Taxi in IMC/VFR-conditions

[skyhawk_norway]

Hello,

I have a PPL-A, but no IR or night rating.

Can I legally taxi my SEP to/from the hangar and the fuel facility in IMC or night conditions without these privileges?

This is in an area of my airport not controlled by ATC.

[BEagle]

From the Aircrew Regulation:

"Flight time":

for aeroplanes, touring motor gliders and powered-lift, it means the total time from the moment an aircraft first moves for the purpose of taking off until the moment it finally comes to rest at the end of the flight;

As your ground movement does not include 'the purpose of taking off', it is not a 'flight'. Hence neither FCL.600 IR nor FCL.810 apply.

[piperboy84]

Not sure what the book says, but if the ground vis is crap, I'd be monitoring both tower and ground (or CTAF) while repositioning to listen for and anticipate the location of any traffic taxiing for departure or arriving on a procedure that may be planning on taxiing or parking near where you are operating. Light up your aircraft like a xmas tree and self announce your intentions. You dont want to come face to face with a large prop.

And stay the hell away from the runways as incursions end in severe bollockings at best

[Peter Geldard]

Classic situation where one should request "Progressive Taxi".

[India Four Two]

This is in an area of my airport not controlled by ATC.

Even though it is not controlled, I would still call Ground and advise them of my intentions.

[Talkdownman]

I have a PPL-A, but no IR or night rating.
Can I legally taxi my SEP to/from the hangar and the fuel facility in IMC or night conditions without these privileges?
Because it is not a flight one doesn't even need a flight crew licence. When I was dongler we'd taxi stuff about in all weathers and put them in a pretty line before the students came along and spoilt it.

[DeltaV]

But you should still be careful. Long before she became mine my little aeroplane was involved in a collision with a car on the runway whilst taxying in fog. I have photographs and it didn't just 'polish out' from either of the participants.

[500 above]

That narrows the field down then, talkdownman! Do you remember G-LEVI being put in the bar one 'foggy' day?

[lasseb]

It might be a good idea to check with your ensurrance company also. Maybe there is a clause somewhere about who may or may not taxi the a/c.

[ChickenHouse]

Because it is not a flight one doesn't even need a flight crew licence.
I somehow doubt that. Sorry, it is a long time ago I looked into the law, but when memory recalls correct, the relevant paragraphs talk of "operating an aircraft" requires a license and operating starts at Master Switch ON. I remember some other "conditional permits" mentioned in the insurance papers, like special permits for A/P to move the planes at the maintenance org, but don't remember the details. During all my career as an instructor, i.e. a student was never ever allowed to switch the master on without a written flight order or oral flight permission when the instructor was delayed but already at the airport (naming conventions differ a bit at the schools) to document the instructor is responsible for everything the student does. At the bigger airports this paper/permission was also checked at security to not let a student alone to the plane without. The discussion about pre-flight checks - on many planes you cannot do that without power - was one of the always predictable ones. I remember one of my bosses taxiing a plane to fuel up and get into a ramp check at the tap with a lot of trouble, as he left all papers in his car outside security as he only wanted to make the plane ready for somebody else. From that instance I strongly suspect there is no way to do that without a proper permit, be it pilots license or other.

To the taxiing in IMC, do not light up all lights, as you may blind yourself, but choose sufficient lighting to see. I treated taxiing in IMC as to be done under "IFR thinking", means I always requested startup clearance or at least gave notice on the fields frequency - nothing wrong with using the time to do ground operations, such as refueling, i.e. when you plan a long X/C and know in about half an hour the sun will shine.

[fujii]

An engineer may taxi an aircraft without a pilot licence.

As for the IMC question. Anything less than VMC is IMC. (SPL VFR aside). A cloud base one foot under VMC minimum with ten kms visibility is IMC but quite safe to taxi in. IMC/VMC determines flight operations, not ground operations.

It is when LVP are in force that ground operations change.

[A and C]

We start with a reasonable question and get stupid answers, anyone can taxi an aircraft provided the owner is happy they have had appropriate training, as to the WX conditions, you need to be able to see enough to not hit anything.

[ChickenHouse]

We start with a reasonable question and get stupid answers, anyone can taxi an aircraft provided the owner is happy they have had appropriate training, as to the WX conditions, you need to be able to see enough to not hit anything.
see i.e. Australian (https://www.casa.gov.au/sites/g/files/net351/f/_assets/main/lib100191/taxiing-an-aeroplane.pdf) regulations for taxiing an aircraft; US FAA also has something called a Run-Taxi Card, I think it was related to Part 91.1(b) which states it applies to "operating" an aircraft, which definitely involves taxiing; the guy from the german maintenance organization where I had an unplanned repair showed me an officially looking endorsement card with a list of aircraft he was allowed to taxi before he moved the plane ... Unfortunatley, I don't know authorities, other than the aussies, right away with a clear document for that.

So - No, it is by no means an easy question/answer and far from stupid, either sides.

[ShyTorque]

Chicken house, if that was in the UK, I think there seems to be some confusion over what is required by aviation regulations and local security procedures at a particular airfield.

However, there may well be differences in regulations in different parts of the world, so if the OP wants a definitive answer he should ask his local aviation authority, rather than on an international forum.

[Wageslave]

Nonetheless in the UK Beagle's statement is correct.
Insurance companies and airfield operators may have more to say on the matter but as far as legality is concerned this is not an issue.

Think about it. The CAA has no interest or oversight on aircraft that are grounded/not airworthy which includes several big'uns with four Olympii or a couple of reheated Avons and often "taxi" at 200mph on nice sunday afternoons. No one has a licence to "operate" these as none exists. They are not deemed to be in flight due to the reference Beagle gave.

[Prop swinger]

Actually Part NCO.GEN.115 applies (at least in the case of EASA aircraft.) An aeroplane shall only be taxied on the movement area of an aerodrome if the person at the controls:
(a) is an appropriately qualified pilot; or

(b) has been designated by the operator and: (1) is trained to taxi the aeroplane;
(2) is trained to use the radio telephone, if radio communications are required;
(3) has received instruction in respect of aerodrome layout, routes, signs, marking, lights, air traffic control (ATC) signals and instructions, phraseology and procedures; and
(4) is able to conform to the operational standards required for safe aeroplane movement at the aerodrome.

[PA28181]

I don't know any vehical in the UK that needs a licence to operate on private land irrespective of WX conditions.:ugh:

[Talkdownman]

An aeroplane shall only be taxied on the movement area of an aerodrome if the person at the controls:etc.

What is the definition of 'movement area' with respect to the UK?
There doesn't appear to be anything in CAP393...

[PA28181]

Of top of my head without ploughing through the relevant docs. Movement area, Apron,Taxiway,Runway, ie those areas that need lighting/signage/markings, and defined wing clearances. Not hangers,maintenance, boggy grass or other non-aircraft friendly areas within airport boundary etc?

And in the quote from "prop swinger" confirmation that no licence needed to taxi provided person is deemed competent.

[Talkdownman]

Of top of my head
Thank you, but not an Archer's 'shot in the dark' guess, a definition please...

[PA28181]

Do you really need it? I haven't in nearly 40 years of flying.....

[A and C]

Next someone will tell me that you can't move an aircraft from one end of the airfield to the other in icing conditions if it is not fitted with de-icing equipment.

[PA28181]

I'd be shocked to find that could possibly be allowed, without an ATPL in an immersion suit in total command....

[Talkdownman]

Until I read a definition of 'movement area' I cannot take Prop Swinger's quotation seriously...

If it said 'Manoeuvring Area', for which a definition does exist, it would have a little more credibility.

Until then we are talking about a vehicle, albeit with some protuberances, being moved under its own power on private land without any intention of flight. I think EASA should mind its own business and wind its horrid little jobsworth neck in.

Oh, and PA28181, get some time in... :-)

[PA28181]

Now you've opened up can of worms saying "under it's own power" I want to know the rules/laws pertaining to those who merely tow an aircraft with little tractors, this could get messy with any luck:O:)

[Crash one]

PA28181

Now you've opened up can of worms saying "under it's own power" I want to know the rules/laws pertaining to those who merely tow an aircraft with little tractors, this could get messy with any luck


Reading this thread I am seriously losing the will to live.
Shirley it must be some kind of wind up?
How about:- if the airfield is unlicensed any aircraft therein shall be dismantled into a quantity of spare parts and must be stored under cover and out of sight of the general public for security and public safety reasons.

[Talkdownman]

Now you've opened up can of worms saying "under it's own power"Maybe, but I didn't use a contractive apostrophe... ;)

[Prop swinger]

TDM,

Movement area = manoeuvring area + apron(s).
(ICAO, annex 14)

[PA28181]

The red wine is kickin' in, whats a "contraceptive astropothe"

[Talkdownman]

TDM,

Movement area = manoeuvring area + apron(s).
(ICAO, annex 14)
Thanks, I shall sleep well tonight.

whats a "contraceptive astropothe"
It's a little tiny wriggly-looking thing which can make a lot of difference if it is inserted in the wrong place...

[piperboy84]

Get this guy to move it for you

qeC1OwrBsS8

[pattern_is_full]

Until I read a definition of 'movement area' I cannot take Prop Swinger's quotation seriously...Good policy.

ICAO: "That part of an aerodrome to be used for the takeoff, landing and taxiing of aircraft, consisting of the maneuvering area and the apron(s)."

FAA: "Movement area means the runways, taxiways, and other areas of an airport that are used for taxiing, takeoff, and landing of aircraft, exclusive of loading ramps and aircraft parking areas."

So it depends on the jurisdiction....

Non-movement areas in the US (FAA) are defined visually by "single" hold markings. Solid line on the non-movement side, dashed line on the movement area side.

http://www.pilotworkshop.com/concrete5/files/5913/9628/2435/movement_area.jpg