Trial Flights

[g_conaty]

I have been trying to start my PPL for a while now but couldnt because of financial reasons.

I practicly know the Trevor Thom Flying Training manual inside out and have been told by my local aero club that i have to have a trial flight before i start the course.

Fare enough, but my question is, what will happen on the trial flight and will my knowledge flying training so far be an advantage to me or will i still have to go through everything in detail like students do with no knowldege at all.

Any replies would be appreciated. Thank you

[sunnysideup]

In its strictest sense, there's actually no such thing as a Trial Lesson. Its just a lesson, normally the first one, "effects of controls".

It will count towards your minumum 45 hours.

If its done properly, you'll get a good briefing from the instructor first. Then you'll sit in the left hand seat and get some hands on flying to put the theory discussed in the briefing into practice. Just like every other lesson.

Schools use the term "Trial Lesson" only in a marketing sense, either to encourage a wouldbe student to have a go or as a gift voucher with the hope that the recipient gets adicted to flying and carries on with a PPL.

Couple more points.

Thoms books (or any others) are only a good background to flight training. Good training starts with a good brief, one on one, and could be specific to the aircraft type you're about to fly or to the local area etc. The book, even if you know it word perfect, is no replacement to time in the briefing room.

Given the above, I can't understand why your chosen school demand you do a trial lesson.

Do they charge more for a so-called "Trial Lesson" for an hour in the aircraft compared to their normal hourly rates? In which case, it may be a good indicator of the type of school you should avoid.

Or are you thinking of parting with some cash upfront, in which case it makes sense to "try before you buy" and therefore it appears to be a trustworthy, respectable establishment.

Good Luck! It will be the best thing you ever do!!!!!!!!!!

:D

[cwatters]

Take the trial lesson. After that the serious work begins so it's
good to get a pressure free flight in. It also gives the instructors
chance to get to know you. The more the instructor knows and
understands your strenghts and weaknesses the sooner you will
solo. Try and get a trial lesson with the same instructor you will
have on the course if that's possible.

You will get more out of your trial flight if you tell the pilot that you
are signing up for the PPL course. Tell him you would like it to be
a constructive flight and less of a joy ride. Unless you want to go
see your house from the air? Normally a good instructor will ask
you anyway.

You could even get a log book before the trial. Ask the instructor
to show you how to write it up (even if you already know how) as he will probably then initial it for you. That way you won't think of
it as a 'wasted' time.

If you are worried about the cost of the trial you probably won't
be able to afford to remain current after qualifying. Perhaps it's worth thinking about gliding instead it's quite a bit cheaper and
every bit as challenging. I prefer it myself.

[BEagle]

The first lesson must be tailored to the student's needs. Some may never have been near a light ac before and the noise, vibration and sensation of being airborne in a little aeroplane may be all they can take in. Introduce only those formal items of training which the student can cope with and don't try to cover all of EoC 1, for example, if the student is still getting over the 'isn't this great' sensation. Make it a shortish trip - about 45 min and whatever you do DON'T rush things!

I don't quite see the point someone made that 'trial lessons' should be offered at a discounted rate - that could well lead to the Authority viewing them as thinly-disguised joy rides. It is also important that the training organisation only offers such flights to those who might then continue with learning to fly. Selling someone a 'trial lesson voucher' who is only going to use it for a birthday present or whatever and who has no intention of carrying on with flying afterwards might generate income, but is virtually selling joy rides without meeting the legal requirements for such activity.

[foxmoth]

I agree with conaty, it seems a bit sus that a school INSISTS on a trial lesson, as said before any lesson should be tailored to the student, how far along he is and how capable. A trial lesson is usually a set price, and a set duration, whearas normal lessons are a little more flexible on duration.
I would look carefully at WHY the school is insisting on this, and if not satisfied go elswhere. ( nothing to do with affording this, just the attitude of the school)

[sunnysideup]

The four main points here seem to be, IMHO:

1. Theres no such thing as a "Trial Lesson". It's the first lesson and a good instructor will maximise its value to the individual requirements of the student, including a briefing.

2. The question seemed to be "Do I need to go through all this as I've read Thoms One over and over?". The answer is clearly "YES YOU DO". Its a lesson, with a briefing, like any other, and it will maximise the use of the time in the air.

3. Why is the school demanding a trial lesson?. If they charge more than normal, ask a question. The only reason I can really think of is that its a school that takes some form of advanced payments and this is a "try before you buy".

4. Do it. You'll love it!!!:D

BEagle

I'm not advocating cheaper charges for trial lessons as some way to avoid AOC issues. If my sources are correct, you can get what used to be called a "seasonal AOC" for £80ish each month covering A to A flights, so theres no point in cheating the system.

As a secondary response, I offered that most schools do sell what they call "Trial Lesson Gift Vouchers". Be interesting to know the true legal position on this. The only reference I have to hand is GASIL (March, 2002):

" A trial lesson is simply a first lesson which may or may not be followed by subsequent lessons" and "A trial lesson is an instructional flight and should be conducted as such".

The general gist is that it only becomes an AOC flight if there are additional paying passengers (as opposed to non-paying ones, which is OK)

At the risk of changing the course of the thread, it would be useful to know both the views of others and the legal position.

[Whirlybird]

A trial lesson is not necessarily a joyride just because the person doesn't carry on flying, or has no intention of doing so. A lot of people would like to have a go at flying. Don't many of us find this to be the case with our passengers? And I've met a few people who've been bought trial lessons as presents, have loved it, but have no way of affording the money and/or time to continue.

When I took a trial helicopter lesson I had no intention of carrying on (OK, I did, but that's another story). But I wouldn't have been interested in a joyride; I wanted to get my hands on the controls!

[foxmoth]

At the end of the day if the person taking the flight is NOT handling the controls it is a Pleasure flight, if that person is handling the controls it should be under instruction and is a flying lesson!

[g_conaty]

The aero club im going to charges 105 pound for a 1 hour "trial lesson" and then 95 pound and hour for normal PPL training.
The main purpose of my question was:

With my knowledge of lying training and my familiarisation with the cockpit so far, will this reduct the amount of time taken before i go solo?

I was also wondering whether or not i should buy a log book before i go for this introductory lesson next week.

The aero clubs main aim for the trial lesson is to give students the oppurtunity to witness what its like flying in a light aircraft for th first time while giving them the oppurtunity to take the controls in flight.

Anyway, thanks for the replies and does anyone think i should get a log book for the instructor to sign on the "trial lesson" or will he not sign it.

Thanks

[SteveR]

So, they're asking a tenner extra for the first lesson. Big deal. It's a drop in the ocean of cash you're about to part with.

It might indicate that the school has different idea about trail lessons, or even that they have a different set of ideas about the whole. Let's face it, you're not going to find out until you've either used them for a while, or done a lot of research by getting to know them, their students, and the instructors.

You could try trail lessons with several schools - all the flights would be loggable and *could* count towards the minimum requirement. They'd probably all cover the same exercises, 1-4, and I believe the logbook needs to show that the student has covered the full syllabus, so you'd still need to cover 5,6,7 etc etc later on.

You don't need to have your book signed at all. If you have a lesson with an instructor who you may not fly with again, you might want to note his/her licence number - you might even want an autograph 'cos it was so good!!

When my logbook was sent away for the licence application, the CFI wrote something about certifying that the entries were a true record, and put his licence number. He did this after I got a flight school (with whom I'd had a trial lesson 3 years earlier) to confirm it, and give me the intructor's name. I did this just because I want my personal logbook to be dead accurate, not because I'd done the course super fast and needed to scrape up the min. hours.

Fare enough, but my question is, what will happen on the trial flight and will my knowledge flying training so far be an advantage to me or will i still have to go through everything in detail like students do with no knowldege at all. .

The trial flight will normally be exercises 1-4, and your existing knowledge will help, as it will throughout the course. Loads of theoretical knowledge is essential in flying, so's loads of practical, loads of mechanical, loads of meteorology........


Steve R

[Whirlybird]

"With my knowledge of lying training and my familiarisation with the cockpit so far, will this reduct the amount of time taken before i go solo?"

In my opinion (and perhaps I should leave this to one of the instructors on here to answer) it's impossible to answer that question. Theoretical knowledge is certainly useful, and well done for knowing so much. But will it help you to go solo quicker? Who knows? There are too many other variables - your own aptitude, the instructor, the aircraft, the weather, the airfield (people tend to take longer at airfields with short narrow runways with obstacles on the approach, not surprisingly). And what's the rush? Time to first solo doesn't have a lot to do with time to PPL, or to ability as a pilot afterwards.

"I was also wondering whether or not i should buy a log book before i go for this introductory lesson next week."

Doesn't matter. Might be nice for you. But the school could probably sell you one. If, as I did, you don't get one for a few weeks, you simply fill it all in afterwards.

A trial lesson is a good way of seeing what you think of the school and the instructor without necessarily committing yourself, and if dissatisfied with either, try a few others before deciding. You're about to spend a shedload of money, and the standard of early training is very important. A bit of extra time and money spent now could save a lot of grief in the longer term.

[juswonnafly]

"With my knowledge of lying training and my familiarisation with the cockpit so far, will this reduct the amount of time taken before i go solo?"

Dunno.....depends on how good a liar you are !!! :D :D :D

Sorry dude, could not resist it :)

My advice would be to take the trial lesson first, that way you do not have to pay a membership fee to have a first lesson and if you don't like the club afterwards you can try elseware.

The flight will be counted towards the issue of your ppl although to get maximum benefit from it tell the instructor that you are serious about learning to fly (despite what many say, the majority of trial lessons are simply joyrides).

Log book? why not? and get the instructor to sign it....no harm.

Enjoy:)

JWF

[Biker Pilot]

g_conaty sed:
> I was also wondering whether or not i should buy a log book before i go for this introductory lesson next week.

You may find that the school issues you with one as part of the price (and hence why the trial is more expensive than an ordinary lesson).

Was the case when I did mine.

Also, it is one thing to have read the books and be keen, and another to actually experience the flight. It is always possible that you find the actual experience is not what you thought and decide against it in the end. Hopefully, though, you will love it!

BP

[Keef]

Biker Pilot is very right!

I have a friend who always wanted to fly. He'd read all the books, played with MSFS far too much for his health, and was dead eager.

He was overjoyed when I offered to take him for a "jolly" - only we didn't get above 800 feet. He was *terrified* - and not because of my flying, either. We did a wide, gentle circuit and landed again.

He "froze" with his hands locked on the coaming. Had it been the yoke, I might not be here now.

He keeps telling me he's OK now and asking for another go. No way!

[notice]

£95 hours are a rip-off, even if you are allowed to pass with the minimum and there are none of the usual extras.
I wouldn't argue against a trial, for all the reasons given above, but don't forget that the main purpose is to snare students.
If you do decide that a PPL is still what you want, don't pay more than £3000 for the course.

[Facts Not Fiction Pls]

I think you should rename yourself:

Choices are as follows:

1. Negative Notice
2. Notice of Doom
3. Dodgey Notices


I wouldn't argue against a trial, for all the reasons given above, but don't forget that the main purpose is to snare students.

A trial flight is hardly a snare; it just tells a potential pilot whether he should keep following his dream. Of course, if it starts him salivating for more then that is good for the school, but he has hardly been snared!!!!! It was his dream to fulfill in the first place!

As for the 3000 quid - what is that based on.... Notices notes;)

Please change your ripped off record; the needle is wearing out the grooves:rolleyes:

[BEagle]

£3000 for 45 hours works out at £66.67 per hour - that's assuming that the groundschool, exams, landing fees and PPL Skill Test are all free of charge.

I can't see many RFs or FTOs being able to afford to offer PPL training at that price. I reckon that around £72 per hour is the very lowest that you could offer on something like a Warrior.

[Evo7]

Facts/BEagle - he's a troll. Ignore him.

[skygazer]

£3000 for a PPL course?? in the UK??? err.......where??;)

[distaff_beancounter]

Now let me see ..... £3,000 inc VAT, = £2,553 exc VAT, divide by 45 hours, for JAA PPL, gives £56.74. per hour.

So, can any decent flying school, finance an aircraft, keep it well maintained on Public C of A, fuel it, insure it, cover the overheads (rent, rates, electricity, telephone, ops staff) AND pay the instructor the National Minimum wage, let alone make a profit, on £56.74 an hour?
:confused:

[Evo7]

I refer the honourable lady to the answer I gave some moments ago :)

[Whirlybird]

Do NOT let low cost be your primary consideration. It's more important that you feel comfortable there, that the school seems to be well run, that you get on with the instructor, and that overall your gut feeling about the place is good.

In aviation, as in most things, you tend to get what you pay for. And some of us have found that out the hard way. :(

[distaff_beancounter]

Evo7 I agree with you entirely :)

But we need the notices of this world, if only to annoy the rest of us, & thus make life, & this forum, more interesting :D :D :D

[sunnysideup]

Think "Notice" should be renamed "Advertising Notice". Only ever came accross one school that did a £3000 PPL and I thought they had moved away from that airfield and were not advertising business from the genmeral public where they are now.

"You get what you pay for" is a lesson hard-learned by most.

If it seems cheap, there has to be a corner or two cut somewhere. It may only lead to more training with any other place you go to fly before they let you lose with their precious aircraft.

An extra tenner will make no difference in the long run. Budget £6000ish and make your decision on aircraft, instructor and the atmosphere in the school. Ask a few students there.

Buy price, buy twice!!

[notice]

Well, bloody hell, the personal abuse proves they don't like the truth, or anyone who tells it.

The trial lesson debate is futile, no-one said don't do it but just beware of the snare and similar sneaky tricks as they have, helpfully, outlined above.

The (around) £3000 JAA-PPL courses are a fact (just look at past and recent Pilot magazines) and it is obvious, if not well-kinown, that several schools have been providing them for years, at the same airfields and, apparently, under the same ownership.

The rip-off conclusion is simple arithmetic, only based on suggestions, NOT from me, of £95 per hour, just for a lesson, and that you should 'budget' £6000, for a course, (=double what you could or should pay).

[PH-UKU]

Notice - '£95 hours are a rip-off' - nonsens. It depends on the ac, and bear in mind that most clubs are trying to keep rates down AND charge a membership fee to cover some of the fixed costs.

THAT is why TLs are more expensive per hr than the equivalent rate for club members. I would say £95 for an hour is excellent value (particularly if it includes the landing fee and instructors fee). A good part of that will also be to cover the extra insurance costs involved with TLs, and if the TLs are done properly there will be about 30mins of ground school beforehand.

Enjoy it, and then keep coming back for more !!

[White_Arc]

Notice,
I am sorry but I have not NOTICED these so called ADs. How big are these AD's ???? Please NOTIFY us all because I would like to informed, if you cannot write the name's of the companies because of so called advertising give us the page numbers and the issue number we will then look for ourselves...:rolleyes:

And if you cannot do that why don't you just give us a rest and GIVE YOUR NOTICE IN and leave this site....

You are becoming boring, you put everything down, you have no hope for anyone, except what you think should be a good price.
I wonder have you ever thought about running a flight school and if so why not write you so called numbers down, and then we can all inspect them, oh yes without cutting any corners....There is somthing really wrong with the sort of price you are talking about, and if you can believe this can be done with safty inmind .....Well :confused:

I think you should change your name to

Notice Nothing

It speaks for itself...........

[Elvis21]

£3000 for a PPL???

What sort of plane is it...... paper?
The best I have seen (in the South East) would work out at roughly £5300.

[sunnysideup]

Notice

I've only ever seen one £3000 PPL advertised in the UK. And I certainly don't want to put that particular outfit down as it has been debated at length in a recent thread. Suffice to to say that £3000, yes a good deal, bought you 45 hours and nothing else. You got what you paid for and the staff there told you so. Not a bad thing, just a different approach.

If you're not advertising for them, I apologise.

However,

£6000ish comes from the following:

An average student takes 55 to 65 hours to complete a PPL. Sure I saw a lot last year who got it in 45 hours. I also saw a lot who took 85 hours. In short 45 hours is a MINIMUM, nothing else.

Add to that books, navigation equipment, you're own decent headset if you feel the need, exam fees and test fees where applied, medical, away landing fees, accomodation if you going away for intensive training......................

You may choose better, newer or bigger aircraft to fly. You may choose to learn at a busy airfield with landing fees and holding times, getting less done each hour but wanting to get used to busy airspace and feeling the need to get your R/T sorted quickly.

If you opt for a £3000 PPL in the States, you still need the flights there, equipment, you may not complete the course in the time and I've never met anyone who didn't feel THEMSELVES they they needed and extra 3-10 hours after a US course to get used to flying in the UK.

If someone new to flying wants to know whats involved then lets at least be honest. Theres more space to give them all the info here than there is in a small advert with an eye-grabbing headline price.

If all this can be done for £3000, any Flying School will give you an Ops job tomorrow!!!!!!

G

You'll see lots of info about the worst in schools and training in these pages. The only way to see the best is to visit a few and meet instructors, students and see the aircraft.

I stand by what I said, just trying to find the cheapest now does not necessarily mean the best or cheapest route to a PPL in the end.

[Penguina]

To return to trial lessons...

I was in a similar situation this time last year, I'd read the training and navigation books and was completely convinced I wanted a PPL and wasn't really sure I should bother with the trial lesson, since the first 'official' PPL lesson basically covers the same ground, only more thoroughly. I turned out to be right - I didn't enjoy the experience particularly because there was very little flying really (also because of a grumpy instructor who obviously wanted to be elsewhere) and didn't feel I really learned anything at all.

When I went on to the first lesson proper the difference was so astoundingly different. The briefing was in real depth, and very interesting, despite being similar to what I'd read. Throughout the flight the instructor (different one) drew it all together in a way that a book can't, explained everything and was really friendly.

Surely if you explain what kind of a student you're likely to be, the instructor (if not the club) will tailor it to your needs?

[28thJuly2001]

"If you do decide that a PPL is still what you want, don't pay more than £3000 for the course."

X 2

[djk]

To be honest I've only seen about one or two ads for PPLs in the region of £3000. although they usually put in the small print that landing fees are not included in the cost.

I had a trial lesson even though I had done some flying before, but the trial lesson was a christmas pressie from the rest of my family.

I wasn't going to pass over the chance of having my first hour of a lesson paid for me :D

[essouira]

A lot of people have offered helpful advice through this thread and I would like to reiterate some of it. I am a flying instructor but am not going to say where as I don't want to be accused of advertising
mr/ms conaty - Choose your school carefully and your instructor even more carefully.
I would be ashamed of anyone at our place who was grumpy and unhelpful to a customer who "just" came for a trial lesson. Any instructor should treat you as someone special - a trial lesson is often a real highspot for someone who may not be able to afford to do any more flying. Unless you say that you just want a jolly, you should get a proper pre-flight brief on the effects of the controls and then, when airborne, have a chance to see them demonstrated and try them all for yourself. When I get people who are dead keen but can't afford to go on, I encourage them to come up to the airfield at weekends and chat to our members, read our magazines etc. I have no interest in "snaring students" as I have more than enough work and we have plenty of students and hirers precisely because we treat people properly.
In an earlier thread, someone suggested using the trial lesson as a way of evaluating a school's and an instructor's attitude to potential students - and I know that some of our recently joined students have tried two or three schools in just that way. They found it helped them to decide.
Good luck wherever you decide to learn.
ps I'm glad I don't have to work at this mythical school where they can do the whole licence for £3K - presumably the instructors there are working for free ! We are comparatively cheap for the south-east but I always tell prospective students that they are likely to spend about £5000 and they shouldn't believe any school who tries to tell them differently.

[Facts Not Fiction Pls]

Sorry to hear about your bad experience.

What you received on the first "proper" lesson should have been the same as the Trial lesson - all comes down to the Instructor!

I hope you mentioned your bad experience to the CFI - some other poor sod may give it all up over that.:(

[DB6]

g-conaty, to go back to your original post, if you have already decided that this is the school you want to learn at and you are sure you want to learn to fly then there is no reason that your first flight should not be your first lesson i.e. effects of controls 1.
It may be the case that this school recommends that you take a trial lesson but it should not insist. It will not reduce the amount of time to first solo - on the contrary if it is not a productive lesson it will increase it.
If you haven't made the final decision about which school to use, my advice to you is to use the nearest one to your home (unless you really don't like it). That way the inevitable cancellations for weather, aircraft u/s etc. will be less of a hassle then if you'd driven 50 miles just to get there.
The fact that you have studied the Thom books in advance does not mean you will have to do less work than other students, it merely means you will get more from the lessons.
Good luck.

[cessnababe]

Only one poster here has realised and made the point that a PPL for £3000 means no pay for the instructor. This thought lies uncomfortably with other threads on this forum relating to work for instructors and whether they can make a living.

The facts of life are that you get what you pay for. if someone is so desperate to fly that they will do it without pay then you must question their motives, particularly if htey have paid upwards of £50,000 to qualify. Does noone have any self-esteem these days?Surely the idea is to improve conditions for instructors. To do this their status and ability needs to be valued so that they are seen to be deserving of adequate remuneration.

In reality PPL instruction in this country is far too cheap, because the margins are too tight for the schools to make a proper profit and when they feel the pinch the first thing they cut is instructor pay. I have been in instructing for ten years and the basic pay has not increased at all, if anything it is less overall. Can this really be right? As other poster have pointed out JAR was supposed to improve conditions for instructors but unless the uneven playing field is levelled, there will continue to be the ridiculourly cheap offers out there undermining the realistic.

Come on chaps it's about time we united to make the industry realise that they have to pay a proper living wage for instructors and to show the schools that they will simply have to charge more. After all whoever heard of a plumber or a car mechanic who charged less than £45 an hour?

[Penguina]

I agree. Probably explains a lot about my first flight. Just as well there are people with a sense of vocation around (like essouira).

[WestWind1950]

Question:

when doing these so-called trial flights, does the "customer" sit in the left or right seat? and does he have his medical? without a medical and being "officially" a student he may not sit in the left seat and is not allowed to put it in his log book!! it is then just a fun flight to get the feeling of it!

or is it allowed in JAR-FCL country? :D we have not put JAR-FCL into law here in Germany, yet, and I would appreciate any experience with it anyone can give...perhaps per e-mail.....or should a new thread be started? :confused:

as said before, reading all the books before hand will not necessarily make the first solo come sooner or reduce the time you need, that depends on a lot of other factors...it may only make future learning for easier...

keep flying!
WestWind1950

[Evo7]

without a medical ... he may not sit in the left seat and is not allowed to put it in his log book!!


Huh? This is news to me - I logged 15 hours P.u/t without a medical. Only needed to get one before I could go solo. This is JAR-FCL land, but not sure that's relevant...

[distaff_beancounter]

WestWind1950

In the UK, on trial flights "the customer" usually sits in the left-hand seat. Instructors have been trained to fly light aircraft from either seat. Training aircraft have full dual controls.

A medical is not actually required until such time as a student goes solo for the first time. Reputable flying schools, usually suggest that a student goes for his first medical, as soon as he has definitely decided that he wants to train for a PPL. This avoids a sudent spending a lot of money before discovering that he cannot get a medical.

So to sum up, on a trial lesson:-

- The "customer" will usually sit in the left hand seat
- The "customer" is a "student pilot" under CAA/JAA regulations
- A medical is not required
- The trial lesson can be entered in the student's log book as PUT (Pilot under training) & signed by the instructor
- This flight will count as part of the minimum hours required for a JAA PPL

The above was the situation in the UK, both before & after the arrival of JAR.

[notice]

To illuminate, for the benefit of the starters (as well as the knockers and schools sneakily selling, on PPRUNE), I have summarised the best offers from July's 'Pilot' magazine.

BTW, I am not recommending anywhere, as individual preferences are different and, if you have plenty of cash and time, you may prefer your local place, rather than a short course.
Also, be warned that any adverts./prices which quote 'per hour' or for a 'course' or 'inclusive' may still require you to spend a lot more money on what they are essential, or other, extras, in order to obtain a valid licence application. Therefore, make sure you get a WRITTEN quote of the cost, of everything involved, direct from ANYWHERE you're considering.

£4050 (CLACTON) 01255 424671
£3995 (PRESTWICK) 01292 476523
$4495 (EFT) 001 561 466 4757
£2695* (OBA) 0800 892133
$3995 (BFC) 001 863 291 0992
£2995 (OFT) 001 407 518 7766

* price 'including night qualification and radio telephony'

[foxmoth]

Back to the origional topic,
£10/hr extra for the T.L. is not much money in the PPL, and £95/hr is a GOOD rate IMHO, the question that needs asking is why is the school INSISTING on this for someone who is going to carry on with a PPL, this actually makes me suspicious of the schools attitude and would steer me to another one, ask what extra do you get for the £10 - maybe do give you a log book or they can knock it off the membership if you go ahead, otherwise tell them you will DO the trial lesson BUT, only if they charge you NORMAL rates .
If they STILL insist on the extra £10 I should go elsewhere, not because of the money but because of the attitude.

[notice]

OK- the original was the truly fascinating trial lesson but £95 per hour is NOT a good rate for SEP training.
I only bothered to react, as above, to prove that point and the various suggestions that JAA PPL courses are not available for around £3000 which, evidently, they are.