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Ringi
23rd Sep 2015, 16:27
I'm wondering what your refuelling procedures are with passengers disembarking or boarding? Specifically are you finding one pilot outside on a headset for most of the turnaround, followed by a rushed briefing upon return pre departure?

spannersatcx
23rd Sep 2015, 16:45
no pilots on headsets outside!

Superpilot
23rd Sep 2015, 17:39
Why on earth do Ryanair do that? :confused:

Skyjob
24th Sep 2015, 00:47
Because someone read this text years ago: (item c-1 and c-2)

AMC1 CAT.OP.MPA.195 Refuelling/defuelling with passengers embarking, on board or disembarking
OPERATIONAL PROCEDURES - GENERAL
(a) When refuelling/defuelling with passengers on board, ground servicing activities and work inside the aircraft, such as catering and cleaning, should be conducted in such a manner that they do not create a hazard and allow emergency evacuation to take place through those aisles and exits intended for emergency evacuation.
(b) The deployment of integral aircraft stairs or the opening of emergency exits as a prerequisite to refuelling is not necessarily required.
(c) Operational procedures should specify that at least the following precautions are taken:
(1) one qualified person should remain at a specified location during fuelling operations with passengers on board. This qualified person should be capable of handling emergency procedures concerning fire protection and fire-fighting, handling communications and initiating and directing an evacuation;
(2) two-way communication should be established and should remain available by the aeroplane's inter-communication system or other suitable means between the ground crew supervising the refuelling and the qualified personnel on board the aeroplane; the involved personnel should remain within easy reach of the system of communication;
(3) crew, personnel and passengers should be warned that re/defuelling will take place;
(4) ‘Fasten Seat Belts’ signs should be off;
(5) ‘NO SMOKING’ signs should be on, together with interior lighting to enable emergency exits to be identified;
(6) passengers should be instructed to unfasten their seat belts and refrain from smoking;
(7) the minimum required number of cabin crew should be on board and be prepared for an immediate emergency evacuation;
(8) if the presence of fuel vapour is detected inside the aeroplane, or any other hazard arises during re/defuelling, fuelling should be stopped immediately;
(9) the ground area beneath the exits intended for emergency evacuation and slide deployment areas should be kept clear at doors where stairs are not in position for use in the event of evacuation; and
(10) provision is made for a safe and rapid evacuation.

http://easa.europa.eu/system/files/dfu/Annex%20to%20ED%20Decision%202012-018-R.pdf

Qwerti
24th Sep 2015, 01:38
Try to squeeze everything in a 25min turnaround ..voila! Standing there in the rain.

Goldenrivett
24th Sep 2015, 08:31
(2) two-way communication should be established and should remain available by the aeroplane's inter-communication system or other suitable means between the ground crew supervising the refuelling and the qualified personnel on board the aeroplane; the involved personnel should remain within easy reach of the system of communication;

One could interpret that as communicating through an open DV window on smaller aircraft (B737 / A320). If the DV window was closed briefly, then attention could be summonsed by banging on the side of the aircraft. (Like we used to do in the old days)

Skyjob
24th Sep 2015, 11:46
One could interpret...

That is (unfortunately) how is was interpreted by their FOPS it appears many moons ago, thus creating a (undesirable) situation when trying to facilitate their fast turnarounds, especially on those flights requiring large uplifts or with PRM on board requiring handling pre/post fuelling...

No Fly Zone
2nd Oct 2015, 08:01
Skyjob laid out the rules and good practices earlier. Most follow that general routine or even tighter. That said, some marginal carriers (ULCCs) continue to cut to the bone even on safety issues.
Drivers should know these details before the accept the offer.
SLCs should understand that you get what you pay for and - sometimes - that includes safety protocols.
At least the drivers know what questions to ask....

Piltdown Man
2nd Oct 2015, 09:09
"...other suitable means" for us equals a mobile phone at home base, for outstations a bang on the side of the fuselage etc. or get the whole thing overseen by the dispatcher? But you mustn't let these procedures interfere with what has to be done. If you are late departing, then you are late. But you have to state why. For us that is not an issue. We have an employer who listens and union support. If it is for you then have to report it to your regulator. You mustn't be bullied.

PM

RAT 5
2nd Oct 2015, 15:40
The question this issue raises is:

why do different operators under the same XAA satisfy this requirement via different methods. If one method is more 'turn-round' friendly than another then why no adopt it. If the strictest method of interpretation is adopted by one carrier and approved by their XAA why do not all carriers of the same jurisdiction have to comply in the same way?
Just curious.