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MikeWhiskey
10th Jan 2016, 13:29
I am a PPL with around 300h. I am thinking about becoming a FI and am interested in your opinions. I would be interested in instructing part-time next to the main job and EVENTUALLY starting a smaller business at a far later stage. So basically some sort of professionalised hobby on back of having fun doing it.

How do you see the market for freelance FI's or part-time-FI's? I see that some schools are looking for FI's, but rather on a full-time employment...

So, the question is actually whether to go for it or rather spending the money elsewhere? Aside from the learning curve by taking the course it wouldn't make sense when 'no-one' would be interested in taking me up as a freelance or part-time?

Before taking the FI-course I would need to complete the CPL, so it would not become a boring year...

Looking forward to your thoughts.

maximus610
10th Jan 2016, 16:58
Hi MikeWhiskey, you don't need to complete CPL to become FI.

If you want to instruct for PPL, then CPL(or ATPL) theory is enough (otherwise you are eligible to instruct only towards the LAPL) and don't forget about 150h PIC before starting the FI course.

Cheers

Maximus

Whopity
10th Jan 2016, 17:12
How do you see the market for freelance FI's The EU has largely reduced the market for freelance FIs to zero, because all training for a licence must be conducted at an approved or registered organisation. Most employ part time instructors so the scope is only reduced by the numbers who can afford to train for a licence. In any event a newly qualified FI has to be supervised until they remove the Restriction so the first 100-200 hours would have curtailed freelance operation anyway. There will always be a market, you just have to find it.

Big Pistons Forever
10th Jan 2016, 18:31
Hi MikeWhiskey, you don't need to complete CPL to become FI.

If you want to instruct for PPL, then CPL(or ATPL) theory is enough (otherwise you are eligible to instruct only towards the LAPL) and don't forget about 150h PIC before starting the FI course.

Cheers

Maximus

True but you need a pretty high level of flying skill. I have never met a 300 hr PPL that could fly at a high enough standard to realistically commence the FI course. Even the CPL's almost always need some additional dual to polish their stick and rudder skills before I can start teaching them how to teach.

Even if I had never used my FI course, I still would have considered it money well spent as it moved me to a whole new level of flying knowledge and skill. It made me a better pilot in every way.

mykul10
10th Jan 2016, 20:48
True but you need a pretty high level of flying skill. I have never met a 300 hr PPL that could fly at a high enough standard to realistically commence the FI course. Even the CPL's almost always need some additional dual to polish their stick and rudder skills before I can start teaching them how to teach.

Even if I had never used my FI course, I still would have considered it money well spent as it moved me to a whole new level of flying knowledge and skill. It made me a better pilot in every way.

Agree 110%.

It looks quite likely that either a BTO or RTO option will be introduced as an alternative to full ATO status for RFs. This is good news for GA and therefore part-time instructors. It's sad that EASA are having to spend so much money unpicking something which should never have been in the first place.

Whopity
10th Jan 2016, 21:52
I have never met a 300 hr PPL that could fly at a high enough standard to realistically commence the FI courseI have met a number who were far better candidates than graduates from an Integrated school who had shiny new frozen ATPLs!

Big Pistons Forever
10th Jan 2016, 23:04
I have met a number who were far better candidates than graduates from an Integrated school who had shiny new frozen ATPLs!


Yes a dedicated 300 hr PPL who actually wants to teach and brings some life skills with him, will in the long rung be of more value to future students but that does not change what has been my experience. I have not yet personally seen a 300 hours PPL that had personal flying skills that were already at a high enough standard they could immediate start a FI course.

I only provided the comment to alert the OP that he should expect to have to brush up on his personal flying skills prior to starting FI training.

Whopity
11th Jan 2016, 07:46
I have not yet personally seen a 300 hours PPL that had personal flying skills that were already at a high enough standard they could immediate start a FI course.Thats why we have a pre-entry test and then a 30 hour flying + 125 hour theory FI Course.

Parson
11th Jan 2016, 10:50
As a (slight) aside, I never cease to be amazed at the standard of flying of SOME experienced PPLs. In particular, poor RT, lookout and general situational awareness. It is often said that a PPL is a 'licence to learn' and there is a huge variation in how that is applied, post qualification. Some seek to develop and retain their skills, even if not doing any further formal training, while others seem to just 'jump in and go'.

I would like to think that any prospective FI would have a good look at themselves first and their attitude to every flight (do you self brief & debrief for a start....?) before going anywhere near a pre-entry flight test.

orionsbelt
11th Jan 2016, 14:03
MW
You need to look at the costs and will it be worth it.
FYI I list below what it cost me in 2000 - 2002, I was a 1000hr PPL
IMC /Night /Aero’s ex Pitt’s owner.
I took early retirement at 54 and as I had the budget decided to give it a go.
CPL ground school and 14 UK National CPL exams plus hotels / petro etc. 6000
CPL Flying School plus exams fees etc. 8000
FI Flight School plus exam fees etc. Around 8000
Aero’s and night Instructor ratings cant remember but around 2000.
IMC Instructor 2000 -3000 (taken after a couple of years teaching)
Single Engine IR 15000 plus on 50 hrs flying and Sim but delayed flight test as I was not up to standard and it was pointless doing a test costing 1700 plus inc A/C Hire knowing I was going to fail, planned to do it later but never got around to it. So that’s around 42000. Add to that Class 1 Medicals and then renewal fees etc.
Now I know the requirements today are a lot less than my day, but your CPL theories and FI Course are still going to set you back
the best part of 12000 /13000 etc

I was paid 10 /12 an hour and in 6 years flew 1800 Instruction hours. I jacked it in in 2008. One Club owner said to me ‘‘well you are doing it for love aren’t you’’!!!!!
Yes I enjoyed it very much, was it worth it..........
I wonder what the equivalent costs will be today!

***

MikeWhiskey
11th Jan 2016, 20:26
you don't need to complete CPL to become FI
Indeed, however when completing the theory then I would also complete the flight training...

I have never met a 300 hr PPL that could fly at a high enough standard to realistically commence the FI course.
Big Piston, thanks for your view! It is clear (or it should be) that the flying skills must be high enough to qualify for the FI. I guess this would be verified with the pre-entry test?

Even if I had never used my FI course, I still would have considered it money well spent as it moved me to a whole new level of flying knowledge and skill. It made me a better pilot in every way.
This is what a friend of mine also mentioned and what certainly raised my interest in taking the course...

@orionsbelt: This is a nice bill.... As per my calculations the cost are lower and, some bucks more or less aside, the key question is as well whether there would be some sort of return of investment (at least to get the FI-training 'refunded' somewhen...). And 10GBP (or 20EUR, or whatever the current rate is) per hour is remarkable - I have to pay my cleaning lady far more than that............................ So actually one is doing the stuff solely for love AND has spare money left with no other purpose for it... ?

Thanks a lot for your thoughts and comments - very useful and also some food for thought!

Pull what
15th Jan 2016, 12:35
Quote:
I have not yet personally seen a 300 hours PPL that had personal flying skills that were already at a high enough standard they could immediate start a FI course.
Thats why we have a pre-entry test and then a 30 hour flying + 125 hour theory FI Course.

The aim of the course is to teach you to be a flying instructor, your skills should be high enough at the commencement of the course.If pilots built up their hours doing some challenging flying rather than S & L cross countries the standard would be higher!

Parson
15th Jan 2016, 14:26
Pull what - flying S&L is what many pilots struggle to do! What prep would you advise then?