EASA Loss of control prevention and recovery training

[Pilot DAR]

This...

https://easa.europa.eu/document-library/notices-of-proposed-amendment/npa-2015-13

...will be interesting!

I very much support the "back to basics" of this, even for GA pilots. We have a growing heritage of inexperience with this, and a requirement for improved training has got to help things.....

[TheOddOne]

On a first read-through of the NPA, the area that I think we need to work on most is:

realistic training scenarios that contain startle/surprise effects; (NPA2015-13)

We tend to carefully brief all aspects of each flight exercise and gradually build up from slow flight to recovery from fully developed clean stalls, through recovery at the first sign of the stall (usually stall light or horn) to recovery with approach configuration in the turn (base to final) and the go-around full-flap from the flare. We also brief for and practice recovery from full power climbing turns with out-of-trim set with the speed reducing towards the stall. This latter is also included in the 'recovery from unusual attitude' exercise where the student has hands in lap, head down and eyes closed, then has to recover when looking up. In the spiral dive, airspeed is usually in the yellow arc and AOB is around 45 deg. In the climb, full power, AOB around 15 and speed within 10kt of the stall. In all this, great emphasis is placed on keeping the ball in the middle, but then we've already got that fully ingrained before we start on the stall exercises, haven't we??? Then, later on, we go back and re-visit recovery from an incipient spin, that is a stall recovery with an AOB of around 45deg.

I can't see what more we're supposed to do, apart from try and increase the surprise element.

In the UK, most fatal accidents this year seem to be as a result of poor judgement or planning rather than a sudden aircraft upset resulting in a stall/spin scenario, so maybe we should be concentrating on weather-related judgement rather than aircraft handling other than the above. Goodness knows, we've had enough weather lately to practice with!

Actually, perhaps we should be teaching what has been common in aerobatics for decades, the Mueller/Beggs method. It might have worked for the Air France A330.

Just my view as a lowly instructor, trying to turn out pilots who aren't going to kill themselves or their passengers, not future aerobatic champions...

TOO

[Flyingmac]

"As a result from taking a risk based approach to develop regulations, the main focus of the new training standards is on pilots who intend to pursue a pilot career with a commercial airline. Such pilots would likely complete either an aeroplane Airline Transport Pilot Licence (ATPL(A)) or a Multi-crew Pilot Licence (MPL) integrated course, followed by a type rating on a multi-pilot aeroplane".


More 'Enhanced Systems Management' than 'Advanced flying skills' then.

[Pace]

More 'Enhanced Systems Management' than 'Advanced flying skills' then.

It is the very opposite from that and a realisation by both the FAA and obviously now EASA that there is too much system reliance and not enough on hand flying and basic recovery skills

This was highlighted with two major airline events where the pilots used the wrong recovery techniques.

Even in GA with advanced systems as in the Cirrus there is an over reliance on autopilots and advanced pilot and navigation aids meaning we have a new generation of button pushers.

I personally feel we need to incorporate " upset training " in the syllabus including spinning in a regulated and controlled manner.

Pace

[wiggy]

It is ...... a realisation by both the FAA and obviously now EASA that there is too much system reliance and not enough on hand flying and basic recovery skills


Yep, absolutely right. Personally I don't think extra training in a light aircraft is the panacea EASA would like it to be, but at least it's better than nothing.

[Shaggy Sheep Driver]

Actually, perhaps we should be teaching what has been common in aerobatics for decades, the Mueller/Beggs method. It might have worked for the Air France A330.


Just flying the aeroplane would have worked fine for that inexplicable tragedy!

You know.... Stick forward, waves get bigger, stick back, waves get smaller. Stick all the way back, waves get bigger again.

[TheOddOne]

Mueller/Beggs

'waves and clouds swapping places rapidly, whirl of purple going past. Let go of everything. Now pull hard on throttle. Stick thrashing about, keep knees etc out of the way. Waves and clouds sort themselves out, purple changes to sensible colours. Eventually, waves slowly getting bigger, but in right place. Stick in middle. Recover to normal flight.'

Doesn't work for all aircraft types, sadly.

TOO

[Pace]

Part of the problem is that many pilots don't fly! It's on with the auto and then becomes a button pushing exercise!
Easy Jet are now encouraging crews in the right weather conditions to disconnect and hand fly!
I know in my own operation on a small private jet we will often hand fly up to RVSM airspace and on short position flights we may even hand fly the entire route! It's demanding but a great exercise!
I can imagine some pilots who have never flown hands on for a large period of time and we are not even talking about upset training but basic regular hand flying

Pace

[9 lives]

In all this, great emphasis is placed on keeping the ball in the middle, but then we've already got that fully ingrained before we start on the stall exercises, haven't we??? Then, later on, we go back and re-visit recovery from an incipient spin, that is a stall recovery with an AOB of around 45deg.

I can't see what more we're supposed to do, apart from try and increase the surprise element.

That's great, but it's only the introduction to the required skills, it is certainly not ingraining those skills in the pilot's "muscle memory", nor the necessary frequent refresher post PPL.

Informal poll, should people wish to state:

How long since posters here have actually piloted a plane through a stall, a spin and a spiral dive, from entry to full recovery?

Forced approach and power off landing to a stop, with a 180 degree turn during approach?

For me, all four several times, within the last two months. I consider them to be life saving skills, which I practice regularly.

[Gertrude the Wombat]

Informal poll, should people wish to state:

How long since posters here have actually piloted a plane through a stall, a spin and a spiral dive, from entry to full recovery?

Forced approach and power off landing to a stop, with a 180 degree turn during approach?
Yes, well.

But, at least, one does get to do partial panel unusual attitudes recovery every two years.

[Genghis the Engineer]

About 2 months ago.

G

[India Four Two]

stall, a spin and a spiral dive, from entry to full recovery
During spring glider checkout.

Forced approach and power off landing to a stop, with a 180 degree turn during approach

Several times in a tow plane, during the gliding season.