following, but I found it did wonders for fuel consumption using a 503 if at about 500ft agl, you gently back off the throttle until you see a slight drop on the rev counter, then push it open again a tiny amount.