Brown Field mid-air collision preliminary NTSB report

[peekay4]

As the original thread apparently got deleted...

http://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief.aspx?ev_id=20150816X60452&key=1

Witnesses observed the accident airplanes on the downwind leg of the traffic pattern at SDM. The witnesses turned momentarily, but then observed an explosion followed by sections of the airplanes falling to the ground. Another witness located about 2 miles east-northeast of SDM observed both airplanes at the same altitude, flying towards each other. The smaller airplane was flying from the airport, and the larger airplane was flying to the airport and descending. He stated that both airplanes did not appear to have made any avoidance actions prior to the collision. After the collision, the smaller airplane broke apart; the larger airplane banked left, impacted the ground and exploded.

[highlandpark]

Thanks for posting the NTSB report.

I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHY THE ORIGINAL THREAD HAS BEEN DELETED AND WHY MY POSTS ARE NOT VISIBLE.

To the best of my knowledge I am in compliance with PPRUNE's rules.

[White Knight]

Sorry fellah but what/which accident are we looking at here?

(Can't open the link)

[barit1]

5 Killed After Two Planes Collide Midair Near Brown Field Municipal Airport: Authorities | NBC 7 San Diego (http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local/Reports-of-Plane-Down-Otay-Lakes-Road-Officials-321995182.html)

[RF4]

The link to the NTSB initial report works fine now

http://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb.aviation/brief.aspx?ev_id=20150816X60452&key=1

Midair apparently on downwind leg at Brown. Cessna outbound - pilot deceased. Sabreliner inbound - 2 pilots, 2 passengers deceased. No survivors. Should never have happened !

[The Ancient Geek]

Something odd is going on here.
Both aircraft at the same height on the downwind leg of the circuit (traffic pattern). So far nothing unusual.

Why were they travelling in opposite directions ?
They should both have been talking to the tower.

[Luc Lion]

Hard to think of a scenario where one witness could see both airplanes on the same downwind leg and, a moment later, another witness see them flying towards each other.
Unless the C172 was extending its downwind and the SBR1 was on base leg from an outer downwind.
And the 2nd observer is in the quadrant opened by the 2 airplane tails.
This would also match the 2 debris field positions.

Luc

[RF4]

Your scenario seems to make some sense, otherwise it is difficult to picture. Although 2nd witness could have been in the opposite quadrant ( between noses). SBR1 was on a wider downwind, which would make sense because of speed differential. Cessna was departing circuit straight out from downwind ( or perhaps cleared for right turn out but turned early ). SBR1 turned base and had no visual on the Cessna - would the sun have been in the SBR1's eyes ?

Obviously no visual by either, although if the above is true, the Cessna would not have seen the SBR1. Where was the tower ? Where they in contact ?

The many times I have flown in and out of Brown Field, I was always wary of the mixed traffic, whether on prop ( private ) or jet ( Navy Dept).

[pattern_is_full]

SBR1 turned base and had no visual on the Cessna - would the sun have been in the SBR1's eyes ?

At midday (11 a.m.) in summer, unlikely.

If you want "odd" - the Sabre lost its right wing but banked left after the collision? Figure that one out.

But it is a preliminary report - more or less, "Umm, yeah - the aircraft collided." More will emerge - eventually.

[Geosync]

The NTSB prelim reports can be notoriously inaccurate. They're under pressure to get something out asap, especially for high profile cases(turbine equipment and multiple fatalities). They'll get to the bottom of it eventually, but I am curious to hear the ATC recordings.

[barit1]

From a 2009 final probable cause accident report: "A Federal Aviation Administration inspector examined the airplane on the day of the accident and found three of the four wings and the empennage separated from the airplane."

The aircraft is a monoplane.

Nicely done, Feds.

[matador15]

Any updates , or more information regarding this accident ??

[ironbutt57]

the force of the impact could have very well forced the airplane to roll left as the wing separated...

[westhawk]

As the original thread apparently got deleted...

Not exactly deleted, just hidden (http://www.pprune.org/accidents-close-calls/566274-fatal-mid-air-collision.html) down in the new sub forum "Accidents and close calls"!

westhawk