C & T

[The Management]

If all the Check and Trainers resigned at once, we would consider that industrial action holding "The CPG" hostage. We consider that an unforgivable sin and will have considerable repercussions for those individuals.

We will threaten with "resign and be fired" and that will usually be enough to persuade them not to leave.

We know most C&T's are in it for the wrong reasons and will not want to be banned forever. They like the status.

If most of the Check and Trainers over a period of six months to one year resigned for personal reasons and no new pilots joined the C&T system… that will be harder to track.

In the end, very few will resign their post from our Elite Check and Training System.

The DFO will give some lip service (as in our new rostering system slated for 2030) where need be to make it look like something is being done but nothing will change.

We have connections with the Hong Kong Civil Aviation Department and they will grant "Training and Checking" concessions over a period to 12-24 months while "The CPG" forms another list to terminate employment of certain individuals.

Most will fall back into line very quickly.

We will offer very little in the form of rostering, housing, pay, etc., just the very minimum to make it work.

We will offer a one time signing bonus to those who join the C&T staff and put certain individuals on the fast track to become STC's and BTC's for those taking the bonus. If need be, we will increase the training allowance to 23% over a period of one year, reducing to 20% the second year, reducing to 17% the third year and back to the normal allowance the fourth year.

We always have a plan if certain groups start industrial action so your contract compliance is futile.

We always land on our feet.

To My Bonus
The Management.

[Trafalgar]

Yup, that was pretty flat. I guess he hasn't figured out yet that most of us DGAS.

[Arfur Dent]

As we all know TM is but a useful spoof. Trouble is, the real lot seem to think this way and may indeed have some 'friends in high places'.
The senior people on the island and especially in London need to get a grip of this whole mess before it gets completely out of hand.

[asianeagle]

people on the island and especially in London need to get a grip of this whole mess before it gets completely out of hand.

The people in London and on the island, didn't get rich and in the positions they are in, by being ignorant.
I suspect they are very well aware of whats going on and are either not fussed or actively encouraging the modus operandi.

It's their train set after all.

the reality is, if you no longer enjoy working for the company, then perhaps a move is whats required.

[Just Do It]

asianeagle

Not a chance! I won't get anything out of the divorce.

This place is a marriage of convenience and about the good will within it. I still get laid on a daily basis with a few days off per month!

However e-harmony has probably got your compatibility score with stilton at 97%. Grab a room and whisper "sweat obvious" statements in each others ears!

Glad you are happy though! I wish I had your diverse employment history and life experience to compare the present state of affairs.

[asianeagle]

Just do it...
I have no idea what your on about... the e-harmony and stilton score are lost on me I'm afraid:ugh:

I never said I was happy, but what I did say in a round about fashion was that running to big daddy Swire and tittle tailing on the minions here in HK, or expecting them to get a grip, is a complete waste of time.

Pretty much like your summation of my compatibility score :rolleyes:

[goathead]

In the end, very few will resign their post from our Elite Check and Training System.

That means the divorced
The ones with wives they can't stand
The ones with too many kids with wives they can't stand
The ones with no life
The ones that ' want to give back to something that has given them so much '
The ones that failed there upgrades , some multiple times , on every level
The pole climbers
The ones with no kids, and a wife they can't stand
The ones who are on a base

That pretty much completes 90% of the C&T's

So in the end , it's all over.

[Trafalgar]

Goathead, you remind me of 'Tokyo Rose' in WWII. Look it up, you'll know what i'm getting at. :suspect:

[cxorcist]

As I reread the above letter from the C&Ters, a recurring thought keeps surfacing in my mind. IT'S OUR FAULT!!! Yes, management has pushed us to the brink, but we allow ourselves to be pushed to the brink. Honestly, show of hands... How many of you book off on preemptive sick calls? By that, I mean unfitness calls where you are not actually sick yet, relationships are not actually failing yet, the bills are not actually overdue yet, etc. So many of us are "suck it up, get it done" types of personality that we are literally selling ourselves (mind, body, and soul) to CX for a degrading pittance of a living. Most of us are far more talented than this job requires. We are whoring ourselves for absolutely no good reason whatsoever. Why???

I believe it is time for a review of sickness management. It would be imprudent to post the Company's SMS programme here, but I will give you some tactics in case you do not know already. The only attendance record you should concern yourself with is the last 12 months. Some call it a rolling twelve months. In the last twelve months, you should strive to keep your sickness calls (Unfit for reason other than fatigue, ASRF) to a number of 3 or 4, preferably 4. The number of days you have booked off in the last twelve months should be in the high teens or low twenties depending on your number of sick calls respectively. This leaves you at all times with at least one more sick call and a long string of days in case you catch a cold or the flu. Think about it, this is an extra three weeks leave every year that you can take whenever you want. Sound good? Might help?

I highly recommend that you get a sickness note for each event, but this is not required, yet. Keep in mind that you do not have to be sick to go to the doctor. Make an appointment, and tell him/her what is going on. You can't sleep for more than a few hours at a time. You are run down and tired. You can't concentrate for very long. You feel like you are always on the verge of getting sick. Your relationships are suffering at home. You think you might be drinking to much. Yada, yada, yada...

If the any of above is a chronic problem, and a couple weeks off don't fix things. It is probably time to go see the flight doc and tell him/her what is up. They will pull your medical but not to worry, you will get it back after an extended period of rest and relaxation. They have to do this. It is their job. Like you, they have an obligation to the traveling public. This works to your benefit, not your detriment. You DO NOT want to be that guy who screwed up and got people injured or killed. All but the newest of our pilots have all been there, flying when we shouldn't be. LEARN from those times.

In closing, stop killing yourselves! Repetitious three man long haul will make this much worse. Two man WOCL is just plain unsafe and stupid. I would not do that, period. Just book off unfit. You are not able to sit in the seat for 9 hours and then do a landing, ever. That hardly makes you a wimp. This Company not only does not care for you, they despise you. They resent everything about you. They dislike that you make "too much". They dislike that you work counter to their bonuses. They dislike that you are not a machine with an on/off switch. They dislike any esteem that you may get from being a "pilot". They resent that they have to pay you housing, or that they had to pay for your flight training. They resent that they have to pay for your kids to go to school. In short, they HATE you. They LOVE when you are tired, worn down, looking like **** (note the uniforms), disorganized with failing relationships, living in a tiny crappy apartment, and selling yourselves on days off to pay your ex. They would just assume you drop dead the day after you taxi under the water cannons so you cannot use retiree staff travel. I am not kidding.

[Trafalgar]

Well, I was going to debate you on this...but then I realised, sadly...you are completely correct. Take note everyone of the philosophy being described here, and then implement it as advised.

[Shep69]

Alls I can say is that is one well written letter.

[Trafalgar]

As Anna seems to think that 3 man long haul is no big deal, I propose that we change the office hours for the management and staff.

Monday: 9am - 5pm

Tuesday: 2pm - 10pm

Wednesday: 6pm - 2am into
< split duty>
Thursday: 5am - 1pm

Friday: 1am - 5pm(London UK time). < simulate a long haul

Saturday: computer based study and report writing

Sunday: O day


....additionally, you can't leave your office cubicle for the entire duty period, limited to crap catering, and noise generators installed in each office to simulate aircraft noise for every hour on duty. Enjoy.

[Frogman1484]

why is this letter not on the SCMP or the Apple Daily?

[goathead]

The SCMP will be under huge pressure not to publish such a political hot potato and CX has already seen this coming and doing there utmost to deter it's publication

As for the Apple daily , they wouldn't have clue what the letter meant

[cxorcist]

Whomever took down the C&Ters' letter???

Weak, very weak! It's called freedom of the press.

Oh, that's right. Hong Kong is in the Corporate Republic of China.

[Arfur Dent]

Moderators.
Who took down the letter and why? Are you working for CPG Secret police?? Is somebody scared that The SCMP will get to hear of this disquiet?
Why not remove the whole thread - or do you really believe TM is real and the thread originator is genuine? He's threatening another 49ers for Goodness sake! Is that OK and a warning letter of impending safety issues isn't?
Strange world inhabited here.:confused:

[Bob Hawke]

PPrune moderators are pathetic.

[cxorcist]

I am in possession of the same letter. Should I post it? I did not before because it is not mine to post. I am not one of the signatories, but perhaps that does not matter. Maybe I should post it here over and over until my account is locked out. Then, I will join under another name and repost it. I could also post it on Airline Pilot Central. It would definitely get attention over there, but only to further ruin CX's already worthless reputation there.

[Tea time]

I think the letter was pulled by the original poster , but like everything in cyberspace , once it's out there you can't delete it
I would hope that the company will sit up and take notice of a very well written letter , because if they don't and God forbid something happens . This will come back to haunt them

[Giuseppe Giovanni]

As one of the signatories on the letter, I find it in very poor form that it's now been hijacked by the mob and thrown around at gutter level. Shame on you all.

One of the chief signatories expressly asked for it to be removed from this forum. It was. Now it's been re posted.

Please take it down again. It's certainly not helping our cause. Quite the opposite....

[geh065]

How is it not helping?

[Captain Dart]

Actually, it is 'poor form' for individuals to be in a voluntary position training pilots who are on lesser conditions than themselves; their eventual replacements.

Certainly not 'giving something back' to the industry; more like contributing to the race to the bottom.

The letter is a start, but it should be followed by resignations from these voluntary checking and training positions. Then you might gain some respect. If the system is that broken, you should not be part of it.

[PPRuNe Towers]

Many of you have been entirely wrong on who the very polite requests -not demand - came from. You can all group up and send similar letters to where it counts in the same way though.

Rob

[iflylow]

Captain Dart,

Why the hate? You don't want to be part of Team Zero-to-Hero?

You know what they say... Those who can't fly, train. Those who can't train, check.

I also agree it was naive of anyone who signed that letter to think it would stay private. And also why would you want a letter like that private? Exactly what has in accomplished in the almost one month it's been out there?

[XFR8]

FGS guys and gals, focus on the enemy! The training department are not the enemy.

The management *ssholes are the enemy. The management *ssholes running a campaign to destroy our safety record are the enemy.

The DCP Towers is right. Everyone, right now send a letter to the DFO stating your concerns. Copy the AOA's attorneys.

Focus.

[NoAndThen]

As I reread the above letter from the C&Ters, a recurring thought keeps surfacing in my mind. IT'S OUR FAULT!!! Yes, management has pushed us to the brink, but we allow ourselves to be pushed to the brink. Honestly, show of hands... How many of you book off on preemptive sick calls? By that, I mean unfitness calls where you are not actually sick yet, relationships are not actually failing yet, the bills are not actually overdue yet, etc. So many of us are "suck it up, get it done" types of personality that we are literally selling ourselves (mind, body, and soul) to CX for a degrading pittance of a living. Most of us are far more talented than this job requires. We are whoring ourselves for absolutely no good reason whatsoever. Why???

I believe it is time for a review of sickness management. It would be imprudent to post the Company's SMS programme here, but I will give you some tactics in case you do not know already. The only attendance record you should concern yourself with is the last 12 months. Some call it a rolling twelve months. In the last twelve months, you should strive to keep your sickness calls (Unfit for reason other than fatigue, ASRF) to a number of 3 or 4, preferably 4. The number of days you have booked off in the last twelve months should be in the high teens or low twenties depending on your number of sick calls respectively. This leaves you at all times with at least one more sick call and a long string of days in case you catch a cold or the flu. Think about it, this is an extra three weeks leave every year that you can take whenever you want. Sound good? Might help?

I highly recommend that you get a sickness note for each event, but this is not required, yet. Keep in mind that you do not have to be sick to go to the doctor. Make an appointment, and tell him/her what is going on. You can't sleep for more than a few hours at a time. You are run down and tired. You can't concentrate for very long. You feel like you are always on the verge of getting sick. Your relationships are suffering at home. You think you might be drinking to much. Yada, yada, yada...

If the any of above is a chronic problem, and a couple weeks off don't fix things. It is probably time to go see the flight doc and tell him/her what is up. They will pull your medical but not to worry, you will get it back after an extended period of rest and relaxation. They have to do this. It is their job. Like you, they have an obligation to the traveling public. This works to your benefit, not your detriment. You DO NOT want to be that guy who screwed up and got people injured or killed. All but the newest of our pilots have all been there, flying when we shouldn't be. LEARN from those times.

In closing, stop killing yourselves! Repetitious three man long haul will make this much worse. Two man WOCL is just plain unsafe and stupid. I would not do that, period. Just book off unfit. You are not able to sit in the seat for 9 hours and then do a landing, ever. That hardly makes you a wimp. This Company not only does not care for you, they despise you. They resent everything about you. They dislike that you make "too much". They dislike that you work counter to their bonuses. They dislike that you are not a machine with an on/off switch. They dislike any esteem that you may get from being a "pilot". They resent that they have to pay you housing, or that they had to pay for your flight training. They resent that they have to pay for your kids to go to school. In short, they HATE you. They LOVE when you are tired, worn down, looking like **** (note the uniforms), disorganized with failing relationships, living in a tiny crappy apartment, and selling yourselves on days off to pay your ex. They would just assume you drop dead the day after you taxi under the water cannons so you cannot use retiree staff travel. I am not kidding.

Hey cxorcist,

Since the chairman of the HKAOA seems to be taking direction from you, you mind if we just organize a sickout? None of this, yeah, call unfit when you're not, do it four times a year, but, no no... that's not officially what we, the HKAOA want you to do. But yeah, that IS what we want you do it!

If we're going to do it, let's man up and do it. We're floundering, and it's time, cxorcist, to start leading! WHAT WILL THE INTERNET TELL US TO DO???

[The Management]

We cannot counter act guerrilla warfare so don't put your head up or we will chop it off. We have done it in the past to people who have stood up against us and will not hesitate to do it again.

The thing about Guerrilla Warfare is we don't know where it is coming from and have very little defenses to deal with it.

If we know there is a sick out or a golf day, we then know who to target and put you on our list, but if it is random, we don't know whom to target.

Please do a mass sick out so we can terminate some pilots.

To My Bonus
The Management.

[Trafalgar]

Hilarious. Threaten the very same tactic that has mired the company in over a decade of lawsuits and restitution. From the very top, "We will not go down that route again" (and that is fact). And btw, if there is a 'mass sickout', how do you know whom amongst them is not genuinely sick? Whether organised or not, there is nothing the company can do about it. If you are 'sick', book off. End of.

[Shep69]

Hilarious. Threaten the very same tactic that has mired the company in over a decade of lawsuits and restitution. From the very top, "We will not go down that route again" (and that is fact). And btw, if there is a 'mass sickout', how do you know whom amongst them is not genuinely sick? Whether organised or not, there is nothing the company can do about it. If you are 'sick', book off. End of.

Funny thing is there really hasn't been any conspiracy, despite some thinking there has, and this whole thing really is random. Folks are just reaching their limit and the end of their rope, not sleeping, etc. (and legitimately becoming unfit) and it happens to hit a lot of folks at the same time every now and again and hits more and more as this thing drags out. Used to be there was time for recovering and and more of an incentive to press through if iffy or in a grey area and get the job done (as well as more time to take care of family matters). No more. It really HAS gotten to this stage, and no indication it's going to get better anytime soon.

Then again, maybe there is a sort of a pattern; the more unstable the rosters get the more this thing tends to happen and ripple through. You flip the clock around a few times, throw in a couple of long hauls, throw in some unpredictable reserves with launches outside the window, folks stay awake for long periods of time and their body brakes down and gets sick. Go figure. Kind of ironic in that the company creates it's own 'industrial action' which isn't really industrial action at all; just folks breaking.

[oriental flyer]

Hey Shep

Does the "body brakes down " mean that it is on a go slow ?

Just kidding , good post, but the typo did make me laugh

[controlledrest]

There doesn't need to be a sickout, just don't go to work when you are not fit or not rested to safely complete the duty. The sick rate will be greater than 3 - 4 times per annum.

How often have you flown single pilot, with the other pilot asleep in the seat? Followed Controlled Rest procedures? Submitted ASR-F? If you need controlled rest you should have signed on. If you plan on using controlled rest you are breaking the regs.

If you aren't able to safely complete the duty, don't do it. If it is due to insufficient rest, tell Crew Control and ask if there is a suitable duty. Even if you are on reserve you don't have to accept whatever they throw at you. File an ASR-F.

We have enabled the company's piss poor management for too long. Time to be a rational, responsible professional. Its not hard. The company doesn't give a ****, it is time for us to step up and be professionals about it all.