CASA wants to know everything about you.. and they will. [Archive]

thorn bird

4th Dec 2015, 23:18

Unbelievable!!!
I have to wonder how far in the future 1984 will become a reality?

Somehow the thought of some of the scumbags that inhabit Fort
Fumble snooping through ones email sends a chill up my spine.
They are already demanding access to medical records through a national
data base, whats next? bugged offices?, secret camera's in cockpits?, knowing the predilection of some of them, bugged bedrooms? especially the kiddies.
They'll be bugging confessional boxes next!
CAsA really is getting crazy, they'll be demanding body armour and fire arms next.

dhavillandpilot

5th Dec 2015, 00:01

I'm happy for CASA to have my Meta data.

BUT

Let them go to court to get a warrant, and at the same time make that application public knowledge prior to the court hearing.

My guess is it won't then happen.

A Jeffery Robertson conundrum! If CASA can access my data am I allow to access theirs? Fairs Fair.

YPJT

5th Dec 2015, 00:11

CASa has requested unlimited access to Metadata.... WFT for? so, we can get rid of the ASIC?
CASA have nothing to do with the administration of the legislation governing ASICs. Except for the fact they are an issuing body, and a very inept one at that.

Mr.Buzzy

5th Dec 2015, 05:17

That's Ok. My metadata inbox will be chockers with data from Buzztybabes.com Buzzmebabes.com and Homegrowninterracialbuzzing.com.

Bbzbzbzbzbzbzbzbzbzbzb

peterc005

5th Dec 2015, 05:31

Well, a few CASA investigations started with YouTube and Social Media posts so I can see why metadata might be useful.

This fixation with metadata is short-sighted and will be ultimately fruitless as it is easily defeated by anonymous browsers and proxies.

Politicians and bureaucrats are fixated with controlling the internet, but have a poor understanding of it.

27/09

5th Dec 2015, 07:04

Politicians and bureaucrats are fixated with controlling the internet, but have a poor understanding of it.What don't they have a poor understanding of?

jas24zzk

5th Dec 2015, 08:24

For once Peter, I agree with you.

Under the metadata rules, you force criminals to adopt things like IP skipping and all other lil tools that can make you annonymous on the net.

Better to have not data retention laws, kill the cost imposing INDUSTRY in infancy and let the crims post away believing they are immune.

Anything and everything you put on the internet is there for ever.

with not much skill you can even google posts you have made here and since deleted.

I see no reason for CASA to access the metadata. ATSB perhaps.. but that should be applied for inline with an investigation.

Ultralights

5th Dec 2015, 10:34

That's Ok. My metadata inbox will be chockers with data from Buzztybabes.com Buzzmebabes.com and Homegrowninterracialbuzzing.com.

Dont forget, your metadata isnt just your internet browsing, they know where your mobile phone has been, who you have rang, who rang you, who you sent a SMS to and who sent them to you, and the exact times you did this.. so, if they wanted to, they could find out when you left home, when you got to the airport, when you checked your weather app, when you used an electronic EFB that went online, and track your flight, when you landed, and where you went when you landed....

yay, for freedom! it seams Australian society decided they didnt want the right to privacy, because, you have nothing to hide remember.....:ugh:

Jenna Talia

5th Dec 2015, 13:29

They are already demanding access to medical records through a national data base

When did this happen?

TWT

5th Dec 2015, 18:18

They won't reveal the list of agencies that have metadata access,but it includes the likes of the RSPCA and local councils.The ATO has applied for access too.

Sunfish

5th Dec 2015, 20:41

If CASA gets metadata access, you are immediately identified on PPrune. A simple search of dates and posting times will out you in a second.

Squawk7700

5th Dec 2015, 21:18

If CASA gets metadata access, you are immediately identified on PPRuNe. A simple search of dates and posting times will out you in a second.

It won't be an issue if you have nothing to hide. If you thought you were anonymous on here anyway, you were kidding yourself.

(GK)

das Uber Soldat

5th Dec 2015, 21:50

Unbelievable!!!
I have to wonder how far in the future 1984 will become a reality?
Perpetual state surveillance, never ending wars with shifting enemies?

We've been there for some time already.

das Uber Soldat

5th Dec 2015, 21:53

If CASA gets metadata access, you are immediately identified on PPRuNe. A simple search of dates and posting times will out you in a second.
Time for everyone to read up on TOR, VPN's and proxies.

drpixie

5th Dec 2015, 22:41

Squawk7700 - everyone has stuff they assume is hidden. They might be 100% legal but everyone has stuff they'd rather wasn't public knowledge.

Would you be happy that your FOI knows that you rang a doctor specialising in STDs? (Happens to be a social acquaintance.) Or that your wife visited the Beyond Blue website? (Perhaps has a friend who is not so flash.) Etc etc

All perfectly legal and maybe even honourable - but you wouldn't want stuff like that to be public - it's called privacy.

thorn bird

6th Dec 2015, 08:35

Given the scum that inhabit the halls of Fort Fumble, especially the NSW chapter, these are the people who are quit comfortable perjuring themselves in court, manufacturing "evidence" etc. there is enormous potential for blackmail.
At what point does coercion become blackmail? These are NOT honorable people being handed our private lives!!

cattletruck

6th Dec 2015, 08:46

Agencies and companies that could (e.g telcos), have been collecting your metadata for over a decade now.

The sneaky ones have been onselling your data to the black market (e.g insurance brokers).

Yes there are privacy laws, etc, etc, but my experience of big business is that there are many morally deficient individuals working for them.

CASA has been a bit slow in wanting a piece of the action, and the only thing that would probably come of it is your favourite coffee being available at the places you frequent.

Propstop

6th Dec 2015, 18:04

To find out and punish the anti CASA people on the forums. For what other reason escapes me.:mad:

Sunfish

6th Dec 2015, 19:02

The problem with access to metadata is that CASA will have access to your Internet browsing history among other things and it then becomes a simple matter to run searches of its licence database against particular topics of interests.

For Avmed, what pilots have looked up the terms "heart attack", "heart disease", high blood pressure, etc. etc. etc.

For anyone facing prosecution by CASA, access to your metadata is going to identify your lawyers, your witnesses, your expert witnesses and your entire defence strategy.

As for associations like the RAA, SAAA, etc. CASa can get a very good idea of your business strategy and internal organisation.

There is really no limit to CASA power once they have this access and from available evidence of past experience, CASA is a vindictive, untrustworthy and corrupt organisation. They WILL misuse metadata!

De_flieger

7th Dec 2015, 01:35

And metadata is far, far more than just what you've been searching for on the internet. Were you fatigued before an incident? If you say you weren't, why do your mobile records indicate a series of texts sent and received through the night, and can you justify keeping your job? Searching something on BeyondBlue, for whatever reason? Are you sure you aren't depressed? Say yes and you are seen as depressed, say no and you are seen as both depressed and lying to your medical examiner or CASA, both of which can have serious and ongoing implications for your employment.

Metadata also binds together a lot of otherwise separate information, which makes it so powerful. The tracking cookie on your home PC might know your browser history, the work PC might know you are a regular on the AFAP jobs website and pprune, the phone company knows who you call and when, and from where, the spyware you inadvertently installed may know your preference for busty blondes, but storing all this information collected across different devices and locations and collating it into one dataset, linked to you, for CASA, is far more powerful and dangerous than any individual organisation that previously had a piece of the overall picture.

Having an affair, or conducting anything else that you may not wish to be public knowledge but isnt otherwise illegal, there are plenty of pointers available through the metadata of when phone calls are made, or not answered (say late night calls that aren't answered when the wife's cell phone is logged in at the same location), when mobile phones log onto cell towers and when they move around from one cell to the next.

As far as claiming this helps stop crime and terrorism, TOR, VPN and numerous other forms of encrypted communication are already in use that effectively stop this form of tracking being useful, this is only a way to keep track of those people who arent seriously trying to cover their tracks; laws that everyone accepted in the name of national security are being twisted to watch everyone. People suspected of serious crimes will be surveilled, bugged by police or intelligence services following proper procedures such as obtaining warrants and otherwise monitored, this just watches everyone else that hasn't committed a crime (yet) until someone decides to leaf through reams of data and find something. Did your phone log onto a cell tower before you landed? But your company procedure is phones in flight mode, are you this neglectful of all your procedures or just the ones you disagree with?

neville_nobody

7th Dec 2015, 06:46

Given that most people would have their phones off in an aeroplane how is meta data actually going to help CASA in their goal of regulating the CARs?

Another question to ask is who does CASA share its information with?

I would be interested in seeing their submission if it is available.

Squawk7700

7th Dec 2015, 08:17

It would be pretty easy to match a phone location to a logbook if logbook trolling were to take place retrospectively. Add that to accessing weather forecasts would be on record. Even your data card could be traced from your data service using OZRunways or Avplan. The potential is almost endless...

Keep your nose clean as they say, stay out of trouble and you won't have a problem, because there's not much you can do about it other than go off the grid completely!

cattletruck

7th Dec 2015, 08:20

A few other aspects of metadata collection that I have witnessed are:

1) Most professional criminal organisations already know how to bypass or obfuscate the metadata trails they may create.

2) Agencies or organisations can fabricate a set of metadata trails to suit their own agendas. This is an extremely difficult for an individual to disprove.

3) The metadata collection system, by it very own closed system nature, is itself corruptible.

Sbaker

7th Dec 2015, 20:44

De Flieger...

and when did "everyone" accept these laws in the name of national security? Last I remember in this "Dictatorship Democracy" the people of Australia have whatever rammed down their throats whether 99% of the public like it or not.

Watch the following video - I think it sums up the situation nicely. :-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o66FUc61MvU

muddergoose

8th Dec 2015, 00:34

When I try to access this site from TOR it does not seem to be able to do it. Have they blocked the browser from getting access to this site?

Arm out the window

8th Dec 2015, 00:59

Why do you think I defend them sometimes? It's all about prior planning, you know. You blokes are way behind the 8 ball now! :)

CAR42ZE

8th Dec 2015, 01:59

...And always have a background window open on the CASA jobs website!

Oh, wait - no, that'll flag up in some other departments/companies download of your metadata information. :)

Led Zep

8th Dec 2015, 02:28

"Led Zep, you're identified; verify medical history and online credit card transactions."

Squawk7700

8th Dec 2015, 04:00

With the proliferation of free wifi around the country like in Melbourne CBD, trains, buses, McDonalds and shopping centers, the value of metadata related to Internet browsing will soon be dininished.

De_flieger

8th Dec 2015, 08:54

Watch the following video - I think it sums up the situation nicely. :-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o66FUc61MvU Very clever :8
Not enough people spoke out against the metadata retention laws, because of the claim that they would only be used to stop terrorists and child abusers, and now everyone is stuck with them, with neither party likely to change them for fear that the other side will say they are "wanting to make life easy for the terrorists". I was against them and I guess you probably were too Sbaker, but as you say, we got them anyway. (The Greens opposed them, but apparently they are a bunch of filthy commie so-and-so's :E that noone likes around here).

With the proliferation of free wifi around the country like in Melbourne CBD, trains, buses, McDonalds and shopping centers, the value of metadata related to Internet browsing will soon be dininished. With the proliferation of free wifi around the country, the value of metadata will be greatly increased - your uniquely identifiable device logged on at certain WiFi access points, showing where you were, when you were there, what you looked up, how long you stayed and even where you moved around in certain situations. That's what they are wanting to store (among many other things).

zanthrus

8th Dec 2015, 09:30

Who gives a ****? Really.

Squawk7700

8th Dec 2015, 11:15

With the proliferation of free wifi around the country, the value of metadata will be greatly increased - your uniquely identifiable device logged on at certain WiFi access points, showing where you were, when you were there, what you looked up, how long you stayed and even where you moved around in certain situations. That's what they are wanting to store (among many other things).

Quite the contrary. Do you think the bad guys will be using their own device for such activities? No. Do you think that McDonalds keep a record of all MAC addresses of all devices that accesses their free wifi? No. Do you think that a smart criminal (if in fact there is such a thing) will use a device that can be linked to their identity? No.

Who cares? Good question... If you've for nothing to worry about then this would be no problem, but just imagine if you made a mistake in your logbook and wrote down Melbourne to Sydney when in fact you actually travelled to Brisbane and CASA does their logbook trolling on you, combined with a review of your metadata???

De_flieger

8th Dec 2015, 11:44

Do I think the bad guys will be using their own devices? No. The seriously bad guys have many different encrypted or hidden methods of communication, this will only affect the rest of us. Do I think McDonalds keep a record of every MAC address that accesses their WiFi? Probably not, maybe, but its certainly not impossible, and if you access Telstra WiFi or similar then you can expect it to be retained. The MAC address isnt the only thing that necessarily identifies a user or device either.

Sunfish

8th Dec 2015, 19:08

Does McDonalds keep a record of every MAC address? No! MsDonalds ISP does!

Using an untraceable second hand laptop will work….until you visit your email account or attempt to contact your friends with it. Or when the machine with the invisible MAC address is always used where your iPhone is - travels with the iPhone in fact.

Then of course there is the little matter of your Ozrunways running on your iPad…. If it is accessing the Bom, Naips or the Ozrunways traffic server then "ping".

wishiwasupthere

8th Dec 2015, 19:41

The paranoia is high in this thread. I hear if you wrap your phone in tin foil you'll be right.

outnabout

8th Dec 2015, 22:55

I am not sure about metadata, data storage and surveillance, and CASA's use of all of this. (They want to know that I spend my own time watching Youtube cats or live streaming C&W radio from America? Their lives are sadder than my pay packet.)

However, I do remember reading an accident report from the States, where the cause of the RPT flight accident was due to pilot fatigue. Part of the evidence presented was the co-pilots use of mobile phone to search social media sites and to text, during the allotted rest period. I also seem to remember that when an Aerocommander went in off Horn Island in 2011, mobile phone records and bank transaction records were used to track his activity the night prior to the accident. No sleep records were listed in the ATSB report, which showed no conclusions but speculated that fatigue was an issue.

I was only wondering a few days ago - with the rise in individuals wearing Fitbits, which record movement and sleep debt, how long before we see the information recorded on one of these devices presented in a coroner's court. Your Honour, the device records show that at the time of the accident the accused was six hours sleep deprived, and no significant movement was recorded in the four hours prior to the accident, indicating that the accused did not take advantage of the mandated rest break every two hours........in my opinion, this is not just aviation, but also applies to truckies, and (I think) will shortly include Joe Bloggs, driving over Xmas holidays....

Ovation

8th Dec 2015, 23:44

It's not so much the surveillance powers, it's the way they can be misused and the limited power an individual has when they are.

The NSW ICAC were eavesdropping on NSW prosecutor Margaret Cuneen (http://https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margaret_Cunneen) SC since 2008, and in 2014 they acted on a lighthearted cell phone conversation with a crash repairer to charge her with attempting to pervert the course of justice (it was not revealed why they were eavesdropping in the first place).

CASA have in the past been selective about who they prosecute, and failed dismally to act on others who deserved to be.

Recall their handling of John Quadrio and then Barry Hempel.

The Levine report into the ICAC described their actions as "arrogant", "unlawful" and "abuse of power".

Does any of this sound like the CASA you know?

Would you trust them to know who you communicate with by cell phone and what websites you visit?

De_flieger

9th Dec 2015, 02:04

Apparently the Australian Crime Commission was monitoring the phone of a tow truck driver suspected of links to organised crime, and when they heard the conversation between someone using the tow truck driver's phone after a car accident and Margaret Cunneen, they passed it onto ICAC. Margaret Cunneen says she was joking about telling her son's girlfriend to fake chest pains (http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/margaret-cunneen-says-she-was-joking-about-telling-her-sons-girlfriend-to-fake-chest-pains-20151208-glipkb.html)
(Apologies for the thread drift)

Pinky the pilot

9th Dec 2015, 06:03

The Levine report into the ICAC described their actions as "arrogant", "unlawful" and "abuse of power".

Does any of this sound like the CASA you know?

Would you trust them to know who you communicate with by cell phone and what websites you visit?

Would I trust the C**** Against Sensible Aviation with anything??

About as much as I trust any Politician:mad: of any political persuasion. Which is less than I would trust a Tiger Snake.

Shagpile

9th Dec 2015, 10:53

Wow there are a lot of inaccuracies floating about on this thread. If you're going to criticise metadata, be sure to be technically accurate about what is being collected.

http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2015/10/everything-youve-been-told-about-data-retention-is-wrong/

Firstly with Internet, all they're logging is 'Person X had the IP address <something> between time A and time B'. That's it. No browsing history or tin foiled hat. ISP's have been doing this for decades for billing purposes. The legislation sets a min standard to make sure they all do it and retain records for 2 years.

For phone calls and SMS, the data retained is the same as it always has been since the 1920's - Person X called person Y for 5 minutes on this date. The legislation standardises a minimum requirement of what to store and sets a 2 year time before you can delete it.

The intent of metadata laws are for when the fuzz take down a kiddy fiddler computer and get a list of IP addresses on it. They can then quickly pair those with known accounts in Australia. It doesn't work the other way around; they can't surveil your porn fetishes and notify the convent about you.

CASA has always been able to access this information (via a warrant) so they will have no extra than normal. According to the original article, last year CASA had 11 warrants for this stuff.

So do I think it's a good idea granting CASA access to this? Nope. As this thread has demonstrated, there is already a large fracture and mistrust between the safety regulator and the industry it is regulating. I would not consider 11 warrant requests for metadata a difficult task for an organisation with ~ 850+ staff.

If the benefits of metadata access are just some internal efficiencies, I would suggest it would be in CASA's best interest to go through the courts via warrants for access to data. That way, they could move forwards to bridge the gap and try to adopt a relationship with the aviation industry that supports a positive risk free (generative is the buzz word) reporting/safety culture.

That said, if CASA deem timely access to metadata is an overwhelming benefit to aviation safety (for example preventing a crime?), then Skidmore should clearly communicate the reasons behind why they want access.

Edit: I'm actually not an expert on this so if I have any facts incorrect I'll be happy to change them (and my opinion!)

aroa

9th Dec 2015, 12:03

AS they do unto you so you the citizen should have the same rights.

Mr xxxxxx a CAsA person has committed criminal offence/s. I would like to check his data to see what else has been going on, bit of fishing for info, might lead up a few interesting alleys, might even prevent another crime, might even get a better handle on the issue in question.

Since CAsA condones criminality within its ranks we'll have our work cut out for us.

Would certainly help CAsA in their attempts to denigrate any victim...see their standard statement..'why would you defend this person, we know stuff that you dont know' And with metadata ...and then some. !!:mad::mad:

Scary what they can do already...., now it gets really scary.:eek:

And why is the impression of the "privacy" bit, seem to be only a one way street ?

Are we on the road to National Socialism, as our rights and liberties get steadily eroded.? Its how it all began 80 years ago.
Scary !!

dubbleyew eight

9th Dec 2015, 15:24

Shagpile

9th Dec 2015, 17:34

shagpile, since you are full bottle on data collection, please tell us what the secret base out from geraldton is doing?
I heard that it monitored and retained a copy of all internet traffic in australia.
of course I'm a roll of alfoil short of a hat but you get that.
W8

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_Communication_Station_Harold_E._Holt

That one?

I'm not a supporter at all of mass surveillance -- worst case just look at what this kind of stuff could be used for if Donald Trump gets elected. But it's important to understand what is being collected so you can take appropriate measures and understand what protection a VPN can and cannot provide.

Squawk7700

9th Dec 2015, 19:05

Shaggy, what about SMS and email? How are they finding out what people have been typing into google searches and Siri? The truth is out there...

Shagpile

9th Dec 2015, 19:57

Shaggy, what about SMS and email? How are they finding out what people have been typing into google searches and Siri? The truth is out there...

That's Snowden & Julian Assange territory (nobody knows) - that's not what CASA are asking for.

Frank Arouet

9th Dec 2015, 20:36

CAsA, (you know), fkuc everything.

But actually, CAsA know fkuc all!

Snakecharma

9th Dec 2015, 21:14

Shagpile, no not Exmouth, that is a fair bit further north.

If you look on the maps there is a restricted area just to the east of Geraldton.

I can't remember who the controlling authority is for that restricted area, but it is a monitoring station of some form, lots of satellite dishes etc.

Biggles_in_Oz

10th Dec 2015, 04:20

As Ultralights, De_flieger and others have noted, metadata is powerfull.
It can be used to create any almost any scenario desired by those in the shadows.

The situation is not helped when you look at https://www.ag.gov.au/NationalSecurity/DataRetention/Pages/Default.aspx
where on one hand (in the sample datasets) they state that For internet access services, the Bill explicitly excludes anything that is web-browsing history or could amount to web-browsing history, such as a URL or IP address to which a subscriber has browsed. yet on the other hand they want any other service or device identifier known to the provider that uniquely identifies the destination of the communication. which effectively means the destination IP address, hence they then have a pretty good idea of your web-browsing history.

If CASA wants the metadata then they really should state why they want such easy access to it.
Convenience (to CASA, by not having to get an actual warrant) is not an acceptable reason.

dubbleyew eight

11th Dec 2015, 10:29

shagpile, no it isn't harold e holt.

it is out from geraldton, down toward dongara.

I kid you not, while it was being built, there on the perth to geraldton highway was a green and white roadside sign pointing off to the west that read
< SECRET BASE
I have a photo of it somewhere.
anyway it monitors all of the australian internet traffic. all of it.

the other night they would have seen me download the pdf's for a home made gun. 3 different designs.

all go ooo ahhhh naughty now...

what they don't know is that I thought all 3 designs were crap. :E

huge sigh of relief from everyone......

it is all bull**** folks. the slimy green world of spying isn't worth the effort.
W8.

jas24zzk

13th Dec 2015, 11:28

Bigglez said:
If CASA wants the metadata then they really should state why they want such easy access to it.
Convenience (to CASA, by not having to get an actual warrant) is not an acceptable reason.

I totally agree. If they are conducting an investigation, a judge will not hesitate to grant them the warrant within 5 minutes.

By allowing them unrestricted access, you will actually allow them to impose an new cost impost on the Aviator/Aviation traveller.

Unrestricted access means they will create a new 'Internet Activity Monitoring Department" that will employ countless IT specialists on specialist pay...or even worse subcontrators, tasked with the never ending mission of trolling metadata for an event that MIGHT have happened.

I think there are only 3 organisations that needs unrestricted access.
The ATO
ASIO
Centrelink
and the AFP. State Police can request AFP to access for an individual investigation.

Ex FSO GRIFFO

14th Dec 2015, 02:30

This 'Secret Base'...??

Yatharagga: Satellite Laser Ranging (SLR) Station - CarnarvonSpace (http://www.carnarvonspace.com/wiki/index.php?title=Yatharagga:_Satellite_Laser_Ranging_(SLR)_St ation)

Otherwise known as MOBLAS5 ..... Formerly 'Yarragadee'......

Beware the 'LASER'....

Cheers:ok:

Captain Nomad

14th Dec 2015, 04:57

That's R131. There is also another site operated by the Department of Defence located closer to Geraldton however. There is good perimeter lighting around the site at night also - quite visible. A good cluster of mushrooms too. Maybe he is referring to this one?

http://nautilus.org/publications/books/australian-forces-abroad/defence-facilities/australian-defence-satellite-communications-station-kojarena/

LHLisa

29th Dec 2015, 22:53

It's a bit of a crap situation .
We are all people ... Human ... With foibles etc ... So rushing to judge anyone for being human eg not sleeping well enough , using social media to "relax " etc is going to end in a crap set of circumstances .
The science ( social and otherwise) , and politics and work place safety are not currently matched up.

Biggles_in_Oz

18th Jan 2016, 20:28

A list of who has applied for non-warrant metadata access has been released.
Yep., CASA is there.

List of agencies applying for metadata access without warrant released by Government - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-01-18/government-releases-list-of-agencies-applying-to-access-metadata/7095836)
Over 60 agencies apply to snoop into your metadata | Crikey (http://www.crikey.com.au/2016/01/18/over-60-agencies-apply-to-snoop-into-your-metadata/)
These are the government agencies that want to see your metadata | Business Insider (http://www.businessinsider.com.au/these-are-the-government-agencies-who-want-to-see-your-metadata-2016-1)

Seeing outfits like 'RSPCA (Victoria)', 'Bankstown City Council', 'Australian Postal Corporation', 'National Measurement Institute' (who ????), 'Health Care Complaints Commission (NSW)', etc etc in that list, leads me to conclude that getting warrantless metadata access is going to be very easy for almost anybody.

Could someone please remind me what were the justifications/excuses for all this metadata retention and access ? was it preventing crime ?, terror prevention ?, protecting the children ?

Creepy Beard

18th Jan 2016, 20:41

Seeing outfits like 'RSPCA (Victoria)', 'Bankstown City Council', 'Australian Postal Corporation', 'National Measurement Institute' (who ????), 'Health Care Complaints Commission (NSW)', etc etc in that list, leads me to conclude that getting warrantless metadata access is going to be very easy for almost anybody.

Could someone please remind me what were the justifications/excuses for all this metadata retention and access ? was it preventing crime ?, terror prevention ?, protecting the children ?

I recently saw a rather balanced report on ABC television about Metadata, interestingly they had a few case studies of how it was being used by various Government and NGO organisations.

Bankstown Council successfully used metadata to prosecute a rubbish dumper who had dumped a whole tipper truck filled with soil right next to a nature reserve...I believe the photo in this article is of the offence in question:

Senate considers greater oversight for companies and councils accessing metadata without warrants - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation) (http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-10-07/companies-and-councils-accessing-metadata-without-warrants/5751402)

As for the RSPCA, I believe that they are hoping to use it in a similar vein to prosecute those who abandon or neglect animals.

This is not to say I don't have concerns about government and other organisations retaining metadata, it's just that there a most definitely legitimate uses.

kaz3g

18th Jan 2016, 22:29

There is a HUGE difference between the two positions.

Accessing meta data with a warrant, after satisfying a judge that the applicant has reasonable grounds to believe an offence has been committed and that, in all the circumstances a warrant is justified to allow the proposed intrusion, is very different to having open slather to search for these things because it might assist you to collect evidence in a fishing expedition.

This stuff was all about terrorism at the start and look where it seems to be heading now. If we sit back and apathetically allow each new incursion into our basic rights, we will end up with a national socialist form of government. Your vote is your only weapon but you need to use it NOW.

Kaz

Lead Balloon

18th Jan 2016, 22:37

Spot on, kaz. :D

topdrop

18th Jan 2016, 22:41

Your vote is your only weapon but you need to use it NOW.
Looks like we will all be voting for Nick's party or the Greens.

kaz3g

19th Jan 2016, 04:16

Use the power of your vote (and the votes of all those you can influence) to convince your local member he/she will be bereft of support if the proposals are enshrined in legislation.

You don't have to vote for a party you don't want to support; you just let the one you normally support know they risk losing it.

There are still some libertarians left in the LP but they need to know they aren't voices in the wilderness. Rudduck is one and his opinions are always well regarded. I think Sharman Stone is another who has spoken out against the policies of the fanatical Sydney right.

Kaz

bankrunner

19th Jan 2016, 23:27

I can't remember who the controlling authority is for that restricted area, but it is a monitoring station of some form, lots of satellite dishes etc.

The site is called the Australian Defence Satellite Communications Station.

Does exactly what it says on the tin; acts as a military satcom ground station.

Military satellite communications | DST Group (http://www.dsto.defence.gov.au/projects/military-satellite-communications)

Ultralights

25th Jan 2016, 04:45

Looks like CASA's application to Metadata access has ben denied! :ok:

"Attorney-General keeps CASA out of telco metadata loop
The Attorney-General’s Department has rejected an application from the Civil Aviation Safety Authority for access to reams of customer telecommunications data stored in Canberra’s controversial data retention regime.

The retention laws require all telcos to store customers’ telephone and internet records for a minimum of two years.

The scheme also forces telcos to retain metadata about customers, including the time, identity, billing information, general locations and IP addresses of the senders and recipients — but not the content of communications.

Under previous laws, a range of agencies, from the RSPCA to local councils, could apply for unfettered access to the data.

However, the new laws reduced access from 83 agencies down to 21 specified core criminal law enforcement and security agencies, including the Australian Federal Police, ASIO, state police agencies, and Border Force. Despite the reduction, some 61 government agencies — CASA included — applied for warrantless access to the data. A list of agencies applying for access was revealed this week through a Freedom of Information request.

But CASA has confirmed that its application was rejected by the Attorney-General’s Department.

It previously had access to telecommunications data under the provisions of the Telecommunications (Interception and Access) Act. In the past year CASA applied for access on 11 separate occasions to aid its investigations into criminal aviation offences.

“Data was used in investigations to confirm other information, provide new information or eliminate people from investigations,” CASA said.

Under the legislation, the Attorney-General can, via legislative instrument, declare agencies “criminal law enforcement agencies” to gain access to metadata. But CASA has not sought such a ruling from the A-G’s office."