Practice AUTOLAND

[Feather44]

Good Day All,

I would like your opinion about something I've read on this website.

"Does a crew willing to practice an Autoland in Cat I weather must request/be authorized by ATC?"

As far as I know (at least logically) yes.

But I have read some pilots (mainly from UK & AMS) saying it is not mandatory.

I insist on the regulation side, not how it works in day to day life.

Thanks for your consideration.

[fujii]

In Australia when conducting an autoland in CAT I or better conditions, pilots SHOULD notify ATC.

ATC will advise the ILS critical and sensitive areas (as appropriate) are not protected.

[LMX]

I once tried alerting ATC that we were doing a practice autoland at a certain major airport in Catalunya. This was met with:

"Confirm you want to make a DME approach?" (What's a DME approach?)

After landing:

"Did you have a problem with the outer land?"

As I wouldn't want to confuse the poor controllers like that again, needless to say we won't be telling them if we are doing a practice autoland anymore, at least not at this airport!

[vector4fun]

In Australia when conducting an autoland in CAT I or better conditions, pilots SHOULD notify ATC.

ATC will advise the ILS critical and sensitive areas (as appropriate) are not protected.

Same in the US. Be a shame to bend something because a JD mower was in the glideslope critical area.


FAA 7110.65V p 3-7-5 2b

b. Operators commonly conduct “coupled” or
“autoland” approaches to satisfy maintenance,
training, or reliability program requirements.
Promptly issue an advisory if the critical area will not
be protected when an arriving aircraft advises that a
“coupled,” “CATIII,” “autoland,” or similar type
approach will be conducted and the weather indicates
a reported ceiling of 800 feet or more, or the visibility
is 2 miles or more.
PHRASEOLOGY−
ILS CRITICAL AREA NOT PROTECTED.

[Feather44]

Ok, thank you guys

[Gonzo]

Vector4fun,

Your second quote implies that the ILS critical areas are not protected in normal cat I ops.

What are the dimensions of the typical ILS critical areas in the US?

[vector4fun]

ILS Critical Areas are defined in FAA Order 6750.16 here:

http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/orders_notices/index.cfm/go/document.information/documentid/1024367



Look at the section starting at page 1-8.

We may be talking past each other, in my vernacular, Cat I ops would be Cat I ILS, generally 200 x 1/2. We protected the critical areas whenever the weather was less than 800 x 2.

I'm happily retired from monitoring John Deeres.

[Gonzo]

Thanks.

So there are weather criteria above which you don't protect the critical areas for cat I approaches?

We have to protect the critical areas at all times, regardless of weather. We only protect the sensitive areas when RVR is less than 600m to permit cat II/III approaches.

And just to clarify, your 200x1/2 is 200ft and 1/2mile etc?

[fujii]

In Australia, the GP and LOC critical areas are protected at all times including visual conditions. E.g. no works vehicles, mowers etc. Protection doesn't apply in the case of a preceding landing or departing being in the critical area.

[Gonzo]

We have to protect the critical areas, no exceptions for previous landing traffic etc.

[vector4fun]

Gonzo, that's correct, in weather better than 800x2, we didn't have to protect critical areas,

HOWEVER!

It was never really a problem for me because, if there was equipment lingering in the critical areas, (like a mower) we switched that ILS off because it would cause the monitors to alarm, and eventually shut the system down. The 800x2 rule usually only came into play when, say, an aircraft had penetrated the glideslope critical area while holding for departure, and then an arrival announced they would do a coupled approach. Sometimes an airport vehicle would be in the area for a short period, say to change a light bulb.

That's just my experience, as you know, airport and taxiway layouts vary greatly.

[Gonzo]

The document you linked to implies that the critical areas should be protected at all times, was the lack of requirement to protect in good weather detailed in local instructions?

Did you protect anything extra for cat II/III approaches?

Should explain all the questions; I'm part of the EASA and ICAO all weather ops groups, and also have taken part in the FAA AWOHARC group. Lots of inconsistencies between how the USA and the rest of the world conducts ILS protection and the definitions therein! Trying to get to the bottom of it all.

[vector4fun]

No, not local, all was in the Controller's Handbook, 7110.65 pp 3-7-5.

http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Order/7110.65V.pdf

There does appear to be some small adjustments to the language since I last worked, but nothing significant.