Angry Air France union protesters storm HQ; Air France execs 'forced to flee'

[peekay4]

(Link to BBC video (http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-34441238))

Air France execs forced to flee after union protesters storm HQ meeting (USA Today) (http://www.usatoday.com/story/todayinthesky/2015/10/05/air-france-execs-forced-to-flee-after-union-protesters-storm-hq-meeting/73367714/):

Several Air France executives had to flee a meeting about mass job cuts after union protesters stormed the company's headquarters, according to multiple media reports from the scene.

The Assocated Press reports one of its photographers witnessed "about a hundred activists rush the building" after they broke through a gate. "Shortly afterward two high-level managers fled, one bare-chested and the other with his shirt and suit jacket shredded," AP adds.

http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/6b05010c9fb39b0d32d9185565e889a705ca53e2/c=294-0-4890-3456&r=x513&c=680x510/local/-/media/2015/10/05/USATODAY/USATODAY/635796325326270514-AFP-545047160.jpg

[ExDubai]

One of those Managers was Xavier Broseta, member of the executive board and responsible for HR :E

[peekay4]

Unfortunately this may have negative repercussions, even outside of AF.

Broseta and Air France Chief Executive Frederic Gagey had been outlining a drastic cost cutting plan, described by the company as "Plan B" after it failed to persuade its pilots to accept a less radical one earlier this year.

Violent protests by workers are commonplace in France, where the population has a long tradition of taking the law into its own hands. This year, as the country struggles to come out of an economic downturn, has seen many. ...

However, unlike the headline makers in some other disputes, pilots lack sympathy among the general public and the Socialist government.

Ground staff trade unions long ago accepted the company's original, less draconian, cost-saving regime, in contrast to the pilots, who staged a strike a year ago that cost the company 500 million euros ($560 million). ...

The main airline industry union FNAM also condemned the attack on Broseta calling it "outdated behavior".

Parent Air France-KLM said it planned to take legal action over "aggravated violence" carried out against its managers.

Read full article from Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/10/05/us-airfrance-employment-idUSKCN0RZ11C20151005).

[ExDubai]

I had today a discussion regarding what will be the future of the european flagg carriers. Frankly, the scenario doesn't look that good for me....

[wiggy]

I'll just mention, since this is Pprune, that it certainly appeared from the French TV pictures that I've seen that many of the rent-a-mob involved in this very nasty looking piece of direct action were carrying CGT banners, the CGT being a very large (largest?) French general workers union. There was no sign of any pilot's Union (e.g. SNPL) involvement.

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conf%C3%A9d%C3%A9ration_g%C3%A9n%C3%A9rale_du_travail

[skyship007]

Did the fence-man rip his own jacket, or offer the shirt off his own back as part of some new deal ??

[ibelieveicanfly]

Those who will be sacked can apply to EK...hiring at the moment

[ATC Watcher]

Apparently the situation was not as the media reports it I am told by people who where present. Situation is a bit more complicated with people and internal organisations fighting different agendas, but it is still a huge mess with a big fight with security staff, resulting 7 injured and one serious in coma.

[Consol]

Any EK guys watching and learning?

[Wirbelsturm]

I'll just mention, since this is PPRuNe, that it certainly appeared from the French TV pictures that I've seen that many of the rent-a-mob involved in this very nasty looking piece of direct action were carrying CGT banners, the CGT being a very large (largest?) French general workers union.

Like the Socialist Worker Party (SWP)? Rent a crowd? Surely not! :}

[Una Due Tfc]

Don't be fooled KLM has a grip on all labour costs.
KLM's pilots hardly yield anything else than some days off.
Once the truth comes out about the ridiculous new KLM pilot contract in which their junior pilots get (really) 190 miljon euros it will not last. Within a week the truth will come out.
Opportunistic hype that KLM's pilots are Saints and AF pilots the bully's is a cleverly staged display of the shrewd Dutch Pilot Union Board and management that doesn't dare to counter it.
Then the aggressive AF unions will not look so bad after all.

Since KLM are in profit I don't see why any of their staff should give up anything.

[fox niner]

(Thread creep)
So we go from bashing of AF executives to bashing of KLM union agreements in 12 posts!

[Una Due Tfc]

The whole industry is in a race to the bottom. Profitable companies need to be told where to go by unions if they are looking to reduce terms and conditions. Fewer and fewer new joiners in the industry get a wage capable of providing a decent living.

[Mick Stability]

Action - Reaction.

I love the French.

[Algol]

Me too!

Certainly when it comes to stuff like this I agree - NO SURRENDER,
These management pr@@ks are good at bullying, and they've destroyed this industry. O'Leary has set the standard, and they all intend to follow.

[Chronus]

According to some authoritative foreign press reports this was a lynching attempt. That is the headlines, with shocking pictures of airline executives, with their clothes in shreds, climbing fences and running for their lives. What could the public perception be of the aviation community as a whole. I am afraid not only does it bring the profession into disrepute but also puts an ugly stain on all the uniforms of all air crews seen in the halls of every airport terminal in the world. The best thing BALPA and other similar organisations can do is make a public statement announcing that they will never condone such behaviour by any of their members.

[deptrai]

The best thing BALPA and other similar organisations can do is make a public statement announcing that they will never condone such behaviour by any of their members.

no. the best thing is not to make statements. this has nothing to do with BALPA.

[Airbubba]

Those who will be sacked can apply to EK...hiring at the moment

Any EK guys watching and learning?

I ran into some ethanol enabled Ozmates in the crew lounge in Asia years ago who told me that they were going to get a pilot union going at Emirates and 'teach management a lesson'.

Like they did in the 1989 'Dispute' I suppose.

Never heard from them again...

[ExDubai]

O'Leary has set the standard, and they all intend to follow

This "privilege" belongs to Don Burr. O'Leary just copied it.

[fab777]

KLM need to get out of that mess pronto. They were profitable before joining, they're still profitable now, and yet the group as a whole has lost billions. Run!

FYI, AF is back to profit. They just want more, and they want AF pilots to pay for last year's strike, hence voluntary departure schemes for everybody except them being shown the door.

[Una Due Tfc]

FYI, AF is back to profit. They just want more, and they want AF pilots to pay for last year's strike, hence voluntary departure schemes for everybody except them being shown the door.

Apologies for the error. Original post deleted.

[Winnerhofer]

AF's problem is that it is in a no man's land in terms of market segment.
It neither fits in with a low-cost carrier nor does it offer the opulence of its Gulf competitors.
It will not survive as AF missed its chance when Blanc was running the show.
Blanc foresaw the mess and wanted IT (Air Inter) to become a LCC (Low-Cost Carrier).
With hindsight, it was a big mistake to merge AF and IT...and guess who were IT's advisers?
McKinsey!
McKinsey, remember, destroyed SR (Swissair).
When gangster Spinetta came along, he destroyed IJ (Air Libérté) and IW (AOM).
He also bears the guilt for 3 fatal crashes (1992, 2000, 2009).
When he was in power, his only motto was "La paix sociale à tout prix" which also meant that safety was being compromised...yes because those did not make the grade were being steamrolled onto the flightdeck despite having failed their proficiency tests.
I suspect that SkyTeam will be broken up and a new alliance being formed as AF falls into foreign ownership and this time it will be EK (Emirates).

[tonker]

I'd join that union.

[peekay4]

FYI, AF is back to profit. They just want more, and they want AF pilots to pay for last year's strike, hence voluntary departure schemes for everybody except them being shown the door.
Well, yes and no.

AF aren't really profitable. Although AF eked out a profit last quarter, they're still down for the year, and are currently forecast to end this year (FY2015) in negative territory.

What's worrisome for AF is that their total loss this year (to date) is actually even worse than last year, while their total cost keeps on increasing. They are currently at a net loss of €232 million for the year compared to last year's loss of €207m over the same time period.

So their operating result is down 25% but employee costs alone is increasing at around 1% (and other unit costs are increasing as well), on a like-for-like comparison.

The only good news was oil prices. But all the savings AF received from lower oil prices were offset by the strong Dollar and declining revenue. Plus they have a large amount of debt they are trying to bring down (currently at €4.5 billion).

I believe they were trying to achieve a 1% cost reduction this year before talks broke down.

Their long-haul business model is in a very difficult position. They are losing money on a lot of routes, which obviously is not sustainable.

[londonman]

"The whole industry is in a race to the bottom".

It's not just the airline industry but everywhere and driven by customers who know the cost of everything and the value of nothing.

[lederhosen]

This whole doom and gloom business is getting a bit out of hand. The american majors (a significant part of the market) have much improved their terms and conditions. Pay in China (if you can get in) is eye watering. There are jobs being created left right and centre. A major problem in the middle east is a shortage of pilots not pay.

Air France is hardly the poster child for moving with the times. They are in a classic squeeze between the low cost carriers at one end and new more innovative airlines creaming off the top end. If they do not react everyone can see they are in big trouble.

We will see how things develop. But I doubt if the pilot union leaders are particularly happy with how things played out yesterday. By the way I rather doubt that the mob had much to do with the pilots. Although it might be argued that their actions last year lit the fuse.

The vast majority of the job losses are outside the cockpit and they are the ones most upset. Although it might be fair to include a whole generation of young french pilots whose chances of a career with their state carrier look ever less likely.

[IcePack]

Sometimes it does execs good to realise the consequences of their actions.
IMHO they seem a bit remote from reality. A good down to earth old fashioned realisation. But hope the injuries are not serious, just embarrassing.

[dullard]

I'm with Ice Pack...

As I remember, some years ago, bosses at UPS painted a real doom and gloom scenario where hard times meant pay freezes or pay cuts to ensure survival in the face of strong competition. The same bosses were amazed when pilots offered support to "Brown van drivers" in their effort for a fair pay settlement...."Oh Hell! - no deliveries, no bonus!" Subsequently, they were positively horrified when the drivers stated that they would support the pilots when the company breached it's pilots' pay agreement (AA pay minus some percentage I think, but not honoured when AA pay rose)..... "Oh Hell! - no deliveries, no bonus!). Guess what happened? Both worker groups were awarded their correct, fair, awards and UPS continues to thrive. Solidarity, not greed.

Back in the 80's, the brilliant Alexi Sayle wrote a sketch and poem paralleling the "first" French Revolution ("Let them eat cake" and all that...) with the life of workers in Britain under Thatcher. The last line? - "....and when the revolution comes, just like it did in France, then we'll hang them from the lampposts and we'll watch the ba***rds dance!"

Looks like the "second" one may have already started at AF!!

[Greenlights]

What happened in AF does not come from pilots but mostly from ground staff.
in AF they have made tough efforts. Pilots not so much. Flying 60h per month, while others airlines they fly up to 90h (in mine, our pilots fly 90h per month).
Britsh aiways, Lufthansa etc...managed to be more productive. (i am sure that pilots at these airlines fly more than those at AF).
Ground staff in AF have the lowest income while pilots in AF are still very well paid. Flying 100 h more each year would not be a crime for them ! :ugh:

Note : There are enough unemployed pilots in France would be very happy to get a job in AF and bring food on the table.

[Stone_cold]

Greenlights .

Instead of trying to bring AF and the industry down to the level of your 90+ hour a month , why not try to raise the standard !!

The freaking problem with this "profession" !! That is , if you are a pilot .

[Greenlights]

Greenlights .

Instead of trying to bring AF and the industry down to the level of your 90+ hour a month , why not try to raise the standard !!

You want to raise the TCs while 99% of the rest lower them ?
Honestly I just think it is impossible. The 30's Glorious are long gone.

Even in Qatar airways or else, you may have a great income, insurance, (China, M-E etc) you will still fly as much as possible.

I don't say I am against this idea, but it is just not realistic in this world.
Our economy is based on fossil energy, oil, this energy is more and more expensive to extract.
All the problems are based on energy.

and I repeat again :
Note : There are enough unemployed pilots in France would be very happy to get a job in AF and bring food on the table.

Let's be honest one second : if you were in the management, why would you raise standard while you hit a tree plenty of pilots fall ?

[Private jet]

It's not just the airline industry but everywhere and driven by customers who know the cost of everything and the value of nothing.



What has always perplexed me is why many people are very willing to go and spend £/€ 60000+ or whatever on a new Range Rover or BMW, which will halve in value in 2-3 years & be worth scrap value in a dozen years time but quibble and bitch about a few £'s or €'s on an air ticket.

[RAT 5]

And what are KLM and its workers thinking about all this? The feeling is that KLM is plugging the holes created by the losses of AF. Many have mentioned that AF is a lost animal wandering in the jungle wondering what it should be. Others, BA, LH have responded to the market place and are doing well. KLM the same. It is often a better deal to fly with the nationals than with a LOCo. They have adapted. AF are still behind in this. Hence my question about KLM's attitude. They will not want to see their efforts diluted by the squandering of AF.
It is ironic that 15 years, or more, ago AF was technically bankrupt. The then government opposed Brussels "NON" to state aid and forced through a 3 tranche state aid restructuring package. Meanwhile KLM was profitable and independent, as were the other nationals. Somehow or other the fates swung away from KLM and they were forced to find a partner. They'd looked into the books of Alitalia and said NON, but somehow AF managed to cobble together a deal that saw them as the senior partner. How fortunes had changed; and how, now, they've changed again. KLM is doing good, AF bad, but AF is the controlling partner and maybe sucking the good blood out of KLM.
There will others who know more specifics of the finances, but there must be internals stresses.

[Baron rouge]

All this fuss about to company execs beeing rid off their shirt is just governement propagenda to put pilots to reason.

Nobody was injured contrary to what the press and the government say !

Lets be fair, the journalist, government pets, just mounted this incident so that Air France pilots could be put to reason and accept the lowerage of their T&C.

[lederhosen]

You got any evidence for what you just said Baron Rouge? I suspect indeed that this was in part organised to put pressure on the pilots. But are you saying the CGT (large french union apparently identified with this event) was doing this on behalf of the french government?

[Baron rouge]

this could be a coup, set by anybody , but it is not what I am saying.

Allthough your interpretation is in the range of what the establishment is ready to do any time to curb the workers.

Air France pilots are the most hated workers, envy beeing what drive the word since Cain and Abel.

You should see what the prime minister of France said on the subject ! This is ridiculous... and again nobody was hurt.

[roulishollandais]

The board is still dreaming to only blue eyes pilots, as it was thé case earlier:E

[lederhosen]

Sorry Roulishollandais but that was not very easy to understand. I am guessing you and obviously some others see this whole affair as a conspiracy to bring Air France employees to their knees.

There is a theory that the world can be divided into two groups, those who believe generally in conspiracy and those who believe in screwups (random happenings with no discernable pattern or reason). I think it more likely that yesterday was an unfortunate (but not entirely unpredictable) screwup on all sides, rather than one orchestrated by the powers of capitalism and the french government.

[roulishollandais]

Lederhosen,
We would llike to see respect of "PACTA SUNT SERVANDA". It is the base of free trade, common and global wealth, peace between sovereign Nations.
Action and Behaviour of M. De Jugnac are the contrary . Not a problem of conspiracy in that brutal confrontation but fight for ego in the board. Unions of pilots could do nothing other than immobility and resistance.
It is difficult to get money with an airline, bad management and poor sensitivity do the things worse.

[Winnerhofer]

No, the execs were rehearsing for the Krypton Factor:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXXbXNrpwt8
Compulsory training for every French exec!

[Nialler]

FYI, AF is back to profit. They just want more, and they want AF pilots to pay for last year's strike, hence voluntary departure schemes for everybody except them being shown the door.

Voluntary departure schemes have been proven disastrous in various industries. I'd be horrified if they were offered in aviation.

The nature of the offer is that those most confident in their abilities and thus their ability to find another job accept the offer.

[lederhosen]

Compensation is guaranteed by law. The airline will delay as long as possible in the hope that you will give up. Google 'flight delay compensation' and you will be inundated with the names of firms who will collect this for you on a no win no fee basis. Although they also take about a third when you get the money which is pretty much a given if you meet the criteria.

[FRying]

Checking in late on this one.

I'm glad some pilots have b@lls somewhere in Europe, unlike pretty much...the remainder of european pilots (except for the germans).

This community has gone so low it makes me ashamed I used to be part of it. A bunch of poor puppies that will pee where their master tells them to, and they actually to find justification in doing so, thus building some sort of reality in which they FEEL they're always right (it's so "modern" to abide by the rule, to accept all sorts of T&Cs). Very sad.

Way to go, AF pilots !

[fab777]

About KLM pilots: Every single pilot at AF would LOVE to get the newly accepted T&Cs at KLM. Reducing the postflight rest after a long haul flight from 5 days to 4, wow, it's 1 or 2 at AF... Retirement at 58, please, we want it! Thanks for the lesson!

About yearly flight hours at AF: 700 on SH, 800 on LH (except on the 330/340, overstaffed for some non-pilot related reasons). About 100 pilots on the 777 will be stopped from flying before the end of the year, reaching the max duty time, lower figures fed to the press by our directors are BS.

Not ashamed of our productivity, even if it's not EK...

Problem lies somewhere else, but that would be too long to expose here.

As for watching the HR director jumping a fence bare chested, well... Violence is bad, but it sure raised more than a smile... and not only within the airline!

[stiglet]

Well it didn't raise a smile from me; but then I'm not in your airline. Didn't raise a smile from anyone I've spoken to either.

[ironbutt57]

ought to happen more often...these leeches sit at their 35 hour daily routine drawing bonuses for doing what they are supposed to, and crew are out there paying the price for their mis-management...good for the AF crew who did this...some employees will lose more than their shirts because of these people

[FRying]

@ Stiglet : Oh yes, it's very mean....How mean, how super mean it is. I won't get caught with a smile on my face as it is soooo mean. This way, I'm a good boy.

What is wrong with you ? Sure it's violent. On the other hand, what do you think about the violence imbedded in the fact hundreds of pilots have to pay to work ? What do you think of the violence in having people changing bases throughout Europe for no obvious reason ? What do you think about the violence of having poor pilots flying several million dollars airplanes for extremely long hours, day and night with no respect no only for flight safety but also for these pilots' health and private life ? What do you think of the violence in having a pilot fired upon some bitter manager's will for the most minute and irrelevant reason.

Come on, cut that sorry whinge about those "poor" little managers who were going to fire 3000 people.

[NeoFit]

Come on, cut that sorry whinge about those "poor" little managers who were going to fire 3000 people.

AF Perform 2020 is going to fire 5000.

[45989]

Frying,
Yes not Ideal.
However if you are prepared to sign up to something daft,
what do you expect?

This Industry has been destroyed by those misguided fools that will fly for f**k all.
RYR WIZZ et Al as a Cojo followed by a stint in Middle East with no chance of return to civilization,
CAREER ??

[ChissayLuke]

Londonman

It's not driven by customers at all.
It's driven by a different 'c' word.
Competition.

[Smokie]

I can think of another one.........:E