Transporting a shotgun to Republic of Ireland

[30csl]

Has anyone done this recently for a weekend trip? I have a European Licence but wondered if I needed to do anything else? I presume I will have to declare it at the other end? Any experiences on this would be great to hear.

[ChickenHouse]

What an idea.
You need to come back home again or is imprisonment ok?

;-)

[PA28181]

Isn't a shotgun a "Weapon of War" and barred from light aircraft under the ANO?

[ChickenHouse]

Isn't a shotgun a "Weapon of War" and barred from light aircraft under the ANO?
..........
It is.
..........
So far for the legal part.

[piperboy84]

Probably be less hassle to tell the UK government that you're a Syrian "freedom fighter" (Read: Al Queda) taking a holiday in Ireland, they'll airdrop you all the weapons you need. Don't for gods sake tell them your a law abiding UK citizen trying to enjoy your hobby or they'll have you jumping thru hoops.

[Martin_123]

Generally you need to call the local Garda station

Taking your Firearms into the Republic of Ireland - Countryside Alliance Ireland (http://www.countrysideallianceireland.org/forms-shooting/taking-your-firearms-into-the-republic-of-ireland)

however, assuming you'll be arriving in your aircraft, you also have to consider AIP: http://www.iaa.ie/safe_reg/iaip/Published%20Files/AIP%20Files/GEN/EI_GEN_1_4_EN.pdf

[PA28181]

Presume you are leaving from Uk to Ire, then it looks like you need this:-

https://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/SRG2813Issue02.pdf

Oh and pay the appropriate fee of course....

[Silvaire1]

It's rather difficult to imagine how a shotgun could be considered 'weapon of war' by any definition, including the one referenced in link above!

"Under the 1973 Order, “Munitions of War” means material, weapons and ammunition designed for use in warfare and includes parts of, or for such weapons and ammunitions"

Shotguns are not designed for use in warfare. How ridiculous.

[Wageslave]

You'd need to talk to the Garda and ascertain what customs/immigration/police procedures to be complied with. Looks like the ling has been supplied above.

I am pretty sure there is nothing to do at this end as you are already licenced to hold the weapon but again a call to your local firearms dept would never go amiss.

Hard to credit that anyone thinks a sporting shotgun is a weapon of war, the mind boggles. (and weeps) Utterly bizarre.

[Martin_123]

Silvaire1 you have to understand Ireland is very restrictive when it comes to possession of firearms (or even fireworks for that matter), handguns are generally illegal, shotguns are allowed but with lots of "buts"

definition of war can be very fuzzy in general and a lot of it depends on the context. When you look at the difficult history of Ireland and the conflicts that have happened, you may very well assume that shotgun IS a munitions of war.

[Silvaire1]

I think the key phrase in the Irish law, which I'd imagine is derived from some international transport of arms treaty is "designed for use in warfare." A shotgun is not designed for that purpose. Words matter, and I'd assume they were chosen careful in this instance in which the issue is transporting, not owning, a legally permitted shotgun.

(PS A 9 year old former schoolmate of mine had a permanent back injury from being shot in Ireland, so I'm not unaware of the history)

[Above The Clouds]

Isn't a shotgun a "Weapon of War" and barred from light aircraft under the ANO?

No it is not.

A shotgun as are civilian rifles are defined as sporting weapons and can be carried perfectly legally in an aircraft with the ammunition.

If travelling with an airline then the ammunition must be kept separately from the weapon. Shotgun cartridges can also be carried as checkin luggage if in the original packaging and labeled as 1.4 dangerous goods up to a maximum of 500.

In your own private aircraft do what you want, put them were you want, just notify the authorities what you are carrying so they can be checked on arrival, really all they check is that the guns are registered to you (although still not a show stopper so long as you have a licence) and the serial numbers match your licence.

[Solar]

Martin 123
I know of several Free State gun owners who shoot legal hand guns at our gun club in the black north where it's legal to own hand guns.
I do understand that there is increasing pressure to restrict ownership of hand guns in the South (gives our hard working politicians something to focus on) and the hoops they have to jump through are many and smaller than the ones in the North, if possible.
Not a 100% sure but I think the transport of shotguns is not really a big deal as long as the paperwork is in order.
The fact that it would be arriving in a light aircraft might well be yet another layer of paperwork though.

[30csl]

Hi all,


many thanks for all the replies. As the post above states I should have said that it is indeed a sporting shotgun. I will contact the Garda where I will be landing and see what they say on the matter as I imagine as some have said returning to the UK should not be an issue.


Thanks

[Flyingmac]

I was talking the other day to the crew of a large helicopter.
It had come in for fuel prior to picking up a shooting party and taking them home.


I asked them who the third crew member was, as he looked a little out of place. He was security/minder for the two million quids worth of shotguns on board.:eek:


Bet the owners had 'Pilot' watches to match.:)

[ChickenHouse]

As the post above states I should have said that it is indeed a sporting shotgun.
Would the turkeys agree it's not a weapon'a'war?

[BillieBob]

The opinion of the turkeys is irrelevant. The following guidance, although taken from Part-CAT, summarises the EASA opinion as it applies to all aircraft operations.

GM1 CAT.GEN.MPA.160 Carriage of sporting weapons and ammunition

SPORTING WEAPONS

(a) In accordance with Regulation (EC) No 300/2008 sporting weapons may be carried on board an aircraft, in a place that is not inaccessible, if the required security conditions in accordance with national laws have been fulfilled and authorisation has been given by the States involved.

(b) There is no internationally agreed definition of sporting weapons. In general, it may be any weapon that is not a weapon of war or munitions of war. Sporting weapons include hunting knives, bows and other similar articles. An antique weapon, which at one time may have been a weapon of war or munitions of war, such as a musket, may now be regarded as a sporting weapon.

(c) A firearm is any gun, rifle or pistol that fires a projectile.

(d) The following firearms are generally regarded as being sporting weapons:
(1) those designed for shooting game, birds and other animals;
(2) those used for target shooting, clay-pigeon shooting and competition shooting, providing the weapons are not those on standard issue to military forces; and
(3) airguns, dart guns, starting pistols, etc.

(e) A firearm, which is not a weapon of war or munitions of war, should be treated as a sporting weapon for the purposes of its carriage on an aircraft.

[irish seaplane]

Where's the shooting on? .... now that the legals have been cleared up. I quite fancied flying into Eggesford for the shoot they have there. I wonder are there many shoots you could fly into, or adjacent too?

Irish

[30csl]

Hi, this one is in Castle Howard estate in Wicklow. That Eggesford looks like a great idea. Is it still available?

[N-Jacko]

30csl,

Ignore the above twaddle about weapons of war, but beware national variations in firearms regulations.

Note that you may need additional permit(s) as well as your EFP. For instance, to bring any firearm, including an air gun, to Northern Ireland you need prior permission from the PSNI.

The rest of the U.K. requires a visitor's permit as well as an EFP to bring sporting arms from abroad.

To complicate matters, what is an uncontrolled firearm or accessory in one country may be controlled or prohibited in another.

Conclusion: ask your host and/or a firearms dealer and/or local police for guidance. PM if you wish.

Jacko
RFD 108, Dumfries & Galoway

P.S. One should also be aware of export licensing, whereby even items which are not controlled by national firearms laws may be subject to strict export control. Accompanied sporting firearms are generally covered by a UK open general export licence, but it's as well to read the licence and be aware of its conditions.

[Romeo Tango]

So .... having read the above I would like to know:

If I fly between 2 private strips in England/Scotland/Wales do I need anyone's permission to carry a licensed shotgun/rifle on the back seat? Apart maybe from the landowner(s).

[John R81]

Only the pilot and (if different) the owner of the aircraft. Just don't forget your firearms / shotgun certificate

[N-Jacko]

RT,
Assuming GA in a private G-reg:

Don't just chuck your scattergun on the back seat. It should be unloaded and in a locked case, attached (even temporarily) to the aircraft (for instance by means of a cycle lock). This also ensures compliance with part 2 of the security condition on your SGC or FAC.

Section 20 of the Firearms Act 1968 effectively requires that you should have PPR so that you are not "a trespasser", but you are under no obligation to disclose the nature of your cargo to any third party.

Ammo is a different story; up to 5 kg per pax is allowed in checked baggage, whatever that means for a light aircraft with no pax...

How much of the above is practically enforceable may be a matter for others to judge, but licensed gun owners are, in principle, law-abiding folk.