POB?

[DOC.400]

Have I missed something but flying yesterday I was asked for number of POB by both Benson and Brize -never before except when landing......

[ShyTorque]

It's normal for military units to ask; some other agencies also. I always give it when asked to pass my details anyway. :ok:

[PA28181]

Probably because the Military may have to show "duty of care" and are covered by "elfin safety" laws nowadays. Which is quite ironic given they play with guns & bombs.....

[flybymike]

My local airfield always ask for POB.
They are never optimistic about my landings.

[PA28181]

My local airfield always ask for POB.

Same here but that is usually after telling them that on the initial contact, :mad:er's

I was working Boscombe yesterday with a "TS" and that wasn't asked..

[fireflybob]

I always answer "Standby whilst I check"....in a PA38.....

[dont overfil]

I always ask Unusual Attitude how many POB when he's flying his Cassutt:p

[ShyTorque]

Probably because the Military may have to show "duty of care" and are covered by "elfin safety" laws nowadays. Which is quite ironic given they play with guns & bombs.....

No, as far as I can recall, it's not changed for decades, they were asking for POB well before the "dreaded H&S stuff" surfaced. Not for their benefit, but yours and those with you in case your aircraft goes missing.

[fujii]

If in the U.S., how does an atheist cope with souls on board?

[Saab Dastard]

If in the U.S., how does an atheist cope with "souls" on board?

Just put an "R" in front of it...?

I'll get my coat.

SD

[abgd]

Even for a dualist it might cause problems: can a soul be physically located in space?

[Silvaire1]

If in the U.S., how does an atheist cope with souls on board?

If in the US, the only time the atheist pilot will be asked about souls on board is if he has declared an emergency to ATC and things are looking bad... in which case he'll probably be looking for help from any possible source!

Otherwise US ATC couldn't care less how many people are in the plane.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Last time I flew in the USA - an island airport about 2 years ago, I gave POB at taxi, as I'm used to in the UK, and got ticked off for it by the instructor who was there for my BFR. I explained why it was normal in the UK, he offered that in the USA, they expected their emergency services to work out how many to rescue for themselves!

It's a view, on the whole, I prefer the British method.

G

[Gertrude the Wombat]

Otherwise US ATC couldn't care less how many people are in the plane.
So if there's no emergency declared, and the aircraft simply stops communicating and vanishes from radar, how do they know how many bodies the emergency services should be looking for?

[Silvaire1]

The function of ATC is the US is to coordinate the use of airspace with as little intrusion and direction as possible. One of many functions of the individual is to coordinate with friends and relatives to look after himself however he thinks is appropriate.

[chevvron]

It's normal for military units to ask; some other agencies also. I always give it when asked to pass my details anyway. :ok:
Normal when taking off or landing at a military airfield but not for an en-route service. Many civil airfields ask too so that, as others have said, in case of emergency the rescuers know how many to look for.
I know I've said this before, but many years ago when I still worked at Farnborough, we had a report of an 'R22' crashing near Twyford and the two occupants had died. I checked the reg, saw we had worked it into Wycombe and noted it was a Hughes 269 not an R22. Phoned Wycombe and asked how many on board when it departed; they said it had booked out with 3 pob, so I contacted the AAIB investigator who was en-route (couldn't reach the rescue units on scene) and advised him. After a lot of searching, they found the third body some distance from the crash site and concluded they had exited the aircraft before impact.
There was always the chance this third person might have survived and died of their injuries had they not searched for them.

[PA28181]

The function of ATC is the US is to coordinate the use of airspace with as little intrusion and direction as possible. One of many functions of the individual is to coordinate with friends and relatives to look after himself however he thinks is appropriate.

What a crock...


Presume all friends and Rels are constantly ringing up "ATC" with requests as to whether everyone has arrived at dest otherwise how would they know?

No thanks, I'll stick with our way and don't have a prob telling any ATSU how many POB it's one less thing to say when plummeting towards a school...

[Silvaire1]

As well as not having a function to understand how many people are on every little plane, US ATC generally has no idea where VFR traffic is going unless that traffic asks for Flight Following to that destination. They control their piece of airspace, that's it, and don't over reach. Neither do controlled airports keep written records listing the tail number of the hundreds of planes that showed up unannounced that day. Nor does every airport have a fire crew standing by waiting for the next disaster. It works fine.

I've noticed a lot of pilots text to keep in touch after they land. I'm inclined to text my loved ones to say that they missed a good lunch at a distant airport, and they reply that the dog misses me.

[PA28181]

US ATC has no idea where VFR traffic is going,

???

:ugh:

[Silvaire1]

OK, a little more explanation:

Before I taxi I say "Anytown Ground Piper 123AB, Joe's Hangars with Charlie for 24R" Then before I take off I say this: "Anytown tower, Piper 123AB holding short 24R, right downwind". They respond "123AB, Anytown Tower, Runway 24R cleared for takeoff, make right traffic" And then I go on my way. Acknowledging the takeoff clearance may be the last time I talk to anybody on the ground for the entire flight, for instance if the destination is an uncontrolled airport and if like most VFR traffic, I don't choose to call up later for Flight Following.

If I do ask for clearance through some airspace later in the flight, it'll typically be like this; "Bigtown Tower, Piper 123AB, 5 miles east, request south side transition" and the response might be "123AB, Bigtown tower, transition approved as requested, at or above 2,800, Big Town altimeter 29.87"

Nobody has any idea where I'm going.

[charliegolf]

A surreal moment of mine...

Belize on a Puma detatchmet, Sgt Golf and pilot sent on the sad duty to recover the body of an SAS candidate, accidentally shot on a jungle range. On climbing out of the clearing, I pressed to transmit on either HF or FM to let base know we were airborne again. POB was a normal part of the call. I just went blank when it came to giving the number- did the poor bugger count/ should I count him.

I counted him- had we gone in he deserved to be recovered.

CG

[flybymike]

Nice post.

[FantomZorbin]

The POB given by one aircraft was " 150 +2 +1" ... lots of head scratching in the tower before we decoded that!

[Pull what]

It is noticable in aviation that those with the least experience have the most to say-on the RT and forums!

[Sir Niall Dementia]

I always give POB out of habit, it used to be in CAP 413 as a mandatory, now I'm not sure.

Working offshore years ago I had to pass number on board when we were carrying 5 souls and 6 deceased. That way if we went in SAR would know that we had 11 on board, and to keep looking if they found 5 dead bodies.

Raises the question; when does the soul leave the body? Does the soul exist? why am I asking so many stupid questions?

SND

[DOC.400]

LOLZZZZZ!!!

What have I started.....

[Sir Niall Dementia]

Having not read CAP 413 for a while (actually about 25 years) I've just down loaded it and I can't find reference to SOB unless it is intended to be in 3.31 under additional information.

While in the same job I posted about above I once had a doctor certify a thoroughly dead body dead whilst in flight. That created chaos. I had to go to the fatal accident inquiry to account for how the stiff had become stiff while in my care. I really struggled to keep a straight face as I explained about knowing the deceased was deceased before we took off, the fact that the quack signed the death cert in flight effectively made the time of death on the aircraft about 130nm NE of Aberdeen, and there was also the point that he died of massive head injuries, I admit some of my landings aren't the smoothest but...................................

SND

[chevvron]

Having not read CAP 413 for a while (actually about 25 years) I've just down loaded it and I can't find reference to SOB unless it is intended to be in 3.31 under additional information.

While in the same job I posted about above I once had a doctor certify a thoroughly dead body dead whilst in flight. That created chaos. I had to go to the fatal accident inquiry to account for how the stiff had become stiff while in my care. I really struggled to keep a straight face as I explained about knowing the deceased was deceased before we took off, the fact that the quack signed the death cert in flight effectively made the time of death on the aircraft about 130nm NE of Aberdeen, and there was also the point that he died of massive head injuries, I admit some of my landings aren't the smoothest but...................................

SND
There's a difference between SOB and POB.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Alternately, I used to have a friend who had been born mid-Atlantic on a 707, and I recall reading an article a year or two ago about a helimed who had a birth on board between one of the Hebridean islands and a destination mainland maternity unit...

G

[ChickenHouse]

There's a difference between SOB and POB.
The Zombie factor?

[JW411]

I believe it was changed from SOB to POB as a result of complaints from certain religions who do not recognise the word soul and saw it as a bit of an insult.

[fireflybob]

A veteran flyer who flew from the local airport years ago when asked "Souls on Board?" always replied "Just me and the dog...."

[fisbangwollop]

As one of the voices of Scottish Information I always ask an aircraft as it coasts out over the water to report their SOB. My thinking is that it is one thing less to ask when he calls Mayday 5 minutes later.........again my thinking is if an aircraft ditches and the rescue services arrive on scene and find a single body floating they will know if 2SOB reported to continue their search.

Funnily enough as above a few years ago whilst talking to a regular that flew from the Isle of Man to Castle Kennedy the response was just myself and 2 sheep! :cool:

[Gertrude the Wombat]

I believe it was changed from SOB to POB as a result of complaints from certain religions who do not recognise the word soul and saw it as a bit of an insult.
Wot about just ordinary normal people who have no idea what a "soul" is supposed to be in the first place?