VFR flight plan and IMC

[PhilD]

A question for those who know more about flight rules than I do.

Yesterday (after waiting for the cloud to lift a bit) I filed a VFR flight plan from Blackbushe to an airfield in northern France. However it was clear from the 215 and the METAR that as soon as I got to about 1000ft I would be in IMC, and that the cloud probably extended to the base of Class A airspace at least for the first 10 mins or so (I am IMC rated).

As it turned out this is exactly what happened. As soon as I was clear of the circuit and not wanting to stay at 1000ft under the clouds I got a RIS from Farnborough and was able to level at 2500ft in IMC from there until approaching GWC, when I was able to climb further and be VFR on top, and it was plain sailing from there. (Northern France was VMC and so was the return journey).

My question is: can I just file VFR if I know that I will be in IMC for part of the route and, if so, how much is reasonable. Beyond this limit should file as IFR, or am I not allowed to do this without an IR? Or can I file IFR and decline any clearances into Class A Airspace?

[Keef]

You can file a "Mixed" flight plan if you expect to enter IFR along the way. Codes are Y for IFR first and Z for VFR first; include in the FPL routing the points where you'll change rules.

That's fine,and you can fly in IMC on the "IFR" sectors with an IMC rating as long as you are in UK airspace and not in Class A. Talk to the relevant ATC unit as required.

Once you reach the French (or any non-UK) FIR boundary, you have to be VFR and in VMC unless you have an IR.

If you filed VFR and find yourself getting into IMC, and if you're in airspace that requires it, then you need to call the controlling ATC unit and tell them you're IFR in IMC. That means all airspace except class G, if my memory is working today.

[Chilli Monster]

Ok - quick definition first:

"Flight Plan - details of a flight or portion of a flight submitted to enable issuance of an ATC clearance".

IFR/IMC in class 'G' airspace is not subject to an ATC clearance, therefore no flight plan is required. There was nothing wrong at all in the plan that you filed. You just changed your mind part way through and resumed VFR later

If you were to file an off airways IFR plan then you would never be instructed to enter class 'A' anyway - as you wouldn't have planned to enter. In addition none of the ATC units on your route would try to get you to enter class 'A' because they wouldn't even have a copy of your plan - that would only go to your departure airfield, destination airfield and your alternate maybe.

If you intended all of your flight in UK airspace, including the departure, to be conducted IFR, then you should file a plan. But again, this is more relevant if your flight begins or ends at an airfield with a proper ATC unit.

CM

[Keef]

CM is correct (as always!): one bitlet to add - you *must* file a flight plan for any flight crossing an international boundary. (Well, there are a few tiny exceptions, but if you always do it you won't get surprised).

I regularly file Y out and Z back when going to France. It's amazing how often the IMC becomes VMC just before the zone boundary :-)

Filing a VFR flight plan in the UK is usually a waste of time - nobody enroute gets it anyway.

[PhilD]

Thanks K & CM for the advice. Just a point of detail - where do the Y and Z go in the FPL - e.g. if my routing is (EGLK) DCT SAM DCT MP with the change from IFR to VFR happening after SAM?

I have only filed VFR flight plans so far for trips outside the UK - I always thought it would be prudent to do one in the UK if you were flying over mountainous terrain or sea, but I had assumed this was just so S&R could be alerted if you fail to turn up at your destination. Seems like this is a good assumption if no-one enroute gets it!

Phil

[Chilli Monster]

In the "flight rules" box. So you'll either have 'V', 'I', 'Y' or 'Z'. If you include Y (IFR becoming VFR) or Z (VFR becoming IFR) then you put in the route box the point at which the flight rules change, along with how the flight has changed, separated by a '/'.

So, to use your example: EGLK N0120F040 DCT SAM/N0120VFR DCT MP

As for when to file - your assumption is right. Have a read of the first 3 pages of Filing Flight Plans (http://www.ais.org.uk/uk_aip/pdf/enr/20110.pdf) which provides guidance.

CM

[GulfStreamV]

Do you need to file a FP when crossing UK FIR into Scottish FIR?

GV

[Chilli Monster]

GV - No.

A file plan must be filed for flights across International FIR boundaries - Devolution hasn't quite gone that far yet ;)

CM

[bookworm]

Actually CM's
EGLK N0120F040 DCT SAM/N0120VFR DCT MP

is not strictly right. A change of flight rules is supposed to be indicated by the letters VFR or IFR on their own:

EGLK N0120F040
DCT SAM VFR DCT MP

is all that's required for a Y FPL.

For VFR to IFR (Z), the level and speed is required

EGLK N0120VFR
DCT MP DCT SAM/N0120A030 IFR DCT CPT

For a VFR FPL it hardly matters.

To answer PhilD's original question, so long as whatever ATC you're working understands what flight rules you're following, I don't think it matters.

[Chilli Monster]

Bookworm

Never had a problem with any I've filed that way, and still receive them in that format.

But then as the vast majority of people that this applies to will not be afected by the vagaries of IFPS it's not really a problem. In fact, having filed IFPS plans in that format they've still been accepted.

Pedantry taken too far perhaps ;)

(And I thought the original question had been answered)

CM

[bookworm]

CM

Confession. Were it not for having very recently read the following in the IFPS Users Manual I probably wouldn't have noticed.

3.3.8 ...A change to VFR should normally be indicated as follows :
Point VFR e.g. ....... G1 KOK VFR .........

Indication of a change of speed and altitude in combination with a change to VFR is inconsistent with the nature of VFR flight. However, such changes are often received by IFPS and frequently the letters "VFR" are inserted in place of the level or altitude information. As this is a common practice, IFPS accepts and outputs this format.

The following formats for a change of flight rules are therefore accepted and output by IFPS :
Point VFR e.g. ....... G1 KOK VFR .........
Point/SpeedLevel VFR e.g. ....... G1 KOK/N0210A020 VFR .........
Point/SpeedVFR e.g. ....... G1 KOK/N0210VFR .........

C'mon, for a pedant like me it was a red rag to a bull. Actually, strictly speaking, bulls are colourblind... but I digress :)

(Oh and yes, I think you did a fine job of answering PhilD's question, but wanted to add to it.)