9 months of free time. CPL ? IR ? ME ?

[djwam]

Hello,

I am in the envious position of having the next 9 months free, most of them on garden leave, before taking my new job.
I currently only hold a PPL, with 58 hours. My original goal was to be able to take the whole family to France or on trips in Europe, but I don't feel that confident with just that few hours.

So, my question is the following : given I don't intend to have any sort of professional career as a pilot, given I won't work in the next 9 months, what kind of flight training should I be looking for ?

- I thought of getting an IR, but wonder, beyond the cost, whether it is actually safe enough as a PPL holder (without a CPL)
- Another solution would be to go for a CPL ME/IR, but am I right in thinking that it would require ATPL ground courses (and that would be quite a stretch in 9 months) ?
- In other terms, is there a way to just get a CPL/ME/IR for the advanced plane/IR/ME thing, without going the full length with a frozen atpl ?
- Should I head for hours building first ?

So, what would you do ?

[S-Works]

Do the IR exams and the IR. Anything else for what you want to do is a waste of money. Holding a CPL will not make you any safer a pilot than a PPL however the IR will make a huge difference to your ability, capability and safety.

[djwam]

Makes sense. Would you recommend getting a block of hours as well ? It looks like it is recommended to have at least 100hrs, if not 150, before undertaking the IR ?

[Pilot DAR]

Welcome to the group Djwam...

For a PPL, an IR is a confidence builder, and that's good. However, honing your basic flying skills is important too. Consider a tailwheel checkout, and aerobatics course. Your hands and feet skills will improve immensely. If you can find it close by, consider a float rating too...

[FleetFlyer]

I would get a few lessons in a few different disciplines so you can see what really toots your horn. For instance:

Get your tailwheel endorsement and get some strip flying instruction while you're about it.

Do some aerobatics, this and the tailwheel thing will make you a much better pilot from a handling standpoint. We pilots kill ourselves by losing control of the aeroplane when too close to the ground to recover it. Great stick and rudder skills will mitigate this.

Do your IR/R rather than the full IR. It takes fewer hours and for a non-professional pilot it may be more appropriate. You can always upgrade later. It is a good thing to do from a safety aspect, but you can challenge yourself stick and rudder wise every flight, whilst an IR will only keep you safe when you elect to fly in very challenging weather anyway. Unless you're some sort of genius or masochist you may want to leave the full IR until you have a few more hours under your belt.

Build hours as well, but whatever you do, try to challenge yourself on a regular basis. Don't fly the same hour 100 times, try to do something different each time and you'll really benefit.

[djwam]

Thanks for your advice.

No problem on working more on the stick/rudder skills, it all makes sense.
As for the IR, getting just the IR(R) which would be the IMC here in the UK sounds a bit limited, given my goal of getting the IR is to be able to fly to France with less of a concern regarding weather. But I would need to get both the IR(R) in the UK and the IR(R) in France for that ...

Does it make sense to get the full IR, or should I actually get the IMC first, and work for a CBIR ?

[FleetFlyer]

The IR(R) is recognised in France. The full IR is more for airways flying, mixing it with the airliners above 10,000 feet and doing it almost whatever the weather. The IR(R) is more of a basic IR that is supposed to teach you how to safely get yourself on the ground should you fly into IMC. Its still very comprehensive and will certainly improve your flying and is pitched at the right level for cross channel PPLs.

I would think there are almost no PPLs that are not pursuing an ATPL that have a full IR. Of those that do, they'll be flying their own Learjets and piston twins or turbines. The number of single engine piston pleasure drivers with one is probably close to zero in the UK.

[BEagle]

FleetFlyer wrote: The IR(R) is recognised in France.

Oh really? Since when....

[dont overfil]

I would think there are almost no PPLs that are not pursuing an ATPL that have a full IR. Of those that do, they'll be flying their own Learjets and piston twins or turbines. The number of single engine piston pleasure drivers with one is probably close to zero in the UK.

That is definately not the case!
Do the IR.

[FleetFlyer]

!!
Balls! You're quite right, it isn't. I knew you couldn't train for/gain one in France, but I had always thought the rating was recognised. I stand corrected.

[FleetFlyer]

I still don't know of any PPL/IRs flying SEPs. Maybe they move in different circles to me.

[S-Works]

I still don't know of any PPL/IRs flying SEPs. Maybe they move in different circles to me.

Then I suggest you go and visit www.pplir.org and talk to them. A fantastically informative group geared up for the private European instrument pilot. They also have rather a nice book called European Instrument Pilot (I wrote one of the chapters!) that is highly informative.

[ETOPS]

Maybe they move in different circles to me.

You should take up golf FleetFlyer - two such individuals at our club.

[Jonzarno]

Of the options you quote, the IR is the real game changer because of the capability it gives you to fly on non VMC days. I'd also second what Bose - X said: talk to PPL/IR. :ok:

[djwam]

Thanks for all your informative replies.

Yeah, it's a bit of a shame that both the "National IR" from France and IMC in UK fall into the IR(R) category, but both of them are only valid in their own country ...

From what I gather, the full IR would be quite an investment in time and money (and even more so to keep it current), but would allow what I want, that is flight to France in reasonable weather without worrying about VMC/IMV conditions.
There also seem to exist a CBIR that I could potentially get after spending enough time flying with the IMC alone, but the information about it is scarce and I'm not sure it wouldn't be easier to just get the IR...

[FleetFlyer]

I don't think I could afford to fly if I took up golf with any level of commitment. Its fortunate for me that I hate the game with a passion.

Still, looking at the numbers on Bose-X's excellent website, it suggests there are around 100-200 UK based PPL/IRs(admittedly, more than I thought). This is against a background of 20,000 or so PPL holders, so about 0.5 to 1% of PPLs have IRs. (Numbers are from a quick google, your knowledge/sources may be superior) I wasn't able to find any indication regarding how many of these flew exclusively SEP.

I think this lends weight to my supposition that the number of PPL/IRs flying SEP are close to zero. I don't dispute that they exist, just that they are very uncommon. As for the rating greatly increasing one's skills, it surely must.

[S-Works]

You are right the numbers historically were quite low because of the difficulty in obtaining an IR. but thanks to the huge amount of work done by PPLIR and AOPA in relaxing the requirements the IR is a lot easier to achieve now and the numbers are massively on the increase.

As the Head of Training of an ATO we are seeing a big increase in the number of PPLs coming through solely for IR training.

Hopefully over the next few years we will see the uptake of the IR in the percentages that the U.S. has.

I am not a PPL however I use my Cessna SEP for a lot of private IFR flying.

[JOE-FBS]

I have an IR(R) and have been considering options to add EIR or full IR so maybe the notes below will help with some of the apparent confusion above:

IMC Rating, now officially called IR(R): UK ONLY. Can fly in IMC including instrument approaches (with higher minima recommended by CAA than a full IR). Does not give access to Class A. The theory exam is very simple. The IR(R) has been a massive help in my flying in terms of reliability, comfort and safety. I recommend it whole heartedly.

En route IR: EASA qualification. Can fly IMC and allows access to Class A. DOES NOT allow instrument approaches.

IR: EASA qualification, full privileges. Can be passed directly through a traditional course or by the CB IR route. In the CB IR case, training and post-training hours from the IR(R) count which can reduce the cost of the flying element.

The theory for EIR and full EASA IR is the same.

I emailed a number of schools in the UK, some clearly do not know what they are talking about. Most do. The best response I got was from Fly Command at Coventry who do the flying training and recommend the adjacent CTC for the theory.

I reckon the total cost would be about £6000 for me.

To fly Class A you need an aeroplane with BRNAV 5 capability and two altimeters.

[Johnm]

No brainer do the IR. Your style of flying mirrors mine and I did IMCR and later IR. Since then the IR has become more accessible so that would be the sensible route.

[Level Attitude]

I currently only hold a PPL, with 58 hoursHi djwam,
Considering your limited flying experience, the timing of your 'Gardening Leave' is not that good for your stated suggestions.

CPL = You would need a minimum of 150 total hours to start the course.
IR = You need 50 hours PIC
MEP = You need 70 hours PIC

Instead of taking the IR exams, my suggestion would be to do the ATPL Theory Exams (I know people who have completed these, via Distance Learning, within 6 months, whilst working full time). Provided you obtain an IR within 3 years of passing the exams, they will also remain valid for CPL issue (for 7 years from the last time you held a valid IR).

Whilst doing the Theory Exams obtain an IR(R)/IMC and then Night Rating.

Once you have the exams and, assuming you then have the required PIC time, obtain an IR via the CB-IR route - which will give you credit for the IR(R)/IMC course.

Assuming you achieve the above during, or shortly after, your 'time off' you are then, effectively, future proof and can gain any other flying experience and/or qualifications at your leisure.

Although you may have the time for the above, only you can decide if it is worth the commitment (especially financial).

[stevelup]

You would either have to really enjoy learning, or be a masochist to do the ATPLs now there is a viable alternative.

If you go down the CB IR route, you have a lot more flexibility.

So, do the IR(R) and your Night Rating (you need both).

You must have completed 25hrs post PPL flying before you take your IR(R) test anyway, so add in some other flying.

So, now you're 30 hours post PPL at this point and have an IR(R) and a Night Rating.

Do some IR flying with a mentor now - 10 or 20 hours perhaps. There are several really good IR mentors in the UK, and do some stuff on your own.

Finally, do your 10 hours at an ATO for the CB IR issue.

You need to have 50hrs PIC cross country time logged as well, but you should easily have hit that by now.

It's definitely completely achievable in 6-9 months but will be bloody hard work.

[S-Works]

Doing ATPL exams for an IR is a sledge hammer to crack a nut......

The difference in time and learning retirement is vast and pointless for the OPs mission profile.

[Croqueteer]

:ok:Try competition aerobatics. That will improve you understanding of flight more than anything else. A full IR requires an expensive a/c and a lot of revalidation for probably very little use. Basic IF training is of great value though.

[mary meagher]

Djwam, you have not a lot of flying hours. Even with 9 months to gain qualification, it is NECESSARY to keep in practice to be safe. I got my IR in Texas, in those days a lot cheaper even including getting there. Even though this qualified me - with limitations - to fly a G reg equipped plane in Europe IR, I was far from safe and found it impossible to stay current.

Best way to get your family to Europe is to fly on a well equipped commercial airliner with experienced pilots. Otherwise you are gambling with their lives.

Even with the IR there are plenty of occasions when weather will ruin your plans, and you must have the moral fortitude to disappoint your family/friends.

If you want to try something different that could possibly involve your family actively in flying, check the British Gliding Association website for local clubs. I went for only one trial lesson, back in 1983, and have been flying both gliders and power ever since. And made a lot of very good friends as well.

O yes. Everyone tells you DON'T PAY UP FRONT for flying lessons. Does this tell you something about the motivation or business reliability of this industry?

[stevelup]

Gliding isn't the answer to every single question that gets posted on here you know ;)

You're far more likely to come a cropper in an inadvertent VMC into IMC incident than you are making proper use of a hard earned IR.

[lasseb]

Just to join the choir...do the CB-IR!
This is the one rating that will improve your flying skills dramatically.
CPL is a waste of time and money if you have no intention of going pro.
I did an IR with just a PPL and flew with that for 4 years. Then did FI/ME/CPL/FI-IR later (in that rather weird order)
No question about it, the IR part was the one that gave me most as a pilot. After that CPL was a walk in the park.

But it is another way of flying. Some hate it and others (like me) just love it. So get an IR lesson before you start using time and money.
Also note you don't need a night rating to get a CBIR. but you will be limited to ifr day only.

[thing]

Gliding isn't the answer to every single question that gets posted on here you know ;)


Lol! I loaf around this forum when I have a boring hour at work and often think when reading some commercial pilot posts about combating jet lag on long haul flights or whatever that Mary will pop up and say 'You ought to try gliding...'

[mary meagher]

a lot of them do, you know! (fly gliders, that is...)

always struck me that a commercial pilot has a stressful but boring job. If you are working for some wealthy bloke there is a lot of waiting involved. If you are working for BA, there is a lot of sitting down observing the technology doing the flying/nav/etc. Where has the glamour gone?

It just worries me that the usual objective of a newcomer to flying is to involve and impress his family. You and I know there is no substitute for experience....