Air Baltic Crew escorterd from AC by police.

[TowerDog]

An Air Baltic charter flight in OSL, with a 05:45 departure was delayed as both pilots and 2 F/As were taken away by the authorities for suspicion of being over the blood alcohol limit of 0.2.
Ground staff explained the crew had fallen ill.:sad:

http://www.vg.no/nyheter/innenriks/luftfart/fire-i-besetningen-tatt-med-promille-politiet-stoppet-charterfly-paa-gardermoen/a/23502093/

Another head line: (in Norwegian)
Police stopped flight over the limit
http://www.aftenposten.no/nyheter/iriks/Politiet-avverget-promilleflyvning-8118834.html

[fjencl]

Latvian Air Baltic pilot and three crew members were pulled off a Greece-bound passenger plane in Oslo early Saturday after failing a breathalyser test before take-off, Norwegian police said.

"Results of the breathalyser tests confirmed that four of the five crew members ... were above the legal alcohol limit of 0.2 promille," Romerike police prosecutor Edith Ek Sorensen told AFP.

The pilot, co-pilot and two stewardesses -- all from Latvia and employed by Air Baltic -- were taken into police custody and escorted to hospital for blood tests to confirm the breathalyser tests.

Results were expected later.

Sorensen said police had acted after receiving a tipoff from an anonymous caller around 4:00 am (0200 GMT).

The four risk up to two years in prison if found guilty.

Sorensen would not comment on the flight's destination, but Norwegian daily Dagbladet said it was a tour group flight operated by the Norwegian group Startour headed for Chania, Greece, with 109 passengers on board.

[TowerDog]

Looks like the crew is going to jail...

The police was alerted by a hotel employee at 04:00.
Don't drink and fly in Norway, they don't like it and get grumpy:sad:

From today's VG Tabloid:

06:48 DEL Del
- Vil fengsle promillebesetning
- Vi har pågrepet fire besetningsmedlemmer på bakgrunn av mistanke om promille. De sitter i arresten i Lillestrøm, siktet for promille. De vil bli fremstilt for varetektsfengsling mandag, sier jourhavende jurist Charlotte Visdal Benneche i Romerike Politidistrikt til VG.

Det var lørdag morgen at politiet rykket ut til flyet, etter tips fra en hotellansatt der besetningen hadde overnattet. Fire medlemmer blåste rødt.

Besetningen er siktet etter luftfartslovens paragraf 611 (bruk av alkohol i tjeneste, promillegrense 0,2) og 612 (forbud mot inntak av alkohol åtte timer før tjeneste). Tre av besetningsmedlemmene er avhørt, den fjerde sitter i avhør nå, opplyser politiet til VG.

[B739ER]

Wow. 4 crew members in the same set of crew. None of them said "no, wait a minute, we cant do this...". All 4 continued drinking and all 4 were willing to show up for work.
Then it might be a problem with the company culture about saying "no" and reporting.

I crew member under influence is bad enough, imagine both pilots and half the cabin crew. That is a different level of danger to safety for that flight. :ugh:

[Can737]

When your company culture is pay to fly for your pilots, you can't expect much standards.

[G-CPTN]

I guess that that hotel will now lose its airline customers.

[B739ER]

Ahhh, so we have already established that these 4 local Baltic crew members are P2F? Even the cabin?

Anyway, I hope there will be more random tests in the future. It is needed. Also tests for drugs. Only pilots I dont want to fly with are worried for those tests.

[skyship007]

If the drivers are P2F, then the folks in the cabin will be P2S as well, although for only 10% of the 20K plus of the co-pilots.

I got arrested once (Post flight) along with the co-pilot near Newark, BUT I never got detained as the company accountant had enough cash (1K usd) to bail us both out after we signed the papers. Case dismissed 6 months later cos the part time summer Policeman did not contact the FAA first and he had no real evidence that we were guilty of disorderly conduct likely to endanger public safety (It's a general charge that can apply to many different activities).

We were just doing a spot or two of low flying for a film crew, but the chaps on patrol though we must be drunk (Bumpy sea breeze front).
It turned out to be a classic wrongful arrest case, which I knew although the co didn't help things by saying he had not touched a drop of anything in the last 8 hours (It was a 10 hour flight). The ground crew boss did not help either, as once we had shut the engines down, he got on the external emergency PA system and shouted, "Come out with your hands up"!

[AreOut]

it seems drunk pilots problem isn't just russian but more soviet one

[strake]

It seems drunk pilots problem isn't just russian but more soviet one
I think you'll find that the majority of recent cases are western European and North American.

[SMT Member]

The amount of wilful ignorance here seems quite prevalent, as well as all kind of absurd excuses (drinks bought by 'clients' which can't be refused -8H prior departure. WTF?).

Most everybody who's been in this business long enough knows, that sometimes a meal and a few drinks amongst crew members post landing goes a bit south. And with a limit as low as 0.02 it doesn't take much more than a hours sleep to little, or a beer too many, for the alkometer to raise the alarm.

Now the vast, overwhelming, majority knows when and where to call it a day, but it is inevitable that once in a while someone will push it a bit too far and get his or her arse busted. While we are all only humans, that is still a major violation of the trust bestowed in the holder of a commercial aviation license, something we all knew about when we signed up.

So how about we talk openly about this, and help each other as aviation professionals to ensure this doesn't happen to any of us. The camaraderie formed between crew members working, and resting, together is a very special part of this industry. Let's use that to protect ourselves, by helping each other calling it day before the line is crossed.

[captplaystation]

SMT Member, some common sense here at last :ok:

G-CPTN, We can dream Eh ? :rolleyes:

[deptrai]

I was drinking a few beers with a guy a bar in an SE Asian country, when he left he told me he'd be flying to Oz in a few hours. I did my best to convince him to call in sick. I didn't call the police. Still wondering - maybe naively - what else I could have done, calling the chief pilot, crew scheduling, or dispatch? I don't want to be perceived as a troublemaker, this was a senior, well connected local captain, and I was the junior, contract foreigner. A similar situation in (insert another SE asian country here): Senior, local captain snorting cocaine a few hours before duty. The guy who gets to fly all the VIP's. How do you deal with those?

[Intruder]

Senior, local captain snorting cocaine a few hours before duty. The guy who gets to fly all the VIP's. How do you deal with those?
You do what you failed to do both times: Call the police. They have the investigative ability to find out if those pilots are actually scheduled to fly, and to take the appropriate action if they are.

Alternatively, you can call the airline.

[crewmeal]

The days of raucous room parties seem to be long gone. Thank God I retired years ago. I'm sure many on here could recall the 'goings on' at said room parties.

What do crews do on night stops these days? Facebook? Twitter?

[andrasz]

@Intruder,

Obviously you have not lived or worked in said SE Asian countries. Would you do either of your suggested courses of action, the chances are that the police would take YOU for a breathalyzer test just before your next flight, and surprise, surprise the test would fail...

You would have plenty of time alone to ponder why taking this action is perhaps not the best idea.

[MrSnuggles]

When I read the clip from the Norwegian news, it became obvious that this wasn't your usual alcohol control.

The police was called by a hotel employee.

This isn't your average "a pint and some chatter" when the hotel personnel gets worried enough to do something...

I give my respects to the employee who took his/her responsibility for other peoples' lives and safety.

[OldChinaHand]

I would like to thank the hotel staff for their intervention when they felt concerned. Further thank you to the Norwegian authorities for reacting in a timely manner. The Crew members concerned are entitled to due process, and may have a case to answer or not.

[deptrai]

I'd also like to extend thanks to the media for not publishing names and pictures.

[parabellum]

when he left he told me he'd be flying to Oz in a few hours

Having worked in SE Asia I would wonder if, perhaps, you weren't being set up Deptrai to see if you would report it, only to discover he was positioning as a pax? Just a thought.

[Landflap]

Sorry to be damn lazy but what is 0.02 in real terms ? And, if you consume that but lay off for 8 - 12 hrs before reporting for duty, does it still show up - ?

I agree with the Baby-boomers. Best days are well & truly over. We partied until we dropped but were very careful about the 8hr rule & mindful where it was 12. I and many others would declare a "stop drinking time" before we bust open the bar. Never had any issues.

[Volume]

The police was called by a hotel employee.
This isn't your average "a pint and some chatter" when the hotel personnel gets worried enough to do something...Or the hotel employee was unhappy about the tip...

[swish266]

Being professional is also about looking after yourself.
Nothing wrong with the hotel employee.
Same in Singapore - someone says you spat your chewing gum on the side-walk - you will get a fine without a DNA verification...
Poor sods.
:mad:

[Hotel Tango]

We don't know what their readings were. Higher than 0.02 they were technically over the limit, but were they drunk and incapable if only just over?

[His dudeness]

We don't know what their readings were. Higher than 0.02 they were technically over the limit, but were they drunk and incapable if only just over?

A sane person between those internet witch hunters...

[old,not bold]

Just out of curiosity; are you seriously suggesting that whenever someone's alcohol level exceeds the limit, an assessment should be made (by whom?) of whether that person is drunk and incapable?

What degree of "drunk and incapable" would be allowable in your eyes, I wonder?

I'm reminded of the the graduations in Oklahoma State Police reports that I became only too familiar with when our Commando Battery was sent to Fort Sill for 6 months, about a million years ago...

Happy Drunk - Ornery Drunk - Fighting Drunk - Dead Drunk.

Where would you draw the line for aircrew, I ask myself? Would you allow Ornery Drunk for cabin staff, but only Happy Drunk for the Flight Deck?

I do recall many occasions in the bar at the old Gulf Hotel in Bahrain when, at about 0430, one of our more mature DC3 F/Os, with a double-barrelled name I won't repeat, would look around at the assembled crowd of oilmen and others getting in their last drinks while in transit to Abu Dhabi and announce "'Bye all, I'm off to the airport to go to work. If you're coming with me (most were) you need to get your skatesh on", and then he would stagger out. Those days are, I'm happy to so, over.

[Una Due Tfc]

0.2 is less than half the 0.5 limit for driving a car in most of Europe. I believe the 0.5 limit can be easily breached by a man having 2 pints of beer. So one unit of alcohol (roughly) in your system will probably put the average man over the flying limit, guranteed for a woman. The average human body removes one unit per hour from their system, average pint or small glass of wine is 2 units.

[Chesty Morgan]

The limit is the limit. We all know what it is.

There are no excuses to be over it so if you are then you get what you deserve.

Doesn't matter if you're capable, incapable, drunk or not.

I love a drink but I won't touch one within 24 hours of flying and that's about the only reasonable way of ensuring I don't get pinched by the Rozzers.

[J.O.]

I agree with the Baby-boomers. Best days are well & truly over. We partied until we dropped but were very careful about the 8hr rule & mindful where it was 12. I and many others would declare a "stop drinking time" before we bust open the bar. Never had any issues.

Then you probably only got it half right. Every regulation and SOP I've ever seen didn't just specify a time limit, it also required one to not be "under the influence". If no BAC limit was published, that meant you had to be at a reading of zero to be legal. I'd hazard a guess there were a few occasions when you were above that.

[skyship007]

A gas sniffer and retina imager could be connected to the FMS and interconnected to the Cops, then when the crew enters the cockpit an alarm sounds and gives you a chance to do a runner. Some of the younger P2Fers can still outrun both the CAA and the Peelers.

When I was a youngster I used to fly with a hangover sometimes, but after we lost a chap or two in some rather serious incidents it did finally result in my neurons being reconnected to stop me consumating any alcohol if I was flying within the richta hangover scale of 2 days.

[TowerDog]

. Then you probably only got it half right. Every regulation and SOP I've ever seen didn't just specify a time limit,

The FAA had 8 hrs for years. Some companies more than that, 12 hrs comes to mind. Other companies had a total ban. (Which was ignored) :sad:

[Doug E Style]

The pilots can't have been P2F. If they were they would not have been able to afford to get drunk in Norway.

[Evanelpus]

Most everybody who's been in this business long enough knows, that sometimes a meal and a few drinks amongst crew members post landing goes a bit south. And with a limit as low as 0.02 it doesn't take much more than a hours sleep to little, or a beer too many, for the alkometer to raise the alarm.

This is going to upset Mr and Mrs Indignant but here goes.

I'm a non drinker, not a tea totaller but if I never drank another drop of alcohol again, I wouldn't throw myself off Beachy Head.

What I fail to understand is, with the limit so low, why do crews feel the need to have ANY alcohol the night before, be it one, two or a barrel full? So, if you have a meal post landing, why does it have to include booze when you know a) the limit is bonkers low and b) you are flying over 100 people the next day.

Is it the rule these days that a post flight meal has to include alcohol?

[roulishollandais]

In some French buses the driver has to use his recorded breathalbreath yser before departure. Very easy to use , but what if he drinks after departure some mix in a coca-cola bottle ? In case of accident, the driver with some alcohol is always supposed to be the cause of the accident during trial and punished is alcohol or not the cause of the accident. Very dissuasive.

[Dave's brother]

recorded breast analyser
Is that to encourage people to lay off the boobs - er, booze? :}

[AndoniP]

haha I'd like to see one of those!

[Doug E Style]

Sounds like a dream job to me...

[Mr Mac]

Many years ago flying with AF on a Trans Atlantic flight (707, it was as I say sometime ago) I was a little surprised to see a bottle of Red wine go into the flight deck for the crew with their meals. When I mentioned it to cabin crew they appeared quite concerned that I was concerned about it, it was "natural on such a long flight". Thought this practice had gone, but on a trip out to the Far East I was told of similar thing by a young women who had seen the same on an AF Jumbo in the 1980,s, I would assume this practice has now stopped.


Cheers
Mr Mac

[Ancient Mariner]

Latest, according to Norwegian daily "Dagbladet" are the breathalyzer results: CC both 1.0, co-pilot 1.4 and Captain 0.4. All in ‰.
Per

[TowerDog]

Is it the rule these days that a post flight meal has to include alcohol?

Nah, quite a few of us never drink while on the job, especially with early starts like these Air Baltic guys.
With a 3 day night-stop in a good place, yeah we may go to town, but for a 10 or 12 hour stop, why bother...?:sad:

[glenbrook]

Latest, according to Norwegian daily "Dagbladet" are the breathalyzer results: CC both 1.0, co-pilot 1.4 and Captain 0.4. All in ‰.
Per
Properly boozed up so. On the plus side, prison in Norway is less unpleasant than most places.

[matkat]

I was a flying spanner for a well known US cargo operator around 2005 operating out of CDG, AF were doing the catering and was also a bit surprised to see a small bottle of red wine for each crew member ( x 5) their rationale was we could drink it half way over the pond, we all kept them for the hotel, have to say the food was fantastic though.

[TowerDog]

They are sentenced to 2 weeks in a Norwegian Jail and probably won't suffer as the jails over there are known as 5-star facilities.
The Captain stated a stupid mistake ruined his famillies future :((
True enough, could have happened to quite a few of us 20 or 30 years ago.

[deptrai]

not sentenced yet, a court decided to keep them in custody for 2 weeks as they're deemed a flight risk (no pun intended). The former BA F/O caught with 1.5 ‰ in 2003 in Oslo was sentenced to half a year.

[captplaystation]

According to Swedish press (google translated/helmsman = FO )


" Capt Breath sample showed a blood alcohol level of 0.68 percent.
Of the other three crew members who were caught blew the 38-year-old helmsman 1.44 per thousand and two cabin attendants 1.04 and 1.84 per thousand.
Later taken blood samples show that two crew members had been 0.4 per thousand, one of the flight attendants 0.8 and copilot 1.2. Prosecutor Camilla Ek Sørensen stresses news agency NTB that a safety margin is then added, which means that the values ​​may in fact be higher.
Suspended from their jobs
The crew worked for the Latvian airline Air Baltic, which would transport over a hundred charter travelers to Crete. They are Latvian citizens. They are suspended from their jobs and Air Baltic is preparing layoffs because of the harm they caused the company.
Oak Sørensen points out that Norwegian rules pilots and cabin crew when they are in Norway, regardless of the rules in their home country. Under Norwegian rules, flight crews not drink alcohol eight hours before going to work and the alcohol limit is 0.2.
- It exposes a large number of people to considerable danger when four of the five crew on a flight are more or less under the influence of alcohol, she says."

[TowerDog]

. poses a large number of people to considerable danger when four of the five crew on a flight are more or less under the influence of alcohol, she says."

True enough, if something goes horribly wrong and if the crew needs to be sharp to save life's, it is best to be under no influence at all.
On a routine flight, with nothing going haywire, no problem. :=

With that in mind, many more airline crews are flying under the influence of Fatique, as in being dead tired from lack of sleep and on the wrong time-zone and can hardly talk on the radio or read a check list without slurring or repeating
the same thing over and over again to make it sink in.
Perfectly legal and they are flying with the blessings of the airlines, the authorities, the passengers and the cheap tickets.
To fix fatique it would take more crews to share the load and that would make more expensive tickets and not acceptable by the authorities, the airlines or the pax.
Ladies and Gentlemen, that is the truth, been there , done that.:sad:
I am also the King of calling in fatiqued in my airline so as to force crew scheduling to cover the flights with (fresh) reserve crews.
I have flown for a living for 37 years of which the last 27 on long haul across every continent and every ocean.
As bad as the above Baltic Air situation is, there is far worse out there every day, but your cheapo tickets says it is OK..:yuk:

[pineridge]

The number of commercial airline accidents that can be attributed to alcohol are thankfully very few-statistically insignificant-but anyone who shows up for duty with an appreciable amount of alcohol in their system deserve all they get.

On the other hand, according to the NTSB, of all the airline accidents attributed to pilot error, about 20 to 30 percent have fatigue as a factor.

A flight crew`s performance during a 05.00 approach, for example, is roughly equivalent to operating with a blood alcohol level of .08 parts per thousand.

Perhaps the hotel employees should be told.

If you require verification of the above you are going to have to look it up yourselves as I am too tired-there are thousands of pages so good luck.

[de facto]

Doug E Style The pilots can't have been P2F. If they were they would not have been able to afford to get drunk in Norway.


I would have guessed the opposit..if P2F he must have cash to spare:p

[Ambient Sheep]

Latest, according to Norwegian daily "Dagbladet" are the breathalyzer results: CC both 1.0, co-pilot 1.4 and Captain 0.4. All in ‰.
Per

So roughly 2.5 pints, 3.5 pints, and 1 pint up respectively... and that still in the morning. :bored:

[tdracer]

Later taken blood samples show that two crew members had been 0.4 per thousand, one of the flight attendants 0.8 and copilot 1.2. Prosecutor Camilla Ek Sørensen stresses news agency NTB that a safety margin is then added, which means that the values ​​may in fact be higher.

Copilot 1.2 :eek:. While individual tolerance varies, that's definitely inebriated (many people would be falling down drunk). Unforgivable, IMHO.

[M609]

A further court appearance today. The crew has admitted the facts in the case, and the prosecutors hope that the cases will be simple cases of the crew pleading guilty, with only the sentencing handled by the courts.

If any of the cases has to go to full trial, the police will ask for remand until the first possible court date (mid september)

Nrk.no (Google translate) (https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=no&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=no&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nrk.no%2Fostlandssendingen%2Fair-baltic-i-retten-1.12501605&edit-text=&act=url)

[Rick Studder]

https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vg.no%2Fnyheter%2Finnenriks%2Fluftfart%2F air-baltic-styrmann-doemt-til-seks-maaneders-fengsel%2Fa%2F23506444%2F&edit-text=&act=url

[deptrai]

summary: F/O pleaded guilty, got 6 months in jail (same as the former BA F/O in Oslo in 2003). The captain has not pleaded guilty yet, he (or his counsel) says he needs more time to consider the additional charges against him related to his command responsibility. Apparently the stunt involved 2 bottles of whisky. F/O also admitted to drinking beer after that, but only after police presented surveillance videos showing him buying beer at 1.39am. Prosecutors were well prepared. F/A's admit to drinking, but claim they were pressured into drinking...What a clusterf***. Kudos to norwegian media for not publishing names or pictures.

[fox niner]

Air Balt-hic:

Actually I find it quite remarkable that two bottles of whisky + beer will "only" result in these alcohol readings.

[deptrai]

they started around 16.00, the bottles were empty around 20.00. Police suspected they must have been drinking more than "just" 2 bottles, based on blood alcohol levels the morning after, but they could only get the F/O to admit to drinking more after they showed the surveillance video of him. F/A's claimed they have a "slow metabolism".

[M609]

Captain agreed to be remanded in custody until trial and/or guilty plea.
Regarding the FO, bying beer less than 5 hrs before EOBT........:ugh::ugh::ugh:

[FlyingCroc]

I am also very surprised that 2 bottles of Whiskey give these low readings. However it is surprising how many people do not understand how little alcohol is needed to bust the limit. For example 4 pints of beer consumed let's say 10 hours before duty (means stop drinking 8 hours before) will get you busted with .03%. Of course each person is different in the in the absorption and metabolisation of alcohol. A good way to check it is to by an alcohol breathalyzer and check yourself. The results might shock you.

[BusyB]

Totally agree Tower Dog. Far more fatigue than alcohol in flight crews:sad:

[Chesty Morgan]

Why is anyone still turning up fatigued?!

It's as stupid as turning up drunk.

[CaptainProp]

Why is anyone still turning up fatigued?!

It's as stupid as turning up drunk.

:D :D

All they had to do was call in sick. Just make a call, blame it on food poisoning, get some sleep and get on another flight back home. Now they've ruined their careers and possibly their private lives as well....

CP

[David Roberts]

On a lighter note, from an earlier era -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IqEMPYS9XM&list=RD_IqEMPYS9XM#t=13

[diego727]

All they had to do was call in sick. Just make a call, blame it on food poisoning, get some sleep and get on another flight back home. Now they've ruined their careers and possibly their private lives as well....

Or not drink before their flight, maybe?

[Phileas Fogg]

Originally Posted by CaptainProp
All they had to do was call in sick. Just make a call, blame it on food poisoning, get some sleep and get on another flight back home. Now they've ruined their careers and possibly their private lives as well....

Taking in to consideration the disruption caused it might be considered reasonable for the operator to demand doctor's certificates or even send the company or hotel doctor to their rooms!

[CaptainProp]

As usual people read in to posts whatever they want to. It's obviously not ok getting pissed before a duty like they did. However there had been a comment from crew members that it had "gone out of control" or similar and if it did, then all they had to do was call in sick.

CP

[fox niner]

My experience in Norway regarding the police with respect to drunk flying is this:
They are quite trigger happy about this, and without proper verification they will confront a crew, in public, to do a breathalizer test. (In front of the airport building)
After all crew members were found to be completely sober at 5am, the police was asked why they had to undergo this treatment.
It turned out that "someone" in the crew hotel tipped them off. The LATE crew was seen having a drink in the bar at midnight.
So the EARLY outgoing crew was breathalized. To their disappointment they were sober of course.

[Landflap]

Phileas is right. Colleague of mine who pre-empted his flying career with five years in "ops" tells me that in the glorious past,the number of aircrew who "phoned in sick" , particularly cabin crew, on a friday night caused frantic aggravation for whoever was manning the crewing & ops depts. Later, most companies started demanding a "sick note" . One could get away with three days sickness without a note but not any more and certainly not in the companies I served. Skipper Props advocates just phoning in sick and telling porkies. That would have caused just as much aggro for this crew and suspicion would have been aroused anyway.

[akaSylvia]

Skipper Props advocates just phoning in sick and telling porkies. That would have caused just as much aggro for this crew and suspicion would have been aroused anyway.

"just as much aggro"?

They would still have aviation careers, even if a single incident got them fired from Air Baltic, which I doubt.

[Gianni57]

@deptrai
Quote: I'd also like to extend thanks to the media for not publishing names and pictures.

Why that? Not publishing names means that every Baltic pilot/cabin crew is now a suspect. Journalists must publish names because people have the right to know

[deptrai]

Air Baltic crews are not suspects :) You don't need to be Sherlock Holmes to figure out that those who were found guilty are in jail now. There are no other suspects.

Further, stocks and pillory were abolished some time ago. These guys have ruined their careers, they'll spend some time in jail. After their punishment, they should get a chance to become productive members of society again. They're not repeat offenders afaik. Public humiliation serves no purpose, and I'm happy to see otherwise often sensationalist media showing some restraint.

[Gordomac]

Akasylvia : what a cosy little comfy blanket world you live in . Where can I buy some ! Try telling the future employer after phoning in sick & telling porkies...."er, yeah, me, the Fo, two cabin crew were fired for calling in sick. B I G investigation & we were fired."................oh yeah, hit Pprune, papers. media, inhouse jail mags.............................future careers ? Wake up Dad !

[jmmoric]

That's the difference between a boy and a man, the man calls in sick, and take the consequence. It's still better telling a future employer that you'd made a stupid decision and got a bit too much in the evening, but you were man enough to admit it and face it.

Now they'll most likely end up not having a future job in aviation, cause the only right decision they had, they didn't take.... how's that for a pilot?

[akaSylvia]

Akasylvia : what a cosy little comfy blanket world you live in . Where can I buy some ! Try telling the future employer after phoning in sick & telling porkies...."er, yeah, me, the Fo, two cabin crew were fired for calling in sick. B I G investigation & we were fired."................oh yeah, hit Pprune, papers. media, inhouse jail mags.............................future careers ? Wake up Dad !

If that's the way you present yourself in an interview, no wonder you are worried about job security.

I'll try to be clearer:

Pulling a sicky, especially just the once because you messed up, does not get people banned from aviation careers and put into jail.

Flying a plane drunk, on the other hand...

[14SIX785]

Towerdog -

Looks like the crew is going to jail...

The police was alerted by a hotel employee at 04:00.
Don't drink and fly in Norway, they don't like it and get grumpy
____________________________________________________________ ____
Your comment appears to show support for this wayward bunch - seems like you approve of drinking prior to flying in any country where you may get away with it. I hope I've misread you :=

[Heathrow Harry]

and don't drink and drive in Norway - IIRC just about any amount of beer puts you over the limit

they also are keen on road blocks for commuters in the morning

Your licence is removed immediately until you appear in court

Penalties vary depending on the blood alcohol level.

They range from a fine for being just over the limit (above 0.2% and up to 0.4%).

A driver detected with 0.8% BAC (currently still legal in the UK) can expect to pay a fine of at least 10,000kroner (1,250 euros), lose his/her licence for 18 to 20 months and may be sent to prison for up to three weeks.

[harrryw]

I had to laugh. The banner add for this topic is from airBaltic Training regarding 737 Ratings.
Their catch phrase: "Do it with an Airline."

[DX Wombat]

They would still have aviation careers, Which could possibly mean they might one day fly in a drunken state with dreadful consequences.

[johnnyDB]

one rotten apple, or a liquor chocolate would put anyone over that lousy limit. :suspect:

[peekay4]

On a breathalyzer right after consumption maybe.

But one will not register 1.4 on a blood test by eating a few liquor chocolates! That's approximately 5 pints of beer assuming a 200 lbs. male.

[Heathrow Harry]

Johnny

one advantage of the Norwegain rules are that you don't even think of having ANY alcohol if you think you are driving/flying the next day - it's a bit extreme (like stealing in Saudi) but it is clear

Of course out in the sticks there are always people who drink and drive but there is no way round it if you're stopped...........................

[TowerDog]

.
one advantage of the Norwegain rules are that you don't even think of having ANY alcohol if you think you are driving/flying the next day - it's a bit extreme (like stealing in Saudi) but it is clear


Yeah, crystal clear rules, I know: Born and raised there before I relocated to the Colonies.
Incidentally Norway also have the lowest traffic fatalities of any country, (according to Google anyways) 2,9 fatalities per 100,000, one of the highest is The Dominican Republic with over 40. The U.S. Is around 11, Sweden 3, etc.
As for flying under the influence, few if any accidents due to Alchohol in commercial aviation anywhere in the world. Not a big, or a dangerous problem.
Fatique however is the white elpahant in the room.
Sometimes we are so exhausted and tired after long flights and much longer duty days that we can hardly spell our names and keep slurring on the radio.
Granted, that was usually working for cargo carriers working under some supplemental rules of the FARs. (Federal Aviation Regulation)
Last time I did that was in 2007. 30 hour Duty Days with no rest
Perfectly legal by the graveyard agency called the FAA.
Limited to 12 hours flight time with 3 cockpit crews, but if the last leg was an empty ferry, no limits, keep on flying boys until you pass out.
For those scenarios it was up to the pilots to say stop, and we did many times, yet it was perfectly legal to continue another 10 hours or whatever you were scheduled for.
A call from the boss could be expected though, money before safety...:sad:

[M609]

Captain got 10 months in prison (Google translate) (https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=no&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=no&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nrk.no%2Fostlandssendingen%2Fair-baltic-kaptein-domt-til-10-maneders-fengsel-1.12564987&edit-text=&act=url)

[nonsense]

"The captain had a blood alcohol of 0.54 and Monday afternoon fell verdict against him in Upper Romerike District Court."
"Other pilot, who had 1.35 parts per thousand, was sentenced to six months in prison." (https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=no&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=no&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nrk.no%2Fostlandssendingen%2Fair-baltic-kaptein-domt-til-10-maneders-fengsel-1.12564987&edit-text=&act=url)

There appears to be a little confusion within this thread about blood alcohol concentration figures. In Scandinavia it is normal to quote figures "per mille" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Per_mille), not "per cent", eg: in parts per thousand rather than parts per hundred.

There is also a small difference because in most places that use %, such as Australia, we measure blood alcohol by mass of alcohol per volume blood, while in Scandinavia they measure blood alcohol by mass of alcohol per mass of blood (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_alcohol_content#Units_of_measurement).

Since blood has a relative density of about 1.06 (slightly denser than water), this makes an Australian 0.05% m/v driving limit equal to a Swedish 0.47 0/00 m/m.


0.54% blood alcohol is likely though not certain (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_alcohol_content#Effects_by_blood_alcohol_content) to be fatal (http://www.essentialkids.com.au/health/latest-health-news/us-teen-dies-after-parents-teach-him-a-fatal-lesson-20150918-gjphcy.html).
0.54 per mille is almost 0.06%, and is just sufficienty over the legal limit to drive a car in my part of the world to thoroughly spoil your day, and well under the 0.08% limit to drive a car still in force in many places.

1.35 per mille, 1.35 parts per thousand or about 0.014% is well and truly sozzled, whereas 1.35% would be well and truly dead.

[Bus Junkie]

Hahaha Vietnam Airlines? I've heard lots of stories from the local FOs we borrow, and the expat Captains I imbibe with.

I was drinking a few beers with a guy a bar in an SE Asian country, when he left he told me he'd be flying to Oz in a few hours. I did my best to convince him to call in sick. I didn't call the police. Still wondering - maybe naively - what else I could have done, calling the chief pilot, crew scheduling, or dispatch? I don't want to be perceived as a troublemaker, this was a senior, well connected local captain, and I was the junior, contract foreigner. A similar situation in (insert another SE asian country here): Senior, local captain snorting cocaine a few hours before duty. The guy who gets to fly all the VIP's. How do you deal with those?

[aox]

There appears to be a little confusion within this thread about blood alcohol concentration figures. In Scandinavia it is normal to quote figures "per mille", not "per cent", eg: in parts per thousand rather than parts per hundred.

Thanks for pointing this out. I'd been looking at some numbers much higher than expected, wondering whether typing mistakes were creeping in.

[Ambient Sheep]

0.54 per mille is almost 0.06%, and is just sufficienty over the legal limit to drive a car in my part of the world to thoroughly spoil your day, and well under the 0.08% limit to drive a car still in force in many places.

1.35 per mille, 1.35 parts per thousand or about 0.014% is well and truly sozzled, whereas 1.35% would be well and truly dead.

Agree with what you say, except shouldn't that last 0.014% be 0.14%? Just trying to avoid further confusion...

[captplaystation]

airBaltic have done everything they can to prevent this ever being an issue going forward.

Every crew reporting for every duty at home base, or nightstopping, must now blow before signing on, 100% testing.


Rather sadly,the Capt concerned was not only an excellent and respected trainer in the top few of company seniority, but was widely known to be effectively teetotal.

Colleagues are flabbergasted that someone so diligent, who was always the first to leave the party whilst on wet leases abroad, has ended up in this situation.

[Bueno Hombre]

Yes, as a moderate drinker . I reckon I could do good in there. Please pm me applicatiion procedure.

[Bueno Hombre]

These tests are not always accurate and may be influenced by jealousy. Watch out!

[Capt. Inop]

These tests are not always accurate and may be influenced by jealousy. Watch out!

In Norway these tests are influenced by blood alcohol, and very accurate.

[Herod]

During my last few years in the business, I found that the only way to play safe was to only drink on the first evening of days off, and the subsequent day. Nothing on the day before flying, which meant a good 30 hours bottle-to-throttle, and nothing during the working week. A pain in the a*se, but the alternative was the chance of losing my job. A long way from when I started in the military many years ago, when it was prop up the bar till closing time, breakfast at 7, brief at 8, airborne by 9. Things have changed.

[deefer dog]

During my last few years in the business, I found that the only way to play safe was to only drink on the first evening of days off, and the subsequent day

Herod, those days are long since gone! There is no such thing as "subsequent day off" as every trip now is minimum rest. No more 5 days here, then there, then somewhere else as in days that you and I probably recall (me from BCAL). Things have changed a lot. So too has the quality in every respect. Sad but true.

[TowerDog]

. Herod, those days are long since gone!

True, but sometimes on Long Haul we get 3-4 days off.

[Herod]

I was talking more about short-haul. Surely there is still a requirement for a two-day break every 14, which must include 2 "local nights". If that's gone as well, I'm even more happy to be retired.