Dreamliner windows

[Level bust]

A few nights ago I flew back from Boston on a Virgin B787. It was a 2200 departure, so when we boarded it was dark.

As it was my first flight in a 787 I was looking forward to looking out of the big windows. When we boarded all the windows had been set by the Cabin Supervisor to total blackout so it was impossible to see out, which I found very disorienting during taxi and take off, and my daughter found costraphobic.

The question is, was this a one off by this particular crew or is it standard practice for night departures on this aircraft, by Virgin or anyone else.

[edi_local]

I can't say I've heard of that before.

I have always been under the impression that the crew want the window shades open so that you're able to see outside. Indeed on any night flight I've taken in recent times they have insisted the blinds be open for take off and landing so this to me sounds like a mistake was made. Have you contacted VS about this?

I must say I don't like the idea of the crew controlling the shade level. I am someone who will sit for an entire flight with the blind open as I always choose a window seat specifically to see out.

[Level bust]

I haven't yet, I put it on their survey form, if I get no feedback it is my plan to contact Virgin.

I need to find someone to contact rather than just the customer services department.

[Hotel Tango]

Did you actually try to change the setting of your window? As far as I know even if they are dimmed from the galley it is still possible to readjust your personal window to your own liking. I haven't flown 787 with Virgin though, only with Qatar and ANA.

[Level bust]

Apparently the Windows can be controlled centrally by the cabin crew when I queried it with one of them after repeatedly pressing the button.

[PAXboy]

I appreciate that central control is desirable for certain circumstances. I'm glad of the tip off as, now, the first time I am likely to travel on a 787, I shall ask this question of the airline before booking. If I found myself unable to look out of the window?I would never fly with that carrier again. The window is the most important aspect of the flight.

Level bust What happened later in the flight? Were you able to clear the setting during the night? Was it only cleared centrally in the morning?

[Level bust]

What happened later in the flight? Were you able to clear the setting during the night? Was it only cleared centrally in the morning?

They were open when the aircraft was woken for breakfast, which happened to be over Ireland!

Once open the windows are big, reminded me of my first flight in a Viscount.

[Hotel Tango]

I know it has been debated before, but such a policy as Virgin's is enough to keep me from flying with them. If I have a window seat I want autonomy with regard to my window shade. I don't accept that airlines have the right to refuse passengers wanting their blinds open. All passengers are provided with eye shades to keep light out if they so wish. Many claustrophobic passengers tend to favour window seats so that they can look outside (even at night).

[Cyber Bob]

Virgin don't have a 'Policy' to keep window blinds shut. I think it's a decision made by the crew on the day. Most airlines favour closing blinds after take off to dim the respecive cabins as at night, most people want to sleep. It also prevents retina burn out when flying into sunrise and having an intense beam of light suddenly burning out your eye balls.

Far as I'm aware, window blinds should be open for take off and landing. It's the cabin lighting that should be dimmed at night so that your eyesight becomes accustomed to your surroundings

CB

[Halcyon Days]

On a return flight from Phuket on one earlier this year I was wanting to get some photos out of the window of the offshore islands etc that we had visited during our trip but almost immediately after take off at around 2000 feet the cabin crew decided to do a "demo" of the various colours/hues etc. I wasnt able to overide it and by the time it was finished we were above the first cloud layer and it was all too late. Maybe not important but annoying all the same .

[Mr Mac]

Have only flown Qatar and ANA and neither controlled blinds to the degree experienced by Level Bust. I do agree the windows are large and as they say some what reminiscent of the old Viscount which I first experienced with Channel Airways (that dates me !). As Paxboy says he would not use a carrier that started doing this as a standard, and I would be another who would boycott the carrier on that basis. I have yet to experience "central control" from crew but have had the occasional polite request which I have tried to comply with. However most of my flying is long haul in Business, and generally I have not had an issue if I explain why I like to look out of the window when watching a sun rise over the Indian Ocean while listening to Pink Floyd for instance.


Cheers
Mr Mac

[22/04]

Have flown 787s with both Air India and Virgin and CC have taken control at some stage.

Daytime Flight with Virgin; control was left with me for the entire flight.

Night time flight with Virgin; window set to dark after meal service, left on dark until approach and landing- flying East so most wanted to sleep until landing at 11.00 local (06.35 BST). There is still some visibility even on full dark during daytime- Sun looks like a dim blue LCD and outline terrain (e.g. mountains) visible below.

Air India - cabin crew set to dark after departure- remained this way until approach and landing on both day and night flights. ; similar to shades on this and other (e.g. Delta) carriers.

[Level bust]

That's what I would expect to happen, wait until airborne.

Awaiting reply from Virgin.

[ZFT]

Having traveled on the 787 multiple times now it will never be my aircraft of choice (not that we ever have that choice!). This issue, coupled with engine noise, vibrations and a very low quality interior finish makes it a 'cheap and nasty' mode of transport.
Very good for the operator I'm sure.

[206cc_jim]

"On a return flight from Phuket on one earlier this year I was wanting to get some photos out of the window of the offshore islands etc that we had visited during our trip but almost immediately after take off at around 2000 feet the cabin crew decided to do a "demo" of the various colours/hues etc. I wasnt able to overide it and by the time it was finished we were above the first cloud layer and it was all too late. Maybe not important but annoying all the same ."

The crew didn't decide, it is airline policy and to do this after take off.

[PAXboy]

Halcyon Days Can you mention which carrier it was ...?

Or does 206cc_jim know which carrier and know that it is policy?

[Andy_S]

Halcyon Days Can you mention which carrier it was ...?

Or does 206cc_jim know which carrier and know that it is policy?

Almost certainly Thomson. They did the same on my flight to Cancun last year.

[Level bust]

I have just received a reply from Virgin. Apparently it is not company policy to set the windows to 'dark'. They should have been open with the cabin lights dimmed (which the lights were)

Most apologetic and they will be speaking to the crew involved.

So hopefully a one off.

[Halcyon Days]

PAXboy -think we may know each other?

Rather not be too specific as I have connections-but suffice it to say I simply found it very frustrating at what seemed to me to be a very inappropriate time-not least with a 12 hour flight ahead-it could surely wait until we were well into the climb or in the cruise.
If it is "Airline policy"-then its a poorly thought out policy and seemed to me to be more for the convenience of the cabin crew to get it over and done with as quickly as possible.
Maybe I am just being a sad old geek-but yes-I do like looking out of the window-especially soon after take off-and if I can take a few photos to remember a great holiday-then its icing on the cake of a complete travel experience and -for me at least I found it extremely irritating.

[PAXboy]

Well, Halcyon Days, if we meet on board, I'll fight you for the window seat. :}

I know all too well the rules of keeping the blinds down, so that the early morning sun does not wake the pax who are sleeping. Which is why I cover my head with a blanket before sneaking the blind ajar to look. I take my sunglasses in my handcase so that I'm ready for the sunshine!

There are other examples, such as going to the exit door and looking through the small window to see the world outside. For me, the view from the window is VERY important. On many flights, I consider the likely route and which side of the a/c I want to be on to get a view I might not have seen before. I was once trapped in the middle block form SFO to HKG in Y. Aarrgggghh what a terrible flight.

So when I say that I would find out the airline policy before travelling on a 787 - I'm not joking. I'll get it in writing. :hmm: When I read about this feature of the 787 (many years ago) this was my exact concern.

CC are under many pressures and have, in the past, oft been accused of devious ways of lulling the pax to sleep - most of which are not true. But this is not something I would accept.

[rjtjrt]

Passengers who book a window seat are presumably wanting to look out the window, as in other respects the window seat has disadvantages. So there are presumably statistics that can be used to give a preliminary indication of how many customers will be unhappy with any policy to restrict outside view, even if a proper passenger survey is not carried out.
Window seat and ability to look out window are of overriding importance to me.
Even over ocean can look for other aircraft, or shipping.
It is important to consider other passengers, and as suggested using a blanket to avoid too much light on sleeping cabin is a good idea.
The ability to be allowed to look out window is a prime determinant of choosing airline and aircraft for me.

[Daysleeper]

The ability to be allowed to look out window is a prime determinant of choosing airline and aircraft for me.

Well don't book on United then. Not a 787 but on a recent 10 am departure from London they had served food and had all the window blinds shut by 1200 UK time and they stayed shut until about 30 mins before landing. Any transgressors were aggressively told off by the few cabin crew who were not snoozing off their night out in London. :bored:
Daytime crossing of the high atlantic in good weather can be stunning, plastic window trims and crap IFE is not.

[ZFT]

Not a 787 but on a recent 10 am departure from London they had served food and had all the window blinds shut by 1200 UK time and they stayed shut until about 30 mins before landing. Any transgressors were aggressively told off by the few cabin crew who were not snoozing off their night out in London

Same experience on UA 767 LHR to Chicago. (Probably the smallest IFE screen I've ever seen too!)

[El Bunto]

The A350 will be even worser; old-school solid window shades, but motorised and controllable by the cabin crew. With those closed you can't even see the glow of the Sun.

I do wonder if the designers of these aircraft ever fly in them as passengers.

Edit: apparently two shades per window, one semi-opaque and one hard-plastic totally-opaque.

[Niallo]

Passenger windows are a waste of money. Airplanes would be cheaper and lighter without them. External video camera channels could be available to passengers who want to see outside.

[Stanwell]

Niallo,
Spend much time as SLF, do you?
Do you even know what aircraft you're on?
No, I didn't think so.

This creeping idea that cabin staff or others can determine what I can see and when I can see it is, I'm afraid, a bit over the top.

When I'm down the back of the tin tube, I also like to see what's going on.
Call me old-fashioned, or even weird, if you like.


p.s. An image from a fin-mounted camera would be good, though.

[ZFT]

An image from a fin-mounted camera would be good, though. TG A380 IFE has this - I assume others too?

[edi_local]

Well don't book on United then. Not a 787 but on a recent 10 am departure from London they had served food and had all the window blinds shut by 1200 UK time and they stayed shut until about 30 mins before landing. Any transgressors were aggressively told off by the few cabin crew who were not snoozing off their night out in London. :bored:
Daytime crossing of the high atlantic in good weather can be stunning, plastic window trims and crap IFE is not.

This has happened to me once, on a flight DXB-PEK with the A380 about 2 years ago.

We left DXB at 4am or somesuch. By the time we were in the cruise, over the Himalayas, it was absolutely clear and what a stunning view from 35,000Ft! This is something I had wanted to see. It is specifically why I got a seat on that side of the aircraft. The crew had other ideas and I was told off and accused of waking up my fellow passengers (who not only had eyeshades on but both of them, elderly Chinese ladies, had thick, dark scarves draped over their faces too. I continued to look out, but draped my jacket over my head and closed the blind half way...still the crew weren't happy with me. I mean come on! I am not one to refuse reasonable crew orders, but it really did spoil my flight and this was nothing but pure spite. I had no intention of sleeping on the flight, I was disturbing no one and I really didn't see the need to demand this when half the cabin was wide awake too. Even if the cabin was sound asleep, I took responsibility and met them half way by preventing the light from escaping to the cabin as best I could, but I was just met with total hostility!

[Niallo]

"Niallo,
Spend much time as SLF, do you?
Do you even know what aircraft you're on?"

No, I don't usually know what aircraft I'm on. Does it matter? They're all much the same.

Anyway why would anyone want to look out the windows in flight. There's nothing to see.

[Planemike]

Troll.... methinks!!!

[Stanwell]

Yeah, he'd have to be, Planemike.

I've said it before and I'll say it again..
An aircraft is a mode of conveyance - not a 24 hour dormitory for those who, at whim, would like it it to be.
I keep reasonable hours and seek not to interfere with the amenity of others.

Now, if someone feels like a kip in the middle of the day then fine - go for it.
Eyeshades, earplugs, blanket - whatever works for you.
Just don't demand that I adopt your out-of-whack circadian rhythm to accommodate your selfish desires.

If I find myself confronted by cabin staff strongly 'requesting' that I close my window blind for no better reason than
someone in the cabin wanting to sleep at 11 in the morning, then the in-flight entertainment could turn 'live'.
Plastic planes, plastic food and now, plastic cabin staff - what next?

End of rant.

[Ainippe]

I am using United to fly LHR - IAH - LHR on a regular basis. I have been on UA96 three times now. The first flight the pax were unable to adjust the windows until 30 mins prior to landing. The other two flights I was able to adjust the windows as I pleased from the get go.

[PAXboy]

Interesting Ainippe. Perhaps some customer feed-back worked?

Slight thread drift but it's about windows:
I'm currently trying to sort a problem for next year. Booked on a flight that would take us past some scenic views in daylight and booked left hand side for that. Now carrier has to change our flight as the Premium Economy will not be available on the flight we chose (due to problems on their side). The alternatives take us past the pretty scenery at night and so I have to find a way around this as the view was a key factor in booking the original time. Fortunately, the 380 has old style windows.