BA A380 Taxis into Jet Bridge

[DARK MATTER]

A BA A380 looks to have taxied into the Jet bridge at Miami

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CZLfv1pWIAAqiKg.png

[Airbubba]

Looks like minor damage, more pictures here:

British'in A380'i yolcu köprüsüne çarpt? (http://www.airporthaber.com/british-airways-haberleri/britishin-a380i-yolcu-koprusune-carpti.html)

[Basil]

Let's hope they hadn't gone past the stop and the problem was mis-positioning of next door's airbridge.

[Pinkman]

... could have been a building.


..hat, coat...

[wanabee777]

It'll buff out.

[DaveReidUK]

Looks like minor damage

Though enough to ground the aircraft pending arrival of AOG spares, reportedly due out tomorrow from LHR on an An-124.

[golfyankeesierra]

XL layover for outgoing crew :cool:

BTW, outboard engine looks tilting up, is that normal on the 380? (Otherwise the layover might be XXL)

[kms901]

As SLF/Vanilla PPL, is it me or are there a lot of incidents at Miami ?

[hunterboy]

Probably explains the SIN that has appeared in Open time

[LlamaFarmer]

BTW, outboard engine looks tilting up, is that normal on the 380? (Otherwise the layover might be XXL)

Not just you, definitely looks tilted compared to inboard.

But that could be the camera perspective... outboard engines on the 380 are a fair bit higher up than the inboards due to the wing, camera being at ground level could be level below the outboard engine whilst level with the inboard

[pattern_is_full]

Also, in case you haven't noticed it - wings and wing-mounted engines/pylons have a certain amount of "flex" designed in.

Keeps them from snapping off with a little (or a lot of) turbulence.

A slow "gate-approach" speed could push the engine back a foot or so and twist the wing slightly without permanently deforming/damaging anything...

BUT - this could indeed be worse than that. Can't tell from the picture.

EDIT - another BUT: the A380 wing-rib attachment-feet cracking problem may mean this aircraft deserves "special attention" to check for internal damage.

[RatherBeFlying]

Looks like bridge belongs to adjacent gate. The bridge the A380 was docking to blocks the cockpit view of the adjacent bridge. Would the marshaller have been able to observe the adjacent bridge?

[newt]

Oops! But it's on the Captains side!:{:{

[pattern_is_full]

As SLF/Vanilla PPL, is it me or are there a lot of incidents at Miami ?

Mmm - dunno. Accidents 1950-2015 - 59 at/near MIA, 58 at/near JFK. Not really out of line.

per: Aviation Safety Network > (http://aviation-safety.net/index.php)

Travel + Leisure magazine (if you care for their opinion) ranks MIA as 6th most "dangerous" in the US based on incidents, after (1-5) O'Hare, Cleveland, LAX, SFO, and Honolulu.

MIA doesn't make Forbe's worst 10 for ground events (fatal TO/LDG accidents, incursions, etc.) While North Las Vegas does.

But who knows if those were corrected for traffic volume.

[LlamaFarmer]

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/CZIoTBAUkAAPgm7.jpg

Another angle

[ElitePilot]

No way that second bridge should be positioned left and back not extended and straight.
The yellow rectangle box in front of the 2 men walking towards the camera would be a reasonable place for the wheels for the second bridge.

[WhatsaLizad?]

"Looks like minor damage, more pictures here:"






Airbubba,


It's parked on the ramp just west of E concourse. It was illuminated with lights and associated ground activity. Even though we were a few hundred yards away, the crumpled leading edge of the cowl was plainly visible at the impact point.


My first impression was, "That's more than a 'ding', and it isn't going to buff out".




Scratching my head at what happened. I also wonder what the SOP is for the A380. Lufthansa and AF have been operating them in MIA for awhile. I don't know about inbound, but LH has a follow me vehicle escorting it out to Runway 09. I've also never seen LH or AF land on anything other than RW 09.
Both times I have seen BA landing recently at night in MIA, they've landed on RW 08R, which is also a longer taxi to their gates. On Monday night the BA arrival was waiting on Y taxiway short of P for it's "Follow Me" escort. A somewhat humorous yet pathetic exchange occurred on due to the "Follow Me" truck being lost. I don't know when the escort responsibility ends.

[cappt]

This will require major inspections on the entire wing structure. The engine is pushed up and back, not good.

[White Knight]

It may have been on the Captain's side newt, but I can assure you that the wingtip cannot be seen for clearance out of the window... Nor does the tail camera show us all of the outboard wing!

[Buter]

@Mr.Lizard

09/27 is the preferred runway for 380 ops at MIA. Why BA aircraft were landing on 08R is confusing to me as well, since the option for 09 is always given, if available. There is the possibility that the ILS 08R was preferred by the operating crew instead of the RNAV 09.

MIA requires the follow me for all 380's. If you operate out of MIA daily, it's probably no big deal to you, but to infrequent visitors the airfield is just a sea of green and blue lights at night. I'm not sure what pathetic exchange you heard, but I'd be much happier being called pathetic than trying to explain why I'd let the big, ugly bastard sink into the concrete on an unapproved taxiway; the paperwork tends to eat into valuable drinking time.

This is all irrelevant, of course, because the incident happened when the airplane was (I hope) lined up on the lead in line and following the stand guidance. I don't wish to defend or blame since both the airport staff and the pilots involved are friends and Colleagues, but this looks like the upper deck jetty was left in the wrong place.

I'm sure it won't be too long before someone with actual facts chimes in.

Cheers

Buter

[LlamaFarmer]

I don't know when the escort responsibility ends.

Presumably before this incident.

I have no idea of MIA or A380 ops, but would imagine there is a handover of responsibility from escort vehicle to marshaller (if indeed there is one, which for an aircraft so big I would expect)


Does anyone know if the 787/A350 have cameras covering full view of the aircraft?

[golfyankeesierra]

Why BA aircraft were landing on 08R is confusing to me as well
Both times I have seen BA landing recently at night in MIA, they've landed on RW 08R, which is also a longer taxi to their gates

Any (certification)issues with RNAV/GPS app on the big bus at BA?

I don't consider our confreres at BA such sissies that they prefer an ILS over an RNAV while taxi time is longer.. :}

[OntimeexceptACARS]

Might be different in the UK for responsibilities. But an A380 taxiing onto stand would have loaders nearby the nosewheel awaiting chocking when the aircraft stops, with access to a stop button on the stand guidance stanchion, if fitted. There may be wing walkers guiding the aircraft onto stand (fail).

Have a look at the first picture again. Looks like there's an airbridge closer to the aircraft than the one that's hit the wing. I wonder if they were planning to use two, as it makes sense to with an A380, one for each deck, if the airport is so equipped. In such a case there may have been ground crew moving the (wing) bridge when it hit. Primary responsibility is with that airbridge driver, in those circumstances. And if so, its not tea and biscuits for ground crew. Its foxtrot oscar.

[Volume]

what happened to the great job of the wing walker ?
Ah, I know. Cost saving :ugh:

This could probably never happen in Japan, plenty of guys with harthats, high visibility vest and starwars-style lighted sticks at every gate where a plane taxies in.
They even bow if the ckocks are on...

[Hotel Mode]

There is a pair of wing walkers for 380 ops at MIA.

[RAT 5]

In the world of 'proactive' action would it not be a wise SOP that any stand planned for an incoming A380 was given the all clear by a ground marshaller moments before the a/c arrived at the stand?

[SeenItAll]

While the airbridge may have been in the wrong place, it was not just slightly infringing on the space through which the plane needed to pass -- it was likely at least 30 feet closer to the plane than it should have been. After all, it didn't hit the wingtip, it hit the outboard engine. Further, it would have been passing right by the Captain's LHS window before the collision occurred.

Wouldn't one expect the Captain to have noticed that this obstruction was way closer to the airplane than it should have been? There are many times that I have been on a plane that stopped short of the gate because the Captain reported that something was blocking the clearway. It seems to me that this ding only required two holes in the swiss cheese -- and unfortunately in addition to the marshallers, the Captain may have been one of them. But until we read the official report, nothing is certain.

[Hogger60]

787-8/9 has no camera for external views, but the -10 may well have one when it comes out in 2018.

[RAT 5]

787-8/9 has no camera for external views, but the -10 may well have one when it comes out in 2018.

Mk.1 eyeball comes to mind. Cameras are great for things behind you or out of vision. Eyes are great from things in front of you. Slightly sarcastic; no knicker twisting, please.

Was said A380 truing left or right onto stand? If left then infringing airbridge more in eye-line than right turn. But there are 2 pairs of eyes up there, n'est ce pas?

[TowerDog]

. But there are 2 pairs of eyes up there, n'est ce pas?

Probably 3 pair of eyeballs if the flight is more than 8 hrs.

Not sure about the E-terminal in MIA, but @ the D-terminal there is bright yellow boundary lines to protect aircraft and equipment at the parking stands: If anything is inside the lines, one has to stop immediately. Usually baggage carts, ground-huffers, jet-bridges and sometimes personnel are inside the lines and easy to spot, then stop. It is a pretty good system expect at night in the rain when you can't see them yellow lines. :uhoh:

[FIRESYSOK]

To whoever suggested the captain is half to blame.....you've clearly never parked an airliner.

One cannot look out the side window AND watch the marshaller at the same time. If you take your eye of him, you're going to get yourself into trouble.

You can have a good idea before pulling onto stand if anything is amiss, but the ultimate responsibility is with the marshaling team once under their charge.

[IcePack]

Firesysok, yep you are right but the Captain still carries the can. That is what he is paid for, even if it is not really his fault.

[TowerDog]

but the ultimate responsibility is with the marshaling team once under their charge..

At many gates in MIA the Marshaling team has been sent packing and instead we have machines that do their job: It senses aircraft position, closure rate etc, tells you to turn left or right and to stop. It has to be manually programmed for each aircraft type and that is usually done in the Ramp-Tower.

Not sure what BA has on the E-terminal for the A-380s.

[FIRESYSOK]

Seems a bit old fashioned. We've left that culture well behind at US air carriers. I'd file the report and most likely never hear another word. After all, crew don't show up for work intending to have this happen. That's why we've moved on from this 'tea with no biscuits' drama. You will see it in the military, but that's not the airlines anymore- and for good reason.

[ExSp33db1rd]

I nearly drove an engine into an Airbridge at a well know Indian airport ( the now changed name suppressed to prevent the innocent ) where self-parking by the pilot was the procedure, and the first person to enter the flightdeck was a senior ground crew member who looked at the self-marshalling lights and said - with accompanying wobbling of the head - " the lights are on, it wasn't our fault "

I never said it was your fault, I replied, but you had a crew of men watching, and not one even tried to intervene to stop me, a simple crossed arms above the head from anyone would have been sufficient for me to stop and at least ask why, they may not be qualified marshallers but did no-one have enough commonsense to even cry "stop" ? Were you all going to stand and watch me drive into the bridge regardless ? Such fun.

[Three Thousand Rule]

As a non-professional pilot, who has been on the A380 quite a lot as a pax, I find the tail mounted camera view amazing when taxiing, as the aircraft is just so physically huge.

No doubt it will all come out in the wash, but presumably there is an accident chain in place here, not a single point of failure.

[WhatsaLizad?]

"MIA requires the follow me for all 380's. If you operate out of MIA daily, it's probably no big deal to you, but to infrequent visitors the airfield is just a sea of green and blue lights at night. I'm not sure what pathetic exchange you heard, but I'd be much happier being called pathetic than trying to explain why I'd let the big, ugly bastard sink into the concrete on an unapproved taxiway; the paperwork tends to eat into valuable drinking time."


Buter,


Sorry about my poor writing skills (public colonial schools you know;) )


The "pathetic" radio exchange was between the MIA Ground Controller and the clueless "Follow Me" vehicle. The BA crew was professional and silent during the wait for their escort.


The MIA ground control operation has sunk to a level I've not seen in a long time.

[NukeHunt]

Word on the street says that indeed the jet bridge was in the incorrect position for an A380 arrival.

Thats one of the problems with multi-use stands, designed for 2 narrow bodies or 1 wide body, if the stand is allocated late for example, or a late change, sometimes it doesn't give the ground crew enough time to get to stand and re-config the jet bridges into the correct position before the aircraft is 1/2 way into the stand.

Word of advice, if the lights are not turned on DO NOT cross the double white lines into stand, if you're blocking a taxiway, so be it, but the ground crew are then unable to properly check/re-config the stand, also some of the new guidance lights won't work as they cannot run their self test if the aircraft is already too close.

[framer]

To whoever suggested the captain is half to blame.....you've clearly never parked an airliner.

That's exactly what I thought. What was the time of day and the weather like?

[exeng]

One cannot look out the side window AND watch the marshaller at the same time. If you take your eye of him, you're going to get yourself into trouble.


Actually you can do this - and at times must. If you do not trust the marshaller then it is incumbent upon you to ensure that the area you are taxiing into is clear of objects.

Difficult I except, but necessary.

When turning towards the gate all crewmembers on the flight deck should ensure the gate area is clear. If in doubt stop and evaluate the situation.

In any event proceed with caution. If in any doubt stop and ask for wing walkers.

By the way my experience in Africa ops over many years has taught me to trust nobody. No disrespect intended for our African cousins as generally, whilst full of good intentions, they have never been given any training.

By the way, despite my age, I was capable of following marshalling instructions whilst simultaneously checking for objects outside the aircraft. Impossible on a 380 wing I accept. That why it was imperative to check the gate was clear before entry perhaps??

Perhaps the jetty they collided with was repositioned during their taxi in to the gate?

All will be revealed in due course.


Kind regards
Exeng

[ACMS]

The Engine doesn't look bent to me, remember that the inboard and outboard engines are not parallel to each other in the first place. Take a look at photos of the A380 and the outboards appear to be angled up a bit anyway?

I hardly think an Engine mount designed to handle the thrust and weight of that Engine would be bent. The cowling would crush first anyway, slowing the impact and the Aircraft would have stopped quickly.

Engine change is all would be my bet.

[wiggy]

Thats one of the problems with multi-use stands, designed for 2 narrow bodies or 1 wide body, if the stand is allocated late for example, or a late change, sometimes it doesn't give the ground crew enough time to get to stand and re-config the jet bridges into the correct position before the aircraft is 1/2 way into the stand.

Agreed, seen that sort of foul up, and got away with it, just.

Years back, in North America, on gate where the aircraft type was not displayed on the stand guidance for all to see "we" nearly clunked a 744 parking on a gate that was seemingly clear of all obstacles. What we didn't know was the jetty configured for a DC-10.

Fortunately the station manager standing on the tarmac spotted the jetty and our no. 2 engine were about to become coincident just in time halt proceedings.

I learnt about jettys from that...............

[cooperplace]

that'll be expensive just with loss of revenue.

[Anilv]

If the airplane is under marshaller's instruction then the captain is not really responsible is he?

Same would apply for the VDGS lights?

Anil

[3Greens]

I understand it was under tow when it hit the jetty?

[FullWings]

I understand it was under tow when it hit the jetty?
That’s what I’ve heard, although it is an unconfirmed rumour. It’s quite possible as I’ve needed to be towed in at MIA in a 777 on occasion, depending on stand allocation.

[Evanelpus]

Is the Antonov 124 due at Heathrow got something to do with this incident? I did hear it was for an A380 engine but you know what rumours are like!!

[Basil]

Recollect not being happy with wingtip clearance when taxying in at Baku.
ATC started shouting to move, follow me was driving in circles to show the stupid pilot how to do it and our own station manager, whom I'd made the mistake of permitting to sit in the flight deck, was loudly telling us that it was OK to proceed.
So, in the face of all this what did we do? NOTHING - until the FO and I were sure in OUR minds that it was safe to go.

[DaveReidUK]

Is the Antonov 124 due at Heathrow got something to do with this incident? I did hear it was for an A380 engine but you know what rumours are like!!

See post #6 from 2 days ago. Due this evening.

http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/573450-ba-a380-taxis-into-jet-bridge.html#post9243875

[overstress]

The OP shaped this thread by using the word 'taxies'. A photo shows the engine touching a jetty. How it got there is not yet in the public domain, but there is more than one way an aircraft can be moved around an airport! :rolleyes:

[PDR1]

How it got there is not yet in the public domain, but there is more than one way an aircraft can be moved around an airport!

Indeed, and some don't even require human intervention:

http://media2.abc15.com/photo/2015/08/12/KNXV%20Chandler%20Airport%20storm%20damage2_1439386836931_22 636132_ver1.0_900_675.jpg

:rolleyes:

PDR

[draglift]

Seenitall


You wrote "While the airbridge may have been in the wrong place, it was not just slightly infringing on the space through which the plane needed to pass -- it was likely at least 30 feet closer to the plane than it should have been. After all, it didn't hit the wingtip, it hit the outboard engine. Further, it would have been passing right by the Captain's LHS window before the collision occurred.

Wouldn't one expect the Captain to have noticed that this obstruction was way closer to the airplane than it should have been? There are many times that I have been on a plane that stopped short of the gate because the Captain reported that something was blocking the clearway. It seems to me that this ding only required two holes in the swiss cheese -- and unfortunately in addition to the marshallers, the Captain may have been one of them. But until we read the official report, nothing is certain. "
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You are wrong in expecting the area in front of a 260 foot wingspan airliner to have no items in front of it. For instance the pier that comes to the front left door on arrival is normally well within the wingspan. So often too is the pier that comes to the 2nd door. The thing is the aircraft normally stops before the wing comes into contact with any of the many items in front of it, such as steps, ground vehicles, baggage vehicles. The pier that this aircraft hit may well have been the normal lateral distance from the flight deck. The problem is that the pier was extended and was thus further back than it should have been. The times when you have been on a plane which has stopped before parking it is likely there were ground markings painted for that type of aircraft and there were items infringing it. This is quite common. Rather than thinking the Captain is the weak link the factors are more likely to be the jetty being left out of position, wing man not giving signals, possibly the aircraft being towed, ground markings not visible or not appropriate for A380.

[RAT 5]

I would expect the insurance company to sort out just who was to carry the can and pay out. It will be substantial. I doubt this will be a 'knock for knock' settlement.
Thankfully BA pilots have union behind them and they are not dubiously self-employed.

[Evanelpus]

See post #6 from 2 days ago. Due this evening.

Cheers Dave, that'll teach me and here I was thinking I'd read the whole thread.

Hat, coat and OFF! :ugh:

[Suzeman]

Every airport should have a SOP to ensure that a stand is clear of equipment (including safe parking of airbridges) and clear of FOD prior to an aircraft arriving as part of their Safety Management System (SMS). This procedure should be laid down in the Aerodrome Manual with the people responsible outlined and be subject to regular audit both by the airport company and the regulator including records of training and competency checks. The procedures should outline what happens if the stand is not safe.

Dependent upon who does what at any airport, the person responsible for checking that the stand is safe could be the marshaller, follow me driver, supervisor of the loading team etc etc. Not sure what the set up is at MIA

Insurance companies are very interested in whether an airport has an effective SMS - if they have, premiums are liable to be reduced. I'm sure that the insurance company(s) involved in this will be looking into the Airport SMS as part of this incident....

PS AN-124 departed LHR for MIA (VDA 1902/RA82044) at 2254z 22/01/16

[NSEU]

I'm surprised that the guidance lights will even switch on with the bridges out of place. The ones at my local airport won't (basically idiot proof).

imho, I don't see how the pilot can be expected to be looking at the wings in the final stages of docking. However, he/she probably should be looking for 3 green lights for this aircraft type (one on each aerobridge) prior to getting too close.

Some of the guidance systems don't have the best design. Whilst all gates at my local airport all have emergency stop buttons, not all the gates have stop buttons located where you can see all parts of the aircraft.

[White Knight]

Unlike Australia NSEU very few places have the red/green light system on the jetbridges! In fact, I can't think of anywhere else... And I fly the 380 pretty much around the world!

And interestingly on my last flight into BNE the lights were green on 75 but there was a highlift inside the clear zone!!!! So that doesn't always work as planned either...

[Blade Master]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ble-3TeCQAAp4vC.jpg:large

Similar incident claimed to be during 2014 in Sydney, with plane out of service for 48 hours. Picture from Twitter.

[BigGeordie]

I believe the lights only tell you the airbridges are in the right place- they don't tell you what else might be in the way.

They are a good system but are far from worldwide. Apart from Australia I think Heathrow has them but I can't think of anywhere else. No dobut they will now be installed in many more places. Better late than never.

[9gmax]

At Brussels Zaventem there is a GREEN light illuminated ON THE AIRBRIDGE when it is fully (and correctly) retracted in standby position....
Additionaly the aircraft DOCKING system will NOT illuminate and guide the aircraft if the airbridge is (even slightly) out of standby position...
Retracting the airbridge has an 'automatic' function (simple pushbutton) which will take it to a preset/safe retraction position (lateral and height position) - not using this function will result in a 'non-illumination' of the docking system on the next arrival....
just my 2cts....

[KelvinD]

It seems most (all?) of the posts on this topic revolve around an aircraft contacting the airbridge which was in the wrong place during the final few yards of the taxi.
How about considering that perhaps everything was in order, airbridges clear etc and then an over-enthusiastic airbridge driver began moving the airbridge into position prematurely, ie before the aircraft had come to its final position?

[9gmax]

@KelvinD

Might be something to consider, yes....

however, speaking again for Brussels only, the airbridges can NOT be moved (power removed from bogeys by proxi-switch) until the aircraft has reached it's pre-positioned parking position and thus the aircraft guidance system has switched OFF....

But again, do not know how other airports work....

[Max Angle]

To whoever suggested the captain is half to blame.....you've clearly never parked an airliner. Well I have been parking airliners from the left seat for 20 years and if my aircraft hit a stationary object I would most certainly consider it to be my fault as I am quite sure the unfortunate skipper of this 380 does, he has my total sympathy and I hope its not me next time.

[Chu Chu]

I guess those interlocks with the airbridge raise the possibility that staff will start relying them and then a microswitch will fail . . . Presumably that's thought of and provided for, but it still seems like a possible failure mode.

[draglift]

I have a poor man's AGNIS for parking my car in the garage. I stop when the dangling ping pong ball touches the screen. Unfortunately my wife had got a tool out of my toolbox and left the toolbox jutting out slightly from a side shelf and it scraped the car when I drove it in at night. You can imagine the discussion on whose fault it was....:)

[RAT 5]

I guess those interlocks with the airbridge raise the possibility that staff will start relying them and then a microswitch will fail . . . Presumably that's thought of and provided for, but it still seems like a possible failure mode.

OMG. The debate of too much automation dependancy over manual skills has now come down to earth and transferred to ground staff.

You can imagine the discussion on whose fault it was....

It might have gone along the lines of "it was yours." "no it wasn't." "yes it was." "no it wasn't." etc. etc. etc. Bit of a ping pong conversation really. I'll leave you to decide who served first.

[Cough]

The thought below is generic and not one dedicated to this incident.

How about this - ALL airbridges could be modified to have a 'parking sensor' fitted to them - When activated it changes AGNIS to STOP, but if AGNIS isn't fitted, just gets a STOP sign flashing along with some sort of siren (when marshaller used...Siren to alert the marshaller).

Just a thought anyhow!

[Tinribs]

BMI had a slightly similar incident at Heathrow about twelve years ago when a 737 500 parked on a spot not yet modified for that variant. The engine "rested" on a walkway barrier requiring a temporary fix and then cowling replacement at the next hangar visit.
This case was of course simpler in that the 737 500 engine is under your armpit and distance is easily judged but of course when parking you are looking at the stand guidance system not the obstructions which you "know" are clear.
Parking at night there would be a lot of glare from vehicles and stand lights coupled with a difficult judgement call as the wingtip is so hard to see
The BMI captain was awarded time with a training captain to check his parking technique

[JW411]

He's not flying A380s with BA now is he?

I'll get my hat and coat.

[Pinkman]

It seems most (all?) of the posts on this topic revolve around an aircraft contacting the airbridge which was in the wrong place during the final few yards of the taxi.
How about considering that perhaps everything was in order, airbridges clear etc and then an over-enthusiastic airbridge driver began moving the airbridge into position prematurely, ie before the aircraft had come to its final position?

There's any number of possible scenarios. There was the classic where a certain Middle Eastern airline was taxiing to the stand equipped with (I think) AGNIS/PAPA and the PF looked away / was distracted when the moving indicator on the PAPA was approaching the stop point but was slowing to a stop. While he was otherwise engaged the aircraft actually did stop, but past the stop point. He looked back up, and noticing the gap between the marker for the aircraft (memory fails me - I think it was a 777) gave it some welly to line it up, assuming he hadn't gone far enough whereas in reality he had gone through the stop point. Did quite a bit of damage as I recall.

[Aerostar6]

Sorry to put a pin in the balloon, but it appears the aircraft was under tow.........

[Paolo]

the said a/c looking rather sad parked on a remote stand at MIA as we taxied in today....

[parabellum]

"I would expect the insurance company to sort out just who was to carry the can and pay out. It will be substantial. I doubt this will be a 'knock for knock' settlement."


The insurers of both BA and Miami airport, (and the ground handling team on the tug!) will be taking a keen interest in this incident but each will have to bear a substantial 'excess' or 'deductible' on their respective policies as standard practice and it is quite possible the cost of this incident will fall within the deductible, it will come down to whose fault it was and that is when the lawyers take over!


I always found the old parking system at the international terminal in Sydney was difficult, as one had to look both forwards and sideways, fortunately it was changed.

[southern duel]

Couple of things here.
1. If the aircraft was being towed it is the tug crew's responsibility when parking on stand.

2. If the aircraft was live and being taxied by the crew they would rely on the VDGS to safely park and just by the VDGS being on and giving the cforrect parking details indicates to the crew that the stand is clear of any obstructions and a FOD check has been done.

3. At airports where some stands are used in different configurations. It is normally the responsibility of the dispatcher to get there early enough to re position the airbridge for the aircraft type arriving on stand and of course do a FOD check.

4. Airbridge maintenance requires to be carried out and usually the airbridge has to be extended to complete this. At busy airports you cannot close the stand for days on end becuae of the impact to the operationso the stand is restricted. For example an A380 stand could still be used for B777 etc which can safely park either with a marshaller or VDGS.

In view of the above I reckon the dispatcher has not arrived to reposition the airbridge ready for the towed A380 and then the tug crew have not kept an eye on the wing tips when parking ( standard practice and should not assume anything). Basically a catalog of errors.

[Rwy in Sight]

Since insurance has been mentioned in posts above, I am wondering what the impact on BA's premium would be after the ground incidents in Johannesburg, Las Vegas and now Miami. I am not dispute their safety culture and I would fly them without a second's hesitation (OK I have a star alliance card so it gets on the way of choosing a carrier) but it is worth having a short discussion.

[Hotel Mode]

It wasn't under tow. Not sure where that came from.

[DaveReidUK]

Sorry to put a pin in the balloon, but it appears the aircraft was under tow.........

It wasn't under tow. Not sure where that came from.

Glad we've got that cleared up, then. :O

The towing scenario does seems a tad unlikely, given that the BA209/208 scheduled turnround at MIA is only 2:15.

Having said that, I don't recallseeing a single tweet or Facebook post from any of the passengers who were on board, assuming it hit the airbridge as it taxied onto the stand.

[3db]

They all fell over while looking in the overhead before the park brake was set. Now in hospital consulting the legal mob for trauma/distress etc:)

[ATIS]

Could've been a park and tow, like they do at other US airports. Never been to MIA.

Pilots stop short of the stand by a few feet, and then are towed to the final position as some parking stands have a very tight fit.

[Airclues]

I don't recallseeing a single tweet or Facebook post from any of the passengers who were on board

There is one on the BA Exec section of flyertalk by 'MichelleUK1' at 12.18pm on Jan 20 (post number 30).

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/british-airways-executive-club/1740382-ba-a380-hits-jet-bridge-mia-2.html

[ExSp33db1rd]

I recall MIA having the simplest pilot self parking system imagineable, just a large mirror in front of the aircraft, so that one could see the guiding line for the nosewheel and the cross line for stopping, no other human intervention was necessary, definitely D.i.Y. none of the "improved" methods whereby one had to intepret lights and/or keep looking sideways to guess when one was at the correct stopping point - which led me to almost drive an engine into a passenger boarding bridge one day. Didn't, but it was close.

KISS

[overstress]

The towing scenario does seems a tad unlikely, given that the BA209/208 scheduled turnround at MIA is only 2:15.


What has that got to do with it? Many stands around the world are tow-on only for larger aircraft as they are restricted in width. I can think of several BA examples where tow-ons and 2-hr turnrounds go together.

[jethro15]

British Airways A380 G-XLEA Returns from Miami. | The BA Source (http://www.thebasource.com/british-airways-a380-g-xlea-returns-from-miami/)

[Hotel Mode]

What has that got to do with it? Many stands around the world are tow-on only for larger aircraft as they are restricted in width. I can think of several BA examples where tow-ons and 2-hr turnrounds go together.

Possibly the fact that this isn't a tow on stand, and it wasn't under tow?

[GustyOrange]

I was due to travel back to LHR on the A380 in question.

I was in the lounge and decided to come down to board roughly 50 minutes prior to departure. When I got to the gate I was greeted by an empty gate and another pax informing me that the flight was cancelled. I then went right up to the gate and the Captain/FO was explaining that there was some system in place for taxiing into the gate and that it had clearly failed. These weren't his exact words - I'd had a couple of glasses of wine and was pretty tired too.

There was absolutely no mention of the aircraft being towed to the gate and it was implied that the blame did not lie with the crew operating the flight.

Other than that the BA staff, including the flight crew put in a great effort (including the Captain/FO handing out bottles of water and apologising there was nothing stronger) to organise hotels and transport for c500 passengers.

I can't complain as I got another day in the Florida sunshine and an upgrade from W to J on AA on the flight home the next day.

[Suzeman]

British Airways A380 G-XLEA Returns from Miami. | The BA Source (http://www.thebasource.com/british-airways-a380-g-xlea-returns-from-miami/)

Due at LHR c1315Z 25/01/16

[wanabee777]

Hell, QR flew all the way from Miami to Doha with the lower empennage smashed up.

Surely, BA could have made it to LHR with just a couple of dents in an engine cowling. A little speed tape will fix most anything.:)

[slast]

thread creep maybe, but in the 70s operating into Bucharest under Ceaucescu communist rule, things were pretty basic and life not very pleasant. We were just boarding pax (bussed out to stairs) when the aircraft - a DH Groundgripper - lurched briefly side to side with a pronounced clunk audible.

I went to the fwd door in time to see a forklift truck disappearing round the corner of a building, towing a baggage trolley. Passengers said it had run into us. The trailing edge of the port inboard flap by the hold door had a V-shaped dent about a foot wide by 8 inches deep. The skin was all squeezed up into ridges about 4 ins high.

As we didn't have local staff we carried an additional ground engineer on these flights. We ran the flaps out to see if there was damage to the mechanism and the Eng and I went to try to talk to LHR engineering and ops by phone (not easy in those days). Fortunately the F/O kept an eye on things and stopped another pair of loaders trying to whack it all back flat with a pair of sledgehammers. We also by coincidence had a passenger who was a PanAm structures engineer who volunteered to help us out.

In the end we borrowed a hacksaw and cut out the damaged bit, secured the loose skin edges with some cardboard some and nuts and bolts from the local agent's car and speed-taped it over, with phone OK from London to fly back at Captain's discretion.

All the pax had been watching this Heath Robinson repair work with great interest. I offered them the choice of flying back with us or staying the night in Bucharest for a replacement aircraft could get there. No takers for that so they all flew back happily in our patched up aircraft. Never heard anything more about it. Good stuff, that speed tape.

[lotus1]

An124 is due back at 1800 this evening at Heathrow with the damaged evening at the moment over the Atlantic plodding along should be a sight

[gcal]

There used to be a gate at BHX that had two sets of positioning lights. It was a sort of 'local knowledge' situation and the BA 767 that often used the stand never had a problem.
Along comes an AA 767 not aware of the local knowledge and only the quick thinking of an employee on the jetway who bashed the stop button avoided a similar collision.
It's the same old same old; if there is some system which can go wrong or be misunderstood it probably will be eventually.

[Tinribs]

No not flying for BA, he became v angry and retired from BMI at first opportunity. Last seen in a take away near EMA threatened me with violence because he thought, wrongly, I was talking about him to a mate.

People get v bitter if convinced they have been unfairly treated. Most of us thought he had been unsharp with mitigating circumstances and the extra training awarded was the minimum the company could do

The Queens flying club is not perfect but one issue they got right over the years is a method of informing those nudging the periphery of the system that they need to rethink. I benefited from it several times.

Civil aviation would benefit from such a system, IMHO

[Aluminium shuffler]

ExSp33dB1rd, I couldn't agree more. Stand 2 at LGW used to have a similar convex mirror so you could see your nose wheel and the paint lines. No need for complex calibrations, expensive electronics, a ground crew to switch it to the right aircraft settings, no waiting around for missing said ground crew, power systems and so on. But it wouldn't be aviation if it wasn't made over-complex and over-expensive... Combine convex mirrors with simple paint markings that all ground equipment must be clear of (including air bridges) that pilots can see easily (poles with flags at snow prone airports), and you're done.

[NSEU]

No need for complex calibrations, expensive electronics, a ground crew to switch it to the right aircraft settings, no waiting around for missing said ground crew, power systems and so on.

You guys obviously haven't seen the hands-full of "shrapnel" that some of the more dedicated arrival crews pick up from the tarmac prior to your arrival. It's a brave man/woman who taxis to the gate without proper clearance from ground staff. On one sweep, I picked up enough metal items (bolts, springs, large ball bearings, etc) to spell the word "LOTS". There were also chunks of crumbling tarmac which also wouldn't do the core of your engine a lot of good. Fortunately, most of the metal items are from cargo trolleys (not from aircraft).

[grimmrad]

Why do they not equip the multi-multi million dollar crafts (ca $375,000,000.00) with cameras that cost what - maybe $100 for being airworthy and additional wires, some ports... Its beyond me. My car has 5 cameras on board and shows me the entire car surrounding except for the front where I have radar and can look out. But the car costs ~7000-times less...

[OldBristolFreighter]

Of the wonders of modern science (other than aircraft with no propellers) the small size of a decent camera is now amazing. Unfortunately they still need a readable size screen(s) somewhere useful if you're going to monitor them. The options would be at least 1 screen with a single camera image, or a changing image as you select desired camera (more knobs and buttons), or a set of screens to help to fill all those empty spaces up front. I wouldn't have thought any such options practical. Wait! Bring back the fight engineer!


However, as with your car, the insurance companies may offer a kick-back in the way of lower premiums. In an incident like this it is just possible clear evidence of who could be liable would save a lot of expensive squabbling.

[LlamaFarmer]

On most modern airliners you've got ample screens to display on. When taxiing you surely don't both need PFD and Nav and all engine/systems displays.

You could even have a button that just switches one half of the screen onto cameras when turning into a stand.

Where is it displayed on the 380?

[NSEU]

Where is it displayed on the 380?

On the flight displays

e.g. http://www.airlinereporter.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/IMG_5373.jpg

[Hotel Mode]

On most modern airliners you've got ample screens to display on. When taxiing you surely don't both need PFD and Nav and all engine/systems displays.

You could even have a button that just switches one half of the screen onto cameras when turning into a stand.

Where is it displayed on the 380?

On the PFD. Only it doesn't show wingtip or outboard engines.

I'm not sure taxiing onto stand with heads in is that wise anyway.

[Koan]

With parking systems with their various idiosyncrasies and marshalers seemingly all with different tempo of hands coming together in the X for final spotting it does not matter how many outside cameras would be fitted. The last
20 metres or so there is nothing more one can do but focus straight ahead. .

In the past I cant tell you how many times I held off the stand waiting for two wingwalkers and marshaler, with lighted wands required at night.

Now our mobs' FCOM requires none. No marshaler, no wingwalker, at certain airports with these magic systems that supposedly scan the ramp safety zone for obstacles and movement..

Already lead to problems.

[dartmoorman]

.... abrupt point load into top outer engine nacelle .... = new wing ...

[Dairyground]

.... abrupt point load into top outer engine nacelle .... = new wing ...


I thought this was covered by the load case:

... excessive external load on nacelle:- engine falls off, wing left intact

[dartmoorman]

.... was the tunnel out or did the A380 not see ?

[dartmoorman]

.... money

[LlamaFarmer]

On the PFD. Only it doesn't show wingtip or outboard engines.

I'm not sure taxiing onto stand with heads in is that wise anyway.


But it could be fitted to new aircraft fairly easily I'd have thought?


And it's merely a further resource to use... once lined up for the gate, a quick check that there's nothing significant in the way (i.e. vehicle or airbridge) and then head back outside.

Could even have the guidance lines on like some reversing cameras on cars, so you can see the area that needs to be clear to safely proceed

[tdracer]

Pretty much anything that goes on an aircraft you can add a few zeros to the cost. So your $100 wingtip video camera would likely be north of $10k before it was certified. Plus it's unnecessary weight, and if you're going to feed it to the PFD, it'll need to be fully protected for HIRF/Lightning - which also adds cost and weight - often a lot.
Not quite the same as a video camera - FADECs are Level A flight critical hardware. But the electronics in a FADEC box are considerably less sophisticated than the typical laptop that you can pick up for less than $1,000. By the time they are qualified for the aircraft environment, the LRU cost for a FADEC is in the $250k - $500k range.:=

[Anilv]

Time to confess... how many of you have used the reflection off the terminal glass walls to stop 'exactly ' on the bar!


Anil

[wanabee777]

Guilty, as charged. :O

[Aluminium shuffler]

LLama, not a bad idea in principle, having the full set of screens displace taxi cameras, but the problem is that if a system that overrides normal displays malfunctions in flight, it's really going to spoil the day; less risk from a lack of taxi cameras on the ground than having to fly on standby instruments alone mid Pacific until landing...

[beerdrinker]

Interesting that apparently that the incident is not being discussed within Big Airways. The plebs are suggesting that it perhaps could it have been a Management pilot at the controls during taxi in?

[Hotel Mode]

Interesting that apparently that the incident is not being discussed within Big Airways. The plebs are suggesting that it perhaps could it have been a Management pilot at the controls during taxi in?

Erm it's being discussed plenty at BA. And given there wasn't a management pilot on board your second comment is an outright falsehood.

Maybe check your contacts!

[ExSp33db1rd]

Time to confess... how many of you have used the reflection off the terminal glass walls to stop 'exactly ' on the bar

See my earlier about Miami having a nose wheel focussed mirror.
( I parallel park my car using shop window "mirrors" - too.)

[flamant]

See my earlier about Miami having a nose wheel focussed mirror.
( I parallel park my car using shop window "mirrors" - too.)
No need for expensive onboard certificated cameras and screens if they are instead screwed to the terminal wall - large advertising hoarding-sized screens with feeds from several ground-based cameras. Cheap as chips and crying out for sponsorship.

[wiggy]

large advertising hoarding-sized screens with feeds from several ground-based cameras. Cheap as chips and crying out for sponsorship.

:ooh: That'll be fine until they switch to the adverts at the wrong time......

I can just imagine it...a couple of feet (metres) to go when: " And now, just time for a word from our sponsors, "That'll Buff Out Nicely" radome dent filler"................." :sad:

[FullWings]

What would be really useful is a “God’s eye” view of the whole proceedings displayed in the cockpit.

You can spec that option on quite a few cars now. Here’s a BMW one:

http://www.extremetech.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/BMW-surround-view-X5.jpg

[overstress]

A drone could pop out of a special compartment in the upper fuselage after landing and hover just above as you taxy in, relaying the bird's eye view. You read it here first. If anyone does it, I'll take the royalties... :hmm: