A question on the Nimrod operating from Lajes. Cold war

[Javie Guerrero]

I have found references to collaborations with CTG 24.2 (since 1982). An example,in a publication of the US Navy (January - April, 1982) there appears COMAZSECASWGRU (CTG 24.2).

COMAZSECASWGRU = Commander Azores Secctor Antisubmarine Warfare Group

CTG 24.2 that / who units were integrating it?......Planes ..... ships ...... submarine

Thank you

[G-ARZG]

There was Carrier Task Group 24.2 in 1988, 18 ships headed by carrier USS John F Kennedy (CV67)...

[alfred_the_great]

It will be a temporary type organisation: in effect CTG 24.2 will consist of whatever ships/planes/submarines are given to it. I doubt there were any dedicated units to a CTG like that.

[Pontius Navigator]

Following on from the previous posts, the numbered TF and TG were fixed command organizations to which various ships would be attached as required.

For instance ASWGP2 was a UK group that provided ASW support to COMSTKFLTLANT. The flag would be one of the in-commission Invincible class.

Have a look here:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supreme_Allied_Commander_Atlantic

COMSTKFLTLANT would be CTF401, with CTG 401.1 and 401.2 being subordinate.

In your case TG24.2 might be a numbered group solely concerned with that mission or exercise and probably a mix of units that in other circumstances would be in TF401

[Javie Guerrero]

Thank you for your answers.

In the operations Oedipus, these groups could form a part of the operation, or were exclusive of RAF

Following to a VICTOR III the contact one yielded to the VP-24 (detachments Lajes/Rota) could this unit be integrated to the group?

[camelspyyder]

VP units rotated 6 monthly I think from home bases in the continental USA.
There was no full time resident VP at Lajes.

[Sandy Parts]

you should be able to track more info from the VP-24 site (e.g. where they were based at that time). Some VP sqns were detached to Sigonella (Sicily) and some to Keflavik (Iceland). They could then be forward deployed to Lajes. Or, as CS said, they could have popped over from Brunswick (USA). So many sqns and MPA - so not so now...:{

[Javie Guerrero]

Hi Sandy Parts

I have located the information of the V-24 and Operation edipus, but...

The Us Navy was taking part in the Operations Oedipus?

The problem is that in this operation Oedipus I have identified three Nimrod and other one with the CTG 24.2. Can it be the same thing?

[Roland Pulfrew]

Beadwindow alarm! :=

[camelspyyder]

RP. I refrained from typing that earlier because in the past it always just drew attention to what had gone on...

Oh well.

[Javie Guerrero]

Beadwindow? : =: =

Roger, out

BT

NNNN

[betty swallox]

Javie/Mods
Fancy deleting this thread?

[Pontius Navigator]

Javie, what is the source of your information?

[1771 DELETE]

I think you all need to look at previous entries by Jarvie and be very wary of entering into any discussion with this person.

[Pontius Navigator]

Google throws up some names but aside from one at Edinburgh University none seem likely to be this man.

Marcantilism has a proven credibility. Nav is has yet to show the same. As 1771 days, he is trawling so until he produces clear open source evidence, say nowt.

[Pontius Navigator]

I sought a professional opinion on this thread and the answer was a strong smell of fish.

My source has seen nothing of this at Kew and remembers a vague mention of the codeword possibly in a sqn 540.

[Chris Kebab]

We could always shift the conversation to the price of duty free at Lajes during the Cold War - must have been the cheapest Gin and King Edwards on the planet at one point.

[Javie Guerrero]

Some answers for you. First, about myself.

My name is Javier Guerrero and I am Spanish. I am a keen historical researcher and have had articles published in Spain (Defence Department), Argentina and soon in the United Kingdom. My specialities are the 18th century, WWII (in Spain) and the Falklands's war.

http://www.armada.mde.es/ArmadaPortal/ShowBinaryServlet?nodePath=/BEA%20Repository/Desktops/Portal/ArmadaEspannola/Pages/mardigital_revistas/02_revistaGenMarina/02_catalogoRGM/2014/2014_10_es//archivo

http://issuu.com/zonamilitar/docs/revista_zm_n__3_final/1?e=14577503/14479139

and some small collaborations, in different books, for example:

LA TRASTIENDA DE TRAFALGAR. El teniente general José Justo Salcedo eBook: Bubok: Amazon.es: Tienda Kindle

My fishy smell maybe comes from my time in the Spanish Navy. I served for eight years (reaching OR-4) which included during service on Principe de Asturias during the Balkans war, maintaining the Sea Kings, and I also served on Submarines, namely Siroco and Galerna.

From Spain, I can access formerly restricted documents in the National Archives in Kew, or via a FOI request. I have been researching the participation of the Nimrod in the Falklands war, and as part of that research, I have copied these two files:

No 201 Squadron (Falklands Conflict) | The National Archives (http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C13314879)
No 42 Squadron (Falklands Conflict) | The National Archives (http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C13314857)

Both are squadron reports from the time of the conflict and, as PN correctly points out, are 540 documents, which include references to Oedipus, Tapestry, Muleteer, Homespun and Hawktrail, amongst others (let me know if you would prefer me to remove these words from this tread?). They are available to the anyone to either view, or as in my case – get copies made and sent to me.

In the UK archives, there are 526 files from the time of the Falklands war, but nothing about operations in continental Argentina or Chile – the remainder is now declassified under the 30 year rule.

In addition to the above, on the topic of the Nimrod and their operations during the conflict, I also have accessed the following.

AIR 25- 1908 HQ 18 Group RAF
DEFE 58-265 - 201 Sqdn ROP
DEFE 58 -264 Flight 12 may
DEFE 58 -263 Flight 15 may
DEFE 58-252 Nimrod Ops Supplement

[Javie Guerrero]

http://www.armada.mde.es/ArmadaPortal/ShowBinaryServlet?nodePath=/BEA%20Repository/Desktops/Portal/ArmadaEspannola/Pages/mardigital_revistas/02_revistaGenMarina/02_catalogoRGM/2014/2014_10_es//archivo

[Javie Guerrero]

http://issuu.com/zonamilitar/docs/revista_zm_n__3_final/1?e=14577503/14479139

[Pontius Navigator]

Thank you.

Tapestry was oil rig surveillance and Hawktrail was SAR escort for the transAtlantic deployment of a sqn to the USA or Canada - Hawk was probably Barriers.

[Pontius Navigator]

The references quoted have been validated, but without sight of these documents it would be injudicious to comment on the respective classified operations.

[camelspyyder]

I remember Tapestry as mostly vomiting into a bag whilst trying to plot hundreds of radar contacts with the other hand. Thank God MAFFS and DAFFS decided to do the Fishery Protection sorties themselves on the cheap and left us out of it eventually.

[Biggus]

PN,

As camelspyyder has already pointed out, Tapestry was not "oil rig surveillance".

[Javie Guerrero]

Tapestry= Control fishing boats.

Before you continue speaking. I am not interested in the details of the operations and less those of the North Sea.
Neither I look for names of ships, already they are and accompanied of photographies.

What I want to know is what I ask. A Nimrod could collaborate together with a CTG of the Us navy looking for a submarine? Yes or Not.

It depends on the response, already it will look for the information that I want for another way

[Pontius Navigator]

Biggus, of course, I plead anno dominii. We actually did both under Tapestry with hours split 70:30 with MAFF/DAFS picking up the bulk.

Our flt cdr produced a comprehensive guide to recognizing oil rigs and on one wonderful sortie, a GSU ride, we were given an air borne retask from a canned GSU sortie west of UK to an oil rig surv in the North Sea assisting a mine hunter that was escorting a rig being towed through the area.