Korean KE007 shot down in '83 by accident - new data released

[WojtekSz]

Welcome in 2016 - very best wishes for the peaceful and happy new year!

Just run across new data on Korean KE007 shot down over Sakhalin (USSR) back in 1983.
The source is unusual here but over the last two years i have found them to be reliable as for general public media.
the article link is Washington Lied: Evidence Proves USSR Downed KE007 Plane by Accident (http://sputniknews.com/politics/20151227/1032377880/washington-lied-ussr-downed-ke007-by-accident.html)
the most important quote:
The de-classified diplomatic documents released recently by Japan's Foreign Minister confirm that the passenger aircraft was downed by mistake, something that Washington knew perfectly well. Two months after the incident Tokyo diplomats were confidentially informed by the Reagan administration's top officials that the USSR had confused the Korean Air Lines Flight 007 with a US RC-135 surveillance plane and shot down the passenger plane quite by accident.
http://www.veteranstoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/z60831-KA_Flight_007.jpg
i couldn't manage to find the Japanese original link - maybe some Japan based members could help here?

[GlobalNav]

Ah yes, Sputnick News, an impeccable source. If you wish to believe this "news", well.... Send Vlad a Christmas card for me.

[Airbubba]

From an unbiased news source called, uh, Sputnik International? :}

Thanks comrade WojtekSz, we'll forward it to the people's correspondents at CNN and BBC for their eager retransmission. :ok:

[Two's in]

The fact was both the Russians and the Americans lied about the exact circumstances of the shoot down and 269 lives were sacrificed in the interests of "National Security". You're as likely to get the truth about this shoot down as you will the Malaysian 777 over the Ukraine.

[DaveReidUK]

From an unbiased news source called, uh, Sputnik International?Quite so.

"Rossiya Segodnya is an international news agency founded by a decree of the Russian President on 9 December 2013.

On 10 November 2014, the agency launched the Sputnik multimedia platform with Radio Sputnik as its audio component, replacing the Voice of Russia."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rossiya_Segodnya

[JanetFlight]

Sputnik News...Rock On Babe...the same source some years ago explained us all the true hidden agenda of some countries navies off-shore Somalia coast was not because of XXI Piracy, but indeed because of a super-secret Vortex-Portal in that very same waters used to travel forward & back in time :ok:

[Capn Bloggs]

super-secret Vortex
Didn't Johnny English clean up Vortex a while ago?

[PersonFromPorlock]

IIRC, this was mooted about at the time, and the RC-135 was supposed to have turned back long before KAL flight was intercepted. Also, and again this is a really dim memory, at the time I looked at the reported tracks of the two and decided they could not have come closer to one another on a GCI scope than several inches, which doesn't seem too confusing.

Of course, everyone involved could have been lying from day one, so I doubt we'll ever know.

[twochai]

IIRC the Russian pilot who intercepted KE007 had a visual on the 747 and identified the tail markings as such!

[WojtekSz]

@ all interested
thanks for opinions on Sputnik, which may be well justified, but this is just another news agency, very much like CNN or AlJazeera:
the information provided on KE007 is clearly flight safety related and is new. As such needs it needs clarification/confirmation and this is what i am seeking here - can somebody versed in Japanese confirm that such documents were really released to public?

as you can see i come from a country where in the '80s we all knew that the government was plain and simply lying to the population. since 2009 i got interested in economy and have learned the hard way that NO news agency can be trusted and all information needs critical verification.


@PersonFromPorlock
i tend to agree with your opinion that both sides could have been lying from day one ... unfortunately

[parabellum]

The Russian pilot identified the KAL 747 before he released his missile, there is/was a recording of the conversation he had with his controllers who ordered him to shoot the aircraft down. Whatever the 'lies' and whatever the 'mistakes' it was a deliberate downing of a known civilian aircraft. The evidence is years old and the original recording and transcript will certainly be archived somewhere, possibly South Korea and undoubtedly the CIA will have a copy.

[Aluminium shuffler]

"thanks for opinions on Sputnik, which may be well justified, but this is just another news agency, very much like CNN or AlJazeera:"

- No, it really isn't!


"as you can see i come from a country where in the '80s we all knew that the government was plain and simply lying to the population."

- All media does, but in Russia they take it to a completely different level, about the same as North Korea. Really, as soon as you see the source as Russian, discard the information as lunacy.

[WojtekSz]

@Aluminium
if one decides to not use Russian (possibly Chinese, Iranian and other Eastern sources, excluding NKorean!) than he agrees to see the situation through seriously and obviously biased glasses.
Have you heard that 'Truth is the first casualty in war'?
have you seen BBC reporting WTC7 collapsed before it actually happened?

what is needed is calm, information based, situation awareness

[Sunamer]

What a load of BS!

A quote "This episode of the Soviet history has long been used by Washington as proof of the "substantial threat" of the Soviet system to humanity. However, the truth has been finally brought to light: the US government knew it was an accident"
1. How exactly Washington was supposed to "know" what happened if the black box was handed over to Koreans ONLY in 1992?
2. When a plane is ordered to be shot down, this is NOT accidental. It might be a mistake in identification but accident - hell no.
3. What makes it even worse is that Russian pilot didn't even care to identify the A/C nor did he care to warn it as it was demanded by the international law. Those rounds that he used to "warn" the plane didn't even have tracers in them, which makes the whole task of using them (as warning shots) POINTLESS regardless of the time of the day. You can't even see them during the daylight, let along - night.

" as proof of the "substantial threat" of the Soviet system to humanity"
Rightfully so because shooting down a plane when there was no need to do so, at least because the pilot didn't even identify nor did he warn the crew of the jet that they are going to be shot down.

Yeah, that was a very crude piece of soviet propaganda...albeit a bit late (like 50 years late).

[Sunamer]

@Aluminium
have you seen BBC reporting WTC7 collapsed before it actually happened?
what is needed is calm, information based, situation awareness

Ugh...so you are one of those conspiritards as well? Got it.
No further questions, really...
Usually your ilk is so stupid, they even refuse to look at steel strength vs temp chart, because it would destroy the whole theory of WTC so called "inside job".

[stator vane]

why the derogatory responses? none of us got to choose where we were born and what news agency we were raised under. When one's eyes begin to open to light from other sources, he/she will receive enough resistance from their own country's people. we should not create another barrier to further enlightenment by making fun of those who are just now beginning to see things in a different perspective.

[swordfish41]

I have no idea what this rubbish is doing on PPRuNE,
but if anyone wants the truth about the shooting down of the Korean Airlines Flight KE 007 they can seek out a copy of the ICAO report, my copy of which is referenced C-WP/9781, and published on 28/5/93. It refers inter alia to the fact that the CVR and DFDR tapes were handed over in 1993 by Moscow ten years after the event and ten years after the Soviet Government repeatedly denied having recovered them. The appendix to the report also contains transcripts of the conversations between the pilot of the Russian fighter and his ground controllers who ordered the murder of the passengers and crew of that 747.
The account by the US Government of the event, which was repeatedly questioned by the Soviet Government and their useful idiots around the world is the truth.
The original poster of this thread is either a fool or a propagandist.

[DaveReidUK]

Notwithstanding the dubious source cited by the OP, the ICAO report referenced above does contain the finding that the Russians shot down an aircraft that they had assumed to be a USAF RC-135.

So if we knew that 23 years ago, what exactly is new ... ?

[MATELO]

i couldn't manage to find the Japanese original link - maybe some Japan based members could help here?

It was deleted in 1993.

[FlightDetent]

The propaganda tools are new, somewhat (3 years).

Video: My life as a pro-Putin propagandist in Russia?s secret 'troll factory' - Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/11656043/My-life-as-a-pro-Putin-propagandist-in-Russias-secret-troll-factory.html)
Russia's Online-Comment Propaganda Army - The Atlantic (http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2013/10/russias-online-comment-propaganda-army/280432/)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_brigades
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trolls_from_Olgino
Internet Research Agency (http://www.stopfake.org/en/tag/internet-research-agency/)
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/07/magazine/the-agency.html?_r=0 (this one's really good)
Inside Russia's Troll Factory: Controlling debate and stifling dissent in internet forums and social media - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-08-12/inside-russia's-troll-factory-internet-forums-social-media/6692318)
Why are Russian trolls spreading online hoaxes in the U.S.? | PBS NewsHour (http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/russian-trolls-spreading-online-hoaxes-u-s/) (too)

[pax britanica]

Dear Oh dear
people need to realise in the spook world there is no right and no wrong.

The cold war went on so long because both sides saw and portrayed each other as a threat.
As we found out afterwards the Russians were afraid of Nato and its capability and would never have started a war they knew they would lose but at the same time their paranoia caused them to do some stupid and some nasty things.

Wicked Ruskies down civilian jet with Americans on board =global tragedy
Gallant Americans shoot down Iranian airliner with only Iranians and regional nationals on board=defence of the free world.

Both as bad as each other-big bullying nations

[Shemya]

I believe you are correct in your recall, the RC-135 did turn back long before KAL 007 was intercepted. However the two aircraft flight paths could have crossed northeast of Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky. It is possible that the targets could have become one/close on a GCI scope in that location.



The best explanation (read theory) for KAL 007 deviating from its planned flight track I ever read was in AW&ST Letters to the Editor. The letter was by a (IIRC) couple of Canadian Air Force navigators. They stated that KAL 007 had a 10 point INS and theorized that the destination Aerodrome was loaded in waypoint 10. This was common airline practice in that era and it allowed you to check the great circle route distance to destination Aerodrome when desired. The two navigators speculated that one of the pilots checked the distance to the destination Aerodrome by selecting waypoint 10 and then hit ENTER on the INS (commanding go direct waypoint 10) rather than staying on the INS programed current planned flight track.



Another item I have never seen mentioned about KAL 007 is the Aircraft Commander of the RC-135 the night KAL 007 was shot down was killed 17 months later in the crash of an RC-135 in Valdez, Alaska. There is quite a bit of background material on this website that can add to one’s ability to speculate what happened the evening KAL 007 was shot down. http://www.rc135.com/0000/INDEX.HTM (http://www.rc135.com/0000/INDEX.HTM)



One other tidbit that follows this event to this day is a major airline today daily flies a flight numbered 07 through the geographic area where the KAL 007 event took place. On the anniversary of the KAL 007 event they renumber the flight for the day.

[twb3]

Why is this in Rumors and News? Nothing new here, surely this belongs in Jet Blast.

TWB