**warning**

[Capt PPRuNe]

As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent. In fact the press may use it, or the unscrupulous, to elicit certain reactions.

It would appear that it is that time of year again where many regulars have forgotten the big red words at the bottom of the pages (recreated above for those too lazy to scroll down) and too many newcomers haven't bothered to actually read them or are incapable of understanding them. If you are too stupid or immature to comprehend the meaning of the words in red then you shouldn't be on these forums. If you are actually posting on these forums and fail to apply the meaning of those red words then you are in danger of being removed forcibly.

I have noticed a trend over the last few months whereby some posters are so inceredibly naive that they believe we regular users of this forum cannot read between the lines and are unable to suss out who is and isn't a professional involved in the industry. Whilst the forums are here primarily for discussion of issues that affect professional pilots and we welcome input from others involved in the industry there has been an increasing trend of people who are only enthusiasts who feel they can ignore the red writing and post whatever they like. Well, the time has come to point out that the moderators and Admins of these forums are going to be clamping down on posters who are abusing their anonymity and who we feel are just 'pretenders' intent on having what they consider to be 'fun' at our expense.

If you have nothing to do with the industry and your posts show that to be the case, because most of us who are 'inside' can read between the lines, and the content is what we consider to be of dubious intent, then you are likely to have your posts removed. There will be an appeals process if you feel you have been unfairly censored and you will have to apply by email to [email protected] where your appeal will be reviewed. You will NOT be allowed to conduct your case in public on these forums and any breach of this will lead to a banning. We expect those that use these forums to be inteligent and mature enough to comprehend this.

Also, there are too many people just posting trivia or questions that have nothing to do with professional aviation and we are having to move the threads to more appropriate forums. In future many of the threads posted that are not relevant to this forums, and that includes rehashed press releases about airlines, routes and airports as well as requests from 'spotters' for info about something they may or may not have seen will be moved and no link to the thread will be left.

As usual, I have to step in when I see the forums being abused by a a minority who believe that because they are anonymous they can behave in a manner that is extremely offensive to many people. I don't know how many times I have to repeat this but if you cannot argue a point without resorting to personal attacks and abuse then don't bother posting because all you will be doing is increasing workload of the moderators, admins and myself which will eventually lead to a banning and a deletion of your handywork.

As an example I will use 411a. Whilst much of what he writes is controversial and some comments are designed to provoke a reaction such as mention of the 49ers or "not another co-pilot..." he does not descend into personal abuse and anyone who cannot reply with a reasoned counter argument, one that doesn't involve abuse, should not reply at all. If you have nothing constructive to counter an argument then don't reply at all. By descending into personal abuse you have lost the argument and taken the bait. It takes a mature and intelligent person to be able to just ignore a comment they don't like and by doing so, do more to show that the original comment that caused the anger is indeed just a reflection of the posters ignorance in the first place.

Moving on to 'enthusiasts', whilst you are free to read and learn what you can from the content of these forums, unless you are actually involved in the industry then please post any questions or views in the forums that are set up to cater for you. Reporting Points specifically is for news that directly involves professioanl pilots, directly or indirectly. I will leave a topic if I think it has relevance and a decent debate can be conducted. The current 'hot topic' "I am an army of one" is an example. It is a debate on how we view our current working conditions and is open for comments from anyone in the industry, especially management and pilots, but has unfortunately been hijacked by some individuals who are too busy with their own agendas and haven't the intelligence to comprehend the red writing.

Whilst I and the other moderators do our best to try and monitor the threads, many of you seem to forget that we do this in our spare time, in my case between a series of night flights for example and if there is no one around to check on a thread for a while that doesn't mean we will leave all posts intact when we do get around to reading them. It also means that we sometimes leave borderline posts because there are just not enough hours in the day for us to edit every single item. I am sure that some of you think PPRuNe is some sort of big organisation with offices and loads of staff. I wish! It is a bulletin board which has grown into an internatioanlly recognised forum and too many people do not read the red writing which leads to posts such as this one.

Finally, remember that what we write here is read by a much wider audience and if you are not a professional pilot or involved in the industry and you make a post on here that shows this to be the case your work will be edited or deleted. Too many people try to hijack this forum for their own, non professional aviation agendas and the time has come for a clampdown.

You have been warned!

As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent. In fact the press may use it, or the unscrupulous, to elicit certain reactions.

[chiglet]

Rock on, Danny :)
100 pc agreement
we aim to please, it keeps the cleaners happy

[Engineer]

Sad to say but you will never convince everyone so maybe a suggestion would be to increase the patrols or more moderators

Happy kicking off and enjoy your spare time

[Hugh De Payen]

That was a long time coming Danny, I just hope that people are actually intelligent enough to understand it.

[twistedenginestarter]

Maybe I've not been looking at PPRuNe enough recently but I'm slightly at a loss as to what has caused this. You mentioned non-commercial postings and verbal abuse but seem to primarily concerned with presumably the press, or the unscrupulous, eliciting certain reactions.

Your posting was quite long but seems to be saying "you know who I talking to and you know what you've done wrong". What happens if they don't?

Maybe you could be more specific, perhaps like this:

1 We have some rules on PPRuNE. If you break them we will punish you by deleting your entries and maybe disabling your user id.

The rules are

2a Do not pretend to be someone you are not

2b Do not say something authoritatively if you are not an authority.

2c Do not start or spread rumours you have reason to believe have no basis.

2d Do not make defamatory statements or representations that convey an unjustly unfavorable impression about a person or organsisation, or make statements without just cause and tending to expose people or organisations to public contempt.

...

2j Do not make personally offensive remarks just because you disagree with what someone is saying. Ignore postings that you feel are facetious or are making offensive remarks to you.

...

2x Do not copy information published elsewhere (eg news)

2y Do not post items in Reporting Points which relate to any aspect of aviation that is not commercial. This forum is for commercial issues - not simply for things of interest to commercial airline personnel.

....


If you made out a specific set of rules like this you could then put it in FAQ.

[THINALBERT]

Totally agree with you Danny, but I fear that you have become a victim of your own success.

For your own personal and deserved reward, and to keep more tabs on who is posting what, do you not think it is about time that some form of subscription charge is made. I certainly would be willing to pay 50$ a year if it kept the PROFESSIONAL pilots rumour network PROFESSIONAL.

[zippyz]

Gidday Dan,
Mate I and many others are so glad to see your post. I have for a long time pretty much avoided PPRUNE due to the dross it has gathered over the last few years. Your words are the best news since you changed from the old personal email list to the Bulletin Board format. This was a forum for Professional Pilots and I sincerely hope that it returns to that.
Dan thanks once again for all the PPRuNe teams efforts, and yours in particular!
:)
zip out

[crundale]

I agree with just about everything Capt Pprune said. However the last few posts are a bit worrying.
I am not a pilot but work in ground ops. The big issues effect me as much as they effect pilots. While I agree totally that gossip, name calling, libel, abuse etc is not to be tolerated, and that abuses of anonymity are also to be clamped down on, I feel the forums are best served by being available to anyone, pilot or not.
A charge would reduce the number of subscribers and contributors and probably leave only pilots.
You guys need to listen to alternative voices and opinions sometimes, and remember that you are one part of a very big team. You may get the stress and the responsibility, but you get the rewards, and without the rest of us you'd lose the lot, and vice versa of course!
This is a great site, important to the whole industry, and maybe a better protection would be to restrict more forums the way the private airline forums are run. Prove your relevancy to the industry and get in. And if we continue to abuse it, then I guess we've blown it for ourselves - stick a charge on and we'll leave you alone.

[N380UA]

Hi Danny,

I absolutely agree with your sticky. The importance of anonymity is, in my opinion, especially important (for our own safety) as this is a public forum with all kinds of people able to monitor what we (I) may say. I really don’t feel like to justify my options and doings to people who have no real understanding of the subject matter. I currently don’t fly actively anymore though I am still very much involved in aviation in terms of SID and STAR engineering or the implementation of a G-BAS system and the likes. Those of you familiar with the airport ops know that we have to deal with neighbouring countries and surrounding airport communities about noise and safety issues and a great deal of people actually feel the need to attack us in some way or shape.

Of course, we amongst this industry may differ on points within a discussion and I have absolutely no objections of disclosing my identity if I can be assured that my identity stays within this circle and is being handled with due respect.

Since I currently don’t belong to any airline, the specific airline forums are of limits to me as they should be, though I was asking my self if Pprune could not altogether be accessible only to those who are really involved in aviation whatever their current job may be, perhaps even through a one time processing fee of some sort. Naturally, such forums as Wannabes should be open to all so that aspiring aviation professionals can enjoy some inside help and information.

I don’t know if such “proving” of members is even possible, it was just a though. I guess, as some have already mentioned before, we either shape up or ship out. On the other hand, like crundale said, many non-flying industry colleges have a genuine interest and contribution value.

[Nearly Man]

Good point, well presented. At least it's been said now!

[daidalos]

Well said, fair warning. Now, it remains to be seen, if it was understood!
:cool:

[blended winglet]

Danny, affirm;

I agree with what you've said, perhaps it's time to introduce a
password entry onto this forum to ensure that it is not abused - similar to the airline forums password system.

[gaunty]

And of course there is always the Ten Thingies!

[Konkordski]

A password security system with a subscription charge makes sense -- not only would it provide a barrier to the muck-spreaders but also assist with funding the chatroom.

[126.9]

Anyone who has a background in human behaviour knows that even the most "normal" humans resort to sub-intelectual behaviour, when allowed anonymity, argument and opinion all wrapped up in one. I sympathise with DF and his staff entirely. I wish however to point out that his "warning" contains no less than two or three direct insults and inapropriate statements; considering that they come from the manager (owner) of the world's most popular aviation conversation forum. In my own opinion, he could deal with this matter more effectively.

[Burger Thing]

I would appreciate if something would be done against this obvious Ryanair bashing. It is not only boring, it is in the meantime highly annoying. :mad:

[machone]

While agreeing with what is said. people who want to "cause trouble" would still pay to get their enjoyment. Too many clubs are for members only, who decides who is good member materila. Everyone in aviation has something to add, not all may be the most relevant, but the old grey pilots have something to teach the young bold pilots (no offence ment to anyone)!!!!!!

[JW411]

Paying a subscription and having an entry password system might or might not work but a comprehensive and stringent spelling test on first application should do the trick!

[PaulDeGearup]

Danny,

would you mail me at [email protected] please.

I have some info for you regarding the decision of certain learned friends about PPrune.

[Wide-Body]

Hi Burger Thing

You Said

"I would appreciate if something would be done against this obvious Ryanair bashing. It is not only boring, it is in the meantime highly annoying. "

I'm afraid you will have to develop a bit of a thicker skin. At a local flying club the Go and Ryanair boys were taking flak. It made a nice change from the Birdseed boys needing tin hats. I always thought the banter and the ability to give and the P*$$ was a pre requisite.

Give a little out. The press have jumped on one point; Ryanair reacted (who said it was them anyway). Only you at Ryanair know how true it is. When you have figured it out, then apply same logic to every BA (read every airline) press snippet you have read.

Happy flying and safe flying

Regards

Wide:)

Edited to add smile

[Hudson Bay]

Do not forget chaps : LIFE IS A GAME

[Kerosene Kraut]

I agree with Capt. PPRuNes points and I will agree with every rule he wants on his forum. But would we really need a different "official" approach to treat things? I mean after all it is just a rumour's network. Whoever clips info from PPRuNe is just talking about a rumour. That should provide enough protection for posters and debaters. I very much enjoy the debating side of this great forum and would hope for it to last. Why not keep it as the speakers corner of our industry? As one other poster before mentioned: It is all about many people with many professions and standpoints contributing to the same business.

[B Sousa]

WOW, thats a bunch of stuff........Maybe if I was anonymous I wouldnt show how dumb I really is.....For those of you who want to see how bad Non-Registered and Anonymous posts can go, enter the Forum at www.justhelicopters.com No control whatsoever and utter chaos when it comes to getting a good answer.
I think enough of this forum to use my own name, besides, I cant use the Anonymous name Ass**** It was given to me by my ex-wife.

[AMEX]

I agree with Thin Albert. Perhaps we could keep the Wannabe's free of charge so the usefulness of Pprune wouldn't be denied to whoever wish to enter the industry but I would also agree with a more restricted access to the other forums (fori??), where Professionals (aviation and aerospace related) could gather.
I would gladly pay my membership to make up for the potential loss of income coming from advertising. Then again if it wasn't enough, perhpaps leave Pprune the way it is, with its vast audience and let's have some sort of "Professionals" forum with restricted access.
Seems always easier than it is anyway ;)

Have a good week end all

[Captain Stable]

And how do we ensure that only "professionals" get into the "Professionals" forum?

My personal view, which does not in any way necessarily represent the views of anyone else, alive or dead, is that PPRuNe benefits greatly from the views of all who are interested in aviation, and a very high proportion of those are not pilots, cabin crew, regular passengers, dispatchers, ATCOs, baggage handlers, journalists or even airline management.

The posters I find personally irritating come from all sectors, and they are the wind-up merchants - those who are only interested in stirring it, not in finding any enlightenment, assistance or in provoking thoughtful conversation, just in seeing how many they can annoy the hell out of.

Judging from how many hits the site gets daily, it works pretty well as it is.

[rover2701]

hey Captain Stable
Once again the great unwashed Engineers has been missed from your list of interested parties.
Why is this?
Now back to topic, How about making a small charge and also to state licence number when applying for membership of Pprune.
I am sure that would encompass most in the industry and where others are unlicenced they could be vetted on an individual basis.

[Captain Stable]

Oops - sorry Rover. No disrespect intended. As I was typing it, I was sure I had missed someone off, but in my advancing years I couldn't think who the heck it was - many apologies! Greatest respect for engineers - they've saved pilots from the worst effects of their errors on several occasions (both the airborne and the ground varieties). A tad ungrateful, therefore, to have neglected them on this occasion. They have, of course, also contributed much of great value to PPRuNe. The worth of the airborne variety continues despite all beancounters' efforts to kill them off - VC10, L1011, DC10, Concorde, B727, A300, 74C etc. etc., plus the worth of the ground-based variety will never end.

Long may they (and many others) continue to enhance the worth of PPRuNe to all!

[N380UA]

rover

Good idea only, how are the moderators gonna check all the applications from around the world? I could imagine that the FAA for example, would be reluctant to hand out such information, especially with renewed threat form terrorist cells around the world. If proof must be provided, it must be gone through the applicant in an easy, electronic fool-proof way

[AeroBoero]

N380UA;

I don't know if you know, but you CAN actually find all information from a pilot with an FAA certificate on their website. Provide me your name and I tell you where you live and what ratings you have. Also (just to mention) the Brazilian CAA (DAC) have this info online now. Only they require our license number. But don't give away the address. Only ratings.I think this will become a tendency of the CAA's around the world. Better would be that no info would be distributed at all (personal opinion), but......

As for PPRuNe; good the way it is. Is the people who tend to lose control and/or fall for the wind-up bait who go most out the line. Like life....you can't please everyone every time. Capt. (and everyone who gives time to help him) has a great task with this forum. The people here should sometimes ask if they could do such a thing. I guess what the answer would be. I know I can't or couldn't.

[OzExpat]

The concept of subscription fees, membership fees or whatever you want to call it, has been canvassed before. In fact, it was actually tried with a forum that was setup specially for it. It was a massive failure and I'm fairly sure that PPRuNe management won't be in a hurry to try the idea again anytime soon - unless their hand is forced by other events, of course.

I'm sure that the Admins will be able to tell you more about that attempt to accede to their members wishes. And, yes, the push had come from Prooners, well, some of them anyway.

As for the concept of proving our entitlement to a particular forum by, for example, quoting a licence number, WON'T ALWAYS WORK. The fact is that there are folks on here from many other, perhaps less advantaged parts of the world, where the Aviation Regulator doesn't provide any licensing information online. Yes, I'm in one of those places, but I'm far from being the only one in that situation.

Danny and Co have a very difficult time running this place and I, for one, have no problem with abiding by their rules. And, if they end up having to impose a membership fee of some sort, I will be happy to pay it.

[Romeo Delta]

Maybe a word from the "non-pro" here.

I admit it. I am walking freight. I am a non-professional (although at one time I was in training to be). However, I fly as a passenger frequently (American citizen living abroad),and thus appreciate all the information I receive on this site from "those in the know."

As you can probably tell, I don't post much. Why? Because I'm NOT a pro. Unless there is something that someone from the back seat can add, I don't need to add it.

The reason I say this is that, while there is a general sentiment that we non-pros are a menace to this forum group, there are those of us out there who just plainly enjoy reading what is said by you "real" pilots (and engineers, et al.) without being a thorn in your side.

Also, there has been a lot of talk in certain threads about how the media like to sensationalize, and if only they could see how the professionals view these incidents, the media might do a better job. Well, if you shut down the forums to all but the "pros," then you shut out those who might see how things REALLY are. Aren't there a couple journo's out there who read this forum?

Some of the ideas presented here have merit, but I would hope that you would at least let us, "we of the great unwashed masses who ride your wings," continue to read these forums. Maybe only "pros" can post, but everyone can read.

Anyway, that's my .02 Euros (adjusted for inflation)...

[basil fawlty]

I must admit that in the past I have perhaps been viewed as an "offender" on these forums. However I have merely expressed my personal opinion on the subject being debated, no more and no less, and also, I hope, provided some useful FACTS to some people via forums such as Tech Log....
I am not a "wind up" merchant, I have merely stated my views in response to others in a somewhat lucid way, but only because some posts have driven me to distraction with their pompous "I'm right and you're so wrong" attitude. For example, (and there are others, I'm just picking one for illustrative purposes!!) how come its okay for the numerous "representatives" of Big Airways to air their views/ grievances etc. in a public forum, but as soon as a different or counter view is expressed it is deemed to be insulting, defammatory (spelling??) or whatever? Smacks of hypocricy it seems to me, and yet another indication that there is definately an "establishment" in the British aviation industry which has found its way on to pprune. If such individuals did not so easily and readily take up the bait and come back with their flaming and put downs then the "wind up" brigade would not have a market for their particular fetish would they??
As I have stated in other posts, if others were more accepting of my particular viewpoint (which is formulated through my personal experience in the industry) then I would certainly be more accomodating towards their views, but oh no, they want it all their own way all the time. Maybe its really an inferiority complex, or is it just sheer arrogance?? Who knows?? All I can say here is that if they are allowed to post their comments in a "carte blanche" manner then I think that it is reasonable to post a reposte whenever required, and I will do so...(minus the swearing in future!!)
Danny, pprune moderators, et al, I joined pprune because it is immensely interesting to know what is happening in other airlines and sectors of the air transport industry, to find out what is really happening with the guys and girls on the ground (not having to read that press release twoddle that gets published in mags such as Flight International) and also, I have this perhaps naive hope that it is to the benefit of everybody at the sharp end of the business.
Yes, I think that pprune would benefit from restricted professional membership in certain forums, although I thought that this already existed in the airline forum list! I would certainly submit licence details ( pilot, flight engineer, and maintenance engineer) if it puts an end to the continual "slagging off" and the endless arguments that can never be resolved that goes on here. On the other hand, why not just ban personal opinions and let pprune exist to do what it does best, the free exchange of infomation and rumours which anyone is free to interpret and use as they choose, free of airline management and industry propaganda.

[JW411]

basil fawlty:

I have just read your posting and I would have to say that you would have failed my proposed entry-level spelling examination in spades!

I am sure that you are a really nice guy but you would be able to argue your point to much greater effect if you were, at the very least, to use the spell-checker with which most computers are equipped.

[The mole]

Perhaps there are two separate issues here:

1) Non-industry individuals who lack enough knowledge to contribute to discussions etc

2) As professional pilots we are trained to make decisions in potentially life-threatening situations that must ALWAYS be right. Therefore we are ALWAYS right. Not. Put five of us in a bar, add alcohol and we'll all agree, won't we? Now get 50 000 of us on a website, and there is an inevitable difference of opinion that will lead to flaming and personal insults. Just do not take it too seriously, that's all.

Perhaps the answer is licence numbers or staff numbers. Or how about an IQ test, or a sense of humour test.....


Keep safe

[MrNosy]

I don't think the idea of charging a subscription to use PPRuNe would work. It would probably destroy the site since, I guess, most of us could not be bothered to make the payment - we're all lazy - and it would not stop rubbish being posted, we'd just have to pay to read it.

I don't think limiting the site just to 'pilots' would work either, pilots are as capable of posting uninformed rubbish as the rest of us and, as others have pointed out, non-pilot's may have a valuable contribution to make to a thread. (I'm ex ATC but have worked for a firm of aviation insurance loss adjusters for many years now).

Having said what I don't think will work, I'm afraid I don't have a magic answer as to what will, other than continued policing by the moderators. Unlike some other similar sites PPRuNe seems to be far better at keeping the rubbish down so they are doing a good job.

[747-436]

If this site started using subscriptions for members how would it be administered. As there are some 50,000 members on this site and probarly numerous guests even if just half of these people subscribed PPRuNe would surely need to employ people to administer it as I am sure Capt PPRuNe et al could not sort out 20,000 + subsriptions in their spare time. Good idea but whether it is feasible is another matter.

[B Sousa]

JW411
Three things important in the Military are Shoot, Move and Communicate. Important here is the ability to Communicate. Those who get critical of ones grammer/spelling seem to be a bit Anal. As in cant see the Forest for the Trees. I, for one, am not a Rhoades Scholar. I mispell words and use bad grammer, but my ability to get my message across has been good enough to get me pulled from the forum a couple times. Thats Communication.

[The Mistress]

As one who has been libelled on both Jet Blast and the Military Forum I feel compelled to comment here. I was accused of being involved in an occupation which is illegal in my country of residence.

This was nothing to do with my knowledge (or lack of) aviation matters. It was purely a personal attack.

Yes, this BB IS read far and wide. The comments made against myself have caused me no end of problems with nazi bully boys and their partners in my local area.

I have no idea what these people are trying to achieve but they are behaving like complete a-holes. I can't move house because my offspring has 2 more academic years to serve at the local school. Besides which, I wouldn't give them the satisfaction of thinking they had driven my family out of town.

One compensation is that I have received e-mails from the real Moritz Suter who, of course, completely disassociated himself with the creature who haunted Jet Blast.

I disagree with Danny that it is immature to respond to such wind up merchants. When someone is causing damage (perhaps deliberately) then people in my situation should be allowed the right of reply.

I also note that Danny DOES respond to threads concerning Judaism and the Isreali/Palestinian conflict. This is a subject dear to his heart and is bound to touch a nerve.

If my nerve has been touched, then I too WILL respond.

I think this is a great site and will continue to read it as long as I have time and I will continue to post as long as I am allowed to. My experiences here are mostly positive. I have made some truly wonderful friends through the site and learned a great deal. I have been highly amused by some and touched by the plight of others.

LLoNg Live PPruNe :)

[JW411]

B Sousa:

I'm really sorry about this but I fear that you and I have a bit of a difference of opinion about the art of effective communication.

You are telling me that in effect you are too idle to use your spell-checker. This makes me wonder what else you can't be bothered to check when you go flying.

Accuracy is important. There is a huge difference between a hanger and a hangar for example. Try putting your helicopter in one of the former at the end of the day.

Your contention that verbal or phonetic communication is good enough for you reminds me of the famous yarn about the chap right on the front line who sent the message back to HQ by word of mouth "send reinforcements, we're going to advance". By the time it got to HQ it had turned into "send three and fourpence, we're going to a dance"!

Not that I ever went to university, I believe that a Rhodes scholarship will ensure entry into one of the Oxford universities. A Rhoades scholarship probably wouldn't even get you on to a bar stool in the University Arms.

I am not quite sure what to make of your military comments but since I only managed to fly in the military for 18 years (without a single desk job) I shall happily bow to your superior knowledge.

[amos2]

You are joking, of course, JW411, aren't you?
Aren't you?
Please don't tell us that you really do take yourself, and life, that seriously!!

[B Sousa]

JW411
You made my point. You got my message and it didnt take a dictionary.... Its sort of KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid.) Me being a simple person....and barely above the double digit IQ.
As to Shoot, Move and Communicate.. Im surprised if you served in the military you never heard that. If you deprive the enemy of his ability to do any one of those you gain tactical advantage.
Oh Well, I just fly Helicopters, don't need all those big words..anyway havent got time to pronounce them while flying. "Aw Sh**" is big enough.

[JW411]

amos2:

Of course I take myself that seriously. After all, the only three things that are important in my life are spelling, grammar and punctuation. Nothing else matters.

I have even made a life-long habit of asking young ladies when first we meet if they can spell "paraffin". If they cannot do this straight away without reference to a dictionary then I will proceed no further.

Certainly matrimony should never be considered unless your partner has a complete command of the use of the apostrophe. Using the aberrant apostrophe has ruined many a good marriage.

B Sousa:

I congratulate you on your last posting - what a wonderful improvement it is.

I raised my eyebrows about your military statement of "Shoot, Move and Communicate". This could just be in the wrong order where I come from and might just explain why 25 British soldiers were annihilated by American A-10s in the Gulf War.

Perhaps if it had been "Communicate, Shoot and Move" then they would still be alive?

[B Sousa]

JW411

You sure know how to stir the pot.

"raised my eyebrows about your military statement of "Shoot, Move and Communicate". This could just be in the wrong order where I come from and might just explain why 25 British soldiers were annihilated by American A-10s in the Gulf War."
I think that statement above is a bit harsh. I understand the order of the words, I was simply stating the words in no specific order. You have to remember "Friendly Fire, Isnt". I dont know of any war yet where We havent killed our own by accident. In fact I think we may have killed more in training for Desert Storm than occurred in combat (did I spell that right??)
Anyway, enough of this, you look for the girl who can spell Paraffin, I will look for the one who wants me to rub it all over her.......

[JW411]

B Sousa:

Just make sure that you do use paraffin and not JP4. The fire risk is well worth considering.

[OzExpat]

As these are anonymous forums the origins of the contributions may be opposite to what may be apparent. In fact the press may use it, or the unscrupulous, to elicit certain reactions.

The above says it all, really...