Why have you refused to fly?

[autoflight]

During 40 years of flying I have refused to fly on 2 occasions when I believe other crews would have flown. One was missing essential documentation and the other was a repetitive technical issue which turned out to be serious flight control damage.

I would like to hear from those who have felt the need to make serious decisions about not flying, when management and other crews consider the flights should have proceeded.

[Mach E Avelli]

One particular operator employed mostly contractor pilots who got paid by the day. This operator repeatedly gave us unrealistic schedules which always blew out beyond duty limits.
I had more than one argument with a fellow contractor who saw no harm in busting duty and minimum rest limits. He considered the duty and rest requirements were for pussies. He also wanted the money, as did I, and did not get that if we had an incident or got audited the Company would hang us out to dry and no more money would be forthcoming once we had no licences.
Anyway, on several occasions I pulled delays of up to 24 hours to meet the rest requirements after 14 hour days which were always 'planned' to be 12 hours or less.
They never changed their ways with the nonsensical schedules but interestingly never challenged my delays either and I was never shortchanged on payday.
So, I think it was a case of the operator simply over promising the client (who was equally complicit in accepting the schedules knowing them to be pure fantasy) and hoping that the crews would suck it up.

[BARKINGMAD]

Back in the months following PA103 at Lockerbie, at a transit stop 10 mins flying time from base and we had a discrepancy between bods aboard and bags in the hold.

Capt wanted to close up and push off to get home, rules stated it was bags on the ramp and pax out to ident them before departure.

I pointed this out and that if he wished to go he'd be flying solo.

Job done properly as a result, though F/D atmosphere was interesting for the short hop to base! :=

[RAT 5]

A charter company used to bend planning rules. Unrealistic schedules squeezed into the FTL's. That was the culture. Then they scheduled a 10 hour Greek Island out & back duty, coming home at 07.00. That same evening, report 21.00, they added a 15hour heavy crew out & back Africa night duty. The onboard crew rest area was a complete joke and impossible to gain rest/sleep. Pilots complained about this combination, but still did it. I was rostered it and refused. I said I'd do one or the other, but not both. I went to discuss it with the CP. I said it was impossible for me to sleep twice in 14 hours during the day time. If I was not rested and fit for the 2nd night flight I'd call myself off the flight. Did he want this at the last minute. He agreed and the combined schedule was removed. Other pilots wondered how this had happened, and also why it had been planned in the first place. No matter how/why, just stand up for common sense.
I can understand that in this day of 'pay by the hour contractors' it would be a lucrative combination over 2 night duties & 3 days; but the same payment could be earned over 3 proper day flights. My strength was the CP saw the common-sense and also understood my resistance. I expect he was a rare animal.

[Genghis the Engineer]

As a young Flight Test Engineer I was running the performance side of some Jaguar trials at Warton. Heavy jet, lots of stores.

I got rather unhappy at the realisation that if we had a single engine failure, the only option would be to clear the aircraft and fly away, which would mean dumping a couple of tons of practice bombs straight through the caravan park off the end of the runway.

Chief Test Pilot told me he didn't care, thanked me for doing the maths, and authorised it anyway. In my older age, I see that maybe he had a point about caravan parks.


Since then, loads of serviceability / weather reasons I've refused to fly. It's what we do, surely - but then I don't work in a pax carriage environment, so the pressures (and resources) are different.

G

[Denti]

Usually i refuse to fly because of insufficient rest times (especially between union work, which is company planned duty, and flight duty). It is easy enough in my company, simply call in unfit to fly and thats that, no questions asked. Had to threaten a captain once with not flying to get the aircraft deiced with both ice and snow on the wings. Interesting atmosphere on the flightdeck afterwards.

[Long Haul]

We were scheduled to fly at night, west coast USA to Europe when the plane came in with this complaint: "during acceleration after takeoff a loud scraping noise in the nose was heard, followed by failure of both weather radar systems." Checking the book, the same complaint had occurred on each of the previous three legs, one being at night over the entire length of Africa. As a fix, the antenna had been replaced at our home base, but to no avail. We asked the local contract engineer what he was planning to do and received the reply that he was going to replace the antenna. I tried to politely ask why that would help, considering that this had already been done twelve hours previously, but he brusquely said "I got a telex from your home base telling me to replace the antenna, so that's what I'm going to do." Anyway, we tested the radar during taxi out, it worked fine, so we took off, and sure enough, at about three hundred knots the whole system literally ground to a stop. Now it was winter, so we weren't expecting to need the radar much, but at this point I thought, enough is enough, so I convinced the captain and other co-pilot that this was not the way professional airlines operate (weather radar is required at night acc the MEL), and we dumped tons and tons of fuel and returned to our departure point. On the ground they opened the radome and even I saw what the problem was - there was a big greasy stripe across the insulation layer where it had been coming loose under the increased dynamic pressure of high airspeed and trapping the antenna so it couldn't move. Four hours later, with a new white nose we again left for home, tired but glad to have stood up to the "get the airplane moving again at all costs " mentality.

[despegue]

Long-haul,

And this decision to "prove something" cost the environment, company and passengers heaps...
Better would have been to not accept the maintenance solution and demand an inspection of the radome in the first place.

Was there TS/CB forcast for your route/ diversion routes/ airports that night?

[FE Hoppy]

Unserviceability despite the captain and then the company CEO pressing me to take the aircraft anyway.
Left the company shortly afterwards.

[Tinstaafl]

I've refused to fly a number of times.

One was mid-trip on an out & back charter. Pax didn't show for the return at the agreed time. Waited a couple of hours. Phoned them multiple times. Texted them. Finally answered and said they were on the way. Waited more hours and was running out of duty time. Phoned again. The phone was answered & then hung up on me. During that brief window I heard loud bar/party sounds.

Meanwhile the office was also trying to contact them. Eventually they arrived back at the airport but I was out of duty hours. I explained that I was no longer permitted to fly and that we'd have to stay overnight.

I believe the hotel bill was added to the customers final bill. Served them right.

I've also declined trips due unservicabilities or weather.

[RAT 5]

I heard of this story, and it showed the strength of conviction needed to send a message: discretion extension is at the behest of the captain/crew NOT the company. Sensible rostering is very necessary, both for efficiency of schedule and human factors.
5th day, running up to max accumulated duty, and a long out/back night flight on the last night. Crew was tired due lack of sleep in hotel during the afternoon. Nigh impossible. Accumulated sleep deprivation was having effect. The departure was delayed sufficiently that there would not be enough time to complete the return sector without full discretion. Captain told OP's at departure that they would not complete the return but night stop to rest. Please organise hotac and inform the agent and pax well in advance. A/c arrived at destination and agent started boarding. Captain was very displeased etc. etc. and told the agent to inform the company they would operate the return until out of FTL and land en-route to take minimum rest. He nominated the landing airfield, which was a company route destination, so the company could position a SBY crew ASAP. He landed to find no crew had been arranged. The company called the crew's bluff and lost. He'd told them twice; and this was after discussing the 5 day roster as being unreasonable BEFORE he'd started it. Just how deaf can some people be? Being a union airline helped too. Hate to think how guys survive when on their own and hanging in the wind.

[Basil]

1. Taking over air taxi from boss noticed tech log from previous sector flown by him not signed.
Taxied round to office with pax on board, shut down and went looking for boss. Eventually found him at my aircraft.
Bas: "Tech log isn't signed."
Boss: "You said you'd take it without signing."
Bas: (Smelling huge rat) "No, I didn't and if it isn't signed I ain't taking the aircraft!"
Unseemly row develops in front of pax resulting in Bas removing flight bag and departing on foot. Boss flew aircraft. No idea what pax thought.

2. Staying at overseas hotel and checked in at nearby contractor's office for flight in big jet. BJ had diverted but we weren't told until we'd checked in. Returned to hotel. Boss, in UK, suggested we forget checking in and start duty period when decision had been made about how to handle situation.
Bas pointed out that, if we had a totally unrelated incident, CAA would uncover original check in time and we'd go to jail. Bas won.


On other occasions, attempting to keep the show on the road:
One, I won't discuss, which required some intense grovelling to avoid being 'spoken to'.
One where I inadvertently went over max discretion and boss received snotogram from CAA.

[togathrust]

Fatigue due to legal but thoroughly exhausting EASA FTL's.

[bugged on the right]

After 35 years of flying I have retired and will not fly again. The War on Terror has become so outrageously stupid that I now take the train or drive on holidays. The whole thing is a theatrical farce and the British are the utter worst of it.

[No Fly Zone]

Only partly off topic. One or two others got it, but I'm sure they know it. I prefer using language a bit softer than "Refused," because it is less threatening to the other party. In this situation, I'd try to smile and use the word "Decline." Over many years, now long past, I declined three times. One for a major Mx issue and two for weather related problems. While the employer/client does carry some weight, our butts are always on the airplane and reservation of said part has always been very important to me. Try to be polite, but do not compromise your professional standards.:ok: